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Remarks by President Bush at Signing of USA Patriot Act of 2001
US Newswire ^ | 10/26/01 | George W. Bush

Posted on 10/26/2001 9:17:04 AM PDT by Native American Female Vet

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To: alien2
"#28 huh? "
I asked you first.

If you don't have a reason that subjects should have the right to evade warrants by changing their location it won't surprise me.
But after your long rant in reply #23, I was hoping you would.

41 posted on 10/26/2001 11:37:18 AM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Native American Female Vet
Of course, when this law fails to prevent another attack--and it will fail--they'll be back, saying the same damn thing: "we need more 'tools'". And the sheeple--including all too many FReepers--will swallow that one too.
42 posted on 10/26/2001 11:38:09 AM PDT by alpowolf
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To: philman_36
Someone must have "criminal intent" to be convicted of a "crime".

Only where the crime involves a specific or general intent, such as malicious destruction of property or murder. There are crimes where no intent need be proved to sustain a conviction.

In this law one must be found to have committed one of the enumerated federal crimes with the intent described in the first section.

43 posted on 10/26/2001 11:39:54 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: amundsen
"particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "
Yes, the unified warrant is obviously Constitutional.

I believe (not a lawyer) that federal warrants are issued for federal districts, so I don't see how a States Rights issue can be raised.

44 posted on 10/26/2001 11:42:21 AM PDT by mrsmith
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Native American Female Vet
Several links in article...
Congress Clamps Down On Carnivore Requires reports on use of Internet-snooper system (No date given)

Recognizing its potential threat to individual privacy, Congress is in the process of requiring the FBI to report exactly how and when Carnivore, the controversial Internet-snooper system, is being used.

Officially named DCS 1000, Carnivore is the FBI's high tech hardware and software system capable of tapping directly into and recording terabytes of Internet traffic.

To install a Carnivore device, the FBI must first obtain warrants or court orders naming the targets of the investigation. Once installed in a cooperating Internet service provider's (ISP) facility, Carnivore collects all internet traffic. This mass of collected data is then "filtered" for evidence tied to the suspects named in the warrant.

According to the FBI, Carnivore is a "diagnostic tool" providing the Agency with "a 'surgical' ability to intercept and collect the communications which are the subject of the lawful order while ignoring those communications which they are not authorized to intercept."

The FBI further contends that its use of Carnivore as being, "subject to intense oversight from internal FBI controls, the U. S. Department of Justice (both at a Headquarters level and at a U.S. Attorney's Office level), and by the Court." [From: FBI's Carnivore - Diagnostic Tool]

Carnivore's threat to personal privacy and civil liberty, say its critics, is the fact that it collects information about every person -- not just the suspects -- accessing the Internet through the host ISP's connection.

Carnivore can collect copies of every email sent through the ISP's system, track the Web travels of every user logged on, and discover the IP addresses of all users, suspects or not.

The threat to individual privacy from the potential misuse of such a device is of great concern to many people, including the House and Senate Judiciary Committees of the U.S. Congress.

As a result of Judiciary hearings, Congress is acting to require the FBI to provide them with detailed reports on the use of Carnivore, or similar devices. Included as part of the 21st Century Department of Justice Appropriations Authorization Act are the following orders to the FBI:

SEC. 306. REPORT ON DCS 1000 (`CARNIVORE').
Not later than 30 days after the end of fiscal years 2001 and 2002, the Attorney General and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall provide to the Judiciary Committees of the House of Representatives and Senate a report detailing--
(1) the number of times DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device) was used for surveillance during the preceding fiscal year;
(2) the Department of Justice official or officials who approved each use of DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device);
(3) the criteria used by the Department of Justice officials to review requests to use DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device);
(4) a complete description of the process used to submit, review, and approve requests to use DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device);
(5) the specific statutory authority relied on to use DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device);
(6) the court that authorized each use of DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device);
(7) the number of orders, warrants, or subpoenas applied for, to authorize the use of DCS 1000 (or any similar system or device);
(8) the fact that the order, warrant, or subpoena was granted as applied for, was modified, or was denied;
(9) the offense specified in the order, warrant, subpoena, or application;
(10) the nature of the facilities from which, or the place where the contents of, electronic communications were to be disclosed; and
(11) any information gathered or accessed that was not authorized by the court to be gathered or accessed.

The 21st Century Department of Justice Appropriations Authorization Act, including the Carnivore reporting requirements, has strong bipartisan support in Congress. The House approved the bill by a simple voice vote on July 23, and little or no opposition is anticipated in the Senate.

Included as part of the same bill, is a measure creating a special deputy inspector general assigned to provide special oversight of all programs and operations of the FBI through September 2004. [See: House Slaps Special Oversight on FBI]


So much for Congressional concerns about threats to individual privacy.

46 posted on 10/26/2001 11:46:18 AM PDT by philman_36
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Pipe Dog
"We were able to eliminate or severely limit the most egregious violations of Americans' civil liberties that were contained in the original proposal," Barr said after the vote."

Anyone know what that was?

"At a Cato Institute event Tuesday afternoon, Barr had taken a far more critical approach: "The philosophy underlying the legislation remains problematic.... There are a number of troubling provisions in this latest draft."

OK..so you take out 'the most egregious violations of Americans' civil liberties' and do nothing about the other stuff and that changes the 'philosophy of legislation?

"The worries expressed by some groups that are members of the new In Defense of Freedom coalition include: the ease with which police could eavesdrop on the Internet, expanded information-sharing between police, the CIA and similar agencies, and potentially intrusive surveillance of users by their Internet providers."

This makes me ask myself: Why have I sat for hours reading, emailing, calling, sending letters and protesting to stop this?

48 posted on 10/26/2001 11:51:08 AM PDT by Native American Female Vet
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To: Native American Female Vet
I sure hope the Supremes do the job they are suppose to. It just blows my mind people think this is a good thing. Our founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves today.

Excuse me.....but I do not believe our founding fathers ever faced such a horrific threat which we are currenly facing. They were fighting for liberties which we did not have back then. Now we are fighting for our very lives and existance as a nation. I think John Adams and the gang would understand that certain things need to change for the good of our national security. Calm down, and don't worry so much about our civil liberties....and start worrying about what is really important right now. Everything else will work itself out in the end.
49 posted on 10/26/2001 11:51:55 AM PDT by GinaL
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: Native American Female Vet
If the link numbers are any indication the date of the article in my post 46 was 08/06/01.
Funny how only a couple of months change so many things.
51 posted on 10/26/2001 11:54:47 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: alien2
"the ability of the government to define terrorism "

This is one of the problems I have with the bill, and I think the loose definition of terrorism- and especially of abetting terrorism-will have to be further refined in the Supreme Court. I'm also bothered by abuse of secret warrants, the 7 day limit on holding illegal immigrants, and the lack of a reasonable formula for using foreign sources of info.
(I'm most bothered by the lack of a version of the bill to examine!)

But the unified warrant, and most parts of the law, seems a long overdue reform.

52 posted on 10/26/2001 12:04:31 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Converse Lee
Remember, friends, who did this to us when it finally starts to dawn on everyone what has just happened to our freedom. Remember that it was Republicans who shoved this rubber ball down the American Eagle's throat!

UH....I think the passage of this bill was OVERWHELMING and if he decided to VETO it, the bill would have passed anyway. This was a bipartisan effort to decimate our civil rights.

53 posted on 10/26/2001 12:04:40 PM PDT by PISANO
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To: philman_36
Yes, it is amazing. I will save money and lots of time now that I dont have to fight this stuff anymore.
54 posted on 10/26/2001 12:07:21 PM PDT by Native American Female Vet
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To: Native American Female Vet
He forgot to thank the duplicitous genius who named this the patriot act.
55 posted on 10/26/2001 12:07:38 PM PDT by Twodees
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To: Sunshine55
You are so right. Those prayers we offered up during Gore's attempt to steal the election were not in vain!
56 posted on 10/26/2001 12:08:01 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty
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Comment #57 Removed by Moderator

To: Twodees
He forgot to thank the duplicitous genius who named this the patriot act.

You got that right. Talk about adding insult to slavery.

58 posted on 10/26/2001 12:16:47 PM PDT by another1
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To: GinaL
Right, GinaL, we'll be living in chains, but at least we'll be alive.
59 posted on 10/26/2001 12:24:07 PM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator


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