Posted on 10/27/2001 9:24:19 AM PDT by Clive
By all means. I'd also like the cigar clipper, a butane lighter and a cork screw.
Call me a domestic guerrilla.
Correct. Snipers have cause to be concerned about dust and flash signatures, which a muzzle brake can help to alleviate and still allow sub MOA shooting depending on the rig in question. The same goes for glint from the objective on any optics you may have. If you don't invest in an Anti Reflective Device, you're asking for trouble, depending on the mission, although ARD devices have a light loss factor involved and that also needs to be considered, depending on mission.
Dope, Dial, Dump!
My understanding that the only difference between the M16A1 and C7 is the accessorization. The rifle itself is the same, but the Canadians like different doodads attached to it.
Hell a Target .22 which is most assuredly subsonic at the muzzle will put a hole in a person at 400 yards. Also as he has been on the high power range, the standard 168 Federal load starts at 2600 ft/s. It is subsonic at about 8-900 yards as I remember and it will definitely kill at 1200 yards.
Gentech Suppressors
The M4-96D was designed to meet specific military requirements for a compact, high efficiency, quickly detachable suppressor for the 5.56mm Colt M4A1 carbine. In addition to the requirements that the suppressor be able to quickly attach securely to the weapon's flash hider without tools, it was necessary that the system remain compatible with all normal military accessories for this weapon. The M4-96D suppressor meets and exceeds these requirements in a physically small package.
The M4-96D, utilizing a totally new concept in baffle design, was computer optimized and is manufactured on the latest state-of-the-art CNC manufacturing centers from space age materials. It provides sound reduction in excess of 32 dB in a physically compact package. Additionally, there is no degradation of weapon accuracy. Suppressor life is known to exceed 15,000 rounds.
Impactguns Subsonic Ammo
Many of the pistol cartridges are subsonic, including .45ACP and .380ACP. Some 9mm ammo is subsonic and is so designed by the manufacturer. In 9mm, subsonic ammo has bullet weight of 147 grain and heavier, although not all 147g ammo will stay subsonic in a machine gun or carbine.
For .22 rimfire, several manufacturers produce specific ammo for silencers. Some of the higher quality standard velocity target ammo may be subsonic. Note- "High Velocity" .22 ammo is NOT subsonic. It will function just fine in your suppressed pistol or rifle, but may exhibit much higher noise levels.
There is high demand for subsonic rifle ammo, however, there are very few companies who can produce this ammo. Most we have tried have unstable flight characteristics. Most manufacturers of silencers will NOT warranty the use of centerfire ammo in their cans. The ONLY subsonic centerfire which will be warranted is manufactured by Engel Ballistic Research, and we carry it in both .223 and .308 calibers.
Dave, never too old to learn I guess.
Most if not all of my 20 years of reloading and "unloading" HP rifle ammo was spent with hunting and target loads trying to get fast and flat to mimized wind effect, simplify targeting, and providing maximum energy at impact. (varies by square of velocity) You have educated me. 22LR "High Velocity" is in fact supersonic. Most of the 22LR target loads I have had experience with (and not a lot of that) have been subsonic and I've not used them except to familiarize my kids with long gun function and target practice.
Your .308 muzzle velocity data seems to best match the old 30-30 round in my Speer #12 manual but I shoot 25-06 and .308 (several cartridges) regularly and never load down that low. Most of the .308 caliber configurations consistently show muzzle velocities at or above 3100 fps, at least in my version of the Speer manual. I guess we could quibble about what is the normal load for a .308 round and it would surely depend somewhat on what cartridge is used but I'll continue to prefer to believe that the prevalent MV for that bullet is 3000 fps or better. Pay your money and take your pick, in any case it's pretty clear they are all pretty much supersonic at least to mach 2. The subsonic rounds indeed exist (very few). From what I am told they are used mostly by the LE boys especially SWAT teams (not too many of those guys in my gun club). Indeed a silencer can be effectively used with that round to mask the report and being subsonic they can be effectively quietened. They are nominally effective in the 30-100 yd range and that close I too would want to be quiet and minimize muzzle flash also.
I am lead to believe however that the preferred sniper rifle/ammo com is in the Rem700/short cartridge .308 neighborhood, loaded for maximum velocity at sub MOA (1/4MOA). Everything depends but apparently most snipers would like to be accurate but operate at a distance that provides maximum concealment. (roughly 200-300 yds.) I could be mis-informed but the guys I've talked to that claim some experience in this segment of the shooting arts tell me at that range and velocity they worry more about muzzle flash and not muzzle report.
Regarding the 45 Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge you referenced. A typical pistol ballistic run is shown above (hits the ground around 95 yds). I can indeed get that round to fly to a little beyond 370 yds by aiming at the sky but the residual energy is not really in the effective kill range at ground impact (below 200 ftlbs I think, again personal preference so opinions can differ.) I presume if you chambered this cartridge in a long pistol or short rifle barrel it might develop a slightly higher muzzle velocity (maybe even a little above mach1) and carry somewhat farther but I doubt very much farther. Also since the powder charge is nominal in this short cartridge firing it in a long barrel might create a substantial problem with a stuck cartridge. Dunno and I ain't gonna try it. I don't ever like to be on the target end of the ballistic curve but I can tell you if you were aiming at me at 400 yds with a 45 ACP I would feel resonably comfortable all things considered, compared to my supersonic .308 at that range even given the .308 drop at 400 yds. (yes I know a MI 30-06 can hit(kill) the target at 1000 yds)
I have no interest in an ego duel with you and will admit I have had no experience with subsonic machinegun (?) or subsonic sniper rounds so I'll save my money. However I'll continue to believe that while subsonic rifles, cartridges, and suppressors exist, they are not the preferred sniper configuration. Granted everything has a purpose and where tactical considerations call for this combination it would be appropriate. I'm also informed that some concealed close in work has a need to suppress an automatic weapon (subsonic) and a suppressor is useful on a "machine"gun for this purpose but this is not my definition of a sniper situation. Snipers prefer a single shot answer in almost every situation. IMHO anyway.
I'd like to exchange some .308 ballistics since I've developed some interesting parabolas at subsonic speeds but I can't figure out how the heck to attach the JPEGs to this post and I'm pretty much done with the discussion anyway. If I ever get an itch for an automatic weapon (I have at times wanted Corvettes and AR15s) I'll look you up.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.