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Archbshp Sheen's Prophetic warning of 50 years ago: Mary and the Moslems; The Significance of Fatima
The Mindzenty Report, published by the Cardinal Mindzenty Foundation ^ | 11/1/01 | Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Posted on 11/02/2001 5:42:58 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

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1 posted on 11/02/2001 5:42:58 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: *Catholic_list; patent
As usual, Archbishop Sheen displays a keen insight that few of his contemporaries could match. Prophetic.
2 posted on 11/02/2001 5:45:20 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Excellent piece.

America sorely needs a prelate of his spirituality and stature today.

3 posted on 11/02/2001 5:53:38 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: father_elijah; Antoninus; aposiopetic; Salvation; ELS; nina0113; Steve0113; el_chupacabra...
Bumping. Let me know if you want on or off the list. Click my screen name for a description.

Thanks for posting this proud2bRC, I wanted too but its going to be a busy day.

patent

4 posted on 11/02/2001 5:59:04 AM PST by patent
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To: proud2bRC
bttt
5 posted on 11/02/2001 5:59:39 AM PST by carpio
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To: proud2bRC
For those who want to donate money in response to 9/11 and the ongoing threat to our civilization by mohammedism, supporting Christian missionaries is an excellent idea.
6 posted on 11/02/2001 6:04:16 AM PST by Atticus
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To: carpio
This ad features Rathbone hawking Fatima Turkish cigarettes. Fatima cigarettes sponsored the radio show "Tales of Fatima," which aired in 1949 and starred Basil Rathbone. On the ad: "Basil Rathbone says: May I tell you why you'll like smoking the NEW Fatima? The name Fatima has stood for the Best in Cigarette Quality for 30 years. And now, I say the new Fatima is the best of long cigarettes. It's the long cigarette that I know you'll enjoy as much as I do. It's MY cigarette. Basil Rathbone".

Fatima was also the name of Mohammed's daughter. (As well as a brand of fags.)

7 posted on 11/02/2001 6:04:38 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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To: proud2bRC
"........ the daughter of Mohammed himself.

But after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.

In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, I surpass all the women, except Mary."

And what would Mohammed have to say about the treatment of his daughter in the current scheme of things in the Moslem world....

8 posted on 11/02/2001 6:08:32 AM PST by prognostigaator
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To: proud2bRC
Great post, thank you!
9 posted on 11/02/2001 6:15:02 AM PST by lodwick
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To: proud2bRC
Fatima happens to be my favorite Marian apparition. But I had no idea that Fatima was Mohammed's daughter's name. Wow.

Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm itself as a great anti-Christian world power.

Archbishop Sheen was a very wise man.

10 posted on 11/02/2001 6:18:31 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: proud2bRC
Such insight. But Mary won't have anything to do with it, IMHO. The Holy Spirit will be coming through and it will be Christ they see, not Mary. Praise God.
11 posted on 11/02/2001 6:20:01 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: proud2bRC; patent; Aquinasfan
Wow.

Thank you for posting this, and for the bump. I didn't know about the Muslim significance of Fatima.

As long as a heresy allows the heretic to better contemplate God from his unique vantage point, the heresy will persist. We do notice conversion of Muslims, not to Christianity, but to secularism. This secularization is seen, not incorrectly, by some Muslim thinkers as westernization, and we have this war on the Western civilization as a result. Why secularism brings a Muslim closer to God? Because it reminds him of the loving and forgiving nature of God, that smiles at our petty philistinism. This aspect of God is nearly completely hidden from view in Islam.

12 posted on 11/02/2001 6:23:56 AM PST by annalex
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To: Marysecretary
But Mary won't have anything to do with it, IMHO.

Ultimately, everything good comes from God. Even our cooperation with God's grace is a grace. That is constant Church teaching. But in a more proximate sense, and to use everyday language, we say that "Mary always leads us to Christ."

If you feel more comfortable with "The Holy Spirit, operating through Mary, leads us to Christ," that's perfectly OK. In fact, it is Catholic teaching.

13 posted on 11/02/2001 6:27:46 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: patent
Let me know if you want on or off the list.

Please add me to the list, thanks.

14 posted on 11/02/2001 6:33:19 AM PST by pbear8
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To: proud2bRC
"May Saint John Baptist protect Islam and all the people of Jordan" - John Paul II

"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has taken public exception to a statement by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who caused an uproar in Italy by saying that Western culture is superior to Islam. 'One cannot speak of the superiority of one culture over another, because history has shown that a society can change from one age to another,' the cardinal remarked, speaking to the Italian daily La Repubblica.

15 posted on 11/02/2001 6:34:04 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: annalex
This aspect of God is nearly completely hidden from view in Islam.

I hope that the internet will open Islamic society to Christian teaching, even classical philosophy. I know someone who corresponds with Muslims in north Africa over the internet. He told me that they frequently say things like, "We don't have to believe these things?" The idea of freely accepting or rejecting specific religious doctrines is a strange idea to them.

Another obstacle to Muslim conversions is psychological. Because the Koran contains contradictory passages, and because the Koran is treated as the literal word of God, Koranic teachings must be accepted on blind faith, and in contradiction to natural reason. So Muslims must also overcome a lifetime practice of sublimating contradictions.

16 posted on 11/02/2001 6:35:40 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: patent
In theory, I agree with Archbishop Sheen that it should be at least possible to lead Moslems out of their wicked heresy by emphasising the singular importance of Our Lady even in the Koran.

But, the position of a Christian missionary in an Islamic country is very perilous -- almost as dangerous as it was to be a Jesuit in Elizabethan England. Unless the radical governments, such as Saudi Arabia's, are compelled to renounce Sharia, the prospect of conversion through preaching and disputation seems very remote.

There will never be any widespread conversion from Islam to Christianity for as long as the government can impose a death sentence for "apostasy." And, in the case of Saudi Arabia, that self-same government has the unquestioning support of the U.S. There is something brutally consistent that the U.S., where it is illegal to pray on public property, supports a regime that imposes a death penalty for conversion to Christianity.

And bin Laden calls us "Crusaders." It is to laugh.

17 posted on 11/02/2001 6:38:04 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: proud2bRC
List, List? How do I get ON the list?
18 posted on 11/02/2001 6:45:55 AM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton
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To: proud2bRC
Powerful P E A C E! We have much to look forward to.

In the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her, to her divine Son.

http://www.rosary.com
19 posted on 11/02/2001 6:51:46 AM PST by janee
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To: Aquinasfan
“Today we no longer understand ecumenism in the sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being ‘catholics.’ This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II.” - Cardinal Walter Kasper, Head of Pontifical Council for Christian Unity
20 posted on 11/02/2001 6:53:37 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: proud2bRC
Our Lady of Fatima Bump!!
21 posted on 11/02/2001 6:55:51 AM PST by goodform
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To: Aquinasfan
contradiction to natural reason.

Funny, I had a conversation on FR just yesterday with a Lutheran minister, and he pointed out that the flaw in Calvinism is its reliance on humanly limited reason in building the doctrine of double predestination.

I agree on your main point. That is why I think that we won't see conversions to Christianity in any great numbers, but we do see acceptance of Western practices that are a consequence of Christianity: free thinking, tolerance of diversity, bourgeois work ethic, tolerance of small vice.

22 posted on 11/02/2001 7:04:39 AM PST by annalex
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To: patent
I'd like to be on that list, if you wouldn't mind.

Vivat Jesus!

23 posted on 11/02/2001 7:06:04 AM PST by Mr. Thorne
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
But, the position of a Christian missionary in an Islamic country is very perilous -- almost as dangerous as it was to be a Jesuit in Elizabethan England. Unless the radical governments, such as Saudi Arabia's, are compelled to renounce Sharia, the prospect of conversion through preaching and disputation seems very remote.
The position of a Christian missionary has almost always been very perilous. It isn’t just Elizabethan England or Islamic countries. Many other lands that are now Christian fought the missionaries tooth and nail, whether shrinking their heads or merely cutting them off.
There is something brutally consistent that the U.S., where it is illegal to pray on public property, supports a regime that imposes a death penalty for conversion to Christianity.
Yes, and it doesn’t bode well for the alleged superiority of Western Civ.

patent  +AMDG

24 posted on 11/02/2001 7:06:34 AM PST by patent
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To: Bellarmine
“Today we no longer understand ecumenism in the sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being ‘catholics.’ This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II.” - Cardinal Walter Kasper, Head of Pontifical Council for Christian Unity
I would love to see the good Cardinal (or you, but I doubt you agree with him) prove that statement. I don’t recall any such thing in V2, though I have quite clearly seen it in the so-called “spirit of V2.”

patent  +AMDG

25 posted on 11/02/2001 7:08:56 AM PST by patent
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To: proud2bRC
I watched him as a kid.

I loved the 'angles' who erased his blackboard for him.

26 posted on 11/02/2001 7:11:46 AM PST by Jethro Tull
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
But, the position of a Christian missionary in an Islamic country is very perilous . . . Unless the radical governments, such as Saudi Arabia's, are compelled to renounce Sharia, the prospect of conversion through preaching and disputation seems very remote. . . . There will never be any widespread conversion from Islam to Christianity for as long as the government can impose a death sentence for "apostasy."

At present, Christian missionary work seems impossible in countries such as Saudi Arabia. Yet with God nothing is impossible: perhaps He will open those countries to missionaries some day.

In the meantime, there are millions of Muslims living in Europe and North America. Why not send missionaries to them?

27 posted on 11/02/2001 7:12:35 AM PST by Logophile
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To: proud2bRC
Great article! I had never made the Fatima connection between Our Lady and Islam.
28 posted on 11/02/2001 7:13:55 AM PST by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Bellarmine
Probably taken out of context. Specifically, ecumenism, or "ecumenical dialogue" is first to simply communicate and second, to establish a common ground as a basis for communication. Truth can never be compromised.

The high point of the ecumenical movement thus far has been the Joint Declaration on Justification signed by the Catholic Church and one of the largest Lutheran bodies.

The ultimate goal of the ecumenical movement is the re-unification of Christendom or the re-unification of the Catholic Church, the Church which Christ founded, the "pillar and foundation of truth," and the church which we should go to to settle disputes, as Christ instructed us.

29 posted on 11/02/2001 7:16:09 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: patent
ON Please.....
30 posted on 11/02/2001 7:17:14 AM PST by Merovingian
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To: patent; proud2bRC
Thanks for the ping. As an Iranian woman pointed out to an American journalist, Mary wore hajeb. An excellent contribution, proud2bRC.
31 posted on 11/02/2001 7:18:21 AM PST by firebrand
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To: firebrand
hejab
32 posted on 11/02/2001 7:19:02 AM PST by firebrand
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To: annalex
I agree with your main point.

he pointed out that the flaw in Calvinism is its reliance on humanly limited reason in building the doctrine of double predestination.

I would think the opposite would be the case. I think the unreasonableness of the doctrine explains its unpopularity. Unaided reason tells us that God is Good. Therefore, it would be impossible for Him to will damnation for some people from all eternity, particularly without regard to their actions and decisions for or against God.

33 posted on 11/02/2001 7:21:49 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
I don't see any other context in which the statement can be taken. It is completely straightforward. Your reference to the context is a weak attempt to dodge the issue.

The Lutheran - Catholic accord on justification was a complete disaster. In the end it accomplished nothing. How can a Lutheran be justified without professing the Catholic faith?

34 posted on 11/02/2001 7:22:43 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: Bellarmine
I don't see any other context in which the statement can be taken. It is completely straightforward. Your reference to the context is a weak attempt to dodge the issue.
Then why don’t you prove that this is what V2 said? It didn’t say that, and you know it. The Cardinal’s opinion is no more then that, the Cardinal’s opinion. You can take it as Gospel all you like, it isn’t.

patent  +AMDG

35 posted on 11/02/2001 7:27:12 AM PST by patent
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To: Aquinasfan
No, Aquinasfan, I don't believe the Holy Spirit operates through Mary at all. As you can see, I'm not a Catholic and Mary is a Catholic ideal, not a protestant one. I believe she was the mother of Jesus Christ and that was her main purpose. The Holy Spirit will baptize the Muslims in the Holy Spirit without her help.
36 posted on 11/02/2001 7:33:29 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: patent
Why all the animosity? I won't point out any place where Vatican II says this, because I can't. I just wanted to point out how the top Vatican officials working on ecumenism view the issue. The question is, do we support the Vatican now or harken back to past teachings of the church?
37 posted on 11/02/2001 7:36:30 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: Bellarmine
In the final analysis, I think the decision as to who is to be saved is a choice God alone will make.

How can a finite mind possibly fathom the thought processes of an Infinite Intellect?

38 posted on 11/02/2001 7:37:56 AM PST by ZULU
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To: firebrand
Has anyone read Tom Robbin,s book...Fierce Invalids Home From Hot Climates...? In it he gives very clearly the three predictions; which Mary gave to those girls on her visits to them in Fatima...also they can be found easily on the web. easy1
39 posted on 11/02/2001 7:38:01 AM PST by easy1
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To: proud2bRC
bttt

At the present time, the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming a hatred against Christianity itself.

Hmmmm...fifty years later and we still have not realized the peril.

40 posted on 11/02/2001 7:40:33 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Doctor Stochastic

:

41 posted on 11/02/2001 7:49:58 AM PST by ppaul
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To: proud2bRC
I had the pleasure of seeing Fr. Corapi last year. He was talking about Our Lady and her victories. He said (reverently of course) "your momma wears combat boots."
42 posted on 11/02/2001 7:50:48 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Marysecretary
All the baptized are incorporated into the mystical Body of Christ. And death does not separate us from the love of Christ (or the body of Christ). Scripture teaches us to pray for each other. So why wouldn't those in heaven pray for us? After all, they are more "alive" than we are.
43 posted on 11/02/2001 7:51:46 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan; Charles Henrickson
Unaided reason tells us that God is Good.

Yes, but the Calvinist unaided reason tells us that God is omnipotent and omniscient, therefore if X is eternally damned, then God made him. Charles Henrickson's point (really, the Lutheran Synod's position as I understood it) was that these two views that humans have of God,-- God of love and God of power, are not reconcilable under pure reason.

This may not be a proper thread to discuss this at length.

Pastor, why do you think the Muslims persist in their faith?

44 posted on 11/02/2001 7:53:18 AM PST by annalex
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To: Bellarmine
The question is, do we support the Vatican now or harken back to past teachings of the church?
Ahhh, the words that nearly all schismatics utter sooner or later. But we must return to the true faith! I hope that you are not one of these who would leave the Church and the Pope to follow your private interpretation of the “past teachings of the Church.” I do not know you or where you are at, so please understand I make no judgments about you, but those words have such strong historical context to them.

As doctrine has developed through the last (nearly) 2000 years of Christianity various schismatics have reacted to various developments by demanding a return to the past teachings as they understood them. Just to cite a couple of the major examples that everyone is familiar with, the Orthodox and the filoque, and the Protestants nearly always claim they are a return to the ancient Church that was corrupted by the Catholic hierarchy. There are an infinite number of lesser examples, the Jansenists, etc. We could go on and on. History has clearly demonstrated that the only way to stay on the side of truth is to cling to the Holy See. Heresy after heresy after heresy arises, and no land has stayed safe from them, except those who remain aligned with the Pope.

I do not cling to Cardinal Kasper and what he states. I do cling to what the Pope teaches, and what the Church formally states. From the catechism:

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him." 267
The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God." 268
Dominus Vobiscum

patent  +AMDG

45 posted on 11/02/2001 7:54:38 AM PST by patent
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Don't discount direct intervention, even while missionaries may be in a perilous situation: From http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian7.htm
I do not know the "official" position of the Church on this:

Messages from Heaven - the Apparitions of the Virgin Mary - Zeitun, Egypt

Painting of Mary of Zeitun

" Official investigations have been carried out with the result that it has been considered an undeniable fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary has been appearing on Zeitun Church in a clear and bright luminous body seen by all present in front of the church, whether Christian or Moslem"

Report of General Information and Complaints Department, Zeitun, Egypt 1968

While all in America were watching the the Chicago riots at the Democratic Convention, or viewing live war zone broadcasts from Vietnam or were being mesmerized by the Watergate hearings on television, the Mother of God was appearing for tens of thousands to see in the land of the pyramids at a Coptic church constructed to commemorate the area in Egypt where she had come with Joseph and Jesus when they all fled from Herod. Starting in April, 1968, her apparitions of light changed the lives of thousands. Her appearances at Zeitun were astounding. She was seen by more than a million people. The apparitions were broadcast by Egyptian TV, photographed by hundreds of professional photographers and personally witnessed by Egyptian President Abdul Nasser, an avowed Marxist. The apparitions lasted for three years with numerous unaccountable healings recorded by various medical professionals. The local police, who initially thought the apparitions were an elaborate hoax, searched a 15-mile radius surrounding the site to uncover any type of device that could be used to project such images. They were completely unsuccessful.

Photo of Mary over Church

Moslems who saw the apparitions chanted from the Koran, "Mary, God has chosen thee. And purified thee; He has chosen thee. Above all women." She was seen accompanied by doves of light in apparitions that lasted from a few minutes to as long as nine hours. Kyrillos VI, the Orthodox patriarch, formed a commission to investigate the apparitions. A number of the commissioners observed plumes of fragrant purple smoke rising from the church at the time of the apparitions and the figure of a woman surrounded by a very bright globe of light accompanied by doves of light. A digitally-enhanced, negative image of one television frame is shown at the top of this page to enable you a see an outline of what was seen by hundreds of thousands in Egypt.

While the appearances at Zietum were silent, the silence spoke volumes to those who came to see and strengthen their faith. The local Coptic Patriarch, Kyrillos VI, publicly announced a year after the apparitions started that he had no doubt that the Mother of God was appearing above the roof of St. Mary's Coptic Church.

For those who, like Thomas, needed to see for themselves, Mary offered an unequivocal televised demonstration at Zeitun. Yet, because of an unresponsive media and an indifferent world, very few outside of Egypt learned of her astonishing appearances there until well after they had ended.

More recently, the appearance of a woman clothed in light has been observed above the roof of the Church of St. Damian in Shoubra, Egypt, a suburb of Cairo. Starting in 1983 and seen with increasing frequency in the mid-1980's, the woman was seen by thousands walking above the church bathed in light in apparitions lasting up to five hours. Shenouda III, the head of the Coptic Church at the time, established a commission to investigate the beautiful lady of light. In 1987, the commission concluded:

"Let us thank the Lord for this blessing on the people of Egypt and for the repetition of this phenomenon. We should also like to thank the police and the Department of the Interior for their untiring efforts at maintaining safety and good order among the thousands of people who have spent day and night at prayer. We ask all the people to remain calm. Thus they may worthily receive the blessing of the Virgin, of St. Damian and of all the saints. May God save our country. We pray that he may guide Egypt and all her children to every success. May this phenomenon be a pledge of well-being for them and for all nations."

As in Zeitun, the silent witness of the Mother of God renewed the faith of tens of thousands and brought both Moslem and Christian to a place of peace where all could pray to the God who loved them enough to remind them of his love by sending His Mother.

46 posted on 11/02/2001 8:05:43 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Aquinasfan
The bible only mentions that Jesus intercedes for us. I see no mention of any other. He's the one I go to when I pray.
47 posted on 11/02/2001 8:28:34 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: proud2bRC
Interesting. Has anyone pinned down or verified the latest story about Sr. Lucia? Is is true that she has commented on the current terrorism, relating it to the prophetic message?
48 posted on 11/02/2001 8:33:19 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi; father_elijah
Interesting. Has anyone pinned down or verified the latest story about Sr. Lucia? Is is true that she has commented on the current terrorism, relating it to the prophetic message?
I can’t say I’ve pinned it down, but the most reliable indications indicate that she asked people to pray the rosary for peace, but did not comment otherwise. The letter that was sent out conforms to that. This is just MHO, not authoritative or anything.

I'm pinging FE since I think he knows more about this then I do.

patent  +AMDG

49 posted on 11/02/2001 8:38:17 AM PST by patent
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