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Archbshp Sheen's Prophetic warning of 50 years ago: Mary and the Moslems; The Significance of Fatima
The Mindzenty Report, published by the Cardinal Mindzenty Foundation ^ | 11/1/01 | Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Posted on 11/02/2001 5:42:58 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

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To: proud2bRC; 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal; veronica; dennisw; TrueBeliever9; Prodigal Daughter; Zadokite...
The basis of the Anti Christs one world religion...the "Queen of Heaven"!
101 posted on 11/02/2001 1:09:16 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: father_elijah
Well, the sky probably IS falling. Unfortunately, it's doing so at a time when Catholics, at any rate, sapped by the undermining of their devotions and customs during the last 30 years, are not very well prepared to hold it up.

But at the same time, it is true that to Muslims, the distinctions between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox are immaterial. In fact, the distinction between Christians and Jews is not particularly important to them. We must remember that one of the things that enabled Islam to conquer Spain and North Africa was the fact that Christians were fighting among themselves, sometimes over politics (Visigothic kingdoms in Spain) and sometimes over religion (Arian and other heresies).

As a pragmatic matter, we've got to put all this aside for awhile. The real enemy has revealed himself, and he's not any of us.

102 posted on 11/02/2001 1:14:32 PM PST by livius
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To: RnMomof7
I wondered how long it would be till the Jack Chick brigade would join our discussion.
103 posted on 11/02/2001 1:19:54 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
If you can not see the problem with this a thousand of us will never convince you...
104 posted on 11/02/2001 1:21:07 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
maybe he could read the February 15 2000 PLO Vatican agreement...the deals have allready been done
105 posted on 11/02/2001 1:24:51 PM PST by Governor StrangeReno
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To: proud2bRC
Yes indeed. Just when you think it is safe to get back into the water ....

Let them just discuss among themselves.

106 posted on 11/02/2001 1:27:00 PM PST by father_elijah
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To: RnMomof7
The basis of the Anti Christs one world religion...the "Queen of Heaven"!

There is nothing more hateful than an ex-Catholic.

Nothing dumber either.

107 posted on 11/02/2001 1:31:32 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: RnMomof7
Monstrous calumny of the Jews against the Virgin Mary?
108 posted on 11/02/2001 1:32:36 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: sinkspur
Looking at the last 2000 years in the middle east its hard to assume that either Christians,Muslims or Jews are on the right boat..Buddhisms looking appealing the Gods are dysfunctional.
109 posted on 11/02/2001 1:38:06 PM PST by Governor StrangeReno
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To: sinkspur
These are not my words they are the words of a Catholic Icon (that I watched growing up)

A Missionary Strategy Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ Himself is born. In an apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Moslems have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her divine Son. She is forever a traitor, in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.

The source of conversion should be Jesus Christ sink..We should preach Christ crucified..that isn't hateful it is scriptual..

110 posted on 11/02/2001 1:40:15 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: patent
In all humility -- I ask -- please add me to your list, sir.

When I see that the posts will be Catholic hate drawing or conflicting, divisive and ill suited to our Faith airing differences in Catholic "views"-- I will just read the article.

Please??????
111 posted on 11/02/2001 1:46:41 PM PST by AKA Elena
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To: RnMomof7
The source of conversion should be Jesus Christ sink.

He is. As Mary would say. She points to her Son and says "follow Him."

You convince no one, Mom. These doctrinal dust-ups don't do anything but make Christians look petty and foolish.

"My way is better than your way."

Or, even worse:

"My way is THE ONLY WAY."

112 posted on 11/02/2001 1:48:56 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: proud2bRC; RnMomof7
I think it would be more productive to take this to a separate Protestant thread. I need to look for an article to post first, but I'm wondering why it should be so surprising that Mohammed's daughter's name is Fatima? It's an ARAB name, the MOORS (Arabs) were in Iberia. Mohammed had about 50 concubines (okay I'm not sure of the number) so he probably exhausted all the Arabic names. My own mother, born in D.C., was named Fatima after my grandpa's sister aunt in Beirut. Zeitun (egypt) I believe is Arabic for olive. An akita is a dog. And?

The prayer for the Moslems is wonderful, but the reason Moslems flock to Fatima is because Jesus (to them Issa or Esau and God said "Esau I have hated") is supposed to come back at the end times and according t them, he's going to slay every Christian who doesn't bow down to Mohammed according to the Moslems. Why should we get excited about that? If Protestants followed a scripture that said that the Pope in the last days is going to kill all Catholics who don't convert to Protestantism, I wonder if you'd all be so excited if Protestants were lining up to visit the Vatican, or would you realize they might be lining up to see you killed (in this hypothetical scenario)? You know how they line up to see stonings and public executions in the Moslem world, well that's the concept here.

113 posted on 11/02/2001 1:49:27 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: proud2bRC
Why do they always have to come muck up the Catholic threads? Why is it that everytime there is a discussion of any part of Catholic teaching they disagree with they have to come in and tell everyone they are going to hell for believing it? What is with the HUGE chip they seem to have on their shoulders?

Catholics don't do this to them. They are free to have their threads about pre-destination, rapture, sola scriptura etc without even a single Catholic screaming about how they are wrong in what they believe. Catholics don't run around damning them to hell or calling their preachers anti-christs for their un-biblical ideas. Yet they always have to come into Catholic/Orthodox discussions to pick fights. Do they actually think they win anyone's hearts with their constant attacks?

So much hatred from people who call themselves christians...

114 posted on 11/02/2001 1:53:13 PM PST by Flying Circus
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To: sinkspur
"My way is better than your way."
Or, even worse: "My way is THE ONLY WAY."

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Not my way Sink..His way!

115 posted on 11/02/2001 1:53:17 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
The source of conversion should be Jesus Christ sink.
Regardless of what is preached Jesus Christ is always the source of conversion. It is neither the messenger or how he chooses the message, but the Word Incarnate that brings us home.
We should preach Christ crucified..that isn't hateful it is scriptual..
Why don’t you go and try, see if you get any conversions. In any case, of course they will preach Christ crucified as well. That doesn’t mean we should ignore common ground and use that to our advantage.

patent  +AMDG

116 posted on 11/02/2001 1:53:45 PM PST by patent
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To: Governor StrangeReno
maybe he could read the February 15 2000 PLO Vatican agreement...the deals have allready been done
Have you compared the agreement with the PLO to the agreement with Israel? Can you tell me what it is in the agreement with the PLO that offends you, that is not also in the agreement with Israel? And yes, I do actually expect quotes, your own personal paraphrase wouldn't be all that effective.

patent  +AMDG

117 posted on 11/02/2001 1:55:13 PM PST by patent
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To: Prodigal Daughter
Well, I think I'l toss a notion into this fray:

The prayer for the Moslems is wonderful, but the reason Moslems flock to Fatima is because Jesus (to them Issa or Esau and God said "Esau I have hated") is supposed to come back at the end times and according t them, he's going to slay every Christian who doesn't bow down to Mohammed according to the Moslems.

I happen to believe in the rapture of the Church, the chaste bride of Christ, at the end times. The 'slay every Christian' may actually be the source of the great lie the world will believe concerning the sudden snatching away, that the Moslem's 'Esau has disposed of these who would not bow to Mohammed'. Apostasy always has some grain of plausibility in it, a times mostly plausible, but there is always that small bit of leaven that leveneth the whole.

118 posted on 11/02/2001 2:15:05 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: Governor StrangeReno
Buddhism used to look appealing to me too. Then I read a chapter of the dalai lama's autobiography that totally cured me. He talks about the terrible torture of Tibetans by the ChiComms and then he still finds a way to praise Communism/Marxism and blame the west for China's being butchers. I guess we don't channel enough positive energy as Richard Gere would say.

Recently I found this (from Buddhist sites)

In the mid-sixteenth century, when Father Francis Xavier arrived in Japan with the hope of converting its people to Christianity, he was shocked upon encountering so many Buddhist monks involved in homoerotic relationships; indeed, he rapidly began referring to homoeroticism as the "Japanese vice." Needless to say, Father Xavier decided it was his duty to rid Japan of the "sin of sodomy." Xavier wrote, "We frequently tell the bonzes [i.e., Buddhist monks] that they should not commit such shameful sins; and everything that we tell them amuses them since they laugh about it and have no shame when they are reproached about so vile a sin." It appears, however, that Xavier and his fellow missionaries did not manage to convince a majority of Buddhists. It is reported that on one occasion, as he and a group of missionaries were walking through the streets of Yamaguchi, a gang of youths began yelling at them, "So you're the ones who forbid sodomy!" The youths then began throwing their shoes at them.

Now you know why they would take a male child from every family in Tibet and other Buddhist communities and give them to the monasteries.

Well now that I've angered the Catholics and the Buddhists, I have to go (I have to take my son to his homecoming), and I'm NOT anti-Catholic for anybody's information.

119 posted on 11/02/2001 2:18:37 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Bellarmine
How can a Lutheran be justified without professing the Catholic faith?

Last time I checked, faith in Christ was working pretty well.

120 posted on 11/02/2001 4:13:44 PM PST by the808bass
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To: Aquinasfan
With regard to the passages frequently cited by Calvinists which say that "God hated..." the explanation is that the phrase "God hated..." is a Jewish idiom with a different meaning than what we would ascribe to the phrase.

Are you saying that Paul misunderstood the Jewish idiom? He did write in Greek, right? (I'm not a Calvinist, in the interests of full disclosure.)

121 posted on 11/02/2001 4:20:17 PM PST by the808bass
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To: proud2bRC
I wondered how long it would be till the Jack Chick brigade would join our discussion.

Reporting for duty. :)

122 posted on 11/02/2001 4:24:25 PM PST by the808bass
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To: RnMomof7
The source of conversion should be Jesus Christ sink..We should preach Christ crucified..that isn't hateful it is scriptual.

One can be culturally relevant to Muslims without Lady Fatima. An amazing missionary to the Afghans and Pakistanis visited my seminary. He quoted their own poetry to them, sang their songs, immersed himself in their culture. All for the sake of presenting Christ.

123 posted on 11/02/2001 4:27:22 PM PST by the808bass
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To: the808bass
Reporting for duty. :)

And lookin good soldier..*grin* hey 808......

124 posted on 11/02/2001 4:29:43 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Flying Circus
Why do they always have to come muck up the Catholic threads? Because Satan knows the right address.

When you're equally hated by the liberals, homosexual activists, abortionists, population controllers, the UN, feminists, agnostics, atheists, communists, etc, as well as the fundamentalists and bible only folks, you know ya' just gotta be doing something right.

Frankly the more they attack, the deeper my faith gets. I makes me realize more than ever we fight alongside Christ, and the forces of anti-Christ are arrayed against His body, the Church.

Wonder why they never stop to contemplate the company they keep in deriding Catholicism?

Surely, the Whore of Babylon would be in league with the liberals, homosexual activists, abortionists, population controllers, the UN, feminists, atheists, communists, etc.

But those folks hate us just as much as these anti-Catholic Jack Chick types here.

Don't they ever stop to look around them at the company they're keeping and question where exactly they stand??? Do they not realize they themselves stand within the Whore of Babylon, alongside all the other little anti-Christs arrayed against Christ?

Do they not realize that true believers are not deceived by their propaganda?

We have 2000 years of the teaching of Christ and proper interpretation of scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and through the authority Christ granted His Church. We don't need their fallible personal interpretation of these various scriptural proof texts taken out of context. We know and understand their true context and their proper interpretation and we don't need the only-500-years-old-protestant-revolt-against-the-authority-Christ-gave-His-church-new-false-gospel-anti-Catholic-bigoted-interpretation.

My apologies for being uncharitable. I know in their own little minds they mean well, and think they are doing god's work. But so do the terrorists, to be blunt.

Time is too short to waste on these folks. The truth has been preached to them on this forum repeatedly. If they continue to refuse it, it is nigh about time to stop casting pearls, and shake the dust off our feet.

Yeah, Satan knows the right address.

And his minions do his bidding wittingly and unwittingly. May God have mercy on them.

125 posted on 11/02/2001 4:34:02 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: the808bass
I was listening to family radio tuesday they were talking about how our young multiculturally raised kids ,that seem to lack any ties to our culture are perfect missionaries,because they have no judgemental attitude toward other cultures and they when they learn the culture they are absorbed in it and so relate well on the mission fields..
126 posted on 11/02/2001 4:36:15 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
a thousand of us will never convince you

That is the only completely true statement I expect to see from you on this forum, as well as the highest praise I could possibly hear from you. Please refer to #125.

127 posted on 11/02/2001 4:45:25 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: prognostigaator
And what would Mohammed have to say about the treatment of his daughter in the current scheme of things in the Moslem world....

He would say that the Muslims have strayed too far from the path he prescribed. And then, he'd call on God to launch an airstrike.

128 posted on 11/02/2001 4:47:00 PM PST by Hamza01
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To: proud2bRC
This is a joke, right? You don't actually believe this stuff you post, do you? Like only RC's are persecuted for their "faith". Sure.
129 posted on 11/02/2001 4:54:27 PM PST by Iowegian
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To: proud2bRC
Hey Rc...no hard feeling I was born and raised RC and still sleep with one.....come on over to the count your self search thread ,you gotta be up there too
130 posted on 11/02/2001 5:05:22 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: proud2bRC
Self search count come play..
131 posted on 11/02/2001 5:07:54 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: proud2bRC
EWTN is showing an episode of Life is Worth Living with Bishop Sheen talking about...Fatima! I'm sure they will be replaying it.
132 posted on 11/02/2001 5:16:10 PM PST by ELS
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To: patent
Other then an EWTN, a Catholic priest can’t get on television anymore to teach the faith.

It is a shame. His show Life is Worth Living had a viewership of over 30 million and won an Emmy award in 1952.

133 posted on 11/02/2001 5:27:52 PM PST by ELS
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To: the808bass
My commentary says that it's a Jewish idiom that means "to love less." That's all I can tell you.
134 posted on 11/02/2001 5:28:20 PM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: proud2bRC
Great Post!!

Go to www.tfp.org then click on America Needs Fatima, It's a great site

Order the Book: "Our Lady of Fatima:Prophecies of Tragedy or Hope?" Antonio Borelli and John R. Spann Tradition, Family, Property & America Needs Fatima, CRUSADE magazine

It's all in the Book

135 posted on 11/02/2001 5:40:43 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Aquinasfan
But it's not written in Hebrew in the New Testament. In order to advance your theory, you have to claim that Paul misunderstood the idiom or unsuccessfully tried to port it into the Greek with similar results as "All your base are belong to us."
136 posted on 11/02/2001 5:41:55 PM PST by the808bass
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To: Iowegian
Like only RC's are persecuted for their "faith".

Never said that. I said that Catholicism is attacked from all sides because Satan knows the right address.

Does that mean no other Christians, or even non Christians, were/are never persecuted? Certainly not.

Just that Catholicism is attacked uniformly from all corners, much more so than any other Christian denomination.

That is simply an observable fact. Draw your own conclusions, but don't deny facts.

137 posted on 11/02/2001 6:46:21 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: RnMomof7
No problem...probably just sleep deprivation and frustration on my part...I'm a bit more testy than usual..a lot less patient. Sorry. By the way, 2700 since joining in July 17. Is that much?
138 posted on 11/02/2001 7:08:19 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Iowegian
"Surely you can't be serious?"

I am serious, and quit calling me Shirley...see post # 137

139 posted on 11/02/2001 7:29:00 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Coleus
I've had a few of the TFP men in my home, and I have their book, "Nobility and Traditional Analogous Elites."

I think they do good work. They have a wonderful presence at the March for Life in DC every year. (But individually some TFP's might tend towards schismatic traditionalist positions.)

140 posted on 11/02/2001 7:33:32 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Just that Catholicism is attacked uniformly from all corners, much more so than any other Christian denomination.

I don't agree, but if you are right there is a reason for this. No other denomination makes the kind of arrogant claims for itself the the RCC does. And spare me the "that's because they are true" sermon. I've heard it all many times.

141 posted on 11/02/2001 7:34:21 PM PST by Iowegian
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To: proud2bRC
This brings us to our second point: namely, why the Blessed Mother, in the 20th century, should have revealed herself in the significant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as Our Lady of Fatima.

I knew about the revelations at Fatima but am astounded to the link with Mohammed's daughter.

142 posted on 11/02/2001 7:40:32 PM PST by Salvation
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To: George W. Bush
bump
143 posted on 11/02/2001 7:40:45 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: patent
it doesn’t bode well for the alleged superiority of Western Civ.

In the sense you mean "Western Civ." there is no hope, because in that sense "Western Civ." is the present materialism, the current horrible apostasy, and not instead the secular image, the veritable reflection, of Our True Holy and Catholic Church, over which even the gates of Hell have no power.

"Western Civ." without the Church is exactly like my heart without the Holy Spirit dwelling within. Just nothing there!

You people aren't the only folks here who are proud to be Roman Catholic. Would you please put me on the list?

144 posted on 11/03/2001 1:07:17 AM PST by Iris7
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To: Aquinasfan
Greetings Aquinasfan

"I put the bible above church doctrine."

The church is the "pillar and foundation of truth." -The Bible (1 Tim. 3:15)

Pillars and foundations are obviously references to buildings,therefore so is truth a part of the building.(in this analogy).Truth is that that must be seen yes? So in this analogy of a building truth is that part which must be the most easily seen.Pillars and foundations are that which HOLD UP the truth for all to see.The church itself is not the truth,it is that which should HOLD UP THE TRUTH for all to see.

John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth"

Grace and peace to you

God bless

145 posted on 11/03/2001 1:12:38 AM PST by mitch5501
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To: Marysecretary
See above

God bless

146 posted on 11/03/2001 1:16:01 AM PST by mitch5501
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To: proud2bRC
BTT
Please put me on your ping list
Thanks for posting this
Love Archbishop Sheen, he was prophetic on a number of topics especially the decline of morals in our country.
This brings new weight to Mary's statement that by the rosary and the scapular she would save the world. These times (the fight over Islam) could very well be the times she was speaking of. Of course she always defers to her son. Cana showed us He would refuse her nothing. I am convinced through prayers especially the rosary we will be shown mercy.
BTW I am pretty sure Zeitun is on the list of approved apparitions.
147 posted on 11/03/2001 1:30:09 AM PST by MomwithHope
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To: proud2bRC
Because Satan knows the right address.

When you're equally hated by the liberals, homosexual activists, abortionists, population controllers, the UN, feminists, agnostics, atheists, communists, etc, as well as the fundamentalists and bible only folks, you know ya' just gotta be doing something right.

... I know in their own little minds they mean well, and think they are doing god's work. But so do the terrorists, to be blunt.

produd2bRC, switch to de-caf. Speaking from personal experience, people who disagree with you are not neccessarily the spawn of Satan, do not neccessarily hate you, and are not necessarily in league with liberals, homosexual activists, abortionists, population controllers, the UN, feminists, agnostics, atheists, and communists. I personally find the comparison of fundamentalists and bible only folks with terrorists to be extremely offensive, and unwarranted.

Cordially,

148 posted on 11/03/2001 4:45:50 AM PST by Diamond
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To: Diamond
Please explain to me how else I am to respond to this BS, which is the standard response bible only Christians use when they see us Catholics discussing our faith.

To: proud2bRC; 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal; veronica; dennisw; TrueBeliever9; Prodigal Daughter; Zadokite...

The basis of the Anti Christs one world religion...the "Queen of Heaven"!

101 posted on 11/2/01 5:09 PM Eastern by RnMomof7 [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

*****

I have been told so many times on this forum that we Catholics worship Mary, belong to the church that represents the Whore of Babylon, listen to a Pope who is the anti-Christ, etc etc etc. Most Catholics here hold their tongue, in charity to our poor separated brethren who simply are ignorant.

When I posted the response to which you refer, I must admit I was in a foul mood and was thoroughly disgusted with the constant bigotry against the Catholic faith on this forum.

Regardless, Catholicism is continually attacked on this forum.

people who disagree with you are not neccessarily the spawn of Satan, do not neccessarily hate you

No, but they implicitly and explicitly say that we Catholics belong to a church that IS the spawn of Satan, that devotion to Mary is idol worship, etc etc etc.

Grow a thicker skin. If these folks want to continually insult and assault my faith, I'm not going to hold my tongue.

What I stated in that post is noting compared to what has been said to me personally and what has been said about my Faith on this forum. If you attack Catholicism, you attack the body of Christ. If you attack the body you attack the head, Christ. He who attacks Christ is anti-Christ. Therefore the ignorant bigots here who attack Catholicism work for Satan, whether they know it or not, whether they admit it or not.

They're just whining now because they usually are on the other end of making the charges about anti-Christ and Whore of Babylon. If they don't like it, stay off our Catholic threads!!!

149 posted on 11/03/2001 9:05:11 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Diamond
I personally find the comparison of fundamentalists and bible only folks with terrorists to be extremely offensive, and unwarranted.

Good. In my mood at that time, it was absolutely intended to be extremely offensive. Absolutely.

Now you are beginning to get a feel for the way we Catholics feel as we continually bite our tongue and return insult with patient apologetics. Starting to get the point yet???

Every time the Jack Chick types make statements like

The basis of the Anti Christs one world religion...the "Queen of Heaven"!

it is even more offensive to us than what I said in my post is offensive to you, yet it happens every day here on FR.

One Catholic gets fed up and calls a spade a spade and just look at the whining. Give me a break.

I guess I'll be heading to confession this afternoon. My patience is gone, my charity depleted, for those who see the speck in their neighbor's eye yet fail to see the plank in their own on this forum.

150 posted on 11/03/2001 9:14:41 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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