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Archbshp Sheen's Prophetic warning of 50 years ago: Mary and the Moslems; The Significance of Fatima
The Mindzenty Report, published by the Cardinal Mindzenty Foundation ^ | 11/1/01 | Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Posted on 11/02/2001 5:42:58 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

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To: Marysecretary
I will intercede for you (i.e., I will pray for you---that is very scriptural) that you will come to better comprehend these Truths. From the article:

and in Mozambique the Moslems who were unconverted, began to be Christian as soon as the statue of Our Lady of Fatima was erected.

A Missionary Strategy
Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ Himself is born. In an apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Moslems have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her divine Son.

She is forever a traitor, in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ,so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.

51 posted on 11/02/2001 8:52:24 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
If I remember my history, Fatima, Portugal is named for a muslim princess who converted to Christianity and married a local nobleman. Upon her death, her husband endowed the lands with her name.
52 posted on 11/02/2001 8:56:10 AM PST by Dumb_Ox
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To: Dumb_Ox
From the article above:

At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Moslem chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he live to Fatima. Thus, the very place where our Lady apeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.

53 posted on 11/02/2001 8:57:57 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: patent; Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi; father_elijah
No definitive proof either way that I can find, other than some at the Vatican have said no new messages/warnings (which should be proof enough for all of us, but these are extraordinary times):

Sr. Lucy Receives New Message

ROME-MOSCOW WATCH -The Secret of Fatima: More to Come?

54 posted on 11/02/2001 9:22:06 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Found one more good, related article:

Russian People Hear More About John Paul II's Connection to Fatima.

55 posted on 11/02/2001 9:26:28 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC; patent
I pray that the Church brings forth another with the ability to preach like the late Bishop Sheen.
56 posted on 11/02/2001 9:27:10 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Amen.
57 posted on 11/02/2001 9:29:41 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Excellent, I am passing it on to my friends...this is an interesting part of the Fatima story I have never heard...
58 posted on 11/02/2001 9:37:02 AM PST by mostlyundecided
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To: patent
Whoa! That was quite a response. I think you misunderstood my question though. Perhaps I should elaborate. Here we have Cardinal Kasper who has been appointed the Vatican's top official for christian unity. Now I proposed that his teachings are in disagreement with prior church teachings on christian unity. But this presents a dilemma. We must assume that someone holding heterodox views could not rise to such a high position in the church and remain there. Therefore, his views must be viewed as inside the sphere of acceptables Catholic teaching on ecumenism. However, if we harken back to earlier church teachings (here I meant Vatican II), we find a different view of ecumenism. So again, I restate the question. Do we follow the current Vatican teaching on ecumenism represented by the top ranking official in charge of ecumenical affairs, Cardinal Kasper, or do we harken back to Vatican II's teaching and disregard the current church's views?

I don't know what the point of accusing me of schism was. Perhaps you should be a little more careful before you start throwing such loaded terms around. It is an act lacking very much in the virtue of charity.

59 posted on 11/02/2001 9:38:37 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: proud2bRC; patent
Interesting. From the alleged text of "The Third Secret," there was the suggestion of the slaughter of Christians. That...has happened. And, of course, has been happening throughout the century.

The shenanigans with all this weaselling around with what the Third Secret refers to is troubling. Has any credible Catholic authority compiled all of the various statements about the meaning of the Third Secret? Presumably, if one says the "dogma of the faith" will be preserved in Portugal, by implication that seems to suggest elsewhere it won't be. And then some sort of violent chastizements following as with the original Fatima prophecy of the Russian Revolution and World War II. Why did or why would factions in the Vatican try to dismiss and poopoo the Third Secret? Wasn't it supposed to have been made public in 1960 when part of it allegedly would already be in the process of coming true according to Sr. Lucia? What was it that was coming true in the early 1960s? The great falling away, the great apostasy? You know, you sort of wonder why John XXIII didn't want to make it public.

60 posted on 11/02/2001 9:52:04 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: proud2bRC
Bump for later...JFK
61 posted on 11/02/2001 9:54:03 AM PST by BADROTOFINGER
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To: Bellarmine
We must assume that someone holding heterodox views could not rise to such a high position in the church and remain there.
Why? It wouldn’t be the first time.
Therefore, his views must be viewed as inside the sphere of acceptables Catholic teaching on ecumenism.
I don’t think you can state that automatically. The Pope didn’t vet each and every statement he made or will make before appointing him, and the Pope hasn’t held in some fashion that his teachings are acceptable. This is a prudential decision, and as such it is subject to the errors or prudence that a Pope is still capable of.
However, if we harken back to earlier church teachings (here I meant Vatican II), we find a different view of ecumenism. So again, I restate the question. Do we follow the current Vatican teaching on ecumenism represented by the top ranking official in charge of ecumenical affairs, Cardinal Kasper, or do we harken back to Vatican II's teaching and disregard the current church's views?
I don’t harken back, I harken to that which is eternal. Vatican II and the Catechism, as cited above, match. They say the same things. Thus, you can read either, you can harken back or you can read the present Church teachings, which regardless of what the Cardinal states, have not changed. The Cardinal is not the Magisterium, regardless of what he states, he is entirely and completely incapable of changing Church teaching.
I don't know what the point of accusing me of schism was. Perhaps you should be a little more careful before you start throwing such loaded terms around. It is an act lacking very much in the virtue of charity.
Perhaps while you are accusing me of using loaded terms and accusing you of schism, you should reread my words:
I do not know you or where you are at, so please understand I make no judgments about you, but those words have such strong historical context to them.
How exactly, do you get to my accusing you of being schismatic. I distinctly stated I do not know where you are at and that I make no judgments about you. I am very clear above, the words were words that many schematics utter. Thus, I criticized the wording, not the person.

I don’t even accuse most SSPX adherents of being schismatic, I’m not going to try to judge you based on one sentence. It is quite simply not my place.

Dominus Vobiscum

patent  +AMDG

62 posted on 11/02/2001 9:57:52 AM PST by patent
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
The shenanigans with all this weaselling around with what the Third Secret refers to is troubling.
Yes.
Has any credible Catholic authority compiled all of the various statements about the meaning of the Third Secret?
Yes, it was published by the Vatican with commentary. If you mean all the statements by various groups claiming this and that about the meaning, I don't think that is possible. So many people are trying to hijack this thing that its impossible to be an expert on all of them.
Why did or why would factions in the Vatican try to dismiss and poopoo the Third Secret?
Not sure what you mean, but I didn’t think they did poopoo it. That the various divisions of the apparition fringe isn’t satisfied with what it said since it didn't say what they wanted it to say. Similarly so many demand that the Pope say what they want him to say or the Bible say what they want it to say, but that doesn't mean it was poopooed. (can I say poopooed on FR?)
Wasn't it supposed to have been made public in 1960 when part of it allegedly would already be in the process of coming true according to Sr. Lucia?
No, a creation of various types who think the Church wandered at about the same time. It fits their world view.
What was it that was coming true in the early 1960s? The great falling away, the great apostasy? You know, you sort of wonder why John XXIII didn't want to make it public.
It also makes you wonder about the folks who make the claims about it. If God was really trying to say something more about it, and if God had said through Mary that it was to be published in 1960, do you really think Sr. Lucia would have obeyed any earthly instruction to remain quiet about it?

patent  +AMDG

63 posted on 11/02/2001 10:04:18 AM PST by patent
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To: afraidfortherepublic; proud2bRC
I pray that the Church brings forth another with the ability to preach like the late Bishop Sheen.
I often think it has, but it is so hard to see them though all the dust and haze thrown up in the last couple decades. You can find so many who really can preach, but the times are different. The liberals who are fighting so tenaciously to retain control over the Church in this country aren’t going to let a good preacher easily achieve national status. Other then an EWTN, a Catholic priest can’t get on television anymore to teach the faith. Bishop Sheen was perfect for the time he was in. I think God will give us what we need in this time as well.

Dominus Vobiscum

patent  +AMDG

64 posted on 11/02/2001 10:07:11 AM PST by patent
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To: annalex
If you proceed from certain passages in the Bible then the argument has a certain logical validity. You're right.

But if you begin from unaided reason, the double-predestination doctrine can be seen to be unreasonable.

So there is a paradox. The conclusion derived from First Principles of natural reason apparently contradicts the conclusion derived from certain Scriptural passages. Where does a Christian go from here? The Catholic would defer to unaided reason, since conclusions derived from First Principles are known with certainty. Therefore, the Catholic would conclude (based on the belief that the Bible is inspired) that the Scriptural contradiction is an apparent contradiction or paradox, since Reason cannot contradict Faith (since God is the author of both).

The Catholic would then look to the Church's teaching on the matter or the Church's infallible interpretation of Scripture. With regard to the passages frequently cited by Calvinists which say that "God hated..." the explanation is that the phrase "God hated..." is a Jewish idiom with a different meaning than what we would ascribe to the phrase.

65 posted on 11/02/2001 10:08:17 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: patent
The article posted by Proud2bRC above cites Sr. Lucia as saying the full text of the Third Secret hasn't been revealed. If she really said it, that's not some fringe group making it up.
66 posted on 11/02/2001 10:09:18 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: patent
Factions in the Church did wander in the 1960s, by the way.
67 posted on 11/02/2001 10:11:40 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Marysecretary
He's the one I go to when I pray.

Do you pray for anyone else or do you ask anyone to pray for you?

68 posted on 11/02/2001 10:12:23 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Aquinasfan
I always pray for others, for myself and my family, and ask others to pray for me when I need it. But I always pray in Jesus' name.
69 posted on 11/02/2001 10:15:58 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: patent
Your intention in using the word "schismatic" was very clear to me and I'm sure to most people reading this thread. You wished to insinuate that what I was saying was schismatic while hiding behind a plea that you weren't being judgemental. The implication that I was going to head off into schism if I kept asking similar questions was very clear and by implying it you wished to cut off any further debate on the issue. Perhaps you should step back a second a re-evaluate whether you are qualified to even be using such a term.
70 posted on 11/02/2001 10:16:48 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: Aquinasfan
Everyone needs to be prayed for now.
71 posted on 11/02/2001 10:17:23 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Marysecretary
Well, aren't you interceding for others? Catholics believe that Mary intercedes for us in the same way that you intercede for others.
72 posted on 11/02/2001 10:19:54 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
Actually, that article quotes Sources that say that Sr. Lucia said....big difference. Here's the quote:

Sources have also suggested that Sr. Lucia's letter encourages the Pope to fully reveal the Third Secret. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who presented the interpretation of the Third Secret on June 26, 2000, said yesterday that the recent rumours of a letter are only the continuation of, "an old polemic fed by certain people of dubious credibility," with the objective of "destabilizing the internal equilibrium of the Roman Curia and of troubling the people of God."

One of the people who seems to fit Cardinal Ratzinger's description, arguably, is a Canadian priest, Fr. Nicholas Gruner, head of the Fatima Center, who has been suspended “a divinis” by the Vatican. Fr. Gruner has long maintained that the "third secret" was not fully revealed by the Vatican and has publicly pressured Rome to release the full text.

Gruner claims that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is conducting a "campaign of mystification," revealing only parts of the secret. This "does not conform to the truth," Gruner says.

73 posted on 11/02/2001 10:20:24 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
The article posted by Proud2bRC above cites Sr. Lucia as saying the full text of the Third Secret hasn't been revealed. If she really said it, that's not some fringe group making it up.
Which article above? First of all, the links he gave originated, as I said, from the fringe groups. So far as I can tell, the latest rumors about the Third Secret being revealed started at the Remnant. The Remnant, while not being schismatic in a clear sense, is really out there. They rail against everything in the modern Church, from the Mass in English on up.

There are no statements directly from Sr. Lucia. All of them are being filtered through these various groups, whether the Remnant or Fr. Gruner or whomever.

I think it would be helpful to provide you with the Remnant text talking about a letter from Sr. Lucia, the actual letter (in Spanish in case you are fluent) and a translation thereof. You can evaluate it all for yourself, absent anything I think about it. The Remnant:

Michael Matt, editor of the Remnant a traditionalist Catholic newspaper published the following report on their website.

    We have been informed by a reliable contact in France that Sister Lucy (the only surviving seer of the Fatima apparitions) has delivered a message to Carmelite sisters in France. According to this report, Sister Lucy recently received another communication from the Mother of God. In the wake of that communication, we are told, Sister Lucy has asked Carmelite sisters throughout the world to pray specifically on the Feast of the Most Holy Rosary for a special intention. That intention is, we are told, that the world might be spared “a blood bath.” Whether this has any connection to the impending war with Islamic terrorists, we have no way of knowing.

    Though our French source is reliable, we have not been able to confirm this report ourselves, and are now in the process of trying to do so. At least two Carmelite convents in the United States have indicated to us that they have NOT received such a message. One Carmelite convent, however, did confirm that they did receive a letter from the Asociatcion Ntra. Sca Del Rosario in Fatima Portugal (dated September 13th, 2001), which did call on the Carmelite order to unite with Sister Lucy in praying for peace in the world on October 7—the Feast of the Holy Rosary. In this letter (written in Spanish) there was no mention of a recent communication to Sister Lucy from Our Lady, nor was there reference to a “blood bath.” We are presently waiting for the text of the French version.

    In any event, we believe that, because time is short between now and the Feast of the Holy Rosary, it would be a good idea for all Catholics to join the Carmelites in praying for this intention on tomorrow’s Feast. Such an intention is a certainly most worthy, especially right now; so even if this French report turns out to be somehow exaggerated, the intention is still well worth remembering during this critical hour of unrest and uncertainty in the world.


The letter:


And the translation:
Reverend Mother Prioress and Community,

On the occasion of the Carmelite Jubilee Year and with the desire to receive the greatest amount of Grace possible, inspired by the Holy Spirit, we invite you to join yourselves to our continuous Rosary that we will pray on October 7, Our Lady of the Rosary, for the definitive triumph of the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

From the same chapel of the Holy Apparitions of the Most Blessed Virgin of Fatima and in the Presence of Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament, we will remain for 24 hours praying the Holy Rosary and imploring God for peace in the world and for the pardon of our sins.

In a very special way, we will beseech Him in intercession for the holiness of all Carmelites, in union with Sr. Lucia and the Carmelite Communities.

With great affection and alway united with Jesus and Mary, The Association of Our Lady of the Holy Rosary
John XXIII Avenue, Number 59
2495-403 Fatima, Portugal


74 posted on 11/02/2001 10:24:14 AM PST by patent
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
Factions in the Church did wander in the 1960s, by the way.
Certainly. Some have always wandered in every age. I can’t see how anyone could disagree with that.

patent  +AMDG

75 posted on 11/02/2001 10:24:53 AM PST by patent
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To: proud2bRC
True. But the point that "if she actually said that" is true then the tale that the whole Third Secret is not out is not just a fantasy of fringe groups. I don't know enough about these, but the institutional Church in its earthly manifestation is compromised of many different factions and bureaucracies, not all of which see Marian issues in the same light.
76 posted on 11/02/2001 10:25:56 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: patent
I have no idea which agenda you are pursuing and have no interest in Latin Mass cult wars, but "Inside the Vatican" is a "fringe group" in your lexicon?
77 posted on 11/02/2001 10:30:34 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Aquinasfan
If you proceed from certain passages in the Bible then the argument [for predestined damnation] has a certain logical validity.

It also proceeds from unaided reason. In fact, the first thing obvious to man about God is his power; his love can be naturally put into question, as many Old Testament episodes illustrate.

78 posted on 11/02/2001 10:30:46 AM PST by annalex
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To: Bellarmine
You wished to insinuate that what I was saying was schismatic while hiding behind a plea that you weren't being judgemental.
For someone who is so stridently against my reading anything into your post, you read an awful lot into mine. I’m not hiding behind anything, and my words are clear enough. Anyone reading it can decide what they like about me.

And what you were saying was what schismatics say. That doesn’t make you one, it just means that it is a common statement that schismatics say.

The implication that I was going to head off into schism if I kept asking similar questions was very clear and by implying it you wished to cut off any further debate on the issue.
I hardly wished to cut off debate. If you will note I have posted substance on the issue, I have posted the Church teaching. These things ordinarily further the debate if you are having a discussion with folks who are willing to debate. You have ignored them. If you wish to discuss, please do so.
Perhaps you should step back a second a re-evaluate whether you are qualified to even be using such a term.
Dear sir, to repeat myself, I am quite clearly am not qualified. As I previously said:
It is quite simply not my place.
You are picking a fight where one does not exist. You are doing your dead level best to ignore or twist my words. I am not calling you schismatic.

patent  +AMDG

79 posted on 11/02/2001 10:31:18 AM PST by patent
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To: Bellarmine
Whoa! That was quite a response. I think you misunderstood my question though.

How about backing up to this response. Going on to personal attack does not serve anyone's interest.

I too misunderstood your question, and my gut reaction was precisely that of Patent. He beat me to it.

For anyone who has gone rounds with schismatic traditionalists, or been one themselves, they can see the schismatic errors are much more seductive and sinister than liberal or protestant errors. Furthermore, schismatic traditionalists are sometimes the most vicious and uncharitable in carrying forward their agenda.

I do not make the error of confusing schismatic traditionalists with Traditionalists. I personally attend the Indult mass as often as possible (but since it is 90 miles away, that is not often.)

But a Catholic faithful to the Magisterium and the Pope will always jump harder against perceived schismatic errors than other errors, simply because they recognize the mortal danger to the faithful these errors pose.

So lets go forward with charity and overlook what seems to you an over reaction, and what appears to us to verge on schismatic error.

80 posted on 11/02/2001 10:34:45 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Bump. Patent has linked you with "fringe groups" in a post. Not sure what is going on here or which orthodoxy group trumps which in this game. I just wanted to know whether the current Sr. Lucy update was verified.
81 posted on 11/02/2001 10:35:13 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
I have no idea which agenda you are pursuing and have no interest in Latin Mass cult wars, but "Inside the Vatican" is a "fringe group" in your lexicon?
What has Inside the Vatican said? It cites “sources” and “rumors” but for certain things, but it doesn’t claim to have interviewed St. Lucia. It does not say she said that the Third Secret has not been fully revealed. It also provides the official responses, which deny these rumors. It is reporting that a controversy exists, as it should, but we should evaluate that controversy based on the evidence available. I tried to give it to you so that you could evaluate it without my “agenda.” I’m sorry if that isn’t good enough.

Dominus Vobiscum

patent  +AMDG

82 posted on 11/02/2001 10:37:14 AM PST by patent
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
Bump. Patent has linked you with "fringe groups" in a post.
I happen to like proud2bRC a great deal, and do not think him in the “fringe” of Catholicism. So far as I know, he and I get along quite well. And if I wish to call him “fringe” I will do so directly. I would like to request that you not put words in my mouth insulting someone who’s company I enjoy.
Not sure what is going on here or which orthodoxy group trumps which in this game. I just wanted to know whether the current Sr. Lucy update was verified.
Sr. Lucia has not publicly addressed the issue. To that extent it is not verified either way. I think on the threads you’ve been linked to, and the materials posted above (Remnant, letter, and translation) you have everything I am aware of, not that I matter.

Dominus Vobiscum

patent  +AMDG

83 posted on 11/02/2001 10:42:01 AM PST by patent
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To: patent
No idea where this is going. I asked a question about the Third Secret. You brought up the "fringe groups" as best as I can tell. Sorry to have touched the area.
84 posted on 11/02/2001 10:45:50 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: patent
First of all, the links he [proud2brc]gave originated, as I said, from the fringe groups.

This is true. The Remnant is intricately associated with Fr. Gruner. The whole crowd (The Remnant, Catholic Family News, Fr. Gruner) was responsible for the "We Resist you [John Paul II] to Your Face" manifesto. I do not trust the Remnant nor Catholic Family News nor Fr. Gruner.

I did not post the original Sr. Lucia thread. If I had, I would have placed an editorial comment on the original post regarding my concerns about the source. I first saw the report on The Diocese Report (which is run by a personal friend of mine, who borders on schismatic traditionalist.)

Inside The Vatican is a superb, trustworthy source, not to be confused with the schismatic tending sources noted above.

85 posted on 11/02/2001 10:47:30 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
I first saw the report on The Diocese Report (which is run by a personal friend of mine, who borders on schismatic traditionalist.)
I had wondered if you knew him, geography being what it is; as well as my understanding that he attends the Indult near you. (don’t know that for sure, you obviously know better).
Inside The Vatican is a superb, trustworthy source, not to be confused with the schismatic tending sources noted above.
True. And I find its article a great deal more balanced. My statement was inaccurate so I agree that it should have been worded differently.

patent  +AMDG

86 posted on 11/02/2001 10:53:14 AM PST by patent
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi; patent
Bump. Patent has linked you with "fringe groups" in a post. Not sure what is going on here or which orthodoxy group trumps which in this game.

LOL! My own bishop has linked me with fringe groups. He might be right. I hang out with faithful orthodox Catholics. Very frings here, very countercultural.

I attended a big dinner here several years ago, at which my bishop and many priests were present.

The guest speaker, a crusty old Catholic priest from upstate New York, said we were living in hard times.

"Keep one eye on your bishop, and one eye on your Pope. If your bishop goes against your Pope, close that eye!"

The crowd LOVED it. My bishop didn't.

Of course, "close that eye" goes as well for the schismatics, the libs, the prots, the pop cons, the homosexual lobby, the feminists, etc.

Notice Mother Angelica is wearing an eye patch? Wonder if that one is for the entire NCCB?!?

87 posted on 11/02/2001 10:57:20 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
I don't know enough about the controversies which divide orthodox traditionalists from their schismatic rivals to offer any sort of educated opinion, although I see the relevance now. I'll just guess that if Fulton Sheen or Cardinal Mindzenty were alive liberals would call them by some sorts of names.

My curiosity was piqued by the topic. Having seen the text of the Third Secret in the past, the descriptions of the dead bodies of Christians seemed timely and strangely relevant to the unfolding events. Whether this is plausible in the theology of prophecy, I'll leave to the experts. If there are any.

88 posted on 11/02/2001 11:05:32 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Aquinasfan
I don't believe the same way you do, Aquinas. I know Catholics revere Mary and believe as the mother of Jesus she intercedes for us. The bible doesn't indicate that and I put the bible above church doctrine. Everyone has the perfect right to believe the way they wish about Mary, I just don't believe she has any power. Only God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have the power. Love, Mary
89 posted on 11/02/2001 11:08:25 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: Aquinasfan
I don't believe the same way you do, Aquinas. I know Catholics revere Mary and believe as the mother of Jesus she intercedes for us. The bible doesn't indicate that and I put the bible above church doctrine. Everyone has the perfect right to believe the way they wish about Mary, I just don't believe she has any power. Only God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have the power. Love, Mary
90 posted on 11/02/2001 11:08:28 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: patent
I had wondered if you knew him, geography being what it is; as well as my understanding that he attends the Indult near you.

Yes, he and I have fought over schismatic interpretations of traditionalism for a long time, bitterly at times, but always over a few beers, and always (well...usually) ending as good friends still.

Because he occasionally posts my articles from the Wanderer National Catholic Weekly, another web site, Traditional Catholic Relections and Reports, has now banned my writings because I am "associated with" The Diocese Report, that links to schismatic traditionalists.

Just can't win some days...

91 posted on 11/02/2001 11:16:04 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: patent
I had wondered if you knew him, geography being what it is; as well as my understanding that he attends the Indult near you.

Yes, he and I have fought over schismatic interpretations of traditionalism for a long time, bitterly at times, but always over a few beers, and always (well...usually) ending as good friends still.

Because he occasionally posts my articles from the Wanderer National Catholic Weekly, another web site, Traditional Catholic Relections and Reports, has now banned my writings because I am "associated with" The Diocese Report, that links to schismatic traditionalists.

Just can't win some days...

92 posted on 11/02/2001 11:16:14 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Marysecretary
I put the bible above church doctrine

The Bible doesn't indicate that either....

93 posted on 11/02/2001 11:32:13 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Because he occasionally posts my articles from the Wanderer National Catholic Weekly, another web site, Traditional Catholic Relections and Reports, has now banned my writings because I am "associated with" The Diocese Report, that links to schismatic traditionalists.
That’s Stephen Hand’s group right? He seems pretty reactionary, in the sense of reacting away from the Schismatic Traditionalists. The funny thing is that he has written for the Wanderer at times, as do you. One would think the Wanderer was a valid judge of who was on the Remnant side of things and who wasn't.

Wasn’t Hand fully schismatic at one time? I think many people returning from that fold overreact against them.

patent  +AMDG

94 posted on 11/02/2001 11:35:01 AM PST by patent
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To: patent
The funny thing is that he has written for the Wanderer at times, as do you. One would think the Wanderer was a valid judge of who was on the Remnant side of things and who wasn't. Wasn’t Hand fully schismatic at one time? I think many people returning from that fold overreact against them.

Yes, he was schismatic, and yes he subsequently wrote for the Wanderer. He turned away from the schismatic traditionalists, and now by and large he does good work with his web site. He tends to judge others too harshly when it comes to what he perceives to be schismatic or hypercritical tendencies. My final falling out with him was over an investigative report I was working on regarding an otherwise good orthodox Catholic university.

95 posted on 11/02/2001 12:14:36 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: proud2bRC
Good of you to post this prophetic analysis.

As far as the Third Secret of Fatima or any recent correspondence between Sister and the Holy Father is concerned, we waste time and effort trying to peer behind the veil on this subject.

There are other cities whose prophetic messages involving the Blessed Virgin are clear: Akita, Japan; Betania, Venezuela, and Kibeho, Rwanda. Find out about those if you are frustrated in trying to understand the details of Fatima. God always finds a way to get his message out.

My message -- my purely personal and unofficial message -- is that every Christian should pray against the spirit of murder and the spirit of massacre that is overtaking Islam everywhere. There is coming a great slaughter of Christians the world over -- and the Muslims could care less about the differences between Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants.

Arm yourself with prayer. If you are Catholic, you have daily Mass, Adoration, the Rosary, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, the Chaplet of St. Michael. If you are Orthodox you have many rich resources from the Jesus Prayer to the Akathist Hymn with which you can battle Evil. If you are Protestant, pray your Bible -- Psalm 91 on behalf of Christians everywhere, Ephesians whole armor of God for Christians everywhere. Plead the Precious Blood of Jesus for Christians and for America.

After committing yourself to Prayer, if you have responsibility for children or other persons, arm yourself with a weapon. Get well trained in the use of that weapon, and practice absolute security and safety in the storing of such a weapon. If you do not have time for proper training, do not take up a weapon you do not know how to use effectively. Better to keep the money at your disposal for other needs.

Prepare your homes with large supplies of water, food, medicines, food for pets, food for neighbors -- enough to last from three days to three months -- at least. Obtain whatever medicines you might need in a three month period.

Finally, pray against the spirit of betrayal that moves wide and deep through the nations of the world and within certain sectors of the American government -- those sectors are increasingly in plain view. Pray that Saudi does not betray us by using its Air Force against our Armed Forces especially the Navy. Pray that the Chinese are not masquerading in waters nearby as ships of other nations only to launch an assault on America one day.

For some it will sound as if I am saying the sky is falling. But for others this may be the word needed so they will begin taking action.

96 posted on 11/02/2001 12:27:07 PM PST by father_elijah
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To: patent
Many thanks for the Bump, patent. God bless.
97 posted on 11/02/2001 12:47:26 PM PST by father_elijah
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To: father_elijah
My message -- my purely personal and unofficial message

Superb message, regardless.

I've done some of these things 100% already.

I'm working on (and failing miserably) many of the spiritual ones ;-)

And tonight, I'm returning to my local gun shop. Thanks for the kick in the seat o' the pants.

98 posted on 11/02/2001 12:57:48 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Marysecretary
I put the bible above church doctrine.

The church is the "pillar and foundation of truth."
-The Bible (1 Tim. 3:15)

99 posted on 11/02/2001 1:05:04 PM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: JHavard; Havoc; OLD REGGIE; Iowegian; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; the808bass; is_is...
FYI
100 posted on 11/02/2001 1:07:28 PM PST by RnMomof7
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