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Gun Control After September 11
FOXNEWS ^ | Friday, November 2, 2001 | Glenn Harlan Reynolds

Posted on 11/02/2001 9:09:31 PM PST by Scalia Rules

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:31:31 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

"I think all women oughta carry a cell phone and a three-fifty-seven. Loaded." So declares a woman interviewed by The New Republic's Michelle Cottle.

That statement seems to sum up the post-Sept. 11 attitude toward gun control. Things were already tough for the gun-control movement. Convinced that Al Gore's strong anti-gun stance had cost the Democratic Party the 2000 election, the Democratic Leadership Council had already called for a softer line on gun control. Bill Clinton and former White House spokesman Joe Lockhart had pronounced Gore's stance a mistake. Meanwhile, product-liability suits brought against gun manufacturers were failing miserably in courts from New York to California.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


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1 posted on 11/02/2001 9:09:32 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Scalia Rules
"I think all women oughta carry a cell phone and a three-fifty-seven. Loaded." So declares a woman interviewed by The New Republic's Michelle Cottle

Tsk, tsk. I suggest a Colt .45. If she's gonna shoot 'em, might as well send his ass across the street.

2 posted on 11/02/2001 9:21:43 PM PST by Rightwing Canuck
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To: Rightwing Canuck
.45's are B.S.

"One shot stopping power" is B.S. To paraphrase Twain, the safest place to be when one's pointed at you is directly in front of it.

9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so.

3 posted on 11/02/2001 9:27:56 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: *bang_list
Bang
4 posted on 11/02/2001 9:28:16 PM PST by AStack75
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To: Scalia Rules; *bang_list
Bumped to the bang_list for easy searching on Second Amendment topics.

Click here to search the bang_list.

5 posted on 11/02/2001 9:28:55 PM PST by Fixit
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To: Scalia Rules
Professor Reynolds has an excellent and entertaining weblog, that should be a regular visit by enlightened Freepers.
6 posted on 11/02/2001 9:29:45 PM PST by NonZeroSum
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To: Fixit
Thanks. I might have had mistaken it for a pornography site instead.
7 posted on 11/02/2001 9:30:33 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Scalia Rules
Hehe ok, I was just kidding :) When I read that line I remember the time I asked my dad what would happen if someone was shot point-blank with a .45, and he said his ass would be across the street. He hardly ever says something like that so it stuck with me.

I actually know very little about firearms, though I most definately support the right to own them. I'm more of a sword man myself.

8 posted on 11/02/2001 9:31:31 PM PST by Rightwing Canuck
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To: NonZeroSum
Prof. Reynolds is THE Man on the Second Amendment. I am a lawyer myself (actually, I get sworn in to the Illinois bar next Thursday) , but I don't hold it against Reynolds that he's a Yale Law alum.
9 posted on 11/02/2001 9:33:16 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Scalia Rules
Convinced that Al Gore's strong anti-gun stance had cost the Democratic Party the 2000 election...

They're right to be convinced. Forty-seven percent of the people that voted in November 2000 were gun owners, and I doubt very many of them chose Gore.

10 posted on 11/02/2001 9:33:21 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Rightwing Canuck
Never bring a sword to a gunfight....spokeshave
11 posted on 11/02/2001 9:35:22 PM PST by spokeshave
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To: spokeshave
Never bring a sword to a gunfight....

What if it's really shiny?

;)

12 posted on 11/02/2001 9:36:51 PM PST by Rightwing Canuck
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To: Rightwing Canuck
Swords certainly have a more noble lineage. In the days of yore, an apprentice warrior would train for years, ever seeking to develop a relationship with his steel. But then firearms came along, and any farm boy with a good eye and steady finger could drop you from 100 yards out.

I am a firearms enthusiast, myself, but I think I'd concede that the decline of the sword, and the attendant advent of firearms did have a decivilizing effect on society.

13 posted on 11/02/2001 9:38:38 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Scalia Rules
I agree. The knightly ideal took a nose dive once the cold steel of the sword was taken out of the picture.
14 posted on 11/02/2001 9:41:40 PM PST by Rightwing Canuck
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To: spokeshave
LOL! I like swords, to, but chances are you're not gonna have a sword handy to defend yourself if you get mugged.

It is here that things seem to have changed the most. Americans have learned that being harmless does not guarantee that they will not be harmed: in fact, it seems that terrorists (like ordinary criminals) actually prefer victims who cannot strike back.


People are only figuring this out, now?

Anyway, the writer of the article brings up a lot of good points. I also liked the part about how the gun control crowd hate American manliness. In other words, they want people to be sheep. Victims. They're victims, themselves, and can't stand it when others show the strength of character that they themselves don't possess. Seeing that strength in others shames them. And rather than trying to better themselves, they seek to tear down others to their level.
15 posted on 11/02/2001 9:46:54 PM PST by Green Knight
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To: Scalia Rules
, according to Michael Barone, "It will now be very hard–I would say impossible–for any intellectually honest judge to rule that the Second Amendment means nothing."

Its always been a dishonest arguement.

16 posted on 11/02/2001 9:47:41 PM PST by GeronL
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To: Scalia Rules
indeed, though it is little publicized, much of the gun-control movement’s financial and institutional support comes from non-evangelical Protestant denominations

No doubt members of the National Council of Churches.... if I only had the cash to create a real church!

17 posted on 11/02/2001 9:51:22 PM PST by GeronL
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To: Scalia Rules
I just took my 14 year old son to the NRA range tonight to shoot his new Ruger 22. Celebrate freedom!
18 posted on 11/02/2001 9:55:47 PM PST by JeepInMazar
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To: Scalia Rules
Twain was talking about the infamous "pepperbox" pistol, the black powder cap and ball pistol that had multiple barrels sticking out front, because they often exploded. Had nothing to do with the caliber.

The venerable .45 round is a MUCH better defensive round over the 9mm. True, our military went to the 9mm, but sadly it was not due to any military trials against the .45 whatsoever! In fact, the 9mm was around when we first chose the Colt .45 1911. Nothing in a pistol cartridge for a semi-auto at that time tested as well against live or dead flesh as the .45 round.

Why did we go to 9mm? Because we have women in the military now to consider I recon. Perhaps they felt the .45 was too much gun? Why do the FBI HRT carry the Springfield 1911 in .45? Why do our Special Forces carry H&Ks USPs in .45? There are plenty of great firearms out there in 9mm... -Must be their need for killing quickly.

I have nothing against the 9mm, and have owned several. But if I'm going into a fight, it's with a .45, and that's if I can't carry a rifle.

19 posted on 11/02/2001 9:57:09 PM PST by Dogbert41
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To: Scalia Rules
The doggies went for the 9mm because they can't shoot worth diddly, and 15 rounds increases the chances of hitting Something, rather than 7 rounds and the RECOIL!, Heavens to Murgatroyd!

Note, if you will, that when cops have the chance to choose and are not hamstrung by PC minded town councils, they prefer John Browning's best. Even the fibbies have gone back to the .45 as a carry piece.

I can personally attest that I watched a Spook, (the Agency kind) put a 30-some round magazine from a 9mm Swedish K into a goober, and wound up caving the guy's head in with the pistol grip and a ballbat swing.

The "spray and pray" method is only good in Hollyweird. Remember, they also invented the sideways 'gansta' hold, which is the best way to tell who is going to win a gunfight.

20 posted on 11/02/2001 9:57:46 PM PST by jonascord
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To: Scalia Rules
9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so

Oh goodie, a caliber war, can I join in? The Army is begining to recognise it's error. Special Ops guys are switching to .45s, H&Ks pretty much like the USP. 9mm overpenetrates, even with expanding bullets. As for the higher magazine capacity, that's for those who intend to miss alot. Even the police have turned away from the 9. Mostly they have gone to the .40 S&W, but many allow .45s too. Nothing wrong with .357 BTW, although like the 9, it will tend to overpenetrate. Big and slow is the real way to go, that way even if the bullet fails to expand, say the cavity is stuffed with material from a winter coat, you still make a nice big hole, and deposite most of the energy in the target.

21 posted on 11/02/2001 9:59:52 PM PST by El Gato
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To: Dan from Michigan
FYI
22 posted on 11/02/2001 10:01:23 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: Scalia Rules
Maybe it’s the Taliban, with their nasty hostility to women. Maybe it’s just that this is the first major attack on the United States since feminism took hold. But whatever it is, the gloves are off, and the Rosie O’Donnell culture of passivity is dead. That means that efforts to stigmatize gun ownership as promoting violence, or vigilantism, or unseemly masculinity, are now sure to fail. That’s bad news for the gun control movement. But it’s worse news for the Taliban.

23 posted on 11/02/2001 10:02:06 PM PST by samtheman
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To: AnnaZ; Mercuria
FYI
24 posted on 11/02/2001 10:02:55 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: Scalia Rules
Prof. Reynolds is THE Man on the Second Amendment. I am a lawyer myself (actually, I get sworn in to the Illinois bar next Thursday) , but I don't hold it against Reynolds that he's a Yale Law alum.

The funny thing is that it's not exactly his specialty (or at least it didn't used to be). He's actually one of the pre-eminent experts on space law.

25 posted on 11/02/2001 10:02:56 PM PST by NonZeroSum
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Scalia Rules
I think I'd concede that the decline of the sword, and the attendant advent of firearms did have a decivilizing effect on society

Actually the advent of the firearm, along with the ability of the yeomen to stand against the armored noble, probably helped usher in the era of the rights of everyman, rather than just the rights of nobles. While militia like entities did exist before firearms, it was only the advent of the relatively inexpensive and easy to use firearm, that made mininmally trained militia armies effective on the battlefield. One they had the guns, how could the fuedal Lords continue to subjegate them? Being civilized is all fine and good, but being free is much better.

27 posted on 11/02/2001 10:06:06 PM PST by El Gato
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To: amom; Bump in the night
FYI
28 posted on 11/02/2001 10:07:50 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: Dogbert41
If you prefer the .45, then my hat is off to you, sir. But for most people, it is a modest claim to say that the 9mm should be the caliber of choice. It is undeniable that it is a more accurate pistol, and any benefits the .45 might have in comparison are greatly exceeded by the costs in most civilian encounters. By the way, Beretta rules.
29 posted on 11/02/2001 10:08:10 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: jonascord
Yes, I love how people are so TERRIFIED of fully automatic weapons. Makes me laugh in thier face. Give me a Semi Any day, one shot, one kill. An auto is really only good to keep somebodies head down, unless you're really close, then you'd saw them in half. I think this is a little overkill.

Although, I must admit, fully auto is a ball, it is just real hard to hit what you're aiming at!! LOL
30 posted on 11/02/2001 10:08:22 PM PST by Aric2000
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To: TERMINATTOR
FYI
31 posted on 11/02/2001 10:09:12 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: Scalia Rules
Good article!

Don't worry, the men have always been here. They had to hide for a while, but they are here, and they are in Afganistan killing our enemies. The left never understood the male animal. We live, dormant if we must, till we are needed. Then, it's Katie bar the doors! The left thought they had beaten down the American male........Wrong again! The American male just ripped off his 3 piece suit and exposed his Superman cape! It's time to defend this Republic, it's time to fight.............Let's Roll!

I don't say this to brag, I say this because I'm sick and tired of "it must be a MAN thing". You can bet your a$$ it's a man thing, and a man will finish this job! When this whole thing is over we'll bury another unknown soldier in Arlington National Cemetary. It'll be a man. Don't you liberals bit$h, it'll be a man because men fought this war, as they did every other nasty war that ever came down the pike. PC doesn't work in war, just the pride, honor, and courage of a man, a patriot, an AMERICAN! Get used to it people, men are back....and they are pissed!

32 posted on 11/02/2001 10:09:20 PM PST by timydnuc
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To: Aric2000
"Give me a Semi Any day, one shot, one kill."

my favorite weapons in the Navy (I was in charge of ship armory) 45 and Thompson (on semi auto)
plus 45 and Thompson use same ammo
33 posted on 11/02/2001 10:12:43 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: El Gato
"Actually the advent of the firearm, along with the ability of the yeomen to stand against the armored noble, probably helped usher in the era of the rights of everyman, rather than just the rights of nobles. While militia like entities did exist before firearms, it was only the advent of the relatively inexpensive and easy to use firearm, that made mininmally trained militia armies effective on the battlefield. One they had the guns, how could the fuedal Lords continue to subjegate them? Being civilized is all fine and good, but being free is much better."

The people, sir, are a beast. Liberty is not found in the herd--for it represents the greatest threat to freedom. That is why we catalogue our sacred rights, the right to Keep and Bear arms among them, in a Bill of rights, where they can be secure from the encroachments of transient majorities.

34 posted on 11/02/2001 10:15:57 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: timydnuc
"The American male just ripped off his 3 piece suit and exposed his Superman cape!"

With all due respect to President Bush and the job he is doing to help us win this war.


35 posted on 11/02/2001 10:19:05 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: NonZeroSum
"The funny thing is that it's not exactly his specialty (or at least it didn't used to be). He's actually one of the pre-eminent experts on space law."

There aren't many attornyes or academics who specialize in in "space law"--which I take it is concerned primarily with puzzling jurisdictional dilemmas. A good many of his journal articles deal with the Second Amendment and/or federalism.

36 posted on 11/02/2001 10:23:16 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: JeepInMazar
Ruger 10-22? Great rifle, good mags, very quiet. My son likes to shoot it very much, at cans and balloons especially.
37 posted on 11/02/2001 10:23:56 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Scalia Rules
There aren't many attornyes or academics who specialize in in "space law"--which I take it is concerned primarily with puzzling jurisdictional dilemmas.

Well, it's actually more than that--it's about whether or not things like sovereignty and property rights even exist, and what their their limits are. But not many work on it because it's an arcane topic, currently. I would assume that in his case it's a labor of love.

A good many of his journal articles deal with the Second Amendment and/or federalism.

But the only full book that he's written, AFAIK, is a seminal work on space law...

38 posted on 11/02/2001 10:27:15 PM PST by NonZeroSum
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To: Scalia Rules
Agreed... for women in general, that is. Virtually any gal can master a 9mm, and as the saying goes, better 1 hit with .22 than 6 misses with a .45
39 posted on 11/02/2001 10:31:17 PM PST by my trusty sig
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To: Dogbert41; El Gato; jonascord
A friend of mine was involved in the selection of the new 9mm in the 80s at a very....intimate level. He was a firearms instructorduring the testing, and had to train "recruits" on the various pistols in the competition, and then all the results were evaluated.

According to him, the 9mm was scrapped because too many of the "crack troops" could not even rack the slides on the .45, and were afraid to fire it, it was flinch city for the ladies. In the "new Army", ladies have to be gate guards etc, so the .45 had to go. That's from the horse's mouth, from one who was in on the deal.

He also said that the SIG won every test, the Beretta was ulitmately picked out of NATO political considerations.

40 posted on 11/02/2001 10:31:50 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: NonZeroSum
God made men, Samuel Colt made them equal and the Liberal Democrats made them all criminals.

P.S. The reason the US Military went to 9mm was to standardize with NATO protocol. Besides, is my dream gun is a .45 Winmag. Gonna be my next gun....lol!

41 posted on 11/02/2001 10:31:58 PM PST by TaZ
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To: NonZeroSum
His tastes are very eclectic, that's for sure. And I still can't figure out there the heck he has all that time to surf the web and post comments on his web log all day. He's certainly Posnerian in that regard. I take it "NonZeroSum" is reference to the classic rejoinder to the Hobbesian argument for the State, no?
42 posted on 11/02/2001 10:33:08 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Scalia Rules; Squantos; harpseal
>>>It is undeniable that it is a more accurate pistol<<<

What have you been smoking?

43 posted on 11/02/2001 10:33:38 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Scalia Rules
I have not owned or fired a gun since the Army, where I sustained a permanent hearing loss, on the firing range. It seemed intelligent to not risk further damage, and I felt I could rely on the gubmint to protect me.

That changed, when Cheney said it was likely more people would be killed in the United States, than abroad, by terrorists. The intelligent thing changed to buying a gun, and learning about the best hearing protection I could get. My local gun store employee assured me that many other citizens are buying guns. I intend to go for concealed carry.

So I bought a Ruger P89, 9mm, mainly based on fairly low cost, to get started. Any recommendations about the best hearing protection? I have had tinnitus in both ears for 32 years, so I would like to not make it worse.

44 posted on 11/02/2001 10:34:29 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: my trusty sig
Mkae that SEVEN misses with the .45, and some nasty recoil to boot!
45 posted on 11/02/2001 10:35:10 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: my trusty sig
Make that SEVEN misses with the .45, and some nasty recoil to boot!
46 posted on 11/02/2001 10:35:31 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Scalia Rules
Sig rules
47 posted on 11/02/2001 10:36:38 PM PST by my trusty sig
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To: Travis McGee
Oh, gimme a break. Don't try to defend an undefendable position, i.e., that a .45 is more accuarate and reliable than a 9mm. If you prefer the .45, great. But don't tell me it doesn't have more drawbacks for the average firearm user--law enforcement and military included.
48 posted on 11/02/2001 10:39:16 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: my trusty sig
Beretta rules more.
49 posted on 11/02/2001 10:40:13 PM PST by Scalia Rules
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To: Travis McGee
I was telling someone on another thread that I've cycled every cartridge imaginable- the gamut of premium hollow points, FMJ, re-mfrs, aluminum blazers- and never had a malfunction, and I'm talking many, many thousands of rounds.

Sig rules!

50 posted on 11/02/2001 10:41:53 PM PST by my trusty sig
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