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12 U.S. DELTA MEMBERS WOUNDED ON RAID OF OMAR
Drudge ^ | 11/3/01

Posted on 11/03/2001 6:04:22 AM PST by Diogenesis

MAG: 12 U.S. DELTA MEMBERS WOUNDED ON RAID OF OMAR'S COMPLEX, THREE SERIOUSLY; PENTAGON RETHINKS 'SPECIAL FORCES OPERATIONS'

Seymour Hersh has filed yet another controversial report for coming editons of the NEW YORKER, publishing sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

In ESCAPE AND EVASION, Hersh claims: In the wake of a near-disaster during the assault on Mullah Omar's complex during the early morning of October 20th, the Pentagon has been rethinking future Special Forces operations inside Afghanistan.

Delta Force, which prides itself on stealth, had been counterattacked by the Taliban, and some of the Americans had had to fight their way to safety. Hersh has filed his report for the November 12, 2001 issue of the NEW YORKER, on sale Monday.

Twelve Delta members were wounded, three of them seriously.

The intensity and ferocity of the Taliban response "scared the crap out of everyone," a senior military officer tells Hersh.

The Delta team stormed Mullah Omar's complex, but found little of value, Hersh reports, and then, "as they came out of the house, the shit hit the fan," one senior officer says. "It was like an ambush. The Taliban were fighting with light arms and either [rocket-propelled grenades] or mortars." The team immediately began taking casualties and evacuated.

"The Delta team was forced to abandon one of its objectives: the insertion of an undercover team into the area and the stay-behind soldiers fled to a previously determined rendezvous point, using a contingency plan known as an E. & E., for escape and evasion," Hersh writes.


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1 posted on 11/03/2001 6:04:22 AM PST by Diogenesis
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To: Diogenesis
That "senior officer" should SHUT UP! Loose lips...
2 posted on 11/03/2001 6:07:34 AM PST by Bigg Red
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To: Diogenesis
Number one, nobody can confirm or deny this. Number two, Delta Force conducts very dangerous operations and only a fool would expect zero casualties. This is what is called war. In war, you take casualties.
3 posted on 11/03/2001 6:07:53 AM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Diogenesis
I wonder how tough the Taliban would be if a nuclear bomb is dropped on their asses?
4 posted on 11/03/2001 6:08:14 AM PST by Conservative Tiger
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To: Diogenesis
Giving comfort to the enemy... This kind of crap should never be published.
5 posted on 11/03/2001 6:08:44 AM PST by Dirk McQuickly
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To: Diogenesis
Balance Reuters, remember?? You ARE Replaceable,VEG~


6 posted on 11/03/2001 6:11:22 AM PST by Bad~Rodeo
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To: Diogenesis
I'm not sure I buy the "scared the crap" line...
7 posted on 11/03/2001 6:13:57 AM PST by Benrand
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To: Diogenesis
Gee, I wonder how they had time to take all that neat night vision video of equipment and ordnance while all this massive resistance was going on???

Next time send us back pictures of the dead Talliban bodies neatly stacked up ...that will put and end to this type of yellow journalism by people who are obviously enemies of the United States!!!

8 posted on 11/03/2001 6:14:57 AM PST by Ozymandias Ghost
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To: Diogenesis
So how did old Seymore find these people to 'interview them?' Did he go down to the homeless shelter and find them lurking there? Or did he sprout wings and fly out to them?
9 posted on 11/03/2001 6:15:28 AM PST by piasa
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To: Diogenesis
Hersh has done the best reporting so far on this operation. He has had a history of being able to tap sources at the operational level, whether in the CIA or military.

His point of view is generally from the perspective of those on the ground actually doing the work - not from the high level cover your ass policy types. I suppose many are going to be critical of his reports because they think he is somehow undermining the war effort - he is not. He is performing a valuable service by getting out the straight story from those who are actually doing the job (special forces, CIA, etc.) and who need to have those (Franks et. al.) in policy making positions to get their acts together.

10 posted on 11/03/2001 6:17:03 AM PST by Kenyon
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To: Diogenesis
If this report is true, I'm far more concerned that we have a whining senior officer in Delta Force than the fact the operation didn't go as well as planned. These guys are known as the cream of the crop, but this article makes them sound like a bunch of wimps - crying about how tough the mission was and how they were "scared". I'm taking this with a hefty dose of salt, especially considering it's from the New Yorker, hardly a voice of American pride.
11 posted on 11/03/2001 6:17:38 AM PST by over3Owithabrain
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To: Benrand
Check here for FreeRepublic thread Trading Blows: Seymore Hersh vs. Gen. Barry McCaffery on supposed US War Crimes in Iraq

Hersh's reporting has always been suspect.

12 posted on 11/03/2001 6:17:44 AM PST by Ditto
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To: Diogenesis
I just fail to see how they could be ambushed with Ac-130 gunships amd attack helicopters orbiting the place. This doesm't pass the smell test. I see how they could meet fierce opposition but ambushed?
13 posted on 11/03/2001 6:17:45 AM PST by Nov3
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To: Diogenesis
This must be the raid where the chopper crash landed in Pakistan. Three were seriously injured. 12 were on the chopper. In other words, Taliban report. New Yorker Mag sucks.(IMHO)
14 posted on 11/03/2001 6:18:23 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Bigg Red
Never mind- his info and terminology are not very 'Delta-Force-like')... do a search on Seymour Hersh and SDS (Students for a Democratic Society)... explains everything. Pinko hippy with ethics like Bill Clinton, trying to play the role of Jane Fonda.
15 posted on 11/03/2001 6:19:45 AM PST by piasa
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To: Bad~Rodeo
Thanks for the reminder. May we NEVER, ever forget. Hope you keep that pic handy.
16 posted on 11/03/2001 6:19:47 AM PST by Gracey
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: over3Owithabrain
You voiced my sentiment exactly. By the way, if this story is true, what would Delta expect from the Taliban? Harsh Language?
18 posted on 11/03/2001 6:21:28 AM PST by Smedley
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To: over3Owithabrain
I was thinking the same thing. I have a hard time believing some of this.
19 posted on 11/03/2001 6:22:51 AM PST by jbstrick
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To: Diogenesis
coming editons of the NEW YORKER

The New Yorker.

Is Tina Brown still running that left wing piece of crap?

I haven't picked it up since cancelling my sub a very long time ago.

20 posted on 11/03/2001 6:23:06 AM PST by angkor
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To: Diogenesis
The intensity and ferocity of the Taliban response "scared the crap out of everyone," a senior military officer tells Hersh.

I don't believe this for a minute.
If anything "scares the crap" out of our Delta Forces, we are truly lost.

21 posted on 11/03/2001 6:23:07 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: Kenyon
What's interesting to me is that only a few days after this supposedly happened, we began to hear on the so-called "crackpot" Web sites such as Debka of a movement on our part to enlist a huge Russian expeditionary force to go into Afghanistan next spring. This makes a lot of sense when you realize that we have been bombing from high altitude for so long and expecting to win all wars that way that we have probably neglected "ground war" scenarios. I know it may be demoralizing to some, but I wouldn't necessarily discount everything Hersh reports.
22 posted on 11/03/2001 6:23:19 AM PST by longleaf
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To: Diogenesis
Hersch sounds like the Taliban.
23 posted on 11/03/2001 6:24:19 AM PST by LaineyDee
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To: Diogenesis
The Taliban gave the Russians hell and finally ran them out.

But some people will tell you they are not a force to be reckoned with.

If you do think they are a force to be reckoned with you will be accused of siding with the enemy.

Go figure...

24 posted on 11/03/2001 6:24:53 AM PST by Aerial
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To: longleaf
I not only discount it, I condemn the crap out of it!
25 posted on 11/03/2001 6:25:49 AM PST by Cold Heat
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: jwalsh07
"Complete and utter HORSESHIT!"

From Seymour Hershit.

27 posted on 11/03/2001 6:27:18 AM PST by AF68
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To: Ditto
Hersh is a leftie, but I don't care. Point 1: I don't think he's making this stuff up. Point 2: The vagueness of the Pentagon's report on this encounter, and the speed with which it vanished from view, made me suspicious from the get-go that all had not gone according to plan.

I don't doubt the valor of the men going in on these hazardous missions, but neither do I expect 100% success. In examining the Pentagon's happy talk, Hersh is doing his job.

28 posted on 11/03/2001 6:28:13 AM PST by Romulus
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To: Kenyon
I believe Hersh was the author of the false story that George Bush (41) flew to Paris and negotiated
with Iran to keep the hostages in custody during the 1980 campaign.

He may be right in these current stories, but I don't trust him.

29 posted on 11/03/2001 6:29:06 AM PST by petbop
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To: Aerial
Screw the Russians! They got nuthin on our forces. The Taliban might get lucky but their ass is grass!
30 posted on 11/03/2001 6:30:00 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
Number one, nobody can confirm or deny this. Number two, Delta Force conducts very dangerous operations and only a fool would expect zero casualties.

And number three, "Delta Force does not exist."

31 posted on 11/03/2001 6:31:29 AM PST by TigerTale
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To: Tennessee_Bob
Ok, now I think I understand what you were talking about.
32 posted on 11/03/2001 6:33:54 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: petbop
All reports from intelligence sources have to be read with a grain of salt. Hersh passes on what he hears from lower level types. Sometimes its wrong.
33 posted on 11/03/2001 6:33:55 AM PST by Kenyon
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To: Romulus
Seymour Hersh, in my experience, has been spot on with some of his reporting. He has excellent sources. He has published items which I had never expected to see without bright red TOP SECRET/CAVEATS stamped top and bottom of each page, and NOT in an open forum.
34 posted on 11/03/2001 6:34:32 AM PST by Ax
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To: Diogenesis
Hersh is a pathetic, pathological LIAR!
35 posted on 11/03/2001 6:35:10 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: Publius6961
I don't believe this for a minute. If anything "scares the crap" out of our Delta Forces, we are truly lost.

Remember this fact of warfare. The first time you're shot at for real, it's scary. The second time it's not so bad. After 20+ years, it's just another day at the office.

For all the training the Delta Force has had, it has precious little real combat experience. The Taliban has been at this for 20+ years.

We're going to have to win this war the way wars are won. By the sustained use of massive force.

36 posted on 11/03/2001 6:35:46 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: Conservative Tiger
Tell us how you really feel Tiger!
37 posted on 11/03/2001 6:35:51 AM PST by ChinaThreat
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To: Kenyon
Hersh does have good sources, I just finished reading his book "The Samson Option". Pretty high-level contacts, atleast back in the late 80s.
38 posted on 11/03/2001 6:37:22 AM PST by ChinaThreat
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To: Diogenesis
"...assault on Mullah Omar's complex during the early morning of October 20th"

October 20th??? Wasn't October 20 the night of the raid which the Taliban insisted never took place? How did the Taliban "fight back" when they insist there WAS no raid the night of October 20? I suppose the video and the computers confiscated were faked.

IMHO, I think the number of Delta Force casualties refers to the helicopter crash in Pakistan, but this is war and there will be casualties.

39 posted on 11/03/2001 6:38:11 AM PST by cake_crumb
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To: Kenyon
Let me restate though that Hersh seems to have a bit of a liberal tinge in his reporting, I think he may be a bit anti-semite...i can't support this anti-semite aspect of this statement, just the angle of this Samson Option Book i read i thought...
40 posted on 11/03/2001 6:39:32 AM PST by ChinaThreat
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To: Diogenesis
The intensity and ferocity of the Taliban response "scared the crap out of everyone," a senior military officer tells Hersh.

Yeah, guess it was a Taliban military officer who told him this. Also, he was told that the Taliban fought back with the support of the finest Palestinian rock-throwers and hundereds of Pakistani camel-jockeys with fresh diapers on their heards!

41 posted on 11/03/2001 6:39:39 AM PST by knighthawk
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To: xzins
Flag!
42 posted on 11/03/2001 6:39:55 AM PST by TrueBeliever9
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To: Bigg Red
Thank you Bigg Red! These people are putting our best guys in danger with their bug mouths and desire to say something sensational! What jerks!
43 posted on 11/03/2001 6:41:07 AM PST by TrueBeliever9
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To: Diogenesis
In ESCAPE AND EVASION, Hersh claims: In the wake of a near-disaster during the assault on Mullah Omar's complex during the early morning of October 20th, the Pentagon has been rethinking future Special Forces operations inside Afghanistan

I have to question this article and its truthfulness. The "angle" of this article takes on a Taliban-propagandist tone. The U.S. military knows that special forces are going to engage in skirmishes and that casualties are likely. However, they are not going to stop special forces operations as the article implies, just because they have taken part in a firefight/ambush.

44 posted on 11/03/2001 6:41:14 AM PST by Jthro
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To: Diogenesis
in the monthly magazine, THE NEW YORKER???? suspect, to say the least.
45 posted on 11/03/2001 6:41:32 AM PST by YaYa123
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To: ChinaThreat
I read the Samson Option. IIRC, Hersh himself is Jewish.
46 posted on 11/03/2001 6:41:55 AM PST by longleaf
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To: Romulus
Delta is a secret force. We don't have a need to know and neither does Seymour. They will always take casualties, their job is high risk but the tone of this article i s meant to do one thing only, sow dissent with the military and their efforts and from what I've seen here, Ole Seymour is pretty damn good at it.
47 posted on 11/03/2001 6:42:41 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Diogenesis
"as they came out of the house, the shit hit the fan," one senior officer says. "It was like an ambush. The Taliban were fighting with light arms and either [rocket-propelled grenades] or mortars." The team immediately began taking casualties and evacuated.

Something is missing from this story, who was covering the rear of the entry team? Or was intelligence so bad that resistance wasn't believed to be present?

Not sure about this report at all, but there have been other references to fierce fighting during this incident, so I do believe there is something to it. Somalia and Blackhawk Down come to mind. We need to have good intelligence, good military leadership, and superior numbers of forces to prevent the same things from happening in Afghanistan.

48 posted on 11/03/2001 6:43:21 AM PST by Enlightiator
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: piasa; kristinn
I wondered that myself. I don't trust this guy. He ALWAYS horns in on every "event" with some sort of "inside knowledge".......and a lot of it turns out to be true. He's almost as bad as Vince Bugliosi, one of kristinn's biggest fans!
50 posted on 11/03/2001 6:43:35 AM PST by Howlin
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