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How the Chairperson of the Womens and Gender Studies feels about my free speech!!!!!
Mine | 11/3/01 | Charles Hall

Posted on 11/03/2001 12:13:13 PM PST by pitt

-----Original Message----- From: Charles Hall [ mailto:pitbull@accesstoledo.com ] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:13 PM To: dsharp@utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: Teach In The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!! DON'T E-MAIL YOUR TERRORIST LOVING CRAP TO ME AGAIN. Charles Hall JBarlow@UTNet.UToledo.Edu wrote: Mr. Hall, I am responding to your email (below) to Diana Sharp, who is secretary of the Department of Women's and Gender Studies at the University of Toledo, as well as a UT student. As chair of the department and a university professor, I want to point out to you that your response is inappropriate and harassing. It is your right as a citizen of this country to hold whatever beliefs you want; however, it is not your right to impose those beliefs on anyone else. It is the right of every citizen in a country based on free-speech to articulate their beliefs, and, therefore, the right of every member of the UT community to examine and discuss not only the events of September 11, but also the events leading to that horrible day, as well as the subsequent responses of the United States. Our teach-in is primarily informational; it is an attempt to provide a forum for students in particular, but also for staff and faculty, to learn more about U.S. and global histories and cultures, to discuss their concerns, and to ask questions. Many people in the UT and Toledo communities are experts in these areas, and we have invited some of them to speak and address the concerns and questions. It is not necessary for me to respond to your rude and harassing email, but I have chosen to do so in the hope that you can learn that hate-speech is never appropriate and that there are policies and procedures in place at UT, which you have violated. I assume that you will respect both my effort to respond to you and the fact that it would be a very bad idea for you to email me in return or ever again email anyone in this department. You can be assured that your email will be addressed according to those policies and procedures, which, by the way, follow federal guidelines. I have copied my email to Ms. Sharp, to the asscociate dean of the Humanities, the dean of the College of Arts and Sciences, and to the President of the University of Toledo. Dr. Jamie Barlowe Chair, Dept. of Women's and Gender Studies University of Toledo Toledo, OH 43606 (419) 530-2233; FAX (419) 530-4411 jbarlow@utnet.utoledo.edu


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I was sent this by the Chairperson of the Women's and Gender's Studies at the University of Toledo. I don't think you need to agree or disagree about the teach-in, but I would say that my free-of-speech is not welcome. I sent the original e-mail in response to the Womens and Gender Stuies doing a Teach-In on November 5 for the 9/11 terrorist attach. The Chairperson wanted to foster understanding about different points of view. Instead of what I said, I should have said I was sorry wee had tall building get in the way of "Freedom Fighters." Charles Hall University of Toledo Student
1 posted on 11/03/2001 12:13:13 PM PST by pitt (pitbull@accesstoledo.com)
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To: pitt
What was the content of your e-mail?
2 posted on 11/03/2001 12:18:35 PM PST by Rudder
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To: Rudder
Or, what did Hall's e-mail say?
3 posted on 11/03/2001 12:19:21 PM PST by Rudder
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To: pitt
Whenever you respond to a liberal with any sort of negative emotion, they use that to dismiss you.
If you attempt to argue facts, they talk you to death and won't stay on the subject. They use emotional knee-jerk reponses themselves but refuse to allow anyone who disagrees with them to do so.
Here, you got the 'sweet reason' and veiled threat response to an emotional e-mail. I would forget it.
4 posted on 11/03/2001 12:20:10 PM PST by Jim Scott
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To: pitt
Looks like ol' at JBarlow@UTNet.UToledo.Edu has definitely been a barely disguised cryptofascist. Not surprised at all to see her sell out to the Taliban so early.

I have a catalog showing the latest prices for burqas in Kabul. Bet she'd bet interested!

5 posted on 11/03/2001 12:20:14 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: pitt
but I have chosen to do so in the hope that you can learn that hate-speech is never appropriate and that there are policies and procedures in place at UT, which you have violated.

You got the relevant points from UT's policy to post? I don't think that there's any way that what you said violated university policy, unless saying "crap" is against university policy.

6 posted on 11/03/2001 12:20:51 PM PST by the808bass
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To: pitt
Post your email. what did it say
7 posted on 11/03/2001 12:21:17 PM PST by Beeline40@aol.com
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To: pitt
My orginal e-mail was: Subject: Teach In The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!!
8 posted on 11/03/2001 12:22:55 PM PST by pitt
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To: pitt
Womyn's Studies student can't take someone protesting her campus-wide email and runs crying to the department "chair", who proceeds to threaten you with "federal regulations".

They really teach these womyn to be "independent" and "stand up for themselves" don't they?

9 posted on 11/03/2001 12:25:08 PM PST by FOMTY
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To: pitt
To anyone who wants, just e-mail me and I will forward you all the original e-mails. PS: I can't get anyone to tell me if I am under investigation or not!!!!!
10 posted on 11/03/2001 12:25:56 PM PST by pitt
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To: pitt
That's all you said? ``You're either with us or with the terrorists?'.
11 posted on 11/03/2001 12:26:09 PM PST by Happygal
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To: pitt
I freaking hate liberals. They believe free speech only applies to them. How in the hell was your e-mail harassing???
12 posted on 11/03/2001 12:28:06 PM PST by j.cam
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To: pitt
To anyone who wants, just e-mail me and I will forward you all the original e-mails.

Why not just post them here?

13 posted on 11/03/2001 12:29:45 PM PST by dighton
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To: dighton
The Department of Women's and Gender Studies announces a teach-in about the violence of September 11. The entire university community is welcome to join in a full day of challenging dialogue and discussion, music, films, and educative workshops. The teach-in is designed to address a broad variety of questions and concerns generated by the violence of September 11 and the US response. The teach-in will be held Monday, November 5 from 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM in the "T-Section" of the Student Union. A detailed schedule follows. 9:00-10:00am - Foreign Policy / Debt Relief / NAFTA 10:00-11:00am - Student Organizations on Hate Speech 11:00-Noon - Hate Crimes and Bioterrorism Noon-1:00pm - Music and Protest Art Workshops 1:00-2:00pm - The Culture and Politics of Islam 2:00-3:00pm - Panel with Alumna Shamila Chaudray 3:00-4:00pm - Controlling Culture / RAWA 4:00-5:30pm - Wrap-Up Sessions For more information, please don't hesitate to call Diana Sharp, Secretary, The Department of Women's and Gender Studies. Contact information for replies to this message: Name: Diana K Sharp Department/organization: Women's and Gender Studies UT Location: UH 4260A Phone Number: 530-2233 Email Address: dsharp@utnet.utoledo.edu For detailed information about events, schedules, calendars, and other information, see the UT Events Page: http://www.utoledo.edu/events.htmlx
14 posted on 11/03/2001 12:36:24 PM PST by pitt
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To: pitt
Mr. Hall, I am responding to your email (below) to Diana Sharp, who is secretary of the Department of Women's and Gender Studies at the University of Toledo, as well as a UT student. As chair of the department and a university professor, I want to point out to you that your response is inappropriate and harassing. It is your right as a citizen of this country to hold whatever beliefs you want; however, it is not your right to impose those beliefs on anyone else. It is the right of every citizen in a country based on free-speech to articulate their beliefs, and, therefore, the right of every member of the UT community to examine and discuss not only the events of September 11, but also the events leading to that horrible day, as well as the subsequent responses of the United States. Our teach-in is primarily informational; it is an attempt to provide a forum for students in particular, but also for staff and faculty, to learn more about U.S. and global histories and cultures, to discuss their concerns, and to ask questions. Many people in the UT and Toledo communities are experts in these areas, and we have invited some of them to speak and address the concerns and questions. It is not necessary for me to respond to your rude and harassing email, but I have chosen to do so in the hope that you can learn that hate-speech is never appropriate and that there are policies and procedures in place at UT, which you have violated. I assume that you will respect both my effort to respond to you and the fact that it would be a very bad idea for you to email me in return or ever again email anyone in this department. You can be assured that your email will be addressed according to those policies and procedures, which, by the way, follow federal guidelines. I have copied my email to Ms. Sharp, to the asscociate dean of the Humanities, the dean of the College of Arts and Sciences, and to the President of the University of Toledo. Dr. Jamie Barlowe Chair, Dept. of Women's and Gender Studies University of Toledo Toledo, OH 43606 (419) 530-2233; FAX (419) 530-4411 jbarlow@utnet.utoledo.edu -----Original Message----- From: Charles Hall [mailto:pitbull@accesstoledo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:13 PM To: dsharp@utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: Teach In The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!! DON'T E-MAIL YOUR TERRORIST LOVING CRAP TO ME AGAIN. Charles Hall
15 posted on 11/03/2001 12:37:16 PM PST by pitt
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To: pitt
Hate-Speech??????????? You talk of not agreeing? You say that you have right to freedom of speech????? I have the right to my freedom of speech to tell you that it is hate speech to caddle to the terrorist who kill 6000 Americans. I repeat DO NOT E-MAIL ME YOUR CRAP. CHARLES HALL JBarlow@UTNet.UToledo.Edu wrote: Mr. Hall, I am responding to your email (below) to Diana Sharp, who is secretary of the Department of Women's and Gender Studies at the University of Toledo, as well as a UT student. As chair of the department and a university professor, I want to point out to you that your response is inappropriate and harassing. It is your right as a citizen of this country to hold whatever beliefs you want; however, it is not your right to impose those beliefs on anyone else. It is the right of every citizen in a country based on free-speech to articulate their beliefs, and, therefore, the right of every member of the UT community to examine and discuss not only the events of September 11, but also the events leading to that horrible day, as well as the subsequent responses of the United States. Our teach-in is primarily informational; it is an attempt to provide a forum for students in particular, but also for staff and faculty, to learn more about U.S. and global histories and cultures, to discuss their concerns, and to ask questions. Many people in the UT and Toledo communities are experts in these areas, and we have invited some of them to speak and address the concerns and questions. It is not necessary for me to respond to your rude and harassing email, but I have chosen to do so in the hope that you can learn that hate-speech is never appropriate and that there are policies and procedures in place at UT, which you have violated. I assume that you will respect both my effort to respond to you and the fact that it would be a very bad idea for you to email me in return or ever again email anyone in this department. You can be assured that your email will be addressed according to those policies and procedures, which, by the way, follow federal guidelines. I have copied my email to Ms. Sharp, to the asscociate dean of the Humanities, the dean of the College of Arts and Sciences, and to the President of the University of Toledo. Dr. Jamie Barlowe Chair, Dept. of Women's and Gender Studies University of Toledo Toledo, OH 43606 (419) 530-2233; FAX (419) 530-4411 jbarlow@utnet.utoledo.edu -----Original Message----- From: Charles Hall [mailto:pitbull@accesstoledo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:13 PM To: dsharp@utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: Teach In The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!! DON'T E-MAIL YOUR TERRORIST LOVING CRAP TO ME AGAIN. Charles Hall
16 posted on 11/03/2001 12:38:06 PM PST by pitt
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To: pitt
Sounds like a pretty reasonable reply to me. Is that your oriinal message at the top of the your post? Doesn't sound like a very convincing way to conduct an arggument - sounds more like an angry teenager lost for words and out of his depth. To answer these people you have to get smarter than that.
17 posted on 11/03/2001 12:38:57 PM PST by Gimlet
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To: pitt
That is the exchange of the e-mail? I hope my "Hate Speech" did not hurt any feelings!!!!!!!!!
18 posted on 11/03/2001 12:39:20 PM PST by pitt
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To: Gimlet
"Sounds like a pretty reasonable reply to me." Reasonable? Obviously you can give a damn about free speech. There was nothing harassing about his e-mail message.
19 posted on 11/03/2001 12:42:33 PM PST by j.cam
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To: pitt
Sounds like someone is trying to bully you. If the entirety of your e-mail message really was "The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!! DON'T E-MAIL YOUR TERRORIST LOVING CRAP TO ME AGAIN," I cannot see how they would be able to establish that you engaged in "hate speech" from this, even with the typical expression-chilling campus speech codes in place on many campus. You did not threaten any one, or use a slur (I cannot imagine that “terrorist-lover” is a slur against a protected class, but perhaps it is by now.)

I would like to offer a piece of advice, however. It always helps, in order to counter the unwarranted perception held by academics that only inbred knuckle-dragging hicks are politically conservative, to utilize a spelling and grammar checker whenever you communicate with them. This is especially desirable when you are debating them. As it is, you have given the professor a wonderful writing sample illustrating how ill-mannered and poorly educated conservative students can be. For an example from the other side, please see Front Page Magazine’s spelling and grammar contest.

20 posted on 11/03/2001 12:42:35 PM PST by ConservativeLibrarian
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To: pitt
Original Message----- From: Charles Hall [mailto:pitbull@accesstoledo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:13 PM To: dsharp@utnet.utoledo.edu Subject: Teach In The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!! DON'T E-MAIL YOUR TERRORIST LOVING CRAP TO ME AGAIN. Charles Hall

Well, it's *a bit* rude.

She's faculty, you're a student?

21 posted on 11/03/2001 12:43:09 PM PST by dighton
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To: pitt
I would head to the student newspaper to expose the intimidation they are trying out on you. Expose these cockroaches to the light!
22 posted on 11/03/2001 12:43:49 PM PST by dennisw
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To: pitt
Charles-- How did you come into possession of the original email from this "womyn"? Did you intentionally subscribe to some discussion list to which this person posted, or did she simply spam every email address she could get her fingers on at the UofT? If it's the latter, you may well have a legal case against her, and I suggest you fight like hell. All those irrelevant CCs mean they're out to get you, and want to at the very least put a permanent mark on your student record.

I would suggest: a) Asking for legal help from any Freepers. b) I would suggest alerting members of the news media as well, such as Bill O'Reilly, Newsmax.com, etc.

23 posted on 11/03/2001 12:44:09 PM PST by Timesink
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To: dighton
She appears to be a lowly secretary, not a faculty member. They're out to get this kid, and I think we need to help him.
24 posted on 11/03/2001 12:45:39 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Timesink
The e-mail came over as a general spam through the uniserity e-mail server. I have sent it to the local media but no reply.
25 posted on 11/03/2001 12:47:46 PM PST by pitt
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To: dighton
When someone pushes controversial opinions they should expect people to be rude, and should not try to hinder free speech.
26 posted on 11/03/2001 12:47:58 PM PST by j.cam
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To: pitt
You have freep mail!!!
27 posted on 11/03/2001 12:48:32 PM PST by Beeline40@aol.com
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To: Timesink
The original e-mail was sent out by what a appears to be the department secretary. The reply was from the Chairperson of the Department.
28 posted on 11/03/2001 12:49:39 PM PST by pitt
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To: j.cam
The answer was reasonable response to a rash and ill considered email.
29 posted on 11/03/2001 12:49:45 PM PST by Gimlet
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To: pitt
Be careful. You are fighting the wacademic Taliban. These people are pure evil hypocrites. Right now they have power over you. Make sure you get your degree.

By the way, I have noticed that Wacademics are very afraid of lawyers if it comes to that.

Good luck.

30 posted on 11/03/2001 12:50:57 PM PST by j.cam
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To: Gimlet
"The answer was reasonable response to a rash and ill considered email."

Explain to me then, how the speech was "harassing"?

31 posted on 11/03/2001 12:52:33 PM PST by j.cam
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To: j.cam
Probably not harassing by any legal standard but it was loud, crude, vulgar and said nothing of value or interest. When I am spoken to like that I consider the speech harassing. (Just a personal pov.)
32 posted on 11/03/2001 12:59:52 PM PST by Gimlet
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To: pitt
It is your right as a citizen of this country to hold whatever beliefs you want; however, it is not your right to impose those beliefs on anyone else.

You would think the left would drop that cliche already! Everyone knows they don't push their views on others!!

By the way, the correct title is Chairb*tch.

33 posted on 11/03/2001 1:01:33 PM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: j.cam; pitt
When someone pushes controversial opinions they should expect people to be rude, and should not try to hinder free speech.

OK. Lest I come off as acting "holier than thou," I'll admit to using ALL CAPS and naughty words on this very forum, more than once.

In practical terms, rudeness is usually conterproductive. It's almost suicidal when applied to a superior: student to faculty; employee to boss; and so on.

I'll leave discussion of rights to others. Good luck.

34 posted on 11/03/2001 1:03:51 PM PST by dighton
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To: pitt
Precisely what Federal regulations is this "person" referring to? I am not aware of any Federal regulations that would impact your e-mail excepting the First Amendment.

Regards,

35 posted on 11/03/2001 1:04:15 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine
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To: pitt
She could have just taken him off the mailing list. Special rights = American Revolution repealed.
36 posted on 11/03/2001 1:04:40 PM PST by Havisham
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To: pitt
If you get in trouble, FIRE is your best defense.
37 posted on 11/03/2001 1:06:26 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: pitt
"Dr. Jamie Barlowe Chair, Dept. of Women's and Gender Studies University of Toledo Toledo, OH 43606"

Dear Dr. Barlowe:

Blow it out your (obviously never-been-touched-by-a-male-of-the-species-and-probably-never-will-be) a**.

Sincerely,

Any Thinking American With a Semblance of a Brain

38 posted on 11/03/2001 1:06:36 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: pitt
I responded to your email. This is outrageous. Thanks. You did nothing wrong. Get a lawyer if they start anything.
39 posted on 11/03/2001 1:06:58 PM PST by Beeline40@aol.com
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To: pitt
So she's a feminist, huh?
Isn't that cute . . . .

"Womens and Gender Studies" - one of those totally useless, totally parasitic parking places for lazy lefties to park themselves for tenure and a big pension.

40 posted on 11/03/2001 1:06:59 PM PST by Hank Rearden
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I should elaborate, the "Foundation for Individual Rights in Education" defends all sorts of people, left- and right-wing, students and professors, against campus fascists.
41 posted on 11/03/2001 1:07:19 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: pitt
My orginal e-mail was: Subject: Teach In The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!!

your post would be a lot easier to follow if you were to have not just dumped it into one paragraph, as in:

My orginal e-mail was:

Subject: Teach In

The answer is simple: Your either with US or or With the Terrorists !!!!

42 posted on 11/03/2001 1:09:54 PM PST by dep
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To: pitt
She has been freeped.
43 posted on 11/03/2001 1:11:19 PM PST by Havisham
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To: Timesink
she's the chair of the department. i remember a few years ago right before the clinton election, she took voter enrollment forms to teach her english class. she was quite proud she had enlisted several. i hear she's a good teacher, quite liberal, of course.

of course, you don't ARGUE with those types because they only believe in their own free speech.

if that email went to all students, the kid has a right to ask them to desist, however inarticulate he is.

44 posted on 11/03/2001 1:12:25 PM PST by wildwood
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To: pitt
Her response was wrong. Your message was not "hate speech" or anything else for which you could be punished. As you correctly point out, we have a right to express ourselves in this country, no matter how crude and simplistic our expression may be.

"Your [sic] either with US or With the Terrorists"? I am sure you realize there are many people, especially conservatives and libertarians of the sort that frequent Free Republic, who harbor both complete antipathy to the terrorists and a healthy skepticism and suspicion about our own government authorities and many of their policies, particularly interventionist foreign policies. The notion that someone is a traitor if unwilling to go along with the consensus American point of view is a dangerous one because it can be turned back against us.

45 posted on 11/03/2001 1:12:41 PM PST by choosetheright
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To: pitt
Your premise "Your with us or your with the terrorists" is correct and applicable at this time. However, don't get MAD and e-mail. Your choice of words left them room to change the subject from treason to "hate speech", and marginalize you. It would have served better for you to politely inform said group that you had reported their activities to the F.B.I. Of course, nothing would be done, but you wouldn't be concerned with fallout, they might, and they would never contact you again.
46 posted on 11/03/2001 1:13:08 PM PST by Navy Patriot
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To: j.cam
My first e-mail was done in a hurry. I would not waste good words on this type of e-mail. I am a student, but not. an undergrad. I hold twoo Bachlors and a Masters. I am a part-time law student. I did not think in view of the 6000 Americans who died that it is permissible to dishonor by giving up to the terrorist. I will not give up, I will not be silenced, I would get kick out of school be fore the Chairperson will make me backdown. I work in enforcement and make a living keeping her and her friends from harm. I welcome the fight and I thank the support I have received from the forum.
47 posted on 11/03/2001 1:13:22 PM PST by pitt
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To: RightOnline
Dear Dr. Barlowe: Blow it out your (obviously never-been-touched-by-a-male-of-the-species-and-probably-never-will-be) a**. Sincerely, Any Thinking American With a Semblance of a Brain

oh, THAT won't make him look like a complete neanderthal, get him into more trouble, and comPLETELY screw him academically.

besides, she's divorced.

48 posted on 11/03/2001 1:15:51 PM PST by wildwood
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To: pitt
The e-mail came over as a general spam through the uniserity e-mail server.

I would get a copy of your college computer center's Accepable Use Policy and have a lawyer go over it with a fine-tooth comb. She may well have not only had no right to spam the entire university, it may be cause for her to lose her Internet access privileges, if not her job. Her access privs are purely up to the computer center, by the way; the academic side has no say.

If nothing else, I would be EXTREMELY surprised if your school's AUP did not fully allow you to respond to an unsolicited email, provided your repsonse was not in any way threatening or sexually harassing, which your response was not.

I have sent it to the local media but no reply.

I wouldn't count on them. Someone may bite, but they may not. (Though it would be best to call the local media's newsrooms directly, don't just send email. I've worked in several newsrooms and know that most emails to the general "contact us" mailbox can sit there for weeks before anyone even notices them.) And I again suggest emailing people like O'Reilly and/or anybody at Newsmax or CNSnews.com. One of them probably will bite.

49 posted on 11/03/2001 1:16:28 PM PST by Timesink
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To: wildwood
she's the chair of the department

No, the chair of the department came in after the lowly secretary ratted on pitt to her for daring to respond to the lowly secretary's unwanted drivel.

50 posted on 11/03/2001 1:20:07 PM PST by Timesink
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