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To: ArGee
Thank you for writing a post that was readable. I do not mind debating theology, but the kind of post you wrote before is for sitting down and discussing over coffee or tea, face to face, with Scriptures and concordances and TWOT and so forth. I am not the sort of person who can have that kind of discussion on a Web forum. I'm glad it amuses you. I hope you can forgive my weakness.

We don't have the luxury of sitting face to face over coffee or tea. But, what we do have is good enough to discuss things. Sure it takes time, but that's what 'saving' files is all about. I started my post yesterday morning, then saved it, since I had to leave. But when I got home I finished it.

Now, to this post that is of a length I can handle, you said:

God cannot

My faith is too big to ever utter that phrase.

Frankly, I would agree with you that God CAN do anything, but as I mentioned in the previous post, what point would be made in a God following Law???

You are right to say that the Scriptures did not claim that Messiah would be Messiah-el. That's why Yeshua praised Simon for that declaration. He said, "Man did not reveal this to you, but the Spirit of G-d." The twelve did not even realize it because it was a thing never heard of before. He was standing before them, but they were not able to understand until He opened their eyes after He was raised by Ha Shem from the dead. It was a totally new thing, but when you know the thing you can then go back and read Scripture again and understand that G-d did exactly what He promised He would do. I'm sure the people of G-d did not understand what G-d was telling Habakkuk about using an evil kingdom to accomplish His purposes until after the Diaspora. That is the way G-d's prophecy often works.

They also were unaware that Jesus had to suffer, die and be resurrected. In fact when Jesus told Peter about his coming death, Peter says No, we will not let it happen. See he was unaware of this alledged prophecy because it WAS NOT in the OT!!!!

You say that the Trinity does not make sense. I agree from my human perspective. But it makes even less sense to me to suggest that, as you say, God cannot. That phrase is beyond my comprehension. I cannot fathom it.

Correction. The Jewish faith says it... and let's not forget that Jesus was Jewish.... I merely pointed out that it makes no sense to have a God on earth for us the emulate, since God can do anything, particularly following the Law. It is more meaningful that a 'man' follow the Law and lead by example....

By the way, if you are a Jew (and you write like one - a compliment not an insult) you should have recognized the reference Yeshua made from the cross when He said, "Eli, Eli, lamach sabcthani" Perhaps the idea that G-d could abandon Himself doesn't make sense to you, but how about His reference to the Scripture that predicted the Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced...

What is the OLD TESTAMENT (Tanakh) verse for that???

while hanging there with his hands and feet pierced...

And being pierced by a sword as mentioned earlier in the 'archtypes'/enemies of God...

a form of capital punishment that the Jews did not ever use. That's right.... it was a form of death used by the Gentiles... for crimes against the state. I mentioned that and explained it in a previous post, but perhaps you didn't read that one either.

250 posted on 11/09/2001 10:04:42 AM PST by ET(end tyranny)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Warning! This post is long because I cut and pasted several verses from the Tanak into it, but you asked me for the reference. I included them in case you did not have your copy handy. My apologies if it is too long.

We don't have the luxury of sitting face to face over coffee or tea.

We may have one day. Until then I will not be using FR to go through the whole Tanak or Brit Chadashah with you. Bits at a time, yes. Again, please forgive my weakness.

Frankly, I would agree with you that God CAN do anything, but as I mentioned in the previous post, what point would be made in a God following Law???

The point is very carefully made in the Brit Chadashah. Before I quote it for you, perhaps you would tell me what point you thought was being made? (This is one of the reasons I don't like this forum - interaction is lousy. You can go look up the answer and circumvent my approach in sharing my faith.)

They also were unaware that Jesus had to suffer, die and be resurrected. In fact when Jesus told Peter about his coming death, Peter says No, we will not let it happen. See he was unaware of this alledged prophecy because it WAS NOT in the OT!!!!

Actually, the suffering was there. The death was there. The kingdom was there. What was not there was the long separation between the death and the kingdom. You and I are both impatient over the length of that separation when Messiah will come to reign and of the increase of the Kingdom there will be no end. Then justice will finally be established in the earth. Now I need the concordance I don't have, but I know you know where the suffering servant verses in Yesha-yahu are located.

Correction. The Jewish faith says it... and let's not forget that Jesus was Jewish.... I merely pointed out that it makes no sense to have a God on earth for us the emulate, since God can do anything, particularly following the Law.

Just for the sake of clarification - is that why you believe Messiah was sent, to give us an example to emulate? I will tell you that Christians do not believe this. We know we can never emulate Yeshua. We will target Him because his perfection is what we are asked for, but we know we can not be perfect because we are not G-d. What you have said is actually very close to blasphemy to Christians.

What is the OLD TESTAMENT (Tanakh) verse for that???

Psalm 22:1(NIV) For the director of music. To the tune of "The Doe of the Morning." A psalm of David. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?

See also from Psalm 22

7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."

Sound like what the leaders said while Yeshua was on the Cross?

17 I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.

More imagery of the crucifiction. As to the pierced hands and feet:

16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.

There is a reason Yeshua gave this Psalm to His followers as He died. Note particularly:

24 For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the LORD will praise him-- may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations.

Will you forgive me if I shout: AMEN! Hallelu-yah

And being pierced by a sword as mentioned earlier in the 'archtypes'/enemies of God...

Does that mean that everyone who has been pierced by the sword since the beginning of time is an enemy of G-d?

That's right.... it was a form of death used by the Gentiles... for crimes against the state. I mentioned that and explained it in a previous post, but perhaps you didn't read that one either.

I did not read what you wrote, but as you see I was aware of the fact. If this was not a Jewish form of punishment, why did David write about it?

Shalom.

251 posted on 11/09/2001 10:47:54 AM PST by ArGee
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