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Americans Would Have No Place to Go in Nuke Attack
news max ^ | Wednesday, Nov. 7, 2001 | Michael Betsch

Posted on 11/06/2001 1:40:41 PM PST by classygreeneyedblonde

While U.S. political leaders are prepared to survive a nuclear attack, protecting the general public from radiation apparently is not part of the equation.

According to civil defense advocates, there's enough room in America's remaining Cold War-era fallout shelters only for members of Congress and other select government officials.

According to Ed York, a pioneer in U.S. nuclear weaponry, "The possibility that some terrorist group will be able to steal or buy or fabricate a weapon on their own is going up all the time," and some say that makes preparedness all the more important

As a member of the top-secret Manhattan Project in the 1940s, York is familiar with the design and potential of nuclear weapons for devastation. York said he was "lucky" to have been present at every nuclear test, including the "first nuclear detonation, the first air drop, the first balloon carry to the first underground."

York says Americans need more than luck when it comes to surviving a nuclear attack.

He notes the federal government has not developed any fallout shelters or equipment to protect the general population from a nuclear attack since the Cold War ended

The only people concerned about protecting American citizens from such attacks, he said, have been a handful of civil defense advocacy groups including Doctors for Disaster Preparedness (DDP

DDP President Dr. Jane Orient said she was concerned by the lack of civilian fallout shelters. There is "no place that they [civilians] know about; no place that's prepared."

Dismantled Under the Clinton Administration

The reason for this lack of preparedness, Orient said, is because fallout shelters in "all 50 states" were stripped of their supplies (water, food, blankets) and equipment (radiation detectors) more than five or six years ago." Most of the contents and materials from the shelters were auctioned off or disposed of, she added.

However, Orient said a number of civil defense advocacy groups managed to acquire several radiation meters from the state of Arizona. Those rescued devices were manufactured in the 1950s, but are still considered state-of-the-art since nothing has come along to replace them.

Although Arizona, for example, has a few radiation meters, Orient said many more are needed to adequately protect the residents of that state. Such instruments would enable those affected to determine the level of radiation outside before leaving the shelter.

Orient offered a hypothetical scenario that shows the need for radiation detection equipment and access to working fallout shelters.

If that soot raining down in Brooklyn [from the World Trade Center] had been radioactive," Orient said, "there would be many thousands, maybe millions of people dying slow, agonizing deaths from radiation sickness that could have been prevented had people had access to shelter."

On Sept. 11, after the first airplane crashed into the World Trade Center, a steady stream of people crossed the Brooklyn Bridge by foot to escape Lower Manhattan

John Pike, a defense policy analyst and director of GlobalSecurity.org, added that "effective evacuation is very difficult" in an urban environment such as Manhattan. He also stressed the need for readily accessible and functioning fallout shelters, but dismissed the possibility of an impending nuclear attack on the U.S. by terrorists.

Rumors about missing 'suitcase' nuclear bombs have been floating around for over a decade," Pike said. "I cannot detect that the U.S. has taken these reports seriously or regarded as being credible

'There Are Thousands of Nuclear Weapons'

Orient strongly disagrees with Pike. "It's a very credible threat," she remarked. "There are thousands of nuclear weapons in the world. We don't know where all of them are

York, who once headed the NATO nuclear upgrade program, believes the probability of a single nuclear weapon being smuggled into the U.S. by a terrorist organization is "going way up because there are more countries that have stockpiles, especially countries like Pakistan, India and some of the republics of the former Soviet Union."

But York agrees it's unlikely that terrorists would detonate a suitcase bomb in the U.S. He said the bomb that a terrorist group would use is going to be "homemade, massive and either delivered by a ship or a pickup truck or something like that," he said.

According to Orient, it may be just a matter of time before terrorist organizations have the technology and capability to launch nuclear weapons against the U.S. She believes terrorists already are using "our stolen technology, or the technology that they were 'given' or 'bought' from us" to develop a sophisticated delivery system.

Orient wants Americans to realize that although nuclear weapons pose the threat of "awesome" devastation, such devastation is not "apocalyptic

She said she would continue to remind Congress and government officials that "the amount of damage that will be done and the ability to recover from it depends a lot on preparing in advance


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our stolen technology, or the technology that they were 'given' or 'bought' from us" to develop a sophisticated delivery system.

We all know it's Clinton who did this

1 posted on 11/06/2001 1:40:42 PM PST by classygreeneyedblonde
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
More importantly, how do you do the color fade on the font? Very cool.
2 posted on 11/06/2001 1:43:55 PM PST by Blueflag
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To: Blueflag
Yeah - DAMN cool!
3 posted on 11/06/2001 1:47:24 PM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: Blueflag
Military troops observe a nuclear test at the Nevada Test Site in November 1951
  Military troops observe a nuclear test at the Nevada Test Site in November 1951


VIPs observing the atmospheric detonation of a nuclear bomb at Enewetak in 1948

VIPs observing the atmospheric detonation of a nuclear bomb at Enewetak in 1948


The atmospheric detonation of a nuclear bomb

The atmospheric detonation of a nuclear bomb


A 21 kiloton underwater nuclear weapons effects test

 A 21 kiloton underwater nuclear weapons effects test


Underground Nuclear Explosion

Last American Underground Nuclear Explosion


Mini Nuke Explosion http://www.petermacnicol.com/IMAGES/nuke.gif

4 posted on 11/06/2001 1:48:28 PM PST by vannrox
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
Not to take away from your post - sorry, but the font fade is pretty impressive.
5 posted on 11/06/2001 1:48:32 PM PST by phasma proeliator
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
protecting the general public from radiation apparently is not part of the equation.

However the politicians, and liberal socialist have forgotten one thing. When the taxpayers are gone they will have no one to tax, and no one to rule over, so you don't have to worry about getting nuked. We will have all chiefs and no indians then.

6 posted on 11/06/2001 1:49:11 PM PST by chainsaw
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: phasma proeliator
Thank you.........
8 posted on 11/06/2001 1:54:02 PM PST by classygreeneyedblonde
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
We've pretty much known there are no provisions for civilians, for a long time now.
9 posted on 11/06/2001 1:54:59 PM PST by Selara
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To: vannrox
Let's hope we never see any of those
10 posted on 11/06/2001 1:56:27 PM PST by classygreeneyedblonde
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
You work too hard....................

I hope you have a macro for that. goodness.

11 posted on 11/06/2001 1:57:33 PM PST by Blueflag
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Selara
We've pretty much known there are no provisions for civilians, for a long time now.

Exactly...me kneelin' against the brick wall with my head between my knees at my old grammar school (circa 1956) ain't gonna save my head or my arse...DUH!

FMCDH

13 posted on 11/06/2001 2:01:51 PM PST by nothingnew
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
The secret to survival of a nuclear attack was known and implemented in the 50s, then discarded. Does everyone have their fallout shelter stocked up?

What fallout shelter, one might ask.

14 posted on 11/06/2001 2:02:30 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Blueflag; phasma proeliator
how do you do the color fade on the font? Very cool.

Step back from the font!

It's a radioactive byproduct of the deadly cobalt HTML.


15 posted on 11/06/2001 2:02:32 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: vannrox
Feeling a little unsafe here on the east coast. You would have to leave the country to be safe. Havent been to Canada in a few years but going to have to find out more. Its time for a permanent solution for the *&$^^%$ towelheads.
16 posted on 11/06/2001 2:03:21 PM PST by Lady GOP
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
Terrorists will nuke NY
17 posted on 11/06/2001 2:05:03 PM PST by Lady GOP
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To: nothingnew
Quick! Under your desk! Keep your back to the windows and cover your head with your arms. And no talking.

No talking during a nuclear attack.

18 posted on 11/06/2001 2:05:21 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
present at every nuclear test, including the "first nuclear detonation, the first air drop, the first balloon carry to the first underground

The first balloon carry ... now that's a scary thought that I hadn't considered for an enemy to deliver a weapon.

19 posted on 11/06/2001 2:05:41 PM PST by TexasChip
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
"Americans Would Have No Place to Go in Nuke Attack"

Wow, what news. You heard it first, hear at FR.

Actually, I always figured I'd be perfectly safe if I headed for me old grammas house. She keeps a lotta cheese in the cellar.

20 posted on 11/06/2001 2:07:27 PM PST by tpaine
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To: classygreeneyedblonde

21 posted on 11/06/2001 2:08:25 PM PST by Liberals are Evil Socialists!
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To: Blueflag
Little jumping dolls... Sort of dopey, eh? Probably a teenager.
22 posted on 11/06/2001 2:14:55 PM PST by Cobra64
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: nothingnew
I have this interesting book, "Nuclear War Survival Skills" by Cresson Kearny, published by Oak Ridge Laboratory in 1979.

It points out that in the former USSR and China, civil defense preparations have been such that about 80% of their population would survive all-out nuclear attack. We don't do so well in the estimates.

The point of the book is that nuke war is a thing which can be survived--it just takes knowledge and preparation. Under present circumstances, you're going to have to take care of yourself. You might want to get this US Govt. publication. It provides instructions for simple shelters, sanitary devices, air circulation pumps, and radiation detectors you can make from soup cans and tinfoil...real McGuyver stuff.

24 posted on 11/06/2001 2:18:45 PM PST by dasboot
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To: chainsaw
Here is what will probably happen. With all of us common people gone. Those with guns (the Military) will take control of those who don't have guns (Political Elites). And the Political Elites of the old world will become the Slave Class of the new world.

How ironic. That very thought brings a smile to my face.

25 posted on 11/06/2001 2:19:50 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Liberals are Evil Socialists!
Dont look into the light
26 posted on 11/06/2001 2:22:06 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: Lady GOP
Im heading northwest, YOU are even more downwind than I am!
27 posted on 11/06/2001 2:22:33 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: RightWhale
I remember well, RW.

They tried to make it a game, but even then I knew it was BS.

FMCDH

28 posted on 11/06/2001 2:23:04 PM PST by nothingnew
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To: Paul C. Jesup
That very thought brings a smile to my face.

Yeah me too.

29 posted on 11/06/2001 2:24:57 PM PST by riri
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To: Cobra64
No, not a teenager. Classygreeneyedblonde has been on the boards longer than I have. She just found a good set of macors on geocities.com I think.
30 posted on 11/06/2001 2:26:02 PM PST by Blueflag
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To: Blueflag
macors = macros

A mind is a terrible thing.

31 posted on 11/06/2001 2:26:53 PM PST by Blueflag
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
...fallout shelters in "all 50 states" were stripped of their supplies (water, food, blankets) and equipment (radiation detectors) more than five or six years ago."

If my math is correct, this author is talking about the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. Check his house in Chappaqua -- lots and lots of boxes were delivered there, the dirty RATS.

32 posted on 11/06/2001 2:27:26 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: dasboot
The point of the book is that nuke war is a thing which can be survived--it just takes knowledge and preparation.

I have some knowledge...#1 stay where I am, quasi protected by the rockies...I'll look into that book.

BTW, that was a great sub, dasboot...

FMCDH

33 posted on 11/06/2001 2:27:48 PM PST by nothingnew
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To: NAMMARINE
A friend who is survival-minded claims that air filters of the type that are needed for use in a home fallout shelter are not manufactured in the US, however they are manufactured in Finland, where there is an aggressive program to promote the construction of such shelters. Anybody have evidence that that is in fact true? The same probably goes with environmental radiation monitoring - wasn't the Chernobyl incident first brought to light in the Western world through monitors located somewhere in Scandanavia?
34 posted on 11/06/2001 2:28:49 PM PST by The Electrician
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To: TexasChip
HMMMM. The BadYear Blimp..............
35 posted on 11/06/2001 2:30:27 PM PST by tracer
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To: vannrox
The underwater nuke is most impressive. That one was set off just under the surface and most of the blast went upward. Several submarine hulks under the water were shaken, but not stirred. Then they set one off a little deeper . . .

The subs were crushed like rotten eggs at a political protest.

36 posted on 11/06/2001 2:31:13 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
Does everyone have their fallout shelter stocked up?

The plans for my house (ca. 1961) denote a "bomb shelter" in the basement. I don't think it's very good though. I use it for a plant room in the winter. It doesn't even have a door -- it's just a concrete block room. There's even spiders and mice in it. Ugggh

What should I put in it? Water? A port-a-potty? Dehydrated food?

37 posted on 11/06/2001 2:33:21 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: dasboot
"Nuclear War Survival Skills"

With a forward by Edward Teller, it is unrivaled.

Take with Potassium Iodide.

38 posted on 11/06/2001 2:33:23 PM PST by flamefront
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
It has been my understanding (perhaps mistaken) that the cheese hats worn by half the residents of the state of Wisconsin provide effective protection against some levels of radiation and against smaller explosions (tactical nukes?) of nuclear devices.
39 posted on 11/06/2001 2:34:53 PM PST by Revolting cat!
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To: dasboot
Just think what our survivability will be like if Algore and his ilk have their way. At least now there is a large enough segment of the population scattered out in the rural areas that it's almost certain some will survive. The enviro-elites want us all herded into metros where we will be sitting ducks for nuclear and biological attacks.
40 posted on 11/06/2001 2:34:54 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: flamefront
Take with Potassium Iodide.

And if you are allergic to iodine?

41 posted on 11/06/2001 2:35:52 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: classygreeneyedblonde
That font color business sure adds a lot of HTML code.
43 posted on 11/06/2001 2:36:30 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: nothingnew
Yeah, the fallout prediction map in the book shows the Rockies are a pretty safe bet, based upon the notion that they are largely devoid of strategic military targets. But the object of suitcase nukes is to poison populations. Any large city is a target. That changes things a little, I think.
44 posted on 11/06/2001 2:36:44 PM PST by dasboot
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: classygreeneyedblonde
Well forget where to go, what the hell would I wear for a Nuke Attack? Would a tux be too much? I think I have the perfect cumberbun...
46 posted on 11/06/2001 2:42:11 PM PST by Caipirabob
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To: afraidfortherepublic
What should I put in it?

The basement shelter itself doesn't need much. A cot, a few blankets. Supplies can be located nearby where you don't have to stay out long to get them. You might consider heaping dirt against the outside of the concrete block walls to increase radiation shielding, although this can be done after the attack. If you are below ground level and away from vertical walls that might accumulate radioactive dust, you should be fine. If the building itself is gone, you will want to put some timbers across the top of the concrete block walls and cover them with at least 3 feet of dirt for shielding. And maybe a tarp so it doesn't all turn to mud in case of rain. Your canned goods will be fine outside, but potable water will be a problem if you don't have much stored up. A well would be okay.

47 posted on 11/06/2001 2:47:02 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Revolting cat!
It has been my understanding (perhaps mistaken) that the cheese hats worn by half the residents of the state of Wisconsin provide effective protection against some levels of radiation and against smaller explosions (tactical nukes?) of nuclear devices.

Absolutely true.

48 posted on 11/06/2001 2:47:37 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: NAMMARINE
I take it from your posts that you think a nuclear event would be the end of all things. You should read "Nuclear Survival Skills". That attitude, and the consequence of it,is specifically addressed in the book. I'm not preaching at ya, just trying to help you out. I used to think the same way.

And, most cool, you can read it right from the link provided above!!

49 posted on 11/06/2001 2:49:24 PM PST by dasboot
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
Always turning heads, aren't you? :)
50 posted on 11/06/2001 2:49:24 PM PST by VA Advogado
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