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The Iraqi connection
The Observer (U.K.) ^ | 11/11/2001 | David Rose

Posted on 11/10/2001 5:30:44 PM PST by Pokey78

His friends call him Abu Amin, 'the father of honesty'. At 43, he is one of Iraq's most highly decorated intelligence officers: a special forces veteran who organised killings behind Iranian lines during the first Gulf war, who then went on to a senior post in the unit known as 'M8' - the department for 'special operations', such as sabotage, terrorism and murder. This is the man, Colonel Muhammed Khalil Ibrahim al-Ani, whom Mohamed Atta flew halfway across the world to meet in Prague last April, five months before piloting his hijacked aircraft into the World Trade Centre.

Evidence is mounting that this meeting was not an isolated event. The Observer has learnt that Atta's talks with al-Ani were only one of several apparent links between Iraq, the 11 September hijackers and Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network. Senior US intelligence sources say the CIA has 'credible information' that in the spring of this year, at least two other members of the hijacking team also met known Iraqi intelligence agents outside the United States. They are believed to be Atta's closest associates and co-leaders, Marwan al-Shehri and Ziad Jarrah, the other two members of the 'German cell ' who lived with Atta in Hamburg in the late 1990s.

In the strongest official statement to date alleging Iraqi involvement in the new wave of anti-Western terrorism, on Friday night Milos Zeman, the Czech Prime Minister, told reporters and Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, that the Czech authorities believed Atta and al-Ani met expressly to discuss a bombing. He said they were plotting to destroy the Prague-based Radio Free Europe with a truck stuffed with explosives, adding: 'Yes, you cannot exclude also the hypothesis that they discussed football, ice hockey, weather and other topics. But I am not so sure.

In Washington and Whitehall, a furious political battle is raging over the scope of the anti-terrorist war, and whether it should eventually include action against Iraq. According to the Foreign Office, British Ministers have responded to this prospect with 'horror', arguing that an attack on Saddam Hussein would cause terrible civilian casualties and cement anti-Western anger across Middle East.

Meanwhile, Paul Wolfowitz, the US Deputy Defence Secretary, heads a clique of determined, powerful hawks, most of them outside the administration - among them James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA. The doves argue that an al-Qaeda-Iraq link is improbable, given the sharp ideological differences between Saddam's secular Baathism and Islamic fundamentalism. They also say that claims of Iraqi involvement are being driven by the agenda of the hawks - a group which has for years been seeking to finish the job left undone at the end of the Gulf war in 1991.

Nevertheless, Saddam does not lack a plausible motive: revenge for his expulsion from Kuwait in 1991, and for the continued sanctions and Western bombing of his country ever since. In this febrile atmosphere, hard information about who ordered the 11 September attacks remains astonishingly scarce.

US investigators have traced the movements of the 19 hijackers going back years, and have amassed a detailed picture of who did what inside the conspiracy. Yet what lay beyond the hijackers is an intelligence black hole. If they had a support network in America, none of its members has been traced, and among the hundreds of telephone records and emails the investigators have recovered, nothing gets close to identifying those ultimately responsible.

It still seems almost certain, intelligence sources say, that parts of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network actively backed the conspiracy: about half of the estimated $500,000 the hijackers used reportedly came from al-Qaeda sources, while some of the terrorists are believed to have passed through bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan. At the same time, however, evidence is emerging of direct Iraqi links with the US hijackers in particular, and with radical Islamic terror groups in general.

In the early period after the attacks, Western intelligence agencies said they knew of nothing to suggest an Iraqi connection. That position has now changed. A top US analyst - a serving intelligence official with no connection to the 'hawks' around Wolfowitz - told The Observer: 'You should think of this thing as a spectrum: with zero Iraqi involvement at one end, and 100 per cent Iraqi direction and control at the other. The scenario we now find most plausible is somewhere in the middle range - significant Iraqi assistance and some involvement.'

Last night, Whitehall sources made clear that parts of British intelligence had reached the same conclusion. Uncomfortable as it may be, this reassessment is having a political impact. Last month, when the CIA was still telling him it did not believe Iraq was involved in 11 September, Powell said there were 'no plans' to attack Iraq. Last Thursday, speaking in Kuwait, he abruptly reversed his earlier pronouncements. He promised that after dealing with bin Laden and Afghanistan, 'we will turn our attention to terrorism throughout the world, and nations such as Iraq'.

The FBI is now sure that Atta, the Egyptian who had studied in Germany, was the hijackers' overall leader. He personally handled more than $100,000 of the plot's funds, more than any other conspirator, and he made seven foreign trips in 2000 and 2001 - all of which appear to have had some operational significance. Investigators lay heavy stress on a captured al-Qaeda manual which emphasises the value of conducting discussions about pending terrorist attacks face to face, rather than by electronic means.

Two of those trips were to meet al-Ani in Prague. The Iraqi's profile has been supplied by defectors from Saddam's intelligence service, the Mukhabarat, who are now being guarded by the London-based opposition group, the Iraqi National Congress (INC). CIA sources have confirmed its crucial details. 'There's really no doubt that al-Ani is a very senior Iraqi agent,' one source said.

The Observer has interviewed two of the defectors. They began to tell their stories at the beginning of October, and have been debriefed extensively by the FBI and the CIA. Al-Ani's experience in covert 'wet jobs' (assassinations), gives his meetings with Atta a special significance: his expertise was killing.

According to the defectors, he has an unusual ability to change his appearance and operate under cover. One defector recalls a meeting in the early 1990s when al-Ani had long, silver hair, and wore jeans, silver chains and sunglasses. Al-Ani explained he was about to undertake a mission which required him to look like a Western hippy. A member of Saddam's Baathist party since his youth, al-Ani also has extensive experience working with radical Islamists such as Mohamed Atta.

Since the 1980s, Saddam has organised numerous Islamic conferences in Baghdad, expressly for the Mukhabarat to find foreign recruits. Al-Ani has been seen at at least two of them. On one occasion, the defectors say, he took on the cover of a Muslim cleric at a fundamentalists' conference in Karachi, presenting himself as a delegate from the Iraqi shrine of the Sufi mystic Abdel-Qadir al-Gaylani, whose followers are numerous in Pakistan.

Last Wednesday, Iraq made its own response to the news of the meetings between al-Ani and Atta. Tariq Aziz, Saddam's Deputy Prime Minister, denied Iraq had anything to do with the hijackings, saying: 'Even if that [the meetings] happened, that would mean nothing, for a diplomat could meet many people during his duty, whether he was at a restaurant or elsewhere, and even if he met Mohamed Atta, that would not mean the Iraqi diplomat was involved.'

Yet the striking thing about the meetings is the lengths to which Atta went in order to attend them. In June last year, he flew to Prague from Hamburg, only to be refused entry because he had failed to obtain a visa. Three days later, now equipped with the paperwork, Atta was back for a visit of barely 24 hours. He flew from the Czech Republic to the US, where he began to train as pilot. In early April 2001, when the conspiracy's planning must have been nearing its final stages, Atta was back in Prague for a further brief visit - a journey of considerable inconvenience.

On 17 April, the Czechs expelled al-Ani, who had diplomatic cover, as a hostile spy. Last night, a senior US diplomatic source told The Observer that Atta was not the only suspected al-Qaeda member who met al-Ani and other Iraqi agents in Prague. He said the Czechs monitored at least two further such meetings in the months before 11 September.

The senior US intelligence source said the CIA believed that two other hijackers, al-Shehri and Jarrah, also met known Iraqi intelligence officers outside the US in the run-up to the atrocities. It is understood these meetings took place in the United Arab Emirates - where Iraq maintains its largest 'illegal', or non-diplomatic, cover intelligence operation, most of it devoted to oil exports and busting economic sanctions.

The source added that Egyptian Islamic Jihad, which has now effectively merged with al-Qaeda, maintained regular contacts with Iraq for many years. He confirmed the claims first made by the Iraqi National Congress - that towards the end of 1998, Farouk Hijazi, Iraq's ambassador to Turkey and a key member of the Mukhabarat leadership - went to Kandahar in Afghanistan, where he met bin Laden.

The FBI believes many of the 11 hijackers who made up the conspiracy's 'muscle', Saudi Arabians who entered the US at a late stage and whose task was to overpower the aircrafts' passengers and crew, trained at Afghan camps run by al-Qaeda. But they have no details: no times or places where any of these individuals learnt their skills. Meanwhile, it is now becoming clear that al-Qaeda is not the only organisation providing terrorist training for Muslim fundamentalists. Since the early 1990s, courses of this type have also been available in Iraq. At the beginning of October, two INC activists in London travelled to eastern Turkey. They had been told that a Mukhabarat colonel had crossed the border through Kurdistan and was ready to defect. The officer - codenamed Abu Zeinab - had extraordinary information about terrorist training in Iraq. In a safe house in Ankara, the two London-based activists took down Zeinab's story. He had worked at a site which was already well known - Salman Pak, a large camp on a peninsular formed by a loop of the Tigris river south of Baghdad.

However, what Zeinab had to say about the southern part of the camp was new. There, he said, separated from the rest of the facilities by a razor-wire fence, was a barracks used to house Islamic radicals, many of them Saudis from bin Laden's Wahhabi sect, but also Egyptians, Yemenis, and other non-Iraqi Arabs.

Unlike the other parts of Salman Pak, Zeinab said the foreigners' camp was controlled directly by Saddam Hussein. In a telephone interview with The Observer, Zeinab described the culture clash which took place when secular Baathists tried to train fundamentalists: 'It was a nightmare! A very strange experience. These guys would stop and insist on praying to Allah five times a day when we had training to do. The instructors wouldn't get home till late at night, just because of all this praying.'

Asked whether he believed the foreigners' camp had trained members of al-Qaeda, Zeinab said: 'All I can say is that we had no structure to take on these people inside the regime. The camp was for organisations based abroad.' One of the highlights of the six-month curriculum was training to hijack aircraft using only knives or bare hands. According to Zeinab, women were also trained in these techniques. Like the 11 September hijackers, the students worked in groups of four or five.

In Ankara, Zeinab was debriefed by the FBI and CIA for four days. Meanwhile he told the INC that if they wished to corroborate his story, they should speak to a man who had political asylum in Texas - Captain Sabah Khodad, who had worked at Salman Pak in 1994-5. He too has now told his story to US investigators. In an interiew with The Observer, he echoed Zeinab's claims: 'The foreigners' training includes assassinations, kidnapping, hijacking. They were strictly separated from the rest of us. To hijack planes they were taught to use small knives. The method used on 11 September perfectly coincides with the training I saw at the camp. When I saw the twin towers attack, the first thought that came into my head was, "this has been done by graduates of Salman Pak".'

Zeinab and Khodad said the Salman Pak students practised their techniques in a Boeing 707 fuselage parked in the foreigners' part of the camp. Yesterday their story received important corroboration from Charles Duelfer, former vice chairman of Unscom, the UN weapons inspection team.

Duelfer said he visited Salman Pak several times, landing by helicopter. He saw the 707, in exactly the place described by the defectors. The Iraqis, he said, told Unscom it was used by police for counter-terrorist training. 'Of course we automatically took out the word "counter",' he said. 'I'm surprised that people seem to be shocked that there should be terror camps in Iraq. Like, derrrrrr! I mean, what, actually, do you expect? Iraq presents a long-term strategic threat. Unfortunately, the US is not very good at recognising long-term strategic threats.'

At the end of September, Donald Rumsfeld, the far from doveish US Defence Secretary, told reporters there was 'no evidence' that Iraq was involved in the atrocities. That judgment is slowly being rewritten.

Many still suspect the anthrax which has so far killed four people in America has an ultimate Iraqi origin: in contrast to recent denials made by senior FBI officials, CIA sources say there simply is not enough material to be sure. However, it does not look likely that the latest anthrax sample, sent to a newspaper in Karachi, can have come from the source recently posited by the FBI - a right-wing US militant. 'The sophistication of the stuff that has been found represents a level of technique and knowledge that in the past has been associated only with governments,' Duelfer said. 'If it's not Iraq, there aren't many alternatives.'

If the emerging evidence of Iraqi involvement in 11 September becomes clearer or more conclusive, the consequences will be immense. In the words of a State Department spokesman after Powell's briefing by the Czech leader on Friday: 'If there is clear evidence connecting the World Trade Centre attacks to Iraq, that would be a very grave development.'

At worst, the anti-terrorist coalition would currently be bombing the wrong country. At best, the world would see that some of President Bush's closest advisers - his father, Powell and Vice President Dick Cheney, to name but three - made a catastrophic error in 1991, when they ended the Gulf war without toppling Saddam.

The case for trying to remove him now might well seem unanswerable. In that scenario, the decisions Western leaders have had to make in the past two months would seem like a trivial prelude.

Additional reporting by Ed Vulliamy in New York and Kate Connolly in Berlin.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iraq
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1 posted on 11/10/2001 5:30:44 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
Wow, if this is true, it looks like we'll be paying a return visit to Baghdad, this time to finish the job.
2 posted on 11/10/2001 5:34:12 PM PST by tomahawk
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To: Pokey78
bump
3 posted on 11/10/2001 5:37:42 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Pokey78
I believe we've been given our marching orders. Let's roll.

There can be no doubt about Iraq's involvement in this...he and bin pigfeces are like Charlie Manson, inducing others to do the deed while they sit on their cushions and enjoy the chaos.

Evil is as evil does.

Sodomosama, the evil twins, will be doin' the towel-head rag on the other side of the River Styx soon enough.

I think I'll be doin' a little dance myself, celebrating their exit from this world.

4 posted on 11/10/2001 5:53:33 PM PST by jwfiv
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To: Pokey78
Wait a minute!
Aren't CNN and the Washington Post still claiming that bin Laden and "right wing extremists" are solely to blame?
5 posted on 11/10/2001 6:00:04 PM PST by okie01
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To: tomahawk
"Wow, if this is true, it looks like we'll be paying a return visit to Baghdad, this time to finish the job. "

you think?

Two words.

Let's Roll.

6 posted on 11/10/2001 6:10:49 PM PST by Keith
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To: Pokey78
"British Ministers have responded to this prospect with 'horror', arguing that an attack on Saddam Hussein would cause terrible civilian casualties and cement anti-Western anger across Middle East. "

I am always amazed by the folks with terminal buckwheats who are so afraid of anti-Western anger. Wake up, gentlemen. No matter what you do or say they will hate you. They hate the west because the west represents civilization. If you are part of civilization then you are a valid target. They hate you and they train their children to hate you.

The Muslims have been in training for hundreds of years against the west. They call Christians: Crusaders (there is a widely used Arabic phrase for this that escapes me at the moment. I hope some alert Freeper will remind me of the term.). It is not an accidental choice. They are still in crusades mode. You cannot defeat the religion, the best that you can hope for is to contain it.

7 posted on 11/10/2001 6:25:39 PM PST by rebdov
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Pokey78; Victoria Delsoul; harpseal; Travis McGee; Spirit Of Truth; Manny Festo...
Senior US intelligence sources say the CIA has 'credible information' that in the spring of this year, at least two other members of the hijacking team (besides Atta) also met known Iraqi intelligence agents outside the United States. They are believed to be Atta's closest associates and co-leaders, Marwan al-Shehri and Ziad Jarrah, the other two members of the 'German cell ' who lived with Atta in Hamburg in the late 1990s.

growl!


9 posted on 11/10/2001 7:29:19 PM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Pokey78; Clinton's a liar
Wow, real journalism! Mandatory reading.
10 posted on 11/10/2001 8:42:57 PM PST by Clinton's a rapist
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To: tex-oma; Pokey78; *TerrOrWar
I saw that and that is about the only part of the article I don't agree with !

This is a blockbuster article, how did the British let all of this out?

If true the next thing is a Declaration of War!

11 posted on 11/10/2001 9:09:12 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Sabertooth
Thanks for the flag!
12 posted on 11/10/2001 9:21:33 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: MeeknMing; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; Ranger; TomGuy; Dan Day; oxi-nato; Blueflag; xm177e2
(((PING))))))
13 posted on 11/10/2001 9:26:55 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Pokey78
Bump
14 posted on 11/10/2001 9:27:54 PM PST by Nogbad
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Sabertooth
However, what Zeinab had to say about the southern part of the camp was new. There, he said, separated from the rest of the facilities by a razor-wire fence, was a barracks used to house Islamic radicals, many of them Saudis from bin Laden's Wahhabi sect, but also Egyptians, Yemenis, and other non-Iraqi Arabs.

Unlike the other parts of Salman Pak, Zeinab said the foreigners' camp was controlled directly by Saddam Hussein. In a telephone interview with The Observer, Zeinab described the culture clash which took place when secular Baathists tried to train fundamentalists: 'It was a nightmare! A very strange experience. These guys would stop and insist on praying to Allah five times a day when we had training to do. The instructors wouldn't get home till late at night, just because of all this praying.'

Muslims pray five times and bow five times a day to a black stone in Mecca, and encircle it seven times just as if the Kaaba were an idol.

16 posted on 11/10/2001 9:35:10 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: aristeides
You should read this article!
17 posted on 11/10/2001 9:36:53 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: tomahawk
Wow, if this is true, it looks like we'll be paying a return visit to Baghdad, this time to finish the job.

Yes, after watching Bush's toughly worded speech to the UN General Asembly today, I am convinced that he is preparing the world for an attack on Iraq, an attack which could potentially involve a nuclear exchange.

18 posted on 11/10/2001 9:53:56 PM PST by Friedrich Hayek
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To: amom; Alamo-Girl; Yellow Rose of Texas
IMPORTANT READ PING
19 posted on 11/10/2001 9:56:00 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
Thanks for the heads up!
20 posted on 11/10/2001 10:01:00 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Friedrich Hayek
"Yes, after watching Bush's toughly worded speech to the UN General Asembly today,
I am convinced that he is preparing the world for an attack on Iraq,
an attack which could potentially involve a nuclear exchange."

I have not read the transcript of his speech yet, but the small clip I saw on TV made me also think
he is preparing the rest of the world for some good old fashioned justice to those who deserve it.

Voice your support for President Bush in this challenging time!
21 posted on 11/10/2001 10:01:58 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: JohnHuang2
I'd be interested in hearing your comments.
You have a good grasp of the overall situation.
22 posted on 11/10/2001 10:04:58 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: classygreeneyedblonde
comments?
23 posted on 11/10/2001 10:06:10 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
Thanks for the heads up here!
24 posted on 11/10/2001 10:08:20 PM PST by amom
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To: Pokey78
'You should think of this thing as a spectrum: with zero Iraqi involvement at one end, and 100 per cent Iraqi direction and control at the other. The scenario we now find most plausible is somewhere in the middle range - significant Iraqi assistance and some involvement.'

What this neglects is that Saddam Hussein, in contrast to al-Qaeda, is completely exposed to US retaliation. Unless one believes that Saddam is suicidal, there really isn't much of a spectrum of possibilities here: either Saddam had only the most tangential, almost accidental involvement in 9/11, insufficient to provoke a US response, or he is fully calling the shots and has his own controls in place to deter our retaliation. Ask yourself which possibility better fits the observed facts to date.

25 posted on 11/10/2001 10:16:45 PM PST by Clinton's a rapist
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To: Pokey78
What is wrong with this country? Ever since Vietnam (and during that conflict) we have been slowly losing our backbone. We constantly look for simple, clean political solutions to problems that can only be resolved with force.

We shouldn't even be debating this!

Iraq, Syria, Cuba, Libya, North Korea...all of them, should be on the short list. There is ample evidence that all of these governments have had a hand in this to some degree or another. And their governments should be removed by force. Anything less is appeasment that is only going to get us in more trouble later.
26 posted on 11/10/2001 10:18:16 PM PST by ijk
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To: jmurphy4413; Sabertooth; harpseal; Squantos; blam; pocat; nunya bidness; wardaddy; onyx; Lent...
VIP: Very Important Post.

This article is almost the written equivalent of the PBS "Frontline" documentary which aired last week called "Gunning for Saddam", which is a "must see".

27 posted on 11/10/2001 10:33:27 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Victoria Delsoul; Travis McGee; dennisw; rebdov
Muslims pray five times and bow five times a day to a black stone in Mecca, and encircle it seven times just as if the Kaaba were an idol.

Victoria, your observation is the most over-looked (dare I say "ignored"?) FACT-point in the entirety of the arguements regarding the Muslim religion. Idol worship!

Of course, the Muslims had no trouble destroying the Buddists monuments that "soiled" their land! In fact, the destruction was celebrated!

28 posted on 11/10/2001 10:42:36 PM PST by onyx
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To: Clinton's a rapist
I think Saddam believes he has a MAD shield in 100s of kilos of anthrax ready to go in the USA, and that his "sample pack" gift to Atta in Prague was to serve as a warning.
29 posted on 11/10/2001 11:00:01 PM PST by Travis McGee
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Zordas
Your sh*t becomes more and more incoherent every day.
31 posted on 11/11/2001 2:10:04 AM PST by Clinton's a rapist
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To: Pokey78; *Anthrax_Scare_List
One of the best posts I've read in a long time!

Apparently no one read this conclusion:

At worst, the anti-terrorist coalition would currently be bombing the wrong country. At best, the world would see that some of President Bush's closest advisers - his father, Powell and Vice President Dick Cheney, to name but three - made a catastrophic error in 1991, when they ended the Gulf war without toppling Saddam.

This is not good news.

Tex, the idea that we are bombing the wrong country is ludicrous, and clearly repudiated by the rest of the article. Al-Qaeda and bin-Laden are up to their eyeballs in this. By taking them out first, we make victory in Iraq easier, since they can't be sending reinforcements to Hussein. We may have to stabilize some other countries around Iraq first before we take on Hussein.

As for not finishing him off the first time, that remains debatable. If Toon hadn't dropped the ball, we might not be facing this mess.

32 posted on 11/11/2001 3:20:21 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; *TerrOrWar
Thanks for the ping.

However, it does not look likely that the latest anthrax sample, sent to a newspaper in Karachi, can have come from the source recently posited by the FBI - a right-wing US militant.

Note how these Observer reporters still believe that the letter sent to the Jang in Pakistan contained genuine anthrax. In saying what they do, they are probably reflecting what they have been told by British defense officials. I strongly suspect our government was lying when it said the Pakistani letters tested negative for anthrax.

The Observer is the Sunday version of the left-wing Guardian. For this hawkish stuff to appear there is highly significant.

33 posted on 11/11/2001 3:32:35 AM PST by aristeides
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To: Lion's Cub
It's predictable that the left-wing Observer would try to give this news an anti-Bush spin. But the hard news this article reports is nevertheless highly significant.

I wonder if it's just a coincidence that only now is the news coming out that bin Laden has admitted responsibility for Sept. 11.

34 posted on 11/11/2001 3:36:02 AM PST by aristeides
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To: Pokey78
The part about Atta and al Ani together planning an attack on Radio Free Europe in Prague is confirmed by an article in yesterday's Washington Post, Czech Leader: Atta Plotted Radio Free Europe Attack . The Washington Post article names as source Czech Prime Minister Milos Zeman, and also says that Colin Powell was surprised by Zeman's information.

Thanks, by the way, for an excellent post.

35 posted on 11/11/2001 3:39:23 AM PST by aristeides
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To: Travis McGee
I saw the Frontline documentary "Gunning for Saddam." It was an excellent piece. I look forward to their next special, on Saudi Arabia.
36 posted on 11/11/2001 3:40:22 AM PST by aristeides
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pokey78; tex-oma
Apparently no one read this conclusion:

At worst, the anti-terrorist coalition would currently be bombing the wrong country. At best, the world would see that some of President Bush's closest advisers - his father, Powell and Vice President Dick Cheney, to name but three - made a catastrophic error in 1991, when they ended the Gulf war without toppling Saddam.

This is not good news.


I saw that and that is about the only part of the article I don't agree with !

This is a blockbuster article, how did the British let all of this out?

If true the next thing is a Declaration of War!


I hear you there, Ernest. To me, the very worst thing is we have a war on two fronts now. Because of the tentative and inconclusive information regarding the Iraqi connection, we really cannot afford the political impact of attacking Iraq right now - not to mention stretching our military forces out?? But I'll leave that with confidence in the hands of my responsible vote for President Bush last year. He will do the right thing!

This is scary stuff, guys. My subtitle to this article would read "The Stuff Nightmares Are Made From."

My FIRST thought after the attack on the WTC was "Osama bin Laden" did the attack. I have often wondered about Saddam and his reign of Terror and the possibility he was somehow involved. I mean, think about this (I have): George W. Bush's Dad kept "SADdam" (pronounced that way by the first Bush President because it was a HIGH insult in Iraqi lingo) out of Kuwait in the Gulf War. What better "revenge" than to counter that with an attack during Bush's sons Presidency? I think that SADdam has made the classic mistake regarding George W. Bush: He has UNDERestimated him!

Thanks for the article, Pokey & thanks for the pink, Ernest! Thanks to you, too, Tex!

38 posted on 11/11/2001 4:22:17 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: Republican Wildcat; Howlin; Fred Mertz; .30Carbine; Uff Da; Sungirl; anniegetyourgun; kattracks...
(((PING))))))

MUST READ for anyone interested in the War Against Terrorism. Please alert others to this article as well!
Thanks!

39 posted on 11/11/2001 4:30:59 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: Friedrich Hayek
"Yes, after watching Bush's toughly worded speech to the UN General Asembly today, I am convinced that he is preparing the world for an attack on Iraq, an attack which could potentially involve a nuclear exchange."

I don't think his words were wasted on anyone who heard them. I was very impressed.

40 posted on 11/11/2001 4:40:39 AM PST by blam
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To: OldWhig
Unfortunately, it's not just CNN that's using the term "right-wing extremists." A correspondent on FOX used it tonight when referring to the "fringe elements" within Saudi Arabia. My blood boils every time I hear the phrase used in reference to Islamic nutballs/terrorists.
Help me out here, if you would please. I also heard the phrase "right-wing extremists" used on FOX yesterday. My first reaction was the same as yours: "Huh? Where's that coming from?" Why would they want to equate it to "Right Wing" and add the Whacko to it? Here's where I need your help in getting educated. Wouldn't "Skinheads" like the guys in Idaho be considered "Right Wing Extremists?" I mean, aren't those people extreme in their beliefs to the point of GREAT EXCLUSION of certain groups as well?

I kinda shrugged off the use of the phrase because I felt that it was probably a correct phrase - or not far off base.

Educate me folks. . .(now my fear of flaming begins?) ;-)

41 posted on 11/11/2001 4:41:13 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: onyx
Of course, the Muslims had no trouble destroying the Buddists monuments that "soiled" their land! In fact, the destruction was celebrated!
Reminds me of the coverage of the Palestinians shown dancing in the streets after hearing the news of the WTC attack on September 11th. . .
42 posted on 11/11/2001 4:54:11 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: Lion's Cub
Good points all around! By this, I assume you are talking about bc failing to nail OBL after the first WTC attack and the Embassy bombing in S Africa?:

If Toon hadn't dropped the ball, we might not be facing this mess.

43 posted on 11/11/2001 5:01:10 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: aristeides
I wonder if it's just a coincidence that only now is the news coming out that bin Laden has admitted responsibility for Sept. 11.

Huh? Is this confirmed?? If so, how did I miss that???
44 posted on 11/11/2001 5:08:01 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
Pardon my butting in, but maybe I can help. Using right wing to describe the islamic terrorists is problematic, but so also is using the same term to describe skinheads and neo-nazis. The problem lies in a faulty understanding of Left-Right ideology.

A more appropriate (although not perfect) way of understanding Left v Right is to think of it in terms More Government versus Less Government. The Left believes in more government. Government dictating what we ought to do, how we should think, where we can go, etc. The Left generally thinks in terms of groups and group movement. The Right believes in less government. More liberty for the individual to decide for themselves. The Right thinks in terms of individuals. Individuals are judged on their own merits. With this (very simplfied definition)in mind, the islamic terrorists, Bin Laden, Al Queda, Taliban, et al are hardly right-wing. Their ideology revolves around a highly centralized, domineering government. they think in terms of the group (islam). They believe that some sort of quasi-government/religious bureacracy should dictate peoples' lives. They come from an ideological bent that has more in common with old Soviet Communism than any thing else, save possibly, Naziism. Those who espouse the americanized version of neo-naziism are also the nasty children of the Left. Their ideology is based in groupthink. They desire a centralized militaristic form of government founded upon racism and bigotry. They generally believe in a managed economy rather than free enterprise. More governemtn controls (to favor their group), rather than less.

It bothers me also, that the term right wing is bandied about when describing those I would consider "control freaks." Those who love liberty, believe that individuals (regardless of race, creed, color, etc) should stand on their own merits, who desire representative government, less government, equality before the law, etc are the True Right.

45 posted on 11/11/2001 5:25:06 AM PST by KirkandBurke
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To: KirkandBurke
Pardon my butting in, but maybe I can help. Using right wing to describe the islamic terrorists is problematic, but so also is using the same term to describe skinheads and neo-nazis. The problem lies in a faulty understanding of Left-Right ideology. . .

Thanks, good FReeper for your helpful comments there! I do appreciate the input.

I think they probably should refer to these "Right Wing Terrorists" as "Malik Shabaz'ers" instead! (I'm not sure I got that name correct? He's the guy that's always on FOX News and is with the New Black Panthers?? He's the leader of the "Blame America First" crowd that hates this country and all it stands for).

I searched trying to find something on this guy but came up totally blank??. . .

46 posted on 11/11/2001 7:02:41 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
"right-wing extremists"... "educate me"

It's documented that when Hillary uses this phrase, she dismissively refers to those who "listen to talk radio."

HF

47 posted on 11/11/2001 8:33:55 AM PST by holden
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: OldWhig
fascists are right-authoritarians

That's a neat map you've got there, btw.

But I've never seen the logic of calling fascists "right-wing." Seems to me fascism, as in National Socialism, has far more in common with left-wing authoritarianism than with the right.

This formula that 'fascism = right wing' is, I believe, an invention of the left, and has been unquestioning accepted by the media and historians.

49 posted on 11/11/2001 8:42:45 AM PST by gumbo
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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