Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The genocide beyond the Hindu Kush
REDIFF.COM ^ | F. Gautier

Posted on 11/11/2001 5:04:50 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy

The West seems to have suddenly woken up to Muslim fundamentalism in South Asia when the Taleban demolished the Bamiyan statues, in spite of frantic appeals from all over the world. But there is a bit of hypocrisy in the outrage triggered by this destruction.

Firstly, Islam is very clear about statues: didn't Prophet Mohammad break the first stone Gods himself? Thereafter, it became a holy duty for all good Muslims. Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388), who has an avenue named after him in New Delhi, wrote: 'On the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders and practitioners of this abomination; I destroyed their idols and temples to build mosques in their places.' As Belgian historian Konraad Elst points out, 'Muslim fanatics are merely faithful executors of Quranic injunctions. It is not the Muslims who are guilty, but Islam.' Thus, the Taleban, who want to restore the early purity of Islam, really thought they were performing a righteous act by destroying the 'heathen' Buddhist statues.

Secondly, does the West ever protest when Hindu temples are destroyed periodically in Bangladesh and Pakistan? The HRCBM, a Santa Clara-based organisation that investigates and exposes human rights violations in Bangladesh, has recorded a few outrages against Hindus in Bangladesh during 2000:

On March 29, 2000, Malarani Roy of Karagola village was abducted by Muslims. She was brutally beaten up and gang-raped. The local police found her, but refused to register a case. On June 26, a group of Muslims directed Smriti Rani Saha of Sirajganj town to migrate to India. When she refused, she was abducted, gang-raped and brutally murdered. On May 28, Debasish Saha of Poradaha was fatally shot by a Muslim gang. On June 4, Mayaram Tripura of Balipara was shot dead by local Muslims. On October 6, 2000, Muslim devotees, after offering namaaz at the Gajipur Jama Masjid, strolled across to the Hindu Kali temple, destroyed the puja pandal, smashed the idols, and looted nearby Hindu-owned shops.

Take a look at the figures of the Hindu population of India's Muslims neighbours: in 1941, in what would become Pakistan, there were approximately 25 per cent Hindus and 30 per cent in what would later become Bangladesh; in 1948, only 17 per cent in Pakistan and 25 per cent in Bangladesh; in 1991, a bare 1.5 per cent remained in Pakistan and less than 10 per cent in Bangladesh.

Thirdly, the West has not yet realised that for the Muslims of South Asia, Hindus are kafirs by excellence: the Buddhists adore only Buddha, the Christians only Jesus, but Hindus worship a million gods and goddesses; and that makes them -- even today -- the number one enemy of Islam. This is why Kashmir is so important: it is not about territory, it is about a holy war against Hindu India that has been going on for 15 centuries and it is only the first step of the encirclement of India by hostile Muslim neighbours: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, with soft nations, like Nepal, often lending them a helping hand.

Nothing symbolises more the absoluteness of Muslim belligerence towards Hindus than the Hindu Kush. Historically, the passes across the Hindu Kush have been of great military significance, providing access to the northern plains of India to foreign invaders, starting from Alexander the Great in 327 BC, to Taimurlane in 1398 AD, and from Mahmud of Ghazni, in 1001 AD, to Nadar Shah in 1739 AD.

As noted by Srinandan Vyas on the Hindu.org web site: 'In Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtar -- to slaughter or carnage, because all Hindus living there were slaughtered. Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally "Kills the Hindu," a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. While Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions that the name Hindu Kush first appears in 1333 AD in the writings of Ibn Battutah, the medieval Berber traveller, who said the name meant "Hindu Killer," a meaning still given by Afghan mountain dwellers who are traditional enemies of Hindus.'

'Unlike the Jewish holocaust,' writes again Vyas, 'the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions.' A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Taimurlane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Taimurlane's army was about 100,000 .

Encyclopaedia Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian.' Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms '1,500,000 residents perished.'

Why does not the Government of India tell Indian children about the Hindu Kush genocide? The horrors of the Jewish Holocaust are taught not only at schools in Israel and USA, but also in Germany. Because both Germany and Israel consider the Jewish Holocaust a 'dark chapter' in history. Yet, in 1982, the National Council of Educational Research and Training issued a directive for the rewriting of school texts. Among other things it stipulated that: 'characterisation of the medieval period as a time of conflict between Hindus and Moslems is forbidden.' Thus denial of history, or negationism, has become India's official 'educational' policy.

It is high time that the West realises that India is fighting a lonely battle against Muslim fundamentalism in Asia. The French for one, who have a definite problem with Muslim terrorism, should support India more openly.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: islam; muslims; nonmuslims
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-62 next last

1 posted on 11/11/2001 5:04:50 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Food for thought.
2 posted on 11/11/2001 5:13:53 PM PST by cynwoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
It's not really food for thought - just more propaganda typical of the kind Hindus toss at Moslems, particularly Pakistanis, or that Pakistanis or Moslems toss at Hindus and Buddhists.

A lot has "gone down" in the Subcontinent over the centuries, and a good deal of it is remembered.

This fellow wants us to get excited about the plight of slaves from India being transported to the Middle East over the Hindu Kush in the 1300s. Frankly, I get much more excited about the Anglo-Saxon barbarians invading Brittany and slaughtering many of the relatives of my ancestors back in the 1300s! Why don't the Hindus get excited about that? It was certainly more relevant to history. Could it be that their experience under the iron heel of those very same Anglo-Saxons in later centuries has given them pause to wave around that particular set of dirty linen - after all, "they" might come back, and then what would Indian politicians do?

The only way these people are going to be able to move into the future is to adopt a more enlightened attitude toward their neighbors - and toward each other for that matter. There are still 100s of millions of people in India identified as harijan, or "outcaste". That problem is much closer to home, and more relevant, than the 1300s in the Himalayas. Time for these people to start taking care of their own problems first.

3 posted on 11/11/2001 5:32:00 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lent; dennisw
Bump!
4 posted on 11/11/2001 5:36:42 PM PST by Aaron_A
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
You evil, evil man. Why do you berate me for posting articles with diverging views from your own? Or are you doing just what Free Republic is doing, omitting posts from conservatives who wish to educate people about what's really going on? I feel sorry for you, and the blinders you are wearing are occluding your vision, and your reason.

Go here

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/oct/01franc.htm

and here

http://www.rediff.com/news/franc.htm

Then write me back and I will be happy to talk to you. Until then, leave me alone.

5 posted on 11/11/2001 5:36:47 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
You post a topic, expect to get commentary. I went to your websites so tell me again, what was the point?

That Hindus were killed five hundred years ago? I'm sorry, but the world was coarser then. Besides, Tamerlane was hardly a Muslim, so don't blame this one on Pakistan. I happen to have a very high opinion of Jinnah myself.

6 posted on 11/11/2001 5:43:50 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Facts, not propaganda. Muslims are slaughtering christians all over Southern Asia (and Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines) today, and for the last 5+ years (and that's when I started reading these reports...) These Muslims are just not very nice people at all. Perhaps the 'jihad' is on big-time--and perhaps a little American retaliation or "preventive medicine" is necessary.
7 posted on 11/11/2001 5:45:34 PM PST by ninenot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
They were not killed "five hundred years ago," you moron.

America is not the only nation to suffer from terrorism. Countries like India lose thousands of lives to Islamic fundamentalism each year, without the Western world taking any notice.

George Bush has more or less ignored India, a vibrant, democratic, pro-Western nation. Why?

How do you eliminate terrorism with terrorism? Because Pakistan is at the root of terrorism. The Taleban came out of Pakistani madarasas and were able to take nearly the whole of Afghanistan with the help of Pakistani officers. Pakistan has made jihad a national enterprise, not only hitting India, but also training militants who struck in the US, Bosnia and Chechnya. By lifting the economic sanctions on both India and Pakistan, the US has also -- once again -- put on the same footing two nations which, whatever their respective merits (all is not evil in Pakistan), cannot be compared.

India, a giant of a nation, is a bastion of freedom in an Asia torn by fundamentalism and the shadow of Chinese hegemony. Pakistan, a small country, always on the verge of bankruptcy, has been for most of its independence under military dictatorships. This equating Pakistan and India is an old perverse English strategy which had the purpose of dividing Muslims and Hindus so that the British could rule. It is sad to say that 200 years later this policy is still alive in the minds of Western leaders.

The third error is to think that by killing Osama bin Laden and bombing Afghanistan, he is going to solve -- partly or fully -- the problem of Islamic fundamentalism. Bush has also invited Muslim leaders to the White House, telling them that his fight is 'not against Islam, but against terrorism.' The first thing Bush should understand is that the problem is not with Muslims, who are like all other human beings in the world -- some of are very good, some are okay and some are bad -- but with Islam, a religion which teaches that there is only one God and that jihad is justified to convert others to the true religion.

The US might ultimately succeed in killing bin Ladin, but will not other bin Ladens surface elsewhere in the world?

Finally, there is one factor which is being completely overlooked. What is China going to do?

At the times of the attacks, Beijing was on the verge of strengthening its ties with the Taleban. Since then, it has closed its borders with Afghanistan for fear that some of the terrorists might spill into Xinjiang and worsen the already simmering Islamic problem there.

But China is a cold calculator and it will do only what serves its interests regardless of the moral consequences. We have seen how it armed Pakistan to counter India and gave Islamabad the technology to build nuclear weapons -- and even the capability to deliver them, thanks to North Korean M-11 missiles. Will China ultimately side -- even if temporarily -- with the Muslim world, when it starts uniting against American imperialism? Only then will the possibility of a third World War really emerge.

8 posted on 11/11/2001 5:54:37 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
When the Untouchables of India are as free as the newest Ellis Island immigrant, call me. Otherwise, kindly take back your "dummy" remark.
9 posted on 11/11/2001 5:58:08 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
.........Anglo-Saxon barbarians invading Brittany and slaughtering many of the relatives of my ancestors back in the 1300s!

Hate to tell you this, but those folks were no more Anglo-Saxon than the Pope, and he's Polish! They were Norman, more French that English, and many of them didn't even speak the same language as the people they ruled. They spoke French at home and took French wives, and considered their property in France to be much more important than their property in England. It was certainly more valuable.

10 posted on 11/11/2001 6:00:40 PM PST by jimtorr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
Listen Lejes. There are oppressed people everywhere. You should know that. But your agenda is quite obvious. You wish to extend Muslim terrorism to India, you wish that India would become a Muslim country, don't you? Why else would you punish a country that is doing the best it can, everyday, to emulate and work with the United States, while getting backstabbed by Pakistan, China, and their sympathizers. I am ashamed to consider you a fellow American. Go away.
11 posted on 11/11/2001 6:01:52 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ninenot
So, maybe the answer is to arm the Christians so they can fight back. Then, there's that place in Indonesia - former Portuguese colony - there a lot of the Christians had become Commies and started killing off the other Christians and the Moslems. One thing led to the next and it got out of control. In the end the Moslems were killing people who claimed to be Christians - but when you know how the thing started, I wonder about it. Do they allow Protestant churches there in Timor? Bet they don't!

No doubt there are many places where Moslems feel besieged by the outside world which they believe to be Christian or Christian dominated. They feel jealousy, anger, etc. Did you know they feel the same about the people in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Shanghai and Singapore?

Shortly they will feel the same about Red China!

Many Moslems do not need Christians or Jews as targets for hate.

Now, what would you propose we do to change their minds? Maybe send in Christian missionaries? - well, Christian missionaries backed by the armed might of NATO possibly.

Give me some choices here!

12 posted on 11/11/2001 6:05:15 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Please, avoid ad hominems. Frankly, I don't care if you are ashamed to see me as an American.

The fact remains, life in India remains heavily dominated by the caste system. I would hardly call that "doing the best it can, everyday, to emulate and work with the United States", would you?

13 posted on 11/11/2001 6:06:47 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: jimtorr
By the 1300s the Anglo-Saxons had absorbed the Normans. In any case, neither the Normans nor the Anglo-Saxons nor the other kinds of French were Breton!

But, we have news on now - something about a hijacking attempt thwarted at Dulles airport - much more current than Hindus being killed over 700 years ago!

14 posted on 11/11/2001 6:10:05 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
BTW, don't take my criticism of that material personally. I am sure you are a very nice person.

The Pakistani version of the same story is that all Hindus worship rats and will turn them loose in your neighborhood if you let a Hindu family live in it.

I have found that story to not be true - but some of them do have an affection for Black Mamba snakes that I find to be a bit disquieting. Then, too, most Hindus are bothered by that just as much as I am.

15 posted on 11/11/2001 6:13:20 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
Please. The "caste system" is constantly used as a lame excuse when people like you run out of "moral authority" in attacking India and its democratic government. It is a well-known fact that the caste system has always been a ruse concocted by the British to "divide and conquer" the people of India, and to subjugate them to their will, while they robbed, raped, and pillaged that once great and wealthy nation. But if you would like an education, go here, it also has an extensive bibliography at the bottom of the page, but I am sure you will ignore it and continue to spew your ignorant tripe on these boards:

THE TRUTH BEHIND THE CASTE SYSTEM IN INDIA

16 posted on 11/11/2001 6:13:38 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
George Bush has more or less ignored India, a vibrant, democratic, pro-Western nation. Why?

I don't get it. What does India need from G-dub? Doesn't a nation of 1 billion have an army and other resources with which to redress their differences with Pakistan? If that's how they feel, India should have "gotten it on" with Pakistan long before the USA got involved over there for separate, more complex reasons.

Besides that, what's with being an American and yet having one's main and only foreign policy hardon over India, of all places?

17 posted on 11/11/2001 6:16:00 PM PST by Migraine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Thank you for your abject racism and unimaginative comments, which smack of the kind of educationally-challenged race-based insults so common on such intellectually stimulating sites as the "Yahoo Messenger Board."

Please do not degrade these coveted board on Free Republic with that kind of idiocy. The Free Republic is one of the few places that people with minds can talk, debate, and think. Your base and vile statement that "Hindus worship rats" is totally deceitful and an evil statement, and it is typical of the ISI propaganda war machine that is ruining Pakistan, India, and the rest of the world.

18 posted on 11/11/2001 6:19:22 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Migraine
Great comment, but unfortunately, India has been all but "hog-tied" when it has come to Pakistan. The United States, Great Britain, and the U.N. (heavily dominated by Islamic leaders) have strongly "discouraged" India from taking Pakistan out, once and for all. That is the reason why we are paying the price today. Even now, India is straining at the leash. But still, the U.S. and Britain are "cautioning" India to abstain from turning Pakistan into the stool smear that it should be. What would you do?
19 posted on 11/11/2001 6:22:46 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
You got to be joking. Do you realize the slaughter which Islam perpetrated in India and in this entire region of Asia for centuries? The Jihad is still going on as well. Oh, I'm sorry, you like the Jihad.
20 posted on 11/11/2001 6:23:19 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
BTTT
21 posted on 11/11/2001 6:23:55 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
All he said is that it's a two-sided quarrel. I seem to recall that the Hindus demolished an ancient mosque a couple of years ago to build a Hindu temple in its place.

And what seems to get left out of this article is that the Hindus AND the Muslims in India delight in killing Christians.

I tend to agree with you that we have more to worry about from the Muslims--not because of what both sides do to each other in the Indian subcontinent, but because Islam is an expansionist religion, while Hinduism is not, and also because Muslims are everywhere, while most Hindus are in India where they don't bother us.

22 posted on 11/11/2001 6:25:58 PM PST by Cicero
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Ah, so it was the British who established the caste system all those many thousands of years ago. Thanks for clearing that up.
23 posted on 11/11/2001 6:35:54 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
In Hindu mythology, the elephant-headed god, Ganesh, is accompanied by a rat wherever he travels. An offering to Ganesh and his small companion is an important part of Hindu worship.

The Karni Mata Temple was built in the 17th century and dedicated to an incarnation of the goddess Durga. The rats are holy because they are considered to be reincarnations of people hiding from the wrath of Yama, the Hindu god of death.

But it is not only the rats living in the temple that are worshipped. Many Hindus are reluctant to kill any rat even an unwelcome one caught in a kitchen. And in Calcutta, residents regularly feed thousands of rats that live in the city parks.

But in the Karni Mata Temple, rat worship is taken to an entirely new level. There, it is considered auspicious if the rats scamper across your feet. However, if you accidentally trample one of the small but holy rodents and kill it, you are expected to donate a solid gold model of a rat to the temple to compensate for your inadvertent sin

Rat temple a sight to see, but not for the squeamish

24 posted on 11/11/2001 6:38:14 PM PST by NimbleBunny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Alright, all of you STOP! A lot of horrible crimes have been committed over the centuries. Many of them in the name of God (Who, I'm sure, doesn't appreciate it one bit). It's good to remember the past, it's important because the past helped to create the future, but you can't dwell on it.

Thank you APFD, for posting this very informative article.

25 posted on 11/11/2001 6:38:37 PM PST by McGavin999
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Your comments are well-taken. But please allow me to respond:

"All he said is that it's a two-sided quarrel. I seem to recall that the Hindus demolished an ancient mosque a couple of years ago to build a Hindu temple in its place."

The "ancient mosque" that you talk about was actually an incredibly important Hindu temple, famous because it was in the Ramayana, the "Odyssey" or "Iliad" of India, that was destroyed by Muslims who razed it and then obscenely built a Muslim mosque directly on that site. But, of course, in keeping with delightful and lovely Muslim philosophy, this was after they raped nearly every woman in the city, and bloodily slaughtered all Hindu men and boys, young and old alike. It was in Ayodhya. Go check it out.

"And what seems to get left out of this article is that the Hindus AND the Muslims in India delight in killing Christians."

Again, you are either misinformed, or are believing the propaganda. Hindus do not kill Christians, Muslims do. This is because in a Hindu's eyes, because there are so many "paths" or "ways" to G-d, even a Christian is viewed as a fellow Hindu, more or less. But it would never degrade to the outright slaughtering of Christians, because it is totally at odds with Hindu and Indian philosophy, which preaches tolerance and embracing divergent viewpoints. How else would one Hindu who believes in "Shiva" accept another Hindu who praises "Vishnu?" Hindus are also basically vegetarians, and woould not even kill an animal to survive. Think about that, and get back to me.

"I tend to agree with you that we have more to worry about from the Muslims--not because of what both sides do to each other in the Indian subcontinent, but because Islam is an expansionist religion, while Hinduism is not, and also because Muslims are everywhere, while most Hindus are in India where they don't bother us."

On several fronts you are right, when you say that Hinduism is not an expansionist religion, and so it does not care who converts and who does not, whereas Islam is an expansionist religion, which cuts and spears anyone in their path that does not convert. But Hindus are everywhere, and they get along with and contribute to nearly every nation that gives them residence. Look at the computer and internet based technology revolution here in the states, for example. The reason you are enjoying such dynamic graphics, fast internet speed, and the ability to craft nice HTML codes is due, in great part, to Indian Hindus from Silicon Valley, California and Bangalore, India. Vinod Khosla, for example, invented the Pentium Processor for Intel.

26 posted on 11/11/2001 6:45:11 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
INDIA

"The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying from within."1

The second caliph, Umar sent an expedition against India in 636 CE but it was unsuccessful. For thirteen centuries the Hindus have withstood, with breaks here and there and with varying degrees of success, attempts to Islamize the sub-continent.

The last actual war was in 1971 with Pakistan and, at the moment, Islamic efforts seem confined to swelling the Muslim population of the Republic of India to over 100 million by infiltration and by natural increase-the Muslim population increase is nearly double that of the Hindu. "Marry women... who will be very prolific, for I wish you to be more numerous than any other people" (Muhammad)

Islam sees India as "unfinished business" and it is, without doubt, the next country on the agenda. Oil-rich Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia are spending millions trying to convert and subvert India to Islam.

We cannot possibly detail all the terror and cruelty inflicted upon the Hindus, particularly in the thirteenth to seventeenth centuries. We shall merely illustrate them with several short essays.

SOME ISLAMIC HISTORY

27 posted on 11/11/2001 6:48:43 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
The formalized, caste ridden warmongering in India was, yes. Even European society had noblemen, knights, kings, princes, feudal lords, slaves, serfs, pages, and squires. Those "serfs," "slaves," and "squires" were sometimes treated inhumanely, and degraded. How dare you elevate your society's history, while ignoring the British hypocrisy in using India's version of European societal structure against them?
28 posted on 11/11/2001 6:49:05 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999
McGavin, thank you for listening, and keeping an open mind. It is very much appreciated.
29 posted on 11/11/2001 6:50:45 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
The difference being that Squires and Serfs are no more, but Brahmins still lord it over Untouchables.
30 posted on 11/11/2001 6:54:44 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
That is a beautiful lie, the latest in your bag of tricks. Do you know that the past few Presidents and Prime Ministers of India have been, to use your love of the caste system, "untouchables." Who is lording over who? And the very word, "untouchable," is a bastardization of the Indian word for that individual, which is "harijan," or "child of G-d."

India has protested over and over about this Europran and Muslim based conjuring up of the caste system whenever they spew it, but do not take my word for it. I'm sre you won't. Go here:

French paper calls Narayanan untouchable, India protests

31 posted on 11/11/2001 7:01:19 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
That is a beautiful lie, the latest in your bag of tricks. Do you know that the past few Presidents and Prime Ministers of India have been, to use your love of the caste system, "untouchables." Who is lording over who? And the very word, "untouchable," is a bastardization of the Indian word for that individual, which is "harijan," or "child of G-d."

India has protested over and over about this European and Muslim based conjuring up of the caste system whenever they spew it, but do not take my word for it. I'm sure that you won't. Go here:

French paper calls Narayanan untouchable, India protests

32 posted on 11/11/2001 7:03:34 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
You're welcome. The history of the world, when looked at as a whole, is a magnificent tapestry. Unfortunately, when we start picking the threads it all unravels into an ugly, unrecognizable heap. It's best to look at it as a whole and to understand that each of those threads, no matter how ugly on it's own, has contributed to the beauty of the entire tapestry.
33 posted on 11/11/2001 7:04:32 PM PST by McGavin999
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
If the untouchables are children of God, why do so many convert to Islam? You can hardly blame the Mughals any more.
34 posted on 11/11/2001 7:06:21 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
It's because Hindu philosophy does not discourage or encourage converting or abandoning religion. It is always viewed as a personal choice. People all over the world convert for many, many different reasons. Some do it for economical reasons, others for a delineated faith, and some do it because they appreciate what it stands for. But the important thing to remember is that Hindu philosophy does not proseletyze, convert, or preach, against anyone's will. Islam has used violence, intimidation, fear, and economic starvation to forcibly convert the majority of their followers all over the world.

There is a very real danger here, and India is losing the money and propaganda war against Islam, and the oil-soaked and/or military driven business people who are their allies, in both the US and Europe. China is already waiting to help bring India down. If India falls to Islam, then there will be nothing standing in Jihad's way. They will have 1 billion more people, a superb military, and 350,000,000 extra troops. Plus those jihadi bastards will have over 1,000 nuclear missiles, including ICBM technology.

35 posted on 11/11/2001 7:15:02 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: harpseal; Travis McGee; Spirit Of Truth; Manny Festo
Jihad knowledge bump concerning the Hindu struggle against Islam.
36 posted on 11/11/2001 7:18:50 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Maybe I just don't see it. How will losing Kashmir, a predominantly Muslim area anyway, bag the Jihadists all of India?
37 posted on 11/11/2001 7:20:10 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Again, you are either misinformed, or are believing the propaganda. Hindus do not kill Christians, Muslims do.

Wrong, pal. You're the one who's "believing the propaganda.

Here: this will start your education. It's from that notorious Pakistani propaganda organ, Amnesty International. Have you heard of them?

And here's a good next step.

And if that's not enough, go to Yahoo and query on "Hindu killing Christian". You'll get dozens more.

38 posted on 11/11/2001 7:23:59 PM PST by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
That rings a bell. That is what Jinnah and his lunatic Islamic followers said when they forced Gandhi and Nehru to painfully carve out "Pakistan" out of India nearly 40 years ago. They declared generally that, "how will losing Northern India, (a.k.a. Pakistan), a predominantly Muslim area anyway, bag the Muslims all of India?"

Kashmir is the nerve center and bread basket of India. It is the only region in India that sustains the veritable life-force of the people of India in every way.

Kashmir is famous for its beauty and natural scenery throughout the world. Its high snow-clad mountains, scenic spots, beautiful valleys, rivers with ice-cold water, attractive lakes and springs and ever-green fields, dense forests and beautiful health resorts, enhance its grandeur and are a source of great attraction for tourists.

It is also widely known for its different kinds of agricultural products, fruit, vegetables, saffron, herbs, minerals, precious stones handicrafts like woollen carpets, shawls and finest kind of embroidery on clothes. During summer, one can enjoy the beauty of nature, trout fishing, big and small game hunting etc.; during winter climbing mountain peaks and sports like skating and skiing on snow slopes are commonly enjoyed . In addition to the above, Pilgrimage to famous religious shrines of the Hindus and the Muslims make Kashmir a great tourist attraction. About Kashmir Sheikh Sadia great Persian poet is believed to have said said, "If there is any heaven on earth, it is here in Kashmir."

Political Importance

The state of Jammu and Kashmir has acquired since the 19th century a unique geo-political status in the Indian sub-continent. It has contiguous boundaries with Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and Tibet that deserve constant vigil and as such it has made the State very important. Geographically, politically, economically and from the military point of view. The Jammu and Kashmir state acceded to the Indian Union in 1947 after the partition. Before the partition in 1947, The English rulers of India took away Gilgit in 1946 from the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir on lease for thirty years so that they could check the advancement of Russia towards India."

Geographical and Political Importance of the State

39 posted on 11/11/2001 7:28:24 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Lent
Hindu Temples: What happened to Them Vol. 1



Hindu Temples

WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM                     

VOLUME 1, A Preliminary Survey

Complied & Edited By

Sita Ram Goel


Published By Voice of India

New Delhi, India





Section I : ISLAMIC ICONOCLASM


40 posted on 11/11/2001 7:32:01 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Campion
Did you forget that little ditty about Christians killing Jews in World War II? Or how about the Turkish Islamics exterminating the Armenians? Maybe you prefer the mass killings perpetrated by Stalin which claimed 1/3 of the people of the Ukraine. Which is more obscene, the mass extermination of an entire race of people with full permission of the government, or a few misguided hooligans assaulting another band of people? Look at the big picture, you moron. The India government, which is a democracy, has never sanctioned violence against anybody based on religion. In fact, it punishes it as soon as it sees it.
41 posted on 11/11/2001 7:33:39 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Jinnah was a great man and a visionary. He only backed out of the unified Indian National Congress when they refused to compromise on items of civil rights for Muslims. If, as you claim, Jinnah was a lunatic, then certainly it was Gandhi who hypnotized the Hindus.

BTW, you didn't answer my question: how will losing "the beauty of nature, trout fishing, big and small game hunting" destroy India?

42 posted on 11/11/2001 7:39:38 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Campion
Let's put this thing in perspective Campion. The Hindus have never undertaken Jihads. There are Hindu extremists no doubt much of this is a reaction to the centuries of Islamic death and destruction wrought on the Indian sub-continent against the Hindus. Prime Minister Vajpayee has called for religious tolerance and spoken out against the persecution of Christians in India by the extremists. But a Hindu extremist doesn't seek to export his position outside of India and create Jihads globally. Hindu extremists seek for the Hinduization of the Indian State. But just as people will fight for nationalist principles and extremists exist in many contexts so you have these in India. The point of this thread, however, is to understand the global Jihad and how it ravaged India and this entire area. India is a reflection of Islamic methodology.
43 posted on 11/11/2001 7:42:18 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
Jinnah was a megalomaniacal tyrant, and akin to Hitler in his ethnic cleansing of Hindus from Pakistan. The massive ethnic cleansing of 1947 in Jinnah's Pakistan is an example of self-determination of an evil variety. Pakistan lived up to its name by becoming a "cleansed land" within weeks of independence. And now Kashmir is taking a leaf out of Jinnah's book. Self-righteous chanters of "self-determination" with direct Pakistani assistance seem well on their way to stamping out religious diversity from Jammu and Kashmir. Will we never learn the cruel lessons of history? The previous UN Secretary General Boutros-Ghali put it about as bluntly as could be: "If every ethnic, religious or linguistic group claimed statehood, there would be no limit to fragmentation. Peace, security and economic well-being for all would become even more difficult to achieve." Self-determination for a group must never sanctify the violation of human rights of another. Automatic self-determination, for whosoever shouts the loudest, is a sure recipe for tragedies like Kashmir. It is the greatest of evils to allow one person's self-determination to degenerate into his neighbour's extinction. Kashmir desperately calls out for respite from fanatical Pakistani terrorists who have turned the land into a living hell. Abraham Lincoln courageously faced down those that chanted "secession" to perpetuate the evil of slavery. We, too, must confront those that chant "self-determination" in heedless pursuit of Jinnah's evil ideology of religious apartheid.
44 posted on 11/11/2001 8:02:32 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
So basically you are defending imperialism and colonialism by claiming that Islam could potentially be worse?
45 posted on 11/11/2001 8:06:09 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Unfortunately I think the Muslims got a shot of courage when the Bosnian Muslims undertook their breakaway activities from Yugoslavia. Where Yugoslavia was completely within her rights under international law to put down this "self-determination" (civil war) by force the West particularly saw it as an opportunity to destroy and fragment a sovereign European country which never did anything to hurt the West. I hope India will be left to her own devices in putting down these Islamics in Kashmir. Notice how Bush has backed off saying anything more about Putin's activities in Chechnya in putting down the Jihad there.
46 posted on 11/11/2001 8:11:35 PM PST by Lent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
Bump for truths not often acknowleged in America. We need to know the truth beyond what the Saudis tell us.
47 posted on 11/11/2001 8:12:11 PM PST by newwahoo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Lejes Rimul
In a way, yes. This is because Imperialism/Colonialism is a whore, selling out to the highest bidder. No one commits a "suicide terror act" in the name of Imperialism or Colonialism. But for religion, many hundreds of people have done so, in recent history. That is the danger of Islam.

Musharraf IS terrorism. I do not understand U.S. policy regarding these Muslims fanatics. We should have killed Saddam Hussein back in the Gulf War. We should have killed Osama bin Ladin years ago, after all of the incidents of global terrorism. And we should now, bomb the living shit out of Pakistan and kill Musharraf, because I promise you, if we strengthen him and trust him, he will rear his ugly head again. Islam has a pattern. It's pretty obvious that these guys, even when allowed to leave with their lives, always come back stronger, better armed, more sneaky, and much more insidious.

48 posted on 11/11/2001 8:12:14 PM PST by American_Patriot_For_Democracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: American_Patriot_For_Democracy
We keep Saddam around because he suits our needs. He's the bad cop to our good cop, the stick to our carrot. How else would we justify our military presence in the Gulf?
50 posted on 11/11/2001 8:18:32 PM PST by Lejes Rimul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-62 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson