Posted on 11/13/2001 12:10:56 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator
However, the question still remains. Why would America's counterparts of Ultramontanism (Sobran, for example) adopt the very un-Catholic, un-Ultramontanist doctrine of rights libertarianism as their message? Why not simply shout "Throne and Altar?" I believe at least the elder (late) Brent Bozell openly identified with the Spanish Carlists and refrained from posing as Thomas Jefferson.
For whatever reason the First and Third strands of conservatism you mention seem to have blended into a single stream. But it still doesn't make any sense.
Please forgive me for repeating myself, but this paragraph of yours is simply delicious.
Now--why would someone with this view of the individual invoke Rothbardian libertarianism? That is the question.
At this particular point in time in American politics, many wish for a return to traditional America which happened to enjoy small government and respect for individual rights as well as respect for Christian tradition, and so the wishes of libertarians and conservatives align -- not due to a common philosophy, but due to a circumstance.
Excuse me, O Unbelieving One, but you must be about two years old. My little crusade against people like you grows directly out of my experience with rightwing groups during the Cold War, when my simple little Bible Belt beliefs were shaken to their foundation by what I discovered.
Your implication that "paleos" merely began criticizing Israel when the Cold War ended is false and disengenuous. I was a member of a rightwing organization during the height of the Cold War, and the Right Wing was rabidly anti-Israel throughout the course of that conflict. This was at the same time that it was rabidly interventionist in every other case. They wanted us to support Rhodesia. They wanted us to support South Africa. They wanted us to support Somoza. They wanted us to support Taiwan. They were interventionist and national-security oriented to a fault, but they made one exception: they did not want to intervene on behalf of Israel because they didn't like Israel.
Any perusal of far right publications and literature during the Cold War era will illustrate the truth of my words and your own disingenuousness.
Furthermore, you illustrate well the arbitrary nature of your own prejudices when you call support for Israel "globalist." Support for Israel against its enemies is no more inherently "globalist" than is support for Taiwan against Communist China, as you are well aware. Your arbitrary classification of pro-Israelism as globalist as opposed to (for example) support of Taiwan outs you completely.
This is the guy who thinks Fundamentalists are "stooges," right?
Bet you don't say that to them when you need them to march in anti-abortion protests with you. Assuming you're even against abortion in the first place.
Interesting. Makes more sense than ones I've seen that separate libertarianism and authoritarianism from right and left without specifying what right and left mean. I have a question, though. Traditional and novel what? Morals can't be it, unless you're already at the state end of the first axis, because for a libertarian, tradition vs. novelty is simply not a political issue He may care about it passionately, but would never get the government involved.
For creating and perpetuating the most mature discussion/debate I have yet seen on FR.
If only more of the posts concerning Israel, Political Philosophy labels/definitions, Personalities, etc. could be so polite and erudite.
Many thanks.
You recall that Goldwater, whom many of us would consider to have been our particular Pied Piper, always described himself as a "19th Century Liberal".
What you get is what you get, regardless of labels.
BOSWELL: Is it necessary to believe all the Thirty-nine articles[of the Church of England]It is quite possible for a man to agitate for certain principles, yet not be a True Believer in them. Not because he is a two-faced liar, but because he knows that far worse principles are running about, and the common good of the nation requires a modicum of peace between competing systems, lest we perish in an ideological civil war. I do not know if this method is at work within paleoconservative thought.
JOHNSON: "Why, sir, that is a question which has been much agitated. Some have held it necessary that all be believed. Others have considered them to be only articles of peace, that is to say, you are not to preach against them.
-Boswell's Life of Johnson
U.S. support for Israel is inherently Globalist. Israel is on the other side of the globe. Globalists created the modern state of Israel. U.S. supports Israel often in contradiction to it's own self-interest.
Well, it was good while it lasted.
Anything that is the topic on hand: economic, political, cultural. A conservative would argue that the traditinal way is better and a liberal would argue that the innovative way is better. Depending on where the proponent of a certain view happens to stand on the Libertarian/Socialist axis, he would proceed to argue for an individualist or statist implementation of that view.
For example (intentionally contrived a bit), a liberal would argue that the Eastern religions should be taught in schools because that would refresh the minds of mostly Christian kids. If he is also a libertarian he would press for relaxation of government immigration and education policy so that American kids could more easily get their high school education in Tibet; if he is a statist he would push for a federal mandate effect the same change. A conservative would argue the opposite: that since most are traditionally Christian, Christian basics should be taught in schools: a statist conservative would again push for a mandate and a libertarian conservative would place his hopes on the free market to deliver Christian education.
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