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In Phoenix, We're Terrorists!
Sierra Times/KABA ^ | 14 Nov 01 | Self

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:04:30 PM PST by 11B3

Do you defend the Constitution? If the police pull you over, do you want to know why? Have you ever "hacked"? Are you alone? Well, guess what Freepers - if you can answer "Yes" to any of these questions (and a whole bunch more that fits nearly everyone), then you are a terrorist! Instead of continuing my rant, I'll show you the tri-fold pamphlet that this info comes from so that you can do your own ranting. Here it is:

Front Page

Back Page


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: billofrights
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To: bakatare
"Christian identity can and will be interpreted in many ways."

Of course it can.

So can "Christian Scientist" and "Jehovah's Witness".

The word for people who interpret those phrases in many ways is "idiot".

CI is a well-known abomination.

51 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:12 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: 11B3
I wonder if this means Rep. Ron Paul will be led away in chains, and possibly, me, because I called into C-SPAN yesterday expressing concerns about the "Patriot's" Act vis a vis the Constitution. I even accused the Repbulican leaders in the House of possible subterfuge regarding this law.
52 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:17 PM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: 11B3
I wonder if this means Rep. Ron Paul will be led away in chains, and possibly, me, because I called into C-SPAN yesterday expressing concerns about the "Patriot's" Act vis a vis the Constitution. I even accused the Republican leaders in the House of possible subterfuge regarding this law.
53 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:17 PM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: 11B3

Sonnovabitch!!

Did I just read what I thought it read???

- Defenders of the US Constitution...

TERRORISTS

No more talk it's time to put and end to this now!!
54 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:17 PM PST by Verax
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To: Verax
It seems now you are labeled a terrorist if you were to stand on a street corner and read the US Consitution out loud, or pass out copies of it to everyone you see and suggest they read it.
55 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:18 PM PST by FITZ
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To: DLfromthedesert
Rep Paul is one of the few with that distinction, I'm afraid. You can bet Hillary and the other POS politicians are quite safe. I wonder who is going to arrest the military though.....
56 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:19 PM PST by 11B3
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To: Verax
Maybe this is why teachers are too afraid to teach anything about the Consitution to the students, they can be arrested for being terrorists if they mention it.
57 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:19 PM PST by FITZ
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To: bakatare
The "Christian Identity" group from what I have seen in the past was anything but Christian. Although one wouldn't know it from the pamphlet.

The handout is just a bit too naively simplistic in its approach. You might as well handout a flyer to arrest anybody who is mean. The US isn't tooled up domestically to organize an antiterror effort and it appears that the political move from the top down has chosen the "War on Terror" to begin to shift public opinion and that the politics will shake out an organized response. Thought provoking and threatening to common law.

58 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:20 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: Don Joe
Just a plain ole' CHRISTIAN!
59 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:20 PM PST by kcvl
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To: Don Joe
You're such a lovely person so early in the morning.
60 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:20 PM PST by kcvl
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To: FITZ
About 4 years ago Command and Staff College required readings also flagged these descriptors as threats in modern age to US strategy. It seems as though a giant leap occured from identifying some extremists, their justification for their actions, and then labeling all proponents who label themselves as US Constitutional patriots as "right-wing" extremeists. A dangerous doublespeak.
61 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:21 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: Verax
People I am serious...we need to verify the validity of this brochure...get the word out today to everyone and everyone and bring SERIOUS pressure to bear on the President to respond to the fact that his FBI is branding "defenders of the Constitution as terrorist!

Is everyone just talk on this board or can we get some ideas going.

I'm leaving work in 5 minutes, and I'm getting on the phone to this Sherrifs office when I get home.

Then, I'm faxing this all over the GD country!!!!!!!!!

What about you????


62 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:22 PM PST by Verax
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To: 11B3
Make numerous references to the Constitution? So lawyers, Social Studies teachers, and judges are terrorists?

Para-military training? The FBI and BATF finally qualify!

Police the police? The FBI again, and the Internal Affairs division of every force gets lumped in.

Urban riot agitators? Have Rodney King and OJ Simpson been notified?

Lone individuals? So now the entire population at every Star Trek convention is suspect? Well, it's about time! =^)

Insurgents, rebels? Pee-Wee Herman? ("I'm a loner, Dottie, a rebel.")

63 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:23 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: 11B3
Is this a Clinton leftowver, or dies Justice need to be purged of the Clintonistas, still?

(Rhetorical question.)

64 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:26 PM PST by FReethesheeples
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To: Restorer
Welcome to profiling. Not as much fun when you fit the profile, is it?

ROTFLMAO!

I'm probably in deep doo-doo as I've got not one but two copies of the Constitution in my daytimer.

65 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:27 PM PST by zeugma
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To: 11B3
This reminds me of the 29 Palms Survey given to marines in 1994

46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms. Consider the following statement: I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.

66 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:27 PM PST by TooBusy
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To: Verax
Is everyone just talk on this board...
I'm being convinced, quite effectively at that, that if I enjoy my "freedom from incarceration" that is almost funny I had better not say anything.
What good can I do imprisoned? Who can I reach? Everyone there would already know the Constitution. The ones needing to know about it would be outside!
Oh yeah...I can "overcrowd the jails" through dissent...while gaining a "record".
< /satire >
67 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:27 PM PST by philman_36
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To: Verax
I've already sent this to the DoD as well. I'm still not sure about the DoJ. I'll get it off to my Congresscritters (the ones who don't eat from a colostomy bag) this morning. Yes, the White House should see it for sure.
68 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:28 PM PST by 11B3
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To: kcvl
"Just a plain ole' CHRISTIAN!"

Whew! :)

Same here.

69 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:32 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: 11B3
How fascinating. No mention of Mexican Separatist organizations, such as the Brown Berets or the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, or for that matter, the Earth Liberation Front fruitcakes who have recently been making threats in Tucson and who are suspected of home fires in Phoenix.
70 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:33 PM PST by Regulator
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To: DCE
Seen this yet?
"Why Grandma, what big eyes you have..."
71 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:33 PM PST by philman_36
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To: Regulator
No mention of ... the Earth Liberation Front fruitcakes who have recently been making threats in Tucson and who are suspected of home fires in Phoenix.

Under "Single Issue Groups" it refers to Animal Rights and Environmentalist groups.

72 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:34 PM PST by Restorer
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: kcvl
"You're such a lovely person so early in the morning."

It ain't me, it's the coffee. The lack thereof, to be specific. :)

Seriously, I just get cranky when I see CI "slipping in under the radar" as it were. "Christian Identity" about as closely related to Christianity as Louie Farrakhan is. And probably a whole lot more dangerous.

IIRC that Harris guy (the one who says he thinks he may have to use Anthrax against the US) is aligned with that bunch.

"Christian Identity" is to Christianity what "gay" is to happiness.

74 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:35 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: 11B3
this pamphlet is proof positive that sheriff Joe Arpaio is a jack-ass. I voted for the Democrat candidate for sheriff last year. If we had a democrat in the sheriff's spot who allowed this, then I'd try to vote Reform Party for this. If you oppose this pamphlet profoundly as any decent citizen would, then it is your obligation to vote against this Republican Arpaio.

Don't cop out and say that the sheriff can't overrule the FBI, that's ridiculous. The sheriff controls his own resources and if he's taking orders from fascists in the federal government, then he's not our servant. Be a slave and vote Republican or be free and rebel.

75 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:35 PM PST by Red Jones
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To: 11B3
In other threads the naysayers whine incessantly "If you don't do anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?" Here it is boy's and girl's, thanks to the un-PATRIOT ACT, everyone @ FR is a TERRORIST! Doesn't take a kook to have seen this coming, but it does take a kook to lay down and take it! Blackbird.
76 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:42 PM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: 11B3
I guess I'm a right wing extremist. Hmmmmmm..........
77 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:44 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: TooBusy
"This reminds me of the 29 Palms Survey"

While the 29 Palms survey was at face value ominous, it turned out that the guy who put it together was doing so as kind of a term paper or dissertation, and IIRC was definitely not the type to advocate what he was testing for. (Still, I don't doubt that it served as a prototype for some of the bad apples who wouldn't mind seeing such stuff happen.)

This flyer, however, really isn't in the same league. It lists a bunch of fringe groups of the type that have historically been responsible for spawning some pretty nasty characters like McVeigh, Harris (the anthrax guy), etc.

It's not targetting the Baptist Church (or Assemblies of God, etc.), but inasmuch as it seems to be giving a lot of folks the impression that it is targetting law-abiding citizens, I think it might be prudent for them to revise it and "disambiguate" the language. (If nothing else, maybe a press release saying who they're not going after.)

78 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:44 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: 11B3
Well, I did like seeing the part about calling the FBI if you see people like the clintons:

"Left-wing terrorists -- motivation is usually Marxist/Leninist philosophy."

79 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:52 PM PST by texasbluebell
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To: 11B3
That pamphet is like somebody's boss told them to draw that up and have it on his desk in 10 minutes.
Where did the Nuclear weapons idea for domestic terrorists come into play anyway ?
Are there people here toting nukes around that we should be a little suspicious they may have terrorism in mind ?
Am I living under a rock here ?
80 posted on 11/16/2001 1:05:58 PM PST by usastandsunited
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To: 11B3
Just got home from work...

Just called Al Shearer's number listed on the brocure...

He claims he's been gettig a lot of calls, people accusing him (he used harassing) of treason, etc. I said I was only trying to give him an opportunity to confirm/deny the validity of this brochure...he quickly referred me to an FBI phone number (602/279-5511)

Calling Terry Chapman at Sherriffs office now...

Stay tuned for more....

81 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:00 PM PST by Verax
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To: Verax
UDPATE

Terry Chapman's TN is a bad number...his voice mail gives another number 602/256-1225...no answer here...

Calling main number at Maricopa County Sherrifs office now to get to public relations officer...

82 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:02 PM PST by Verax
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To: 11B3
And if you are a foreign national and do any of these things, you will be tried by a military tribunal rather than a civilian court, under Bush's new executive order
83 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:04 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: Verax
KEEP US POSTED.
84 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:07 PM PST by ppaul
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To: Verax
Just got off the phone with the FBI in Arizona...

Duty office says she's not aware of this document...I volunteered to fax it to them and she accepted.

Faxing document now to FBI 602/251-3438...

85 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:09 PM PST by Verax
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To: SauronOfMordor
And if you are a foreign national and do any of these things, you will be tried by a military tribunal rather than a civilian court, under Bush's new executive order

That's a SECRET military tribunal, to be exact. No public trial. Secret proceedings.

86 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:09 PM PST by ppaul
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To: 11B3
I'm so glad making numerous references to the Constitution makes me a terrorist. The FF were considered terrorists by King George.
87 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:11 PM PST by Liberal Classic
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To: Wm Bach
--bingo-rama, you got it. Question authority, you are a terrorist. Want to see a return of the english languge in law, you are a terrorist.

Remember the old historical criteria for becoming a fibber agent, you had to be either a lawyer or an accountant. Which then translates to you had to professionaly have an interest in "legalese" as the official language, not english, and in making your money off of convulted tax code mostly. And it's the commerce clause and the tax code that really dictates how this executive branch dictated government works in reality, and why they are terrified of english language constituional law advocates. The separation of powers is the biggest scam running.

So, the lawcountants done jern up into this scam, and get given a gun and a badge and a license to break the law to make sure that those aspects of "life' remain paramount.

Money, control, accumulation of power, it's always the same old song and dance with dictatorships once they start down that path, and always couched in extreme terms, you either support the king/dictator or you are a rebel worthy of persecution and destruction. The sad part is the sheer numbers of people who willingly see political reality this way, who seem to think their particular latest king has this magical exception to the rule that he isn't despotic, that it's only the "other king" and his court that are the despots, when in reality it matters little which little dictator kinglet appears to be in charge, it's the entrenched royal retinue that never changes year in and year out that is "in charge" and you NEVER get to 'vote" on those gents.

88 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:11 PM PST by zog
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To: Verax
I decided to call my Congressmen first...CYA

just got off the phone with Rep. Tom Tancredo's office...I'm emailing the brouchure and link to this thread to: carol.koepper@mail.home.gov

Hope someone is saving the info in this thread (just in case)...Stay tuned...

89 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:12 PM PST by Verax
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To: *BillOfRights; wwjdn
bump
90 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:16 PM PST by Khepera
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To: 11B3
This is laughable. The FBI depends on the militia or will depend on the militia defending the constitution sooner or later. They can say whatever they want about right wingers, right wingers are the only ones capable of defending life, US interests and government assets. So they better shove it and accept this inevitability. The worse it will get, the more the militia will become important. Hiring Chinese soldiers won't cut it and will be too expensive. I'm willing to bet that a militia man is cheaper than the cheapest of Chinese couli out there, because the militia are not slaves, they leverage their volunteer work with personal investments in security.

Be patient, and they will beg us.

91 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:17 PM PST by lavaroise
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To: Red Jones; 11B3
I voted for the Democrat candidate for sheriff last year.....Be a slave and vote Republican or be free and rebel.

Yeah. And vote for a domocRAT like you did?!!
Gimme a break.

Give us all a break.

:

92 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:23 PM PST by ppaul
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To: lavaroise
Be patient, and they will beg us.

Things would have to be really bad for that to happen.

Not that they aren't heading that way, mind you...

93 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:23 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: 11B3
It seems to be a bunch of B.S. more than anything else. Typical product of ignorant CNN-brainwashed beaurocrats. They will get what they deserve. LOL.

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag loses it’s meaning these days, it basically stands for loyalty to whoever happens to be at the top at a given moment. I’d propose The Pledge of Allegiance to the Constitution instead.

94 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:24 PM PST by Infinite Perfection
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To: Infinite Perfection
bad request?

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/4690/Pledge.htm

95 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:25 PM PST by Infinite Perfection
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To: Verax
Contents of email to my Congressmen...

Honorable Tom Tancredo
Attn: Carol Koeppen
5901 S Middlefield Rd. Suite 100
Littleton, CO 80123-2877

November 14, 2001 - 9:00AM MST

Dear Carol,

I just spoke with you about the brochure that is
circulating on the web. As I stated in our phone
conversation, I have attempted to call each phone number
displayed on the brochure.

At 8:05AM MST, I called the Maricopa County Attorney's
office and spoke with a man who identified himself as Al
Shearer. He relayed that he had been receiving
a "flood of calls", some which he characterized
as "harassing". He stated that he had no knowledge of the
brochure until he began to get calls this morning.
He referred me to FBI telephone number 620/279-5511

Next, I called the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office at 602/256-1795. I was unable to get through to Terry
Chapman. I called the main # at the Sheriff's office and asked for Public Relations. I was put through to a voice
mail, but did not leave a message - the voice mail also provided a pager for the media but I did not use it.

At 8:16AM, I called the FBI number that I was given in the
first call...602/279-5511

The person who answered at the FBI transferred me to the
Duty Officer. I explained the situation to the
duty officer and offered to fax her an image file of the
brochure. She stated that she was unaware of the document and agreed to have me fax it. She stated that she would then bring it to her supervisor for more
information. She asked me for a call back number, and I offered to call her back in a while.

Then I called you.

Attached please find the image file of the brochure which
identifies "defenders of the US Constitution against federal government and the UN".
I look forward to a reply with Mr. Tancredo's comment on this as soon as possible. I will be copying your office on
any written communications I have in this matter.

Thank you,

Sincerely

96 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:30 PM PST by Verax
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To: Don Joe
Take me away! I believe in the Bible and the Constitution...I am a dual offender!
97 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:38 PM PST by wwjdn
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To: Restorer
TERRORIST or PATRIOT? Blackbird.
98 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:39 PM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: 11B3
Update...

Just faxed brochure to the FBI duty officer

99 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:40 PM PST by Verax
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To: 11B3
The valid criticism here is that this FBI leaflet does not specifically address foreign terrorists, leading one to wonder if it is not a "pre-9/11" design specifically oriented toward known terrorist threats in the Southwest. Beyond that, however, the leaflet seems harmless enough. It does not target "defenders of the the Constitution" per se, it calls for information on (self-proclaimed) " 'Defenders' of US Constitution against federal government and the UN (Super Patriots)". This may seem like a "distinction without a difference" to Super Patriots, but anyone with the ability to think critically will understand that this is not a frontal assault on political conservatives (especially considering the fact that the leaflet specifically mentions "left-wing" groups and causes).
100 posted on 11/16/2001 1:06:47 PM PST by pawdoggie
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