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Facing Facts About Africa & Slavery
DailyNews.com ^ | Original Publication Date: 11/16/01 | Stanley Crouch

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:34 PM PST by tberry

Facing Facts About Africa & Slavery

he simpleminded vision of Africa in Alex Haley's "Roots" has made it hard for many Afro-Americans to see the shortcomings of Islam and black Africa clearly.

The picture became less fuzzy for those who were at Columbia University on Wednesday night when the American Anti-Slavery Group co-hosted an organization of Muslims from the African nation of Mauritania, who are here as part of an international movement to end slavery.

The speakers included Nasser Yessa, foreign secretary of SOS Slaves Mauritania, who works out of Paris; SOS's North American representative, Moctar Cheine, and Ahmeimidi Khaliva, who was born into slavery but escaped at age 25 and now, in his 40s, has harrowing tales to tell.

Nasser Yessa was born into a slave-owning family, but he rejected the chattel tradition after coming under the influence of French democratic ideas and the writings of Jews who survived World War II's death camps.

He said slavery has existed in his country for more than 800 years and was practiced all around black Africa long before the Europeans came along and joined in. That is a fact that is bound to disturb those who don't want to hear ill about the motherland.

Yessa formed his organization in 1995 along with Boubacar Messaoud, another who was born a slave in Mauritania. Messaoud is still in his country working against slavery, where it is supposedly illegal. It has, in fact, been outlawed three times since 1905 but continues to thrive. Muslim slaves, the audience was told, are taught that if they disobey their masters, they won't go to paradise when they die.

Yessa said that his organization declined to sign the propositions agreed on at the recent international conference on racism in South Africa because "they refused to address slavery in Africa under Islamic regimes, slavery under black regimes, racism among Arabs and tribal hatreds that have led to slaughter among black Africans."

Yessa and Cheine said they have often been condemned as tools of the Zionists or the whites because of their criticisms of fellow Muslims and black Africans. This should be familiar to those Afro-Americans who have long been frowned upon for pulling the covers off race hustlers, rabble-rousers, leaders of hate cults, buffoon academics and so on.

Yessa, who is a devoted Muslim, said that justice must come before religion, that all who do not respect the rights of others should be exposed before the eyes of the world and that there should be an international standard of human rights and dignity that focuses world policy.

He is well aware of the fact that such ideas came from Western society but thinks of them, rightly, as part of his human heritage, not conceptions that he was automatically alienated from because he was born into another culture.

Yessa and Cheine wondered why their cause has yet to be embraced by Afro-American leadership. I told them the leadership has yet to grow up on such questions but that we are now on the verge of a new era in which their movement will become more and more important.

For information on SOS and the movement at large, go to iabolish.com — you will learn much.

E-mail: scrouch@edit.nydailynews.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: africawatch

1 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:34 PM PST by tberry
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To: tberry
If they don't be victims, they don't be gettin checks!
2 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:51 PM PST by Nitro
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To: tberry
Muslim slaves, the audience was told, are taught that if they disobey their masters, they won't go to paradise when they die.

Islam and slavery go together like a wink and a smile.

3 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:58 PM PST by Maceman
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To: tberry
Stanley Crouch is one interesting man.
4 posted on 11/16/2001 1:24:32 PM PST by aculeus
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To: Maceman
Islam and slavery go together like a wink and a smile.

So did slavery and the old south. Nothing new here.

5 posted on 11/16/2001 1:24:42 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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I wonder if they will teach that slavery has been in Africa for centuries before the whites arrived and is still being practiced? Nah, it would disturb the PC crowd too much.
6 posted on 11/16/2001 1:24:44 PM PST by Eternal_Bear
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To: aculeus
That he is.
7 posted on 11/16/2001 1:24:51 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Elihu Burritt
Nothing new here.

Actually, there are two things new here: first of all, WE don't do it anymore; and, secondly, it was NEW only when it got to this country; they'd been doing it for years.

Oh, and they are STILL doing it and we're not; I'm sure that fact really bothers you.

8 posted on 11/16/2001 1:24:57 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Elihu Burritt
So did slavery and the old south. Nothing new here.

The slaves in the old south owe their passage there to Islam, which sold them in the first place.

9 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:13 PM PST by Maceman
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To: Howlin
Oh, and they are STILL doing it and we're not; I'm sure that fact really bothers you.

It bothered my ancestors. That's why they went South for a couple years to end. But you see, the people who do these things do it out of ignorance and stupidity, and the thing that needs to be done is to go in and stop them and educate them. It took a long time in the South, but we finally did it.

10 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:07 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Maceman
The slaves in the old south owe their passage there to Islam, which sold them in the first place.

Not so for the most part. Islam was primarily only an alternate buyer of secondary choice, and mostly in areas more directly sub-saharan. Most blacks were bought directly from blacks. In fact, one of the reasons slavery was ended earlier in England the European states with commercial shipping fleets is that the crews found the blacks to make excellent sailors as well as merchants. Southerners never caught on because they were largely too lazy to work at that kind of hard labor such a ship-building or sailing. If you couldn't do it from a hammack with a black wench, it wasn't interesting to them.

11 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:08 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Elihu Burritt
Housework part of sentence for woman who enslaved African teen-ager

A woman who kept a teen-ager from Africa

12 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:08 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Elihu Burritt
But you see, the people who do these things do it out of ignorance and stupidity

I see. Here in this country, the South did it for money.

Over in Africa, if they do it, it's not because it's for money -- it's because they're too uneducated to not know any better?

BS

13 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:09 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin
I think Elihu Burrett's problem is that he doesn't understand two simple facts: Many Southern Plantations were owned by northerners and; slavery WASN'T just in the South. It was all over the East Coast, throughout the 13 colonies and, once formed, the states. It just so happens that the southern climate was more conducive to agriculture, ergo more slaves were here to work the farms.

Guess he also missed the article a couple of years ago about the numerous slave bodies that were discovered buried under a building in NEW YORK CITY.

14 posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:10 PM PST by Commonsense
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To: Commonsense
Probably a misunderstanding. Remember back when the South was forced to intergrate? How many more years was it before they intergrated Boston and the NE? Twenty?
15 posted on 11/16/2001 1:37:10 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Commonsense
Cherokees owned slaves as well.
16 posted on 11/16/2001 1:40:59 PM PST by nancetc
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To: tberry
FYI--

Slavery in Perspective

17 posted on 11/16/2001 3:42:54 PM PST by backhoe
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To: Howlin
I see. Here in this country, the South did it for money.

No, in the south it was done in ignorance. The negative aspects of it and the fiscal and moral decline of the south were well documented, the slave owning minority of the south that made fortunes on it actively hid the facts from the general populace. The minority were either idiots or hypocrits, the rest ignorant.

The profits for cotton were far outweighed by the loss in the rest of the southern economy and pshychological damage done in the creation of the white trash class.

18 posted on 11/16/2001 4:37:40 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Howlin
Probably a misunderstanding. Remember back when the South was forced to intergrate? How many more years was it before they intergrated Boston and the NE? Twenty?

Actually, Boston integrated in it's schools in the early 1820's. The South in the 1960's. It is true that Boston regressed as the Democrats and the socialists undermined the old systems and beliefs in the late 19th and early 20th century, but the North never sunk anywhere near the depths of the south.

19 posted on 11/16/2001 4:40:51 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Commonsense
I think Elihu Burrett's problem is that he doesn't understand two simple facts: Many Southern Plantations were owned by northerners and; slavery WASN'T just in the South. It was all over the East Coast, throughout the 13 colonies and, once formed, the states. It just so happens that the southern climate was more conducive to agriculture, ergo more slaves were here to work the farms.

Slavery ended in PA and MA in 1780. By 1828, the last few slaves above the Mason Dixon line were freed. As for the Southern climate, if that was true, northern agriculture would not have significantly out produced southern agriculture. The North hay crop alone was worth more that the southern cotton crop.

Guess he also missed the article a couple of years ago about the numerous slave bodies that were discovered buried under a building in NEW YORK CITY

Before the general enlightenment on the topic at the end of the 18th century in civilization, there were slaves in the north, though they were primarily served as house servants and not slave labor in the fields. The south, on the other hand, consistently regressed socially and financially as it increased it's number of slave laborers at hard labor.

20 posted on 11/16/2001 4:46:32 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Elihu Burritt
Well, you've just sealed any doubt I had from other threads I have seen you on about your intelligence and your party affiliation.

The were rioting in Boston YEARS after the South had settled down.

Get a clue.

21 posted on 11/16/2001 4:58:04 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Elihu Burritt
The south, on the other hand, consistently regressed socially and financially as it increased it's number of slave laborers at hard labor.

If it's so regressive down here, why do Yankees keep coming down here and staying?

22 posted on 11/16/2001 4:59:58 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Elihu Burritt
No, in the south it was done in ignorance.

Whew, I can't remember when I've read such a load of BS on here.

You seem to be new here, so let me give you the advice I give MOST people who show up at FR to "set us straight" on the facts.

We've got 'em.

Be prepared to back up every word you say.

We've been there, done that with better people than you.

And

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

23 posted on 11/16/2001 5:03:24 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Commonsense; Elihu Burritt
Many Southern Plantations were owned by northerners

At least in this area, the plantations with the largest numbers of slaves and the most mistreatment of slaves were owned by absentee northerners.

Some of the Southern slaveowners were black themselves. Many Southerners only owned a few slaves, and worked with them. Some slaveowners had regular work hours for the slaves, gave them their own little pieces of property for gardens, etc., and allowed them to work on their off days for their own profit. Some slaves were allowed to have guns, to hunt, or to protect the property.

I have seen old wills where the master freed his slaves (& sometimes left his property to them!) We also have to remember that, back then, there were endentured servants (usually white) who were no better than slaves during their servitude.

I've seen other wills where the slaves were allowed to choose which of the master's children they wanted to live with, or where the children were required to care for elderly slaves who were too old to work or support themselves.

In other words, all Southern slavery was NOT "If you couldn't do it from a hammack with a black wench, it wasn't interesting to them. "

Elihu Burritt is showing his ignorance with his generalizations. (BTW, Elihu, it's spelled "hammock")

24 posted on 11/16/2001 6:45:05 PM PST by Amelia
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To: Howlin
If it's so regressive down here, why do Yankees keep coming down here and staying?

The south has given up much of it's old ways, and as more Northerners settle there, it becomes increasingly civilized and productive. Nevertheless, the long standing lower standard of living makes it an attractive area for industrious and relatively wealthy Northerners seeking a inexpensive home for their retirement.

25 posted on 11/16/2001 6:52:58 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Elihu Burritt
Nevertheless, the long standing lower standard of living makes it an attractive area for industrious and relatively wealthy Northerners seeking a inexpensive home for their retirement.

So you're saying that Yankees WANT to leave in cheap houses?

26 posted on 11/16/2001 6:56:16 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin
Ah......live.
27 posted on 11/16/2001 7:04:51 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Elihu Burritt
By 1828, the last few slaves above the Mason Dixon line were freed
member since October 28th, 2001

Which, of course, was why the Emancipation Proclamation was so careful to state that it only freed slaves belonging to states "in rebellion", and not to the ones in union states.

yeah, right...no slaves up north? hahahahaha

That is why a coloured/negro/afro/black who attempted to attend a "white" school in Boston was wrapped in an American flag and set on fire. In the 1820s? Nope. 1860s? Nope. 1920s? Nope. 1960s? Nope. I believe it was in the late 1970s, when those great liberals who believe in NIMBY equality were busy celebrating in Massachusetts -- somewhere north of the Mason-Dixon.

Elihu, maybe you should go back to DU where your ignorance won't be as noticed.

28 posted on 11/16/2001 7:06:04 PM PST by womanvet
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To: Elihu Burritt
The south has given up much of it's old ways, and as more Northerners settle there, it becomes increasingly civilized and productive.

You are full of bull f*****g s... This post has been deleted by the moderator because of profanity and personal attacks.

Thought I'd save him the time...

29 posted on 11/16/2001 7:13:46 PM PST by womanvet
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To: tberry
I emailed him this article:

Facing Facts About Africa and Slavery - NY Daily News

Let's see if he'll respond.

30 posted on 11/16/2001 7:21:40 PM PST by BamaCharm
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To: womanvet
I don't think the expression "bull froggings" is profanity.
31 posted on 11/16/2001 7:22:52 PM PST by janus
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To: BamaCharm
My Mistake. Posted on wrong Thread.
32 posted on 11/16/2001 7:24:33 PM PST by BamaCharm
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Elihu Burritt
The south has given up much of it's old ways, and as more Northerners settle there, it becomes increasingly civilized

Actually, some of the old ways seem to have been given up, because of the increasing number of Yankees living down here. We could debate about the "increasingly civilized" however.

Nevertheless, the long standing lower standard of living makes it an attractive area for industrious and relatively wealthy Northerners seeking a inexpensive home for their retirement.

I'm amazed that someone would want a lower standard of living when they retired. Wonder why the Yankees don't just move to Mexico, or Afghanistan, or Africa, or somewhere else with a REALLY low standard of living?

34 posted on 11/16/2001 7:31:56 PM PST by Amelia
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To: Elihu Burritt
WAIT ...HOLD THE PRESS!?!?


Everything I hear, the blacks in this country still claim to be slaves? (Don't they?)

35 posted on 11/16/2001 7:36:11 PM PST by FUSSBALL
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To: Elihu Burritt
You are so ill-informed, and obviously a product of northern government schools.
36 posted on 11/16/2001 8:01:46 PM PST by Commonsense
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To: Amelia
I'm amazed that someone would want a lower standard of living when they retired. Wonder why the Yankees don't just move to Mexico, or Afghanistan, or Africa, or somewhere else with a REALLY low standard of living?

You have the true southern expertise in matters financial. A retired person is on a fixed income. Moving to an area where everything costs less makes that income go further. DOH!

They don't go to other countries because they already conquered the south once, plus, all their lives, part of their taxes goes to support the states in the south that have never been able to adequately support themselves. Since they have been paying for it, why not use it?

37 posted on 11/16/2001 8:19:39 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Elihu Burritt
You have the true southern expertise in matters financial. A retired person is on a fixed income. Moving to an area where everything costs less makes that income go further. DOH!

Oh, you meant lower COST of living?

38 posted on 11/16/2001 8:34:52 PM PST by Amelia
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To: Amelia
Oh you just don't get it, see, where Elihu Burritt comes from, "industrious and relatively wealthy" northerners like to go slumming, and they think the South is the place to do it. Mainly so their friends up north won't find out what they're really like.
39 posted on 11/16/2001 8:48:53 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Elihu Burritt
They don't go to other countries because they already conquered the south once, plus, all their lives, part of their taxes goes to support the states in the south that have never been able to adequately support themselves. Since they have been paying for it, why not use it?

They definitely should be going to New Mexico or Montana then - those two states receive, per capita, the most Federal spending per tax dollar paid. North Dakota, Alaska, South Dakota, and Hawaii are also in the Top Ten.

Note that these are NOT Southern states.

In the interest of fairness, the other 4 Top Ten states are Southern - they are Virginia, West Virginia, Mississippi, and Alabama. Virginia, Mississippi, and Alabama get a lot of defense expenditures, and West Virginia has Senator Robert Byrd.

40 posted on 11/16/2001 9:36:33 PM PST by Amelia
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To: hinckley buzzard
I'm sure Elihu thinks we're all named Bubba or Billie Sue, we marry our brothers and sisters, and we spend our weekends at KKK rallies.
41 posted on 11/16/2001 9:53:26 PM PST by Amelia
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To: Amelia
I wonder which of Elihu's greatly admired Yankee fellow citizens/friends are the descendants of the ships owners and crews which made themselves and their families rich by transporting the slaves to the South under the flag of the Union.

Having been New England born and Yankee bred I never saw a black person treated with respect until I came to Virginia to do graduate study. I certainly never knew a Yankee who extended tender loving care for black people until I met the family of my spouse. Note this was in the '50's and no laws were mandating such behavior.

42 posted on 11/17/2001 8:08:47 AM PST by Spirited
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To: Spirited
I know several black people who lived up north for a while, but moved back to the South because they said people down here were much less prejudiced.
43 posted on 11/17/2001 9:33:22 AM PST by Amelia
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To: Amelia
I know more than "several". We have a great discussions about that. Reality hit them like a ton of bricks. Seems they bought into the liberal northern lies, but thank God they're back to earth now.

Seems our buddy here is the reason the term "damn yankee" exists. M'Man is from Pennsylvania and he absolutely detests people who make comments like we've seen here. Says they give all yankees a bad name and does not hesitate to tell them so to their face. In his opinion, too many yankees coming down here have ruined the place since he came down 18 years ago. (By the way, he came down to ESCAPE the north, i.e., unions, multi prejudices like the prejudices towards Polish, Italians, Germans, not to mention Blacks, and doesn't hesitate to state that plainly and clearly either.)

44 posted on 11/18/2001 8:45:11 AM PST by Commonsense
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To: Commonsense
"Our buddy" seems to have tucked his tail & run home, huh?
45 posted on 11/18/2001 9:07:19 AM PST by Amelia
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To: Amelia
bump for reference
46 posted on 11/22/2001 6:27:57 AM PST by fnord
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To: tberry; *AfricaWatch
Index-
47 posted on 11/25/2001 4:28:18 AM PST by backhoe
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