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Harry Potter and The Lost Generations; Former New Ager Explains Potter Danger.
The Cross and the Veil ^ | Nov, 2001 | Clare McGrath Merkle

Posted on 11/21/2001 8:13:35 AM PST by marshmallow

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To: winslow; marshmallow
I'll bump for what you said...
141 posted on 11/26/2001 8:02:39 AM PST by packrat01
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Every one of those titles do not reference direct Wiccan spells and practices like Harry Potter does. I don't have a problem with fantasy stories as a general rule, but when the references are literally taken fron Wiccan texts it goes too far. If your child wanted to see a movie based on the wonders and joyous practices of militant Islam you probably wouldn't be too thrilled about it. In fact you just might stop them from seeing it.
142 posted on 11/26/2001 8:19:13 AM PST by Brett66
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To: Brett66
Militant Islam is real thing, and Harry Potter isn't. Big difference.
143 posted on 11/26/2001 8:47:02 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Paulus Invictus
I'm in the "pro" group (I have no problem with Harry, don't see it as pushing anything other than money). As for Buffy, probably the single most dangerous thing to the minds of the young in that show is her cleavage and how regularly they show it. But pubescent boys will get it somewhere, they always do. For me it was all about "Barker's Beauties" (The Price is Right) and praying that one of the grand prizes would have a nautical theme (Barker's Beauties in Bikini's, the 3Bs of my adolescence).

Actually I'm constructing a rather long post about being on the "otherside" of this subsection of the Christian Community for 20+ years. Not sure if it will ever see fruition, or how quickly it will get pulled if I do polish it up. Basically it's about how annoying these people have been with their constant crusades against any form of entertainment I myself enjoy. You name it, if they say it leads to Satanism I did it (D&D, heavy metal, Doom, etc. etc. {Yul Brenner accent} ET CETERA). And while I actually did study the occult for a while the reason I did was these guys, I wanted to find out what they were talking about; what I found was that they were pretty much making stuff up off the top of their heads (pretty much, there's some funky stuff in some heavy metal but in all my years in that crowd I've only met one person that listened to any of those bands, cause they suck).

Anyway, keep an eye out for that one. I'm sure the HP bashers will be all over it, praying for my soul.

144 posted on 11/26/2001 9:37:59 AM PST by discostu
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To: gumbo
Her ironic tone indicates she didn't actually believe in the "arts" --telepathy, necromancy, geomancy, time travel, etc.-- she was "teaching." So I see no justification for your or ctdonath2's distortion of her meaning.

Let's look at her exact words:

Before my audience is lost too, considering me a fear-mongering, fundamentalist, unimaginative critic of the series, may I introduce myself as a former New Age "healer" and advanced yoga practitioner. Many of the delightfully described magical arts in the Harry Potter series were pretty standard fare in training courses I mastered to some degree or another, including telepathy, divination, energy-work, necromancy, geomancy and time travel, to name but a few. I was quite close friends with wizards, warlocks and witches alike - all of us (psychologists, physicists, & other professionals) being in the business of the new science of the mind, defending our studies together as being of the white magic category, much like the wizardry school of Harry Potter.

Where's the ironic tone? I don't see it. She claims she "mastered" training courses in "telepathy, divination, energy-work, necromancy, geomancy and time travel." If she were stupid enough to believe in that garbage in the first taste, why should we listen to what she says now?

145 posted on 11/26/2001 9:47:42 AM PST by NYCVirago
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Wiccans are real. No difference.
146 posted on 11/26/2001 9:52:00 AM PST by Brett66
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To: NYCVirago
If she were stupid enough to believe in that garbage in the first taste, why should we listen to what she says now?

Are you telling us that nobody who once believed in "stupid stuff" can ever be believable again? I daresay a lot of us believed in a lot of stupid stuff --until we learned better. Perhaps you've been superior since birth.

Where's the ironic tone? I don't see it.

(1) she puts "healer" (as in "New Age 'healer'") in quotation marks. That might be a teeny-weeny hint she's being ironic;

(2) "...pretty standard fare in training courses I mastered to some degree or another..." - I think "pretty standard fare" exudes a detectable whiff of irony;

(3) "being in the business of the new science of the mind" - likewise.

But if, in the whole context of her article, you don't "see" (or perhaps hear) the irony, that's OK. Some people are tone-deaf, not their fault.

147 posted on 11/26/2001 10:14:44 AM PST by gumbo
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To: gumbo
Are you telling us that nobody who once believed in "stupid stuff" can ever be believable again? I daresay a lot of us believed in a lot of stupid stuff --until we learned better. Perhaps you've been superior since birth.

Geez, I guess it's just my superior attitude, but if somebody tells me she is an expert on the evils of Harry Potter because she trained in time travel and telepathy, I tend to think a little less of that person's judgment. It's like an adult taking classes in the reality of the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny giving me a lecture. It's like listening to the opinion of somebody who gets their advice from Miss Cleo.

But if, in the whole context of her article, you don't "see" (or perhaps hear) the irony, that's OK. Some people are tone-deaf, not their fault.

Could you possibly be any more condescending? Can you please make an argument without your smarmy, patronizing attitude? You act as if I personally insulted you in thinking this writer is full of it. What, are you the author of the article?

And you know what I see in this article? I don't see irony -- I see a writer who has a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality. I give her opinions about as much weight as I would give to the opinions of Shirley MacLaine.

148 posted on 11/26/2001 10:57:04 AM PST by NYCVirago
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To: 4Freedom
Sorry you didn't enjoy the film. We did. I have to say a few things, though. The film was too-o-o-o long. After 3 hours, we were squirming in our seats (chronic back problems.) I was also disappointed that the role of my favorite actor John Hurt, as Mr Olivander, (sp?) was only a cameo. We hadn't read the book, so everything was completely new to us. I guess without expectations, we have a totally different perception than you. I did find it entertaining.
Well....maybe the sequel will be different.
149 posted on 11/26/2001 12:30:34 PM PST by stanz
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To: 4Freedom
I forgot...I think the Nimbus 2000 will be the one favorite toy kids will want.
150 posted on 11/26/2001 12:32:16 PM PST by stanz
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To: NYCVirago
Geez, I guess it's just my superior attitude, but if somebody tells me she is an expert on the evils of Harry Potter because she trained in time travel and telepathy

She never said this, nor anything remotely like it.

Could you possibly be any more condescending? Can you please make an argument without your smarmy, patronizing attitude? You act as if I personally insulted you in thinking this writer is full of it. What, are you the author of the article?

Yes, yes (have already made the argument), and no.

I see a writer who has a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality.

I see a FReeper obstinately clinging to an opinion that has no basis in the author's words.

151 posted on 11/26/2001 1:25:38 PM PST by gumbo
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To: Brett66
Wiccans are not Satanists, they are pagans.
152 posted on 11/26/2001 1:51:35 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: gumbo
She never said this, nor anything remotely like it.

What are you talking about? From the headline on, "Former New Ager Explains Potter Danger," to her stating her expertise as an expert on the occult, that is exactly what she is saying.

I see a FReeper obstinately clinging to an opinion that has no basis in the author's words.

What did the author say?:

So, for those readers who believe Harry Potter's world to be a harmless fantasy or the science of magic to be the stuff of educative fairy tales, let me dispel those myths (no pun or magic intended) right up front....Truth be told, I graduated from these authors in my early teens into more meaty topics such as ESP, ghost hunting and parapsychology, experimenting with Ouiji boards, telepathy games, and automatic writing.

So, you don't believe someone who admits to believing in "ESP, ghost hunting and parapsychology" and who experimented with "Ouiji boards, telepathy games, and automatic writing" as having problems distinguishing fantasy from reality? I do.

153 posted on 11/26/2001 2:25:33 PM PST by NYCVirago
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To: NYCVirago
You and cdonath2 misrepresented the author, claiming she had ludicrously proclaimed herself capable of telepathy, time-travel, etc. (thereby justifying your conclusion that she was a moron, undeserving of any credit whatsoever).

This you both accomplished by distorting the grammatical contruction of the author's words in this passage:

"...may I introduce myself as a former New Age "healer" and advanced yoga practitioner. Many of the delightfully described magical arts in the Harry Potter series were pretty standard fare in training courses I mastered to some degree or another, including telepathy, divination, energy-work, necromancy, geomancy and time travel, to name but a few. I was quite close friends with wizards, warlocks and witches alike - all of us (psychologists, physicists, & other professionals) being in the business of the new science of the mind, defending our studies together as being of the white magic category, much like the wizardry school of Harry Potter.

Clearly, the author's word "mastered" takes as its object the "training courses" she engaged in as a "New Age 'healer' and...practitioner" (a phase of her life to which she refers with...dare I say it?...irony).

Clearly, she is NOT claiming powers of telepathy, necromancy, time travel, and other occult "arts," but rather an understanding of the the BUSINESS of hawking them.

So the passage quoted above, by any adult reading (by an adult conversant with grammar, that is), is not some wacko listing of the author's success in witchery, but a demonstration of her qualifications for judging the Harry Potter enterprise by listing her experience in the "business of the new science of the mind."

For J.K. Rowling is doing the same thing the author used to do: hawking the occult as a business.

The main difference between Rowling and this author is that Rowling is hawking her occult wares to the young and impressionable. AND, that Rowling is making multiple millions at it.

154 posted on 11/26/2001 8:30:17 PM PST by gumbo
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To: marshmallow
The Harry Potter stories teach kids that good overcomes evil. But the good that is depicted overcomes evil by using witchcraft to overcome itself. In other words, to overcome evil, you must practice evil. That is a no-win scenario for the kids. Witchcraft, spells, and other facets of the occult come from Satan. We cannot use Satan to overcome Satan. It just doesn't work that way. That is what many parents are missing when they defend these stories.
155 posted on 11/26/2001 8:38:28 PM PST by Don Myers
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Comment #156 Removed by Moderator

To: Brett66
Militant Islam is real thing, and Harry Potter isn't. Big difference. - Luis Gonzalez

Wiccans are real. No difference. -Brett66

So, there's no difference between militant Islam and Wicca? That certainly comes as a surprise to me. Please enlighten me by pointing out the widespread Wiccan movement that wants to forcibly convert the world to its religion and kill all nonbelievers. Or, if that's too much of a challenge, point out the tenants of Wicca that advocate violence period. I can wait a long time.

157 posted on 11/26/2001 8:51:11 PM PST by Polonius
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To: gumbo
So the passage quoted above, by any adult reading (by an adult conversant with grammar, that is), is not some wacko listing of the author's success in witchery, but a demonstration of her qualifications for judging the Harry Potter enterprise by listing her experience in the "business of the new science of the mind." For J.K. Rowling is doing the same thing the author used to do: hawking the occult as a business. The main difference between Rowling and this author is that Rowling is hawking her occult wares to the young and impressionable. AND, that Rowling is making multiple millions at it.

So what you're saying is, the author was a snake-oil salesman for the business of the occult. Again, why should anybody trust what she says now? Either she believed the New Age junk was real, which makes her woefully stupid, or she knew it was a fraud to begin with, which makes her a charlatan. Either way, she's not someone who is worthy of being taken seriously, especially when she is on the anti-Harry Potter soapbox.

158 posted on 11/26/2001 8:55:01 PM PST by NYCVirago
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To: NYCVirago
So, you don't believe someone who admits to believing in "ESP, ghost hunting and parapsychology" and who experimented with "Ouiji boards, telepathy games, and automatic writing" as having problems distinguishing fantasy from reality? I do.

You are again committing misrepresentation of the author's meaning, though this time you do not use grammatical legerdemain as noted in post 154, but sheer dishonesty.

The author does not "admit" to currently "believing in" ESP, ghost hunting, etc. (Nor does she say she ever "believed in" those things, for that matter.) She is speaking of her past dabblings in these practices as a teenager -- again, for the purpose of demonstrating her experience in the same areas of the occult as Rowling purveys in her books.

An honest reading of the author's article would lead to the conclusion that the author definitely does NOT now "believe in" these practices, if she ever did.

Your post 153, OTOH, again provokes the conclusion that you are, indeed, a superior person. You have never, since birth, had a foolish thought, taken a foolish class, or "believed in" a foolish thing. I bow down to your superior wisdom!

159 posted on 11/26/2001 8:55:44 PM PST by gumbo
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To: Polonius
Militant Islam is real and Wicca is real, please pay attention.
160 posted on 11/26/2001 9:15:05 PM PST by Brett66
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