New Federal Patriot Act Turns Retailers into Spies against Customers

The Boston Globe ^ | 11/28/2001 | By Scott Bernard Nelson, The Boston Globe

[TheOtherOne]

This isn't an issue of a person's papers?

I don't think so. But I'm not a lawyer.

I am, and I do.

[Mercuria]

"There's a war going on! And this stuff isn't going to be used against AMERICAN CITIZENS!!"

unless you happen to have 10 grand in cash on you, but that isn't the MAJORITY of us, so why should we care?

[Mercuria]

!!!!

[MissAmericanPie]

Yup, (suckin on a toothpick) this is all going to go away in four years, you betcha.

[pa_dweller]

The 'special pen' leaves a bright red streak on a genuine bill but not on counterfeits.

[JD86]

Immigrants and the working poor are the most likely to find themselves in the database, since they tend to use the traditional banking system the least.

Anybody else wonder how many legal immigrants and working poor go shopping with $10,000 in cash? None that I know.
Now illegal aliens here with an agenda, yes...that I can see. Comments?

[JD86]

Please explain the connection between a public financial transaction and an unlawful search under the Fourth Amendment.

[mel]

That is too funny...

[lds23]

Not really sure the average person is buying anything worth $10K with cash. It's usually more effective to buy on a 0% interest plan.

The list of everyday item(s) that fall above this threshold are few and far between. The only worry here is inflation, or things bought as a set of components (e.g., home theatre).

More likely, terrorists are self-funding through credit-card fraud, or petty theft, or drug sales.

[JD86]

you think I'm gonna give the clerk my name and address

Good Luck. Most things costing $9,999 come with a title...ie car, boat, motorcycle....not all, but most.

[Mercuria]

"We got The Right Guy in office. NOTHING bad can ever come of anything he thinks of." (Got a spare toothpick?)

[eddie willers]

Great post.
If this was being done in peacetime, I would be up in arms....
But we are at war, and I want our military to be up in arms.

When this is over we will beat our swords back in to plowshares.

[pcl]

This new law should not trouble anyone except someone with something to hide.

I sat on a Federal Grand Jury for year. I learned that money laundering was one of the Feds best tools for pulling white collar scum out of society.

[JD86]

This isn't an issue of a person's papers?

No, this is an issue of a person paying cash (the government's papers ie. legal tender) for a transaction.
Remember it is only colored paper with the pictures of dead Presidents on it, it is not your private papers.
I don't see a 4th Amendment connection here.

[Smogger]

Anybody else wonder how many legal immigrants and working poor go shopping with $10,000 in cash? None that I know. Now illegal aliens here with an agenda, yes...that I can see. Comments?

I don't really have a position on this issue. Yet. Since I just found out about it. My first impression is that it more likely to smoke out tax evasion than terrorist. I with your asessment that very few immigrants are running around with 10K in cash for one purchase. However, I think the most important provision is that the purchases can be cumulative. Now how the heck is a retailer going to keep track of cumulative purchases by cash paying customers?

I wouldn't get to worked up over it. It would be a very difficult if not impossible provision to enforce.

[JD86]

I am, and I do.

Please explain why. Because I am, and I don't.

[Smogger]

I meant to say: I agree with your asessment that very few immigrants are running around with 10K in cash for one purchase.

[JD86]

Talk to your parents and grandparents about WWII and what citizens had to "put up with" back here at home to fight enemies half a world away. I don't like it, but we're at war and as a veteran, I know that war can be hugely "uncomfortable". Your fear is that these "powers" will continue past the time this "war" is declared over in some way??? Then get off your asses and elect people who will help ensure that these laws are sticken from the books when no longer needed, even if the "drop dead clauses" are ignored by subsequent administrations.

I didn't see your other posts, but I sure agree with this one. Good Job. Well Said!

[pcl]

One more thing, many bank tellers and other bank personal already report suspicious cash deposits of less than $10k but accumlating more that $10k over short periods of time. It was common for money launderers to be deposting $5k to $8k once a day for weeks. Many of these cases were first reported by suspecious tellers.