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Prophecy Scholars, What End Times Signs are Playing Out Now?
Enquiring Mind (no pun intended) | 11/27/2001 | MississippiMan

Posted on 11/26/2001 10:25:19 PM PST by MississippiMan

I found myself in a lengthy discussion the other day about the possibility that we are in or near the Biblical end times, and I'd love to hear the thoughts of some of you who have studied this issue.

What end times signs do you think have played out or are playing out now or will play out in the very near future?

Respectful request: this thread is intended to be a discussion between those who do believe in the Bible and its end times prophecies. While anyone is of course free to post, I sure would appreciate it if those of you who don't believe in God would not clutter up the thread with accusations of superstition and such. Thanks...

MM


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1 posted on 11/26/2001 10:25:19 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: MississippiMan
bump to read latter
2 posted on 11/26/2001 10:29:28 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: MississippiMan
1. The coming chip

2. gross immorality even in Christians

3. falling away from Christianity

4. middle east events

5. coming one-world government

6. creation of Israel as a state again in 1948

7. cloning of humans

Those are the ones that come immediately to mind.

3 posted on 11/26/2001 10:31:14 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
Thanks for the list, Don. It's too late tonight, but tomorrow I want to tie some of those to Biblical references.

MM

4 posted on 11/26/2001 10:38:28 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: Don Myers
8. Abortion
5 posted on 11/26/2001 10:38:41 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
May this be no disrespect, but I think the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled a long time ago, with the collapse of the Roman Empire--which the author of Revelation appears to have intended in much of the symbolism in this astonishing book.

Here, of course, I am assuming that the end of the world--in (latinized) Greek, he ge meant the end of the oppressive social system which was eagerly anticipated by anti-establishment Jews of the time, and not the end of planet earth.

There were plenty of "signs" of this in advance of the final sack of Rome by the Germans around 409 A.D. And this was followed by a Christian civilization in much of Europe earth which lasted for a thousand years.

I realize that this is a highly unorthodox way of looking at this matter, and not a strictly religious one. But I wanted to share it anyway, in case it might be of interest to anyone.

6 posted on 11/26/2001 10:40:59 PM PST by codeword
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To: codeword
That's called the preterist position and it falls short of making sense out of the entire book of Revelation. I have studied that position thoroughly and found it wanting much. In order to make sense of it it has to be studied along with all the so-called "major" and "minor" prophets, especially Daniel and Zechariah. And that requires a great amount of time and desire to really want to get at the bottom of it all, and then, even still, it is too much for the human mind to fully understand and comprehend.
7 posted on 11/26/2001 10:55:20 PM PST by Ymani Cricket
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To: MississippiMan
dittos with post #3 by Don Meyers

I would also add for a future prophecy: The fall of Turkey (yes, the country) to militant Islam as well as parts of eastern and (sections of western Europe but that's being on the generous and hopeful side). Don't know when but it will happen, maybe in 20-50 years but hopefully NOT in my lifetime. In regards to Europe, don't forget about what Attila the Hun was able to do, though Barbaric and backwards as the Huns were.

8 posted on 11/26/2001 11:06:07 PM PST by Ymani Cricket
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To: Ymani Cricket
That's called the preterist position...

Thanks, Ymani. I didn't know it was called this. There's an interesting site on preterism. click here.

9 posted on 11/26/2001 11:09:46 PM PST by codeword
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To: MississippiMan
It's way too late for me to start on this tonight, but tomorrow evening if I have time, I would like to express my comments about current events, as well as what I have learned about prophetic words in the Bible. Believe me, it is very exciting - at least for the church.
10 posted on 11/26/2001 11:14:20 PM PST by Sueann
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To: MississippiMan
Are the events of Revelations part of Nostradamus or is it the other way around? I always forget.
11 posted on 11/26/2001 11:18:25 PM PST by pcl
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To: MississippiMan
Hi, MM. Is the weather rough over there? Still waiting for it to hit here.

I think that much of prophecy takes place/is fulfilled on two levels, natural and spiritual, of course, but also, outwardly and inwardly. If a person is really obsessed with trying to find out who the antichrist is, he might just miss the fact that someone other than the Lord is ruling in his own heart. JMHO. Also, it's 2.a.m here, sorry if that is not real coherent.

12 posted on 11/26/2001 11:20:01 PM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
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To: codeword
That's an interesting take. I'd actually like to find out more about this. If you're still there, do you have any links to good info resources on this?

Thanks in advance.

13 posted on 11/26/2001 11:20:18 PM PST by mxbluto
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To: codeword
oh, got it.
14 posted on 11/26/2001 11:21:05 PM PST by mxbluto
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To: mxbluto
If you're still there, do you have any links to good info resources on this?

This site is a little more metaphysical than I would like, but you might try it. Click here.

15 posted on 11/26/2001 11:24:29 PM PST by codeword
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To: codeword
All of my life, I have heard of prophecies of 666 and the Mark of the Beast, the coming of the Antichrist, and Rome. But as the days have been passing, I have wondered if Islam is mentioned. I wonder what could be more evil than that?
16 posted on 11/27/2001 12:14:59 AM PST by tessalu
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To: codeword
I agree that revelations refers to the Roman empire, but so much biblical prophecy seems to have a relation to events at the time it was written and also relevance to future events. When I wake up and have some time to think I may contribute a few ideas to the discussion.
17 posted on 11/27/2001 5:13:57 AM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Ah, end time prophecy--I can't resist commenting.

First, my basis of interpretation: I use Revelation interpreted through Daniel, and with Jesus' prophecies in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

Where are we? The four horsemen (the first four seals of Revelation 6), have been riding since Jesus' day. We've had false religion (horseman 1, seal 1), war (seal 2), famine (seal 3), and death (seal 4), since then. We're awaiting the "Great Tribulation", seal 5 since then. Christianity has spread worldwide, as prophesied. The gospel is preached worldwide, as prophesied.

What's next? The great tribulation, and the resurrection of the Roman Empire. This is called "the kingdom of the north" in Daniel, and "Babylon" in revelation. "The Beast" can refer to the government or the person in office. There will be a severe (worst ever) persecution of Christians, worldwide, and a false religion complete with supernatural miracles. Some Christians will be protected (how is unspecified) and some will die a martyr's death. Millions will be converted to Christianity during the tribulation.

Next, will be heavenly signs (seal 6). That takes us to God's beginning to intervene in world events, and Revelation 7. Thus begin the "Trumpet plagues", which are to punish the Beast power and lead people to repentance before Jesus' return. Jesus' returns with the seventh trumpet.

18 posted on 11/27/2001 6:29:38 AM PST by Forgiven_Sinner
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
I heard an interesting fact on JR Church's show the other day. He pointed out that the alignment of muslims were set up exactly as predicted in the bible for the Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel 38. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait will not be in that war but will stay aligned with Europe and America. (They are part of the group that asks if they have come to take a spoil.) The other muslim countries such as Iraq, Sudan, Egypt, etc. align with Russia and come against Israel.

Certainly, the other predictions such as an increase in earthquakes, diseases, violence has happened. Jack Van Impe also pointed out that terrorism would be one of the last signs (as in the days of Noah there was violence throughout the land).

While there are different scenerios of how these events will unfold and just who the antiChrist is, people who actually study prophecy are certain this is the end time. Those who have ears to hear should hear, time is running out.

Jesus said when you see these things happening, look up for your redemption draweth nigh. Those who think these things already happened should pay attention to Israel. They don't think these things have already happened and have declared this the "time of Jacob's trouble". How could they have already happened when it says 3/4ths of the earth's inhabitants will be destroyed. Take time to study with various prophecy teachers and you will see that the evidence is very convincing. God's Word is true.

19 posted on 11/27/2001 6:59:20 AM PST by Cowgirl
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To: Cowgirl

Certainly, the other predictions such as an increase in earthquakes, diseases, violence has happened. Jack Van Impe also pointed out that terrorism would be one of the last signs (as in the days of Noah there was violence throughout the land).

There has been NO increase in earthquakes WHATSOEVER...in the last 20 years, in the last 10 years, in the last 5 years. And, incidentally, this year there has been a below average number of large (Magnitude 7+) earthquakes so far.

And if there's an increase in disease why do world overall average life expectancies keep going UP?

The world has been pretty darn violent for the last 6,000 years. I fail to see any increase in violence per population at all.

I don't get how (some) Christians just blatantly lie to support their own little religious hobby-horses. I mean, the claims about increases in earthquakes are easily checkable and it's not a matter of debate...anyone claiming earthquakes have increased is an obvious liar....not that the author of the post is...probably just naively accepting whatever apocalyptic end-times nuts are telling her.

20 posted on 11/27/2001 7:25:29 AM PST by John H K
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To: MississippiMan
What end times signs do you think have played out or are playing out now or will play out in the very near future?

The Maryland Terrapins are going to the Orange Bowl!!!

21 posted on 11/27/2001 7:31:26 AM PST by Chief Inspector Clouseau
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To: MississippiMan
The alignment of religions, making all religions equal and supposedly saying the same thing. This is the Whore spoken of in Revelation 17, the one world religious system that the world unites under before the Anti-Christ demands his own worship.

The other alignments I believe, is we will soon see major terrorist atacks in the US. The US is not in prophecy. Face it, we are not. That means we will not be here. I do not believe we have so many born again believers that the country will shut down during the rapture, I believe we will be killed off or involved in an internal struggle that will paralyse us caused by forces unknown, but terrorism within sounds like a likely scenario to me.

.'The creation of the ability to monitor all transactions and purchases through a single micro chip, fulfilling the idea of a mark on the hand or forehead that the Anti-Christ will require. No other generation had the ability to do this. Bush's National ID, soon to come, is a precurser to this. England has already called for national id's, and many other countries will too. When a global government becomes a reality, we will see a global card.

22 posted on 11/27/2001 7:42:44 AM PST by RaceBannon
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To: pcl
Nostro has nothing to do with the Bible, he only uses a Biblical word, AntiChrist, and I think even that is open to interpretation.
23 posted on 11/27/2001 7:44:38 AM PST by RaceBannon
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To: 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal; RnMomof7
ping
24 posted on 11/27/2001 7:49:36 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: MississippiMan; Jeremiah Jr
JJR, can you please post your observation concerning statues? I was trying to paraphase from memory, but it won't do it justice. Thanks.
25 posted on 11/27/2001 7:57:44 AM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: one_particular_harbour
What a stupid thread.

Why did you click on it?

MM

27 posted on 11/27/2001 8:07:48 AM PST by MississippiMan
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To: codeword
To believe as you do one must disbelieve the Bible. Forget The Book of The Revelation. (The Apocalypse) Just look at what The Messiah says in Mathew.

[4] Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.

[5] For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

[6] You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

[7] Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

[8] All these are the beginning of birth pains.

[9] "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

[10] At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

[11] and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

[12] Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

[13] but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

[14] And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

[15] "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--

[16] then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

[17] Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house.

[18] Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak.

[19] How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!

[20] Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

[21] For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

[22] If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Matthew 24:4-22

If you toss The Messiah's words into the trash in these verses then you have trashed the whole Bible. Forget it. It's all meaningless. There is no God. We are simply biological machines ... the product of an accident we will never understand. The universe has no first cause and nothing means anything.

28 posted on 11/27/2001 8:13:42 AM PST by mercy
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: MississippiMan
Prophecy Scholars, What End Times Signs are Playing Out Now?

Answer:: none,........NONE!!

31 posted on 11/27/2001 8:20:11 AM PST by maestro
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To: MississippiMan
OK, but you make it sound like someone who doesn't believe in the bible, can't believe in God. You are wrong, my friend.
32 posted on 11/27/2001 8:23:56 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
Interesting. Describe this God of yours. Where did you find it and what is your evidence of it's existence?
33 posted on 11/27/2001 8:26:07 AM PST by mercy
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To: one_particular_harbour
**** Since all you guys want to do is duck out of your Visa bills and watch a bunch of little brown people go to hell, I'm wondering what purpose is served by it.****

I guess this is why the Christian world has been feeding, helping to establish agriculture, drilling wells, bringing doctors to, etc, etc, etc, 'the little brown people' all over the world, to the tune of many billions of dollars, for around two hundred years. Why does someone so filled with hatred as you are wish to hang out on a conservative and mostly Christian website? This truly mystifies me.

34 posted on 11/27/2001 8:31:34 AM PST by mercy
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: MississippiMan
This isn't prophecy but it sure is a sign of the times we are living in today.

2 Timothy 3

1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

36 posted on 11/27/2001 8:40:34 AM PST by Brownie74
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To: one_particular_harbour
What a stupid thread. Please tell me what this has to do with Free Republic? It borders on abuse.

Unlike some of the threads on penis and breast size or filthy cartoons huh?

37 posted on 11/27/2001 8:42:50 AM PST by RnMomof7
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: one_particular_harbour
The Talibornagain have certainly been out in force lately.
39 posted on 11/27/2001 8:46:36 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: mercy
I have neither proof nor description, just faith/belief that there is one true God.
42 posted on 11/27/2001 8:52:44 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: one_particular_harbour
Can I expropriate that for my own selfish devices, LOL?

Glad you like it--Please feel free!

It certainly does describe them--they want the same thing done to America that the Taliban did to Afghanistan.

The only difference is that here it's the Bible and Jesus instead of the Koran and Allah. The results would be identical.

43 posted on 11/27/2001 8:52:48 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: codeword
I have always thought that these prophecies will probably occur when they are no longer belived in. When that happens, God only knows.
44 posted on 11/27/2001 8:54:08 AM PST by ohioman
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To: RaceBannon
Waste of time. pcl is apparently a complete Biblical ignoramus and likes it that way; apparently she doesn't even read English that well. Read the opening request; she didn't.

Dan

45 posted on 11/27/2001 8:55:16 AM PST by BibChr
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To: mercy
Absolutely right. Preterism rapes the Bible and totally trashes the concept that God spoke to man.

Dan

46 posted on 11/27/2001 8:56:19 AM PST by BibChr
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To: one_particular_harbour
okay, my friend. you are going to have to help me out with this one: how is this thread any more of a waste of bandwidth than the daily threads on "A Day in the Life of President Bush" which do nothing but show a collection of glossy pictures irrelevant to the news of the day ???

And, secondly, could you explain the following paragraph:

"Since all you guys want to do is duck out of your Visa bills and watch a bunch of little brown people go to hell, I'm wondering what purpose is served by it.

I am not ashamed to say that I am a born-again fundamentalist Christian. But I don't have any credit cards. And I don't want to see anyone go to hell. Therefore, you obviously were not talking about me, and I should not be offended. However, the term "Tali-bornagain" is one that I find offensive nonetheless.

47 posted on 11/27/2001 9:01:56 AM PST by RonPaulLives
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To: MississippiMan
Have studied Bible Prophecy for many years, simply through studying the Bible. So much of the Bible is prophetic - we miss many blessings if we ignore it. One thing I learned. There are far more Bible prophecies related to the "end times" and the Messiah coming as King of Kings and Lord of Lords - than there were to the Prophecies which we know have been fulfilled in Jesus' "first coming" to this earth as Savior. Also, the book of Revelation is the only book of the Bible with an direct promise of blessing to all who read it. However, Revelation is like the final train station - Grand Central if you will - into which all the threads of prophetic writings from other books in the Bible - terminate. Without knowing something about Daniel, Ezekiel, and the many other prophetic books of the Old Testament, along with Jesus' own prophetic words in the Gospels, and the Apostles' prophetic words in the NT letters - Revelation is not nearly as understandable.

I am reading one of the best books about Revelation - which is very pertinent to our post-Sept 11th time period - that I have read: By Billy Graham's Daughter, Anne Graham Lotz:

The Vision Of His Glory: Finding Hope Through the Revelation of Jesus Christ

I highly recommend it for prayerful reading and study. More comments later. Thanks for the thread.

48 posted on 11/27/2001 9:05:22 AM PST by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: MississippiMan
When they blow up the Dome of the Rock mosque, you'll know something's up for sure. For victory & freedom!!!
49 posted on 11/27/2001 9:08:18 AM PST by Saundra Duffy
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