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Imagine a World without Guns
NRO ^ | 5 Dec 2001 | Kopel, Eisen, Gallant

Posted on 12/05/2001 6:59:27 AM PST by white trash redneck

A World Without Guns
Be forewarned: It’s not a pretty picture


By Dave Kopel, Paul Gallant, and Joanne Eisen of the Independence Institute

December 5, 2001 9:40 a.m.

 

magine the world without guns" was a bumper sticker that began making the rounds after the murder of ex-Beatle John Lennon on December 18, 1980. Last year, Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono, followed up on that sentiment by announcing she would become a spokeswoman for Handgun Control, Inc. (which later changed its name to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and which was previously named the National Council to Control Handguns).

So let's try hard to imagine what a world without guns would look like. It isn't hard to do. But be forewarned: It's not a pretty picture.

The way to get to a gun-free world, the gun-prohibition groups tell us, is to pass laws banning them. We can begin by imagining the enactment of laws which ban all non-government possession of firearms.

It's not likely that local bans will do the job. Take, for example, New York's 1911 Sullivan Law, which imposed an exceedingly restrictive handgun-licensing scheme on New York City. In recent decades, administrative abuses have turned the licensing statute into what amounts to prohibition, except for tenacious people who navigate a deliberately obstructive licensing system.

Laws affect mainly those willing to obey them. And where there's an unfulfilled need — and money to be made — there's usually a way around the law. Enter the black market, which flourishes all the more vigorously with ever-increasing restrictions and prohibitions. In TV commercials that aired last August, New York City Republican (sort of) mayoral candidate Mike Bloomberg informed voters that "in 1993, there were as many as 2 million illegal guns on the street." The insinuation was that all those guns were in the hands of criminals, and the implication was that confiscating the guns would make the city a safer place. What Bloomberg never explained was how he planned to shut down the black market.

So let's imagine, instead, a nationwide gun ban, or maybe even a worldwide ban.

Then again, heroin and cocaine have been illegal in the United States, and most of the world, for nearly a century. Huge resources have been devoted to suppressing their production, sale, and use, and many innocent people have been sacrificed in the crossfire of the "drug war." Yet heroin and cocaine are readily available on the streets of almost all large American cities, and at prices that today are lower than in previous decades.

Perhaps a global prohibition law isn't good enough. Maybe imposing the harshest penalty possible for violation of such a law will give it real teeth: mandatory life in prison for possession of a gun, or even for possession of a single bullet. (We won't imagine the death penalty, since the Yoko crowd doesn't like the death penalty.)

On second thought, Jamaica's Gun Court Act of 1974 contained just such a penalty, and even that wasn't sufficient. On August 18, 2001, Jamaican Melville Cooke observed that today, "the only people who do not have an illegal firearm [in this country], are those who do not want one." Violent crime in Jamaica is worse than ever, as gangsters and trigger-happy police commit homicides with impunity, and only the law-abiding are disarmed.

Yet the Jamaican government wants to globalize its failed policy. In July 2001, Burchell Whiteman, Jamaica's Minister of Education, Youth and Culture spoke at the U.N. Disarmament Conference to demand the "implementation of measures that would limit the production of weapons to levels that meet the needs for defence and national security."

And as long as governments are allowed to have guns, there will be gun factories to steal from. Some of these factories might have adequate security measures to prevent theft, including theft by employees. But in a world with about 200 nations, most of them governed by kleptocracies, it's preposterous to imagine that some of those "government-only" factories won't become suppliers for the black market. Alternatively, corrupt military and police could supply firearms to the black market.

We'd better revise our strategy. Rather than wishing for laws (which cannot, even imaginably, create a gun-free world), let's be more ambitious, and imagine that all guns vanish. Even guns possessed by government agents. And let's close all the gun factories, too. That ought to put the black market out of business.

Voilà! Instant peace!

Back to the Drawing Board
Then again.....it's not very difficult to make a workable firearm. As J. David Truby points out in his book Zips, Pipes, and Pens: Arsenal of Improvised Weapons, "Today, all of the improvised/modified designs [of firearms] remain well within the accomplishment of the mechanically unskilled citizen who does not have access to firearms through other means."

In the article "Gun-Making as a Cottage Industry," Charles Chandler observed that Americans "have a reputation as ardent hobbyists and do-it-yourselfers, building everything from ship models to home improvements." The one area they have not been very active in is that of firearm construction. And that, Chandler explained, is only because "well-designed and well-made firearms are generally available as items of commerce."

A complete gun ban, or highly restrictive licensing amounting to near-ban, would create a real incentive for gun making to become a "cottage industry".

It's already happening in Great Britain, a consequence of the complete ban on civilian possession of handguns imposed by the Firearms Act of 1997. Not only are the Brits swamped today with illegally imported firearms, but local, makeshift gun factories have sprung up to compete.

British police already know about some of them. Officers from Scotland Yard's Metropolitan Police Serious Crime Group South recently recovered 12 handgun replicas which were converted to working models. An auto repair shop in London served as the front for the novel illegal gun factory. Police even found some enterprising gun-makers turning screwdrivers into workable firearms, and producing firearms disguised as ordinary key rings.

In short, closing the Winchester Repeating Arms factory — and all the others — will not spell the end of the firearm business.

Just take the case of Bougainville, the largest island in the South Pacific's Solomon Islands chain. Bougainville was the site of a bloody, decade-long secessionist uprising against domination by the government of Papua New Guinea, aided and abetted by the Australian government. The conflict there was the longest-running confrontation in the Pacific since the end of World War II, and caused the deaths of 15,000 to 20,000 islanders.

During the hostilities, which included a military blockade of the island, one of the goals was to deprive the Bougainville Revolutionary Army (BRA) of its supply of arms. The tactic failed: the BRA simply learned how to make its own guns using materiel and ammunition left over from the War.

In fact, at the United Nations Asia Pacific Regional Disarmament Conference held in Spring 2001, it was quietly admitted that the BRA, within ten years of its formation, had managed to manufacture a production copy of the M16 automatic rifle and other machine guns. (That makes one question the real intent behind the U.N. Conference on the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All its Aspects, which followed several months later: the U.N. leadership can't be so daft as to fail to recognize the implications for world disarmament after learning of the success of the Bougainville Revolutionary Army.)

If this single island of Bougainville can produce its own weapons, the Philippine Islands have long had a thriving cottage industry to manufacture firearms — despite very restrictive gun laws imposed by the Marcos dictatorship and some other regimes.

It looks like we'll need to revisit our fantasy, yet again.

Okay. By proclamation of Kopel, Gallant, and Eisen, not only do all firearms — every last one of them — vanish instantly, but there shall be no further remanufacturing.

That last part's a bit tricky. Auto repair shops, hobbyists, revolutionaries — everyone with decent machine shop skills — can make a gun from something. This takes us down the same road as drug prohibition: With primary anti-drug laws having proven themselves unenforceable, secondary laws have been added to prohibit possession of items which could be used to manufacture drugs. Even making suspicious purchases at a gardening store can earn one a "dynamic entry" visit from the local SWAT team.

But laws proscribing the possession of gun-manufacturing items would have to be even broader than laws against possession of drug-manufacturing items, because there are so many tools which can be used to make guns, or be made into guns. What we'd really have to do is carefully control every possible step in the gun-making process. That means the registration of all machine tools, and the federal licensing of plumbers (similar to current federal licensure of pharmacies), auto mechanics, and all those handymen with their screwdrivers. And we'd need to stamp a serial number on pipes (potential gun barrels) in every bathroom and automobile — and everywhere else one finds pipes — and place all the serial numbers in a federal registry.

Today, the antigun lobbies who claim they don't want to ban all guns still insist that registration of every single gun and licensing of every gun owner is essential to keep guns from falling into the wrong hands. If so, it's hard to argue that licensing and registration of gun manufacturing items would not be essential to prevent illicit production of guns.

Thus, we would have to control every part of the manufacturing process. That would add up to a very expensive, complicated proposition. Even a 1% noncompliance rate with the "Firearms Precursors Control Act" would leave an immense supply of materials available for black-market gun making.

In order to ensure total conformity with the act, it's difficult to imagine leaving most existing constitutional protections in place. The mind boggles at the kinds of search and seizure laws required to make certain that people do not possess unregistered metal pipes or screwdrivers!

For example, just to enforce a ban on actual guns (not gun precursors), the Jamaican government needed to wipe out many common law controls on police searches, and many common law guarantees of fair trials. We'd have to trash the Constitution in order to completely prevent a black market in gun precursors from taking hold. Still, as the gun-prohibition lobby always says, if it saves just one life, it would be worth it.

But, what if, despite these extreme measures, the black market still functioned — as it almost always does, when there is sufficient demand?

It's time to seriously revisit our strategy for a gun-free world. Maybe there's a shortcut around all of this.

Okay. We're going to make a truly radical, no-holds-barred proposal this time, take a quantum leap in science, and go where no man has gone before. There may be those who scoff at our proposal, but it can succeed where all other strategies have failed.

We, Kopel, Gallant, and Eisen, hereby imagine that, from this day forth, the laws of chemical combustion are revoked. We hereby imagine that gunpowder — and all similar compounds — no longer have the capacity to burn and release the gases necessary to propel a bullet.

Peace for Our Time
Finally, for the first time, a gun-free world is truly within our grasp — and it's time to see what man hath wrought. And for that, all we have to do is take a look back at the kind of world our ancestors lived in.

To say that life in the pre-gunpowder world was violent would be an understatement. Land travel, especially over long distances, was fraught with danger from murderers, robbers, and other criminals. Most women couldn't protect themselves from rape, except by granting unlimited sexual access to one male in exchange for protection from other males.

Back then, weapons depended on muscle power. Advances in weaponry primarily magnified the effect of muscle power. The stronger one is, the better one's prospects for fighting up close with an edged weapon like a sword or a knife, or at a distance with a bow or a javelin (both of which require strong arms). The superb ability of such "old-fashioned" edged weapons to inflict carnage on innocents was graphically demonstrated by the stabbing deaths of eight second graders on June 8, 2001, by former school clerk Mamoru Takuma in gun-free Osaka, Japan.

When it comes to muscle power, young men usually win over women, children, and the elderly. It was warriors who dominated society in gun-free feudal Europe, and a weak man usually had to resign himself to settle on a life of toil and obedience in exchange for a place within the castle walls when evil was afoot.

And what of the women? According to the custom of jus primae noctis, a lord had the right to sleep with the bride of a newly married serf on the first night — a necessary price for the serf to pay — in exchange for the promise of safety and security (does that ring a bell?). Not uncommonly, this arrangement didn't end with the wedding night, since one's lord had the practical power to take any woman, any time. Regardless of whether jus primae noctis was formally observed in a region, rich, strong men had little besides their conscience to stop them from having their way with women who weren't protected by another wealthy strongman.

But there's yet another problem with imagining gunpowder out of existence: We get rid of firearms, but we don't get rid of guns. With the advent of the blow gun some 40,000 years ago, man discovered the efficacy of a tube for concentrating air power and aiming a missile, making the eventual appearance of airguns inevitable. So gunpowder or no gunpowder, all we've been doing, thus far, amounts to quibbling over the means for propelling something out of a tube.

Airguns date back to somewhere around the beginning of the 17th century. And we don't mean airguns like the puny Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun with a compass in the stock, longed for by Ralphie in Jean Shepard's 1984 classic A Christmas Story ("No, Ralphie, you can't have a BB gun — you'll shoot your eye out!").

No, we're talking serious lethality here. The kind of powder-free gun that can hurl a 7.4 oz. projectile with a muzzle energy of 1,082 foot-pounds. Compare that to the 500 foot-pounds of muzzle energy from a typical .357 Magnum round! Even greater projectile energies are achievable using gases like nitrogen or helium, which create higher pressures than air does.

Before the advent of self-contained powder cartridge guns, airguns were considered serious weapons. In fact, three hundred years ago, air-powered guns were among the most powerful and accurate large-bore rifles around. While their biggest disadvantages were cost and intricacy of manufacture, they were more dependable and could be fired more rapidly than firearms of the same period. A butt-reservoir .31 airgun was carried by Lewis and Clark on their historic expedition, and used successfully for taking game. [See Robert D. Beeman, "Proceeding On to the Lewis & Clark Airgun," Airgun Revue 6 (2000): 13-33.] Airguns even saw duty in military engagements more than 200 years ago.

Today, fully automatic M-16-style airguns are a reality. It was only because of greater cost relative to powder guns, and the greater convenience afforded by powder arms, that airgun technology was never pushed to its lethal limits.

Other non-powder weapon systems have competed for man's attention, as well. The 20th century was the bloodiest century in the history of mankind. And while firearms were used for killing (for example, with machine guns arranged to create interlocking fields of fire in the trench warfare of World War I), they were hardly essential. By far, the greatest number of deliberate killings occurred during the genocides and democides perpetrated by governments against disarmed populations. The instruments of death ranged from Zyklon B gas to machetes to starvation.

Imagine No Claws
To imagine a world with no guns is to imagine a world in which the strong rule the weak, in which women are dominated by men, and in which minorities are easily abused or mass-murdered by majorities. Practically speaking, a firearm is the only weapon that allows a weaker person to defend himself from a larger, stronger group of attackers, and to do so at a distance. As George Orwell observed, a weapon like a rifle "gives claws to the weak."

The failure of imagination among people who yearn for a gun-free world is their naive assumption that getting rid of claws will get rid of the desire to dominate and kill. They fail to acknowledge the undeniable fact that when the weak are deprived of claws (or firearms), the strong will have access to other weapons, including sheer muscle power. A gun-free world would be much more dangerous for women, and much safer for brutes and tyrants.

The one society in history that successfully gave up firearms was Japan in the 17th century, as detailed in Noel Perrin's superb book Giving Up the Gun: Japan's Reversion to the Sword 1543-1879. An isolated island with a totalitarian dictatorship, Japan was able to get rid of the guns. Historian Stephen Turnbull summarizes the result:

[The dictator] Hidéyoshi's resources were such that the edict was carried out to the letter. The growing social mobility of peasants was thus flung suddenly into reverse. The ikki, the warrior-monks, became figures of the past . . . Hidéyoshi had deprived the peasants of their weapons. Iéyasu [the next ruler] now began to deprive them of their self respect. If a peasant offended a samurai he might be cut down on the spot by the samurai's sword. [The Samurai: A Military History (New York: Macmillan, 1977).]

The inferior status of the peasantry having been affirmed by civil disarmament, the Samurai enjoyed kiri-sute gomen, permission to kill and depart. Any disrespectful member of the lower class could be executed by a Samurai's sword.

The Japanese disarmament laws helped mold the culture of submission to authority which facilitated Japan's domination by an imperialist military dictatorship in the 1930s, which led the nation into a disastrous world war.

In short, the one country that created a truly gun-free society created a society of harsh class oppression, in which the strongmen of the upper class could kill the lower classes with impunity. When a racist, militarist, imperialist government took power, there was no effective means of resistance. The gun-free world of Japan turned into just the opposite of the gentle, egalitarian utopia of John Lennon's song "Imagine."

Instead of imagining a world without a particular technology, what about imagining a world in which the human heart grows gentler, and people treat each other decently? This is part of the vision of many of the world's great religions. Although we have a long way to go, there is no denying that hundreds of millions of lives have changed for the better because people came to believe what these religions teach.

If a truly peaceful world is attainable — or, even if unattainable, worth striving for — there is nothing to be gained from the futile attempt to eliminate all guns. A more worthwhile result can flow from the changing of human hearts, one soul at a time.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: banglist
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Dave Kopel (and colleagues), the most logical and articulate defender of gun rights in America today (we in Colorado are proud to claim him as one of our own) explains the pitfalls of banning firearms in terms that even a liberal should be able to understand.
1 posted on 12/05/2001 6:59:27 AM PST by white trash redneck
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To: white trash redneck
Well, for one thing, it would be hard to play Russian Roulette with either a knife or a hand grenade.
2 posted on 12/05/2001 7:02:54 AM PST by BlueLancer
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To: white trash redneck
Well said. and here's a bump to you.

I can resist but here goes:

Q: What was John Lennon's last words?

A: Yoko! Oh No!!!!!!!

B-)
3 posted on 12/05/2001 7:03:22 AM PST by Nowhere Man
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To: white trash redneck
Was it a millionaire who said, 'Imagine no possessions'?

-Elvis Costello

4 posted on 12/05/2001 7:04:38 AM PST by real saxophonist
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To: white trash redneck
Take, for example, New York's 1911 Sullivan Law

Don't remind me. When I return to New York, I will have to probably hire a lawyer to navigate the legal maze created by the Sullivan Law and later regs (Thanks to RINO John Lindsay, NYC even registers rifles!). BTW: Tim Sullivan was a corrupt NYPD Chief connected to Tammany Hall who essentially leaned on the legislature to pass the horrorific law that bears his name.

5 posted on 12/05/2001 7:06:20 AM PST by Clemenza
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To: white trash redneck
Seriously, because he is logical and articulate, liberals will never understand him.
6 posted on 12/05/2001 7:06:37 AM PST by real saxophonist
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To: white trash redneck; *bang_list
bump
7 posted on 12/05/2001 7:07:40 AM PST by Free the USA
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To: *bang_list
The gun-free utopia, detailed.
8 posted on 12/05/2001 7:07:58 AM PST by coloradan
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To: white trash redneck

Thank you!
Let's make this the shortest fundraiser ever.
5 days into the fundraiser and we are 62% there.
We can be finished in 3 more days
and get back to our regular freeping.
If you can, come on and contribute
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Or stop by and help bump the thread!


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9 posted on 12/05/2001 7:11:57 AM PST by WIMom
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To: white trash redneck

10 posted on 12/05/2001 7:14:39 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: white trash redneck
I have imagined, and that is why I own a few
11 posted on 12/05/2001 7:14:41 AM PST by GoredInMich
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To: white trash redneck
Sigh.

Imagine a world without liberals

Imagine a world without rabid war mongering liberals giving themselves the right to confiscate guns from peaceful people.

Guns don't kill, liberals do.

12 posted on 12/05/2001 7:14:52 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: white trash redneck
Hardly sounds like the world liberals have in mind. Then again liberals usually think in the short-term about whatever feels good for the present and damn the future consequences. Any problems liberals have with banning guns can be left for later. The only problem is to get to the gun-free future they yearn as David Kopel et. al pointed out, liberals have to give up some of the things that make Western society liberal. All of which illustrates the old adage "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." So much for the liberal fantasy a gun-free world can be brought about without shredding freedom in the process or or without taking the beast out of the man. Perhaps they should revisit the dogma that getting rid of guns makes for a freer and fairer world.
13 posted on 12/05/2001 7:15:02 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: white trash redneck
Bump for later reading. Looks good.
14 posted on 12/05/2001 7:17:36 AM PST by FOMTY
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To: white trash redneck
You know, another interesting story is the development of karate on the island of Okinawa. All weapons ( swords ) were banned there. The rest is an interesting story.
15 posted on 12/05/2001 7:17:56 AM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: goldstategop
Actually, I can imagine a couple of great "gun-free society" scenarios.

Telling a liberal to "SHUDDAP!", and when they don't whipping out my samurai sword, and using it. Can't have the First Amendment around, you know, some one might "talk" about guns.

Gives me goose bumps just thinking about it.

prambo

16 posted on 12/05/2001 7:18:59 AM PST by prambo
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To: white trash redneck
Imagine a world without liberals controlling your life.
17 posted on 12/05/2001 7:19:20 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: Nowhere Man
Be carefully what you say about the beatles around here, they'll flame you.

Gun 'n' Beatles

18 posted on 12/05/2001 7:22:18 AM PST by dtom
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To: white trash redneck
Can you say "Cambodia?" I knew that you could.
19 posted on 12/05/2001 7:24:29 AM PST by Liberal Classic
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: white trash redneck
The first gun here is for McCain and the second for the rest of us.

READY - AIM - FIRE

911 VS 357

21 posted on 12/05/2001 7:30:44 AM PST by stlrocket
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To: white trash redneck
Yeah, no guns would mean the return of Bows and arrows, sabers, knives, sling shot like David used to slay the giant or as the Mother in Houston did, use the bath tub to kill her children. GUNS DO NOT KILL, PEOPLE DO. The gun cannot fire itself. Liberals lack any common sense, they are in a dream world.
22 posted on 12/05/2001 7:34:53 AM PST by Texbob
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Bump for an excellent piece. My only slight gripe to some of the responses is the use of the word "liberal" in reference to people who seek to empower the government to ban firearm ownership among citizens.

Such people are most decidedly not liberal, in any sense of the word, however much they might like to think of themselves that way.

They are authoritarians.

23 posted on 12/05/2001 7:35:06 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: BlueLancer
We can begin by imagining the enactment of laws which ban all non-government possession of firearms.

That's not a world without guns. From this point on the whole article is a bunch of BS.

24 posted on 12/05/2001 7:37:03 AM PST by Flint
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To: white trash redneck
A world without guns! HAHAHAHA! We could take over with a butter knife and a pointy stick! HAHAHAHA!

Or, to quote Kodos, "Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"

25 posted on 12/05/2001 7:37:44 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: white trash redneck
When I was 11 or 12, I made my own muzzle-loader from a weightlifting tube, loaded with match heads. It worked great, though I'm now amazed that I didn't maim myself.

You can't keep guns from any industrious person.

26 posted on 12/05/2001 7:39:30 AM PST by Britton J Wingfield
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To: dtom
Flame me all you want, but I refuse to elevate the beatles to the music-god status everyone else has. I pesonaly think their music sucked, and I cant stomach thier politics, especialy Lennon's. He should have spelled his name L-e-n-i-n.
27 posted on 12/05/2001 7:39:33 AM PST by sean327
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To: white trash redneck
OHHHH a world without guns....we would be such a big happy family then....It just gives me such a warm and fuzzy feeling...I think its time for a..............................

BIG HUG

/sarcasm

28 posted on 12/05/2001 7:40:48 AM PST by ParityErr
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To: BlueLancer
BUMP
29 posted on 12/05/2001 7:47:36 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: white trash redneck
Whenever they play John Lennon's "Imagine" they should show a video in the background the Hutu genocide with machetes.
30 posted on 12/05/2001 7:49:45 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: sean327
sean327 I'm with you all the way, but look what happen to for posting a few negative things about the originators of the "I hate America" four.

THE BEATLES

31 posted on 12/05/2001 7:53:00 AM PST by dtom
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To: white trash redneck
Somewhere I read a quote that said "Those who pound their swords into plowshares will be ruled by those who don't"
32 posted on 12/05/2001 8:00:11 AM PST by SMDC/TLX
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To: ReasonedVoice
Another tenet of modern liberalism, deconstructed and shown to be a lie.
33 posted on 12/05/2001 8:02:13 AM PST by Hugh Akston
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To: white trash redneck
Imagine a World where you are the only person without a gun.

Imagine a world with no guns ruled by gangs of thugs with sticks.

34 posted on 12/05/2001 8:02:32 AM PST by Mike Darancette
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To: white trash redneck
Once we have a world without liberals and criminals, tyrannical governments, war, and under-control animal populations, I'll still want my guns. So imagine a world without guns? Hell no!!!!!!
35 posted on 12/05/2001 8:09:22 AM PST by Leesylvanian
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To: Texbob
Yeah, no guns would mean the return of Bows and arrows, sabers, knives, sling shot like David used to slay the giant or as the Mother in Houston did, use the bath tub to kill her children.

We have all those items now, but they pose little threat to the liberal ruling elite. Only guns give the "peon" the ability reach out and touch even the elite hiding behind their most skilled guards. A peasant with a sword has almost no chance against a samurai with a sword. A peasant with a rifle has an almost-even chance against an expert rifleman, or at least a vastly better chance than his sword-armed equivalent.

Liberals don't have to explicity posit this principle. Their built-in instincts for survival and advancement will do it for them.

In the end, gun control is merely the means that the statist elite (mostly liberals) use to try and protect themselves from any negative consequences that might arise from their evil policies.

Looking back at history, we see that the gun, and only the gun has been the one real "equalizer" that can hinder out-of-control elites. It equalized the relationship between the powerful and skilled, and the weak. The liberals, who worship "equality", absolutely hate that kind of equality.

36 posted on 12/05/2001 8:52:37 AM PST by 300winmag
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To: Texbob
Hey, if you want some cool tales of murder, read "12 Caesars," by Suetonius. It'll give you chills, all the ways Romans had to off each other. If they'd had hypodermic needles, they might have wiped out the empire entirely.
37 posted on 12/05/2001 8:53:58 AM PST by MoralSense
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To: MoralSense
The Lateran Council of 1139 outlawed the crossbow because that weapon allowed a peasant foot soldier to kill an armored knight -- obviously not part of God's plan.
38 posted on 12/05/2001 9:19:13 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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To: white trash redneck
When I imagine a world without guns, I imagine the 13th century.
39 posted on 12/05/2001 9:28:56 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants
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To: white trash redneck
Excellent post
40 posted on 12/05/2001 10:21:05 AM PST by Mikey
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To: Flint
From this point on the whole article is a bunch of BS.

Did you actually read the article? It wasn't until several pooints later that they actually reached a world with no guns, and they only did that by violating a law of physics.

41 posted on 12/05/2001 11:40:51 AM PST by NovemberCharlie
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To: white trash redneck
Ok, here's what I imagine a world without guns would look like:


42 posted on 12/05/2001 11:52:08 AM PST by FReepaholic
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To: white trash redneck
terms that even a liberal should be able to understand.

You're delusional. I prescribe 2 bricks of .22 and a landfill full o rats.

43 posted on 12/05/2001 3:05:12 PM PST by packrat01
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To: white trash redneck
What a superb article. Bookmarked and bumped.
44 posted on 12/05/2001 3:13:10 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: white trash redneck
If guns had never existed we would still be British subjects. Actually we would probably all be Muslims under the sway of the Arabic armies that made it into Europe nearly as far as Vienna before being repulsed.

A world without guns would be a violent world that would enshrine unassailable tyrannies forever. No thanks

45 posted on 12/05/2001 3:20:37 PM PST by muir_redwoods
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To: sean327
I'm with you, bro. I liked Abbey Road, but that's it.

Imagine a world w/o guns? It would be great for me...6-3, 260 lbs, martial arts training, Army vet. It would suck for women and smaller, older and younger folks. So...ladies, think about that and decide if a world without guns would be such a great thing.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

46 posted on 12/05/2001 3:29:32 PM PST by wku man
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To: SMDC/TLX
Somewhere I read a quote that said "Those who pound their swords into plowshares will be ruled by those who don't"

Another good one is "The Meek Shall Inherit the Gulag".

47 posted on 12/05/2001 3:32:54 PM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: Jefferson Adams
Excellent article, BTW :)
48 posted on 12/05/2001 3:33:53 PM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: white trash redneck
Bump for later reading...JFK
49 posted on 12/05/2001 3:34:39 PM PST by BADROTOFINGER
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To: white trash redneck
Well, if all guns magically disappeared, the physically strong could victimize the weak, just like they did before guns were invented.
50 posted on 12/05/2001 3:39:06 PM PST by Tony in Hawaii
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