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Genetic Survey Reveals Hidden Celts Of England
The Sunday Times (UK) ^ | 12-02-2001 | John Elliott/Tom Robbins

Posted on 12/06/2001 6:35:33 AM PST by blam

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To: blam
>The comet that plunged into the Celtic Sea in 540AD and brought on the Dark Ages

Did that comet have a name?

101 posted on 12/07/2001 8:07:08 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: blam
What I find interesting here is the view that the Celts are somehow the indigenous peoples of the British Isles, when archaeology clearly shows that they were invaders just like the Vikings and the Anglo's. GB really hasn't had a "native" population since the Bell-Beaker people crossed over from modern France and taught metalworking to the neolithic natives who were barely more advanced than cave men. This merging of the small Bell-Beaker group and the larger native group resulted in the Wessex Culture, which is often described as the only truly British civilization to grace the Isles. The Wessex were sun-worshipping pagans who apparently developed quite an advanced understanding of math, astronomy, and engineering. It was also the Wessex who built Stonehenge and a number of the other complex stone monoliths that dot the English countryside. The Celts didn't cross the channel into the Isles until between 1500B.C. and 1000.B.C. The culture they encountered upon landing was already in decline, so it would appear that they had little trouble taking Britain away from the natives. How peaceful (or violent) this takeover was is lost to modern history.

So you see, if these tested people really have Celtic blood, then they are Germanic or French by ancestry, not British. Given the relatively small population of pre-Celtic Britain, though, it's highly likely that the truly native bloodlines are nearly destroyed.
102 posted on 12/07/2001 8:11:34 AM PST by Arthalion
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks for the ping!
103 posted on 12/07/2001 8:35:53 AM PST by vikingchick
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To: LostTribe
"Did that comet have a name?"

Lug/Lugh or Cuchulinn, son of Lug/Lugh. (It may have been just a close flyby comet). I'm quoting Mike Baillie. ( I believe this is also referenced in Clube and Napiers book, Cosmic Winter and another book titled Catasthrophe.)

104 posted on 12/07/2001 8:45:56 AM PST by blam
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To: Interesting Times
Contrary to popular opinion the Vikings actually settled in places they invaded. They conquered large portions of central europe and russia. They had a society that was interested in wealth and staying where they invaded, ensured prolonged wealth. I believe the fairness of the English and some of Russia is attributed to their genes. I don't believe they were any more barbaric than any other population at the time.
105 posted on 12/07/2001 9:08:09 AM PST by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: blam
Where is that Scot's dirk?

I thought they always carried a razor sharp double edged dirk in case they had to settle an arguement beyond the reach of fisticuffs.

106 posted on 12/07/2001 9:25:33 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
"I thought they always carried a razor sharp double edged dirk"

That's the Skean Dhu.

107 posted on 12/07/2001 11:33:18 AM PST by blam
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Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
"In Scotland the proportion of those with Celtic ancestry was found to be little different from the population of southern England."

PROBLEM 1:

Highland Scots and Lowland Scots have very different ethnic backgrounds. Did this study distinguish between the two? Highland Scots are mainly Celtic with some Norman and Scandinavian blood. Lowland Scots supposedly had more Saxon, Flemish, and other northeastern European genes.

PROBLEM 2

"Researchers took swabs of saliva from 2,000 people in 30 locations around Britain, and from 400 people in Norway, Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein, the area in northern Germany identified by the team as a homeland of the AngloSaxons."

The researchers are assuming the present population of Schleswig_Holstein is derived from the Anglo-Saxon people of the 400's and 600's. These people may have moved to England to escape pressure from other invading Germanic Tribes from the East who then settled in the old Saxon Homeland. As a matter of fact, the modern language most closely related to English and Anglo-Saxon today is Frisian, a language spoken by a small population in the Netherlands.

PROBLEM 3

"On the mainland, the survey found that 70% of those tested in York were from the continental European groups rather than the indigenous population, suggesting that the Anglo-Saxons made more of an impact on the Celts in northern England."

York was part of the Danelaw, the area settled by Danish Vikings in the 800s and 900s, a group presumably more closely connected with the modern population of northeastern Europe than were the Anglo-Saxons.

"Many of the place names in southern England have Celtic origins. Among them are Leatherhead, in Surrey, which meant "the grey ford". "

So what? In the U.S. many of the place names are Indian in origin. Yet the American Indian component in America's current bloodline, while there, is not pervasive. Traditionally, place names used by a displaced or conquered race are employed by the conquerors - i.e. all the "chesters" in England form the Latin "Castra", etc.

OBSERVATION

"If you believe Gildas, the Anglo-Saxons would have been chasing the ancient Britons, catching up with one who wasn’t fast enough and saying, ‘Look here, before I cut off your head, just tell me the name of this place’,"

Its more likely that the Anglo-Saxons, being better organized and more warlike, conquered the Celtic masses, used them as serfs and slaves and intermarried with them. (This was a process which was occuring in Gaul before the Roamn legions stepped in and blocked the Germanic advance for a few centuries.) As time progressed, the two separate populations became fused into one. There are clearly individuals today in England who have Germanic features and others who have Celtic features and some a combination of both or neither.

109 posted on 12/07/2001 12:00:19 PM PST by ZULU
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To: blam
Basque was apparently once spoken in much larger area in western Europe. Latin records refer to Vasscones living in what was then southwestern Gaul - the area known as Aquitaine in the Middle Ages. Vascones is related to the term "Gascon" for a person from that area of France.

Some scholars believe Basque is actually related to the languages spoken by the early Cro-Magnon invaders of Europe.

Basque isn't the only linguistic anomaly in Europe. There is also Pictish, the language spoken by the early inhabitants of Scotland, Elymian - a language spoken in western ancient Sicily, Etruscan, a whole group of languages spoken in the Alpine area in ancient times, the ancient Iberian language of southern Spain, and ancient Minoan (Pre-Linear B which was actually an ancient form of Greek)>

110 posted on 12/07/2001 12:19:15 PM PST by ZULU
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To: facedown
ping
111 posted on 12/07/2001 12:22:09 PM PST by sistergoldenhair
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To: LostTribe
You're right, the later waves of vikings were looking for land to settle (Which is why the Icelanders speak a variety of Old Norse). But they were initially just looking for easy quick riches and slave girls.
112 posted on 12/07/2001 12:27:51 PM PST by LN2Campy
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To: Cleburne
Did you ever hear of a bersekr? They were Viking warriors who behaved in much the same way, possibly eating hallucinogenic mushrooms before going into action. Appropriately enough, they were throughly feared.

As for the Romans fearing Celts - not very likely. Particularly since a lot of Romans WERE Celts. The typical Roman helmit was actually called a Gallic Helmet. Thos large rectangular shields the Romans used were based on a Celtic model and the famous gladius, or Roman short sword was actually called the gladius Hispaniensis by the Romans as it was adopted from the Celt-Iberians in Spain. The Romans, although originating in Central Italy, both adopted conquered people into their system, as well as their tools, ideas and customs. In a sense this was the great strength of the Empire, its ability to absorb and incorporate conquered people into the political and military structure, rather than attempt to keep all the wealth and power for themselves. Its also, in a way, the strength of America, take the best which is sent to or immigrates to us, and discard the rest.

113 posted on 12/07/2001 12:34:14 PM PST by ZULU
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To: blam
Got it! Thanks for the education.
114 posted on 12/07/2001 12:40:22 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Cacique
thanks for the links!
115 posted on 12/07/2001 12:40:56 PM PST by LN2Campy
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To: blam
DNA testing like this will revolutionize our perceptions about history, point out some obvious flaws, and maybe teach us something about ourselves.
116 posted on 12/07/2001 12:45:25 PM PST by 4CJ
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To: blam
Watever it's worth, the English name Moore is an Anglicized form of the Gaelic Murphy
117 posted on 12/07/2001 1:08:14 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: blam
Thanks for the in-depth profile of the beaker people. All that I remembered from reading about many years ago were that they were a neolithic farming people.

Have you ever seen a copy of "Ancient American"?

118 posted on 12/07/2001 2:16:41 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: LN2Campy
Did the Vikings Stay? Vatican Files May Offer Clues

By WALTER GIBBS
Courtesy of JM Stenersens Forlag

SLO, Dec. 18 — Excavations prove that a few score Norsemen bumped ashore in northern Newfoundland 1,000 years ago, landing in America almost 500 years before Columbus. But scholars generally dismiss the event with an asterisk because they say it did not change the course of history.

Have they sold the Vikings short?

Dr. Thor Heyerdahl, the Norwegian anthropologist, thinks so, but then, he is no conventional scholar. He is best known for the perilous "Kon Tiki" raft expedition from Peru to Polynesia in 1947, made to illustrate that ancient South American Indians could have colonized the Pacific.

In interviews and a new book, Dr. Heyerdahl and Per Lilliestrom, a Swedish map expert, claim that thousands of their hardy Norse ancestors may have prospered in the land that Leif Ericson christened "Vinland" in A.D. 1000. In their view, the colonists spread as far south as today's New York City, fishing, tending farm animals and cutting timber for several hundred years under the solicitous eye of the Catholic Church in Rome.

"Vinland is more than most people think," said Dr. Heyerdahl, robust and combative at 86. "I would draw the boundaries of Vinland to include the area from Hudson Strait in the north down through the Gulf of St. Lawrence and all the way down to Long Island. Why would they stop?"

Dr. Heyerdahl has an affinity with the tough Norsemen who ventured into water so foreboding that medieval map makers illustrated it with dragons and whirlpools. After gaining fame for "Kon Tiki," Dr. Heyerdahl sailed from Morocco to Barbados on a primitive-style reed vessel to promote the idea that ancient Mediterranean mariners could have paid visits to Central America. His theory of a Greater Vinland is nearly as daring, coming just as other prominent scholars have closed ranks around a minimalist account of the Norse journeys.

The view held by most established scholars is that the height of Norse civilization in America consisted of eight sod buildings and a blacksmith forge. They were excavated in the 1960's at L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland. A bronze cloak pin, iron rivets and other artifacts from the blustery site are part of "Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga," an exhibit at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan.

L'Anse aux Meadows settlers almost certainly came from Greenland, where Leif Ericson's father, Eric the Red, founded a Norse colony in A.D. 987. But no more than 90 people seem to have occupied the Newfoundland outpost, and they left after a few years. The Greenlandic mother colony lasted half a millennium, then disappeared in one of anthropology's great mysteries. Its population reached a peak of 2,000 to 5,000 people in the 1200's.

In making their case that Norsemen wandered through much of the American Northeast, Dr. Heyerdahl and Mr. Lilliestrom cited medieval European writings and maps suggesting that the Greenlanders were on to something big. They also mounted a fresh scientific defense of "Norse" artifacts that most experts have dismissed as phony or misidentified: a rune stone from Minnesota, a mysterious stone tower in Newport, R.I., and Yale's "Vinland Map."

The result is a book, "Ingen Grenser," Norwegian for "No Boundaries." It will be revised and retitled before release in English in 2001, according to the publishing house J. M. Stenersens Forlag.

The unique approach of Dr. Heyerdahl and Mr. Lilliestrom was to cast a Roman Catholic glow over medieval Greenland and Vinland. They even called Leif Ericson "a Catholic missionary." The sagas say he was baptized at the royal court in Norway before converting Greenland to Christianity and discovering the new Western lands.

It was in the Vatican Library in Rome that Dr. Heyerdahl found the earliest reference to a land beyond Greenland, in Adam of Bremen's "History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen" from 1075.

"He also spoke of another island," Adam wrote, referring to his interview with King Svend Estridsen of Denmark, "which many have found in this great ocean, and which is named Vinland because grapes grow wild there, and yield the best wine. There is also an abundance of self- sown grain, as we know not from hearsay only, but from the sure report of the Danes."

Dr. Heyerdahl said, "I think few people are aware that 400 years before Columbus, the papal see knew there was land over there." He noted that 16 bishops were assigned to oversee Greenland and associated lands between 1112 and the demise of the Greenlandic colony around 1500.

The clearest suggestion that something transformative had taken place in North America came from the hand of a 17th century Icelandic bishop. Citing 14th century annals that have been lost, the bishop, Gisli Oddsson, wrote: "The inhabitants of Greenland, of their own free will, abandoned the true faith and the Christian religion, having already forsaken all good ways and true virtues, and joined themselves with the folk of America."

Scattered Norse finds in eastern Canada do suggest that the Greenlanders crossed the northern Davis Strait for centuries to trade with the Inuit or to cut timber, but there is no sign of wholesale resettlement. And the only undisputedly Norse object found in today's United States was an 11th century silver coin from Norway that turned up in Maine.

By contrast, the American scenario in "No Boundaries" is a rich one:

Settlers and traders from throughout the North Atlantic drifted west to escape the grasp of royal tax collectors and bishops demanding tithes. On becoming Vinlanders, they lived primitively, much as French trappers did centuries later, marrying Indian women and leaving few traces.

According to Mr. Lilliestrom, their numbers may have spiked around 1110. A reported 10,000 Norwegian crusaders returning from the Middle East sailed through the Strait of Gibraltar that year, but there is no record of a homecoming in Norway. Mr. Lilliestrom thinks they may have sailed or been swept westward on the current that would later bring Spaniards to America. On sighting land, he said, they would instinctively have turned north and found the Vinland farers.

Such an infusion would have raised Vinland's profile, accounting for later mentions of the place in Icelandic annals and even, Mr. Lilliestrom said, on the infamous Vinland Map.

In 1957, Yale bought the map, supposedly drawn before Columbus yet showing "Vinilanda Insula" in the Northwest Atlantic. When chemical analysis suggested the ink contained a 20th century synthetic version of titanium dioxide, the map was denounced as a fraud. But Mr. Lilliestrom denounced the denouncers after a chemistry experiment of his own:

From the Swiss Alps, where the Vinland Map was purportedly made, he acquired natural anatase crystals and ground them finely in accord with ink-making instructions from a 15th century German art book. The resulting titanium dioxide ink was, he claimed, identical with the chemical and crystalline structure of the ink on the Vinland Map.

For Mr. Lilliestrom, the significance of the map is its Latin notation stating that Vinland was visited in 1117 by "Henricus, apostolic legate and bishop of Greenland and the nearby areas.

"There must have been a Christian congregation in Vinland/America at that time, because otherwise the pope would not have sent a man so high up in the church's hierarchy," he said.

In his view, the Norse Vinlanders later dissolved so thoroughly into the Indian population that only their light skin and the occasional pair of blue eyes remained for European explorers to remark upon in the 16th century as they sailed along a coast identified on their maps as "Norumbega" or "Normanvilla."

When Dr. Heyerdahl discussed "No Boundaries" at the University of Oslo recently, more than 600 people crowded the hall. Skeptics said they feared the "Kon Tiki" adventurer could touch off a wave of uncritical Vikingmania in North America.

"This is farther out than anything he has ever done before," said Birgitta Wallace, a Parks Canada archaeologist who devoted 20 years of her career to L'Anse aux Meadows. "In my opinion, it's not much more than a fantasy."

119 posted on 12/07/2001 2:18:27 PM PST by blam
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To: rightofrush
"Have you ever seen a copy of "Ancient American"?"

Yup. Just received my first copy, I subscribed.

120 posted on 12/07/2001 2:20:56 PM PST by blam
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To: Interesting Times
An interesting follow-up study would be to look at the mitochondrial DNA of these same families. This DNA is passed exclusively from mother to child.
121 posted on 12/07/2001 2:26:56 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: LostTribe
Catastrophic event preceded Dark Ages - scientist

Updated 12:40 PM ET September 8, 2000

LONDON (Reuters) - Something catastrophic occurred on Earth 1,500 years ago that may have led to the Dark Ages and coincided with the end of the Roman Empire and the death of King Arthur, a Northern Ireland scientist said Friday. It could have been a bombardment of cometary debris or the eruption of a super volcano.

But whatever it was, it is clearly etched in the chronology of tree rings from around the world, according to Professor Mike Baillie, of Queen's University in Belfast.

The global environmental event that occurred around 540 AD is not recorded in any history books. But the tree ring chronologies compiled from samples of trees, some preserved in bogs, which date back thousands of years, single out something that was quite extraordinary.

"It was a catastrophic environmental downturn that shows up in trees all over the world," Baillie told a news conference at the British Association for the Advancement of Science conference. "This event is clear in the tree ring records."

(The 540AD event is not recorded, dust/acid layer, in the ice core samples. That's the source of the comet speculation)

122 posted on 12/07/2001 3:48:28 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
>Catastrophic event preceded Dark Ages

Makes sense to me. What do you have around the year 722 BC, in the Eastern Med?

123 posted on 12/07/2001 4:22:05 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: blam
Or ~600 BC in the upper fertile crescent?
124 posted on 12/07/2001 4:23:36 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"What do you have around the year 722 BC, in the Eastern Med?"

Nothing. I have major 'tree ring events' at 1628BC, 1159BC and 540AD. There are two minor events at 207BC and 44BC. These are all worldwide events. I will check the tree ring charts and see if I can see anything 'localized' around 722BC. What about that date (722BC) interests you?

125 posted on 12/07/2001 4:50:16 PM PST by blam
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To: LostTribe
"Never mind, I see your interest."

Lost Tribes, an Encarta Encyclopedia Article Titled "Lost Tribes"
Lost Tribes , in Jewish history, ten tribes that inhabited the kingdom of Israel and many of whose members were exiled by Sargon II, king of Assyria (reigned 722-705 BC), after the Assyrian conquest (722 BC) of http://encarta.msn.com/index/conciseindex/4B/04B22000.htm?z=1&pg=2&br=1

126 posted on 12/07/2001 4:54:36 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Yup. Just received my first copy, I subscribed.

I have for some time. Enjoy.

Keep in mind that it is a low-budget operation and they print whatever is sent in over the transom.

127 posted on 12/07/2001 5:32:33 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: Arthalion
Irish legend has it that there were seven different invasions of Ireland, by seven different peoples.
128 posted on 12/07/2001 5:35:33 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: ZULU
Highland Scots and Lowland Scots have very different ethnic backgrounds. Did this study distinguish between the two? Highland Scots are mainly Celtic with some Norman and Scandinavian blood. Lowland Scots supposedly had more Saxon, Flemish, and other northeastern European genes.

It has been my supposition that the Highland Scots were mostly Pictish survivors, while the lowland Scots were principally from the Scotia tribe that came over from Ireland in the 5th and 6th centuries and first settled in Argyle.

129 posted on 12/07/2001 5:44:10 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: ZULU
York was part of the Danelaw, the area settled by Danish Vikings in the 800s and 900s, a group presumably more closely connected with the modern population of northeastern Europe than were the Anglo-Saxons.

This remindes me of one of my pet peeves. "By" was a suffix or prefix meaning town in the Danelaw.

Byways are therefore roads or ways through town. Their center was depressed, serving as a gutter.
Highways are roads or ways between towns with a raised center for drainage.
Why are rual senic roads called "byways"? Ignorance!
The expression "By and large" refers to what is true or revalent in both town and country. "At large" refers to someone at loose in the countryside.

130 posted on 12/07/2001 5:56:04 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: blam
For about four hundred years after Kenneth, Scotland suffered much at the hands of the Norsemen or Danes. They came chiefly from Norway and Denmark, and were nearly related to the English. ...Those fierce Norsemen, or Northmen, were also called Vikings, and were just such a torment to the English and the Scots, as the English were to the Britons in the fifth century....By-and-by they were no longer content to plunder and sail away. They came in swarms and tried to settle the land. In the ninth century they seized the Orkney Islands, and somewhat later the Western Islands or Hebrides....These sea-rovers often sailed up the Firths of Tay, Forth, and Clyde, and more than one king of the Scots lost his life in battle with them....the Scots also gained victories over them, and were often able to beat them back to their ships. At last, the Norsemen, kept to the islands, which remained in their hands for a long time.- History of Scotland to Union of the Crowns, Douglas Reader III, 1909. (Wipe out the Celts, HAH!)
131 posted on 12/07/2001 6:03:59 PM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: blam; LN2Campy; Cacique; arthurus; Citizen of the Savage Nation; austinTparty...
In regards to the Celts in Spain, their modern day descendents are the people of Galicia and Asturias.

Galicia

Nobody is quite certain where the Basques originated from. Some think that they are the descendents of the original Iberians.

When the Celts first invaded Iberia, they conquered the northern half of the peninsula from present day France to Portugal. As time passed, the Basques reconquered their present territory cutting off the nortrhwestern Celts in Spain from their cousins in France.

The Celts in central Spain intermarried with the Iberians to form the Celt-Iberians encountered by the Romans. The Galician and the Asturian tribes, however, retained a purer Celtic character protected by the Cantabrian Mountains to the south and the sea to the north.

The name "Galicia" is derived from the Roman name for the region Caellecia which means "Lands of the Celts". The archeology of the period yields Celtic hill forts (Castros) and the Celtic torques common to the Celts.

Galicia was the last Celtic stronghold on the European Continent conquered by the Romans. They were not defeated until the Cantabrian War in 25 B.C. and were not fully subdued until the campaign of Augustus' general Agrippa in 19 B.C.

"Not many of the Cantabri were taken prisoner, for when they saw they had lost all hope of freedom, they lost all desire to preserve their lives either. Some set fire to their forts and cut their own throats, others willingly remained with their companions and died in the flames, while others took poison in the sight of all. In this way the great majority and the fiercest among the tribesmen were wiped out."......Cassius Dio, Roman History (XLIV.5)

"...Spain by the nature of the country and the character of its people, was better adapted than any other place in the world to making loses good for a renewal of hostilities. This is the reason why Spain, though it was the first mainland province to be entered by the Romans, was the last to be completely subdued, and held out till our own times, when it was finally conquered under the leadership and auspices of Augustus Caesar.".....The History of Rome (XXVIII.12)

Today, the national musical instrument of Galicia is the bagpipe and the dancing resembles the Irish dance.

My Y chromosome comes from Galicia. It would be interesting to see DNA studies comparing all the Celtic homelands in Europe.

132 posted on 12/07/2001 6:08:30 PM PST by Polybius
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To: MozartLover
Linconshire north of London back to 1751 and full Danish on the other side, and Dutch on one other side, and no wonder I love to drink beer.

Who invented ale/beer?

133 posted on 12/07/2001 6:17:25 PM PST by oldtimer
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To: RightWhale
One of my ancestral families is the Yarbrough family, traced back to 853 AD in Lincolnshire.
134 posted on 12/07/2001 6:21:33 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: oldtimer
Who invented ale/beer?

Beer has been with us at least 4-5000 years. It was known to Summarians and Egyptians.

135 posted on 12/07/2001 6:24:17 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: rightofrush
"Irish legend has it that there were seven different invasions of Ireland, by seven different peoples."

Do you know anything about the Fomorians? They were black and supposedly attacked and captured part of Ireland? Further, I have read one anthropologist speculate about Leprechauns, he said that the Bushmen were the original Irish and the source of the legends of the Leprechauns. I went off and read a lot about the Bushmen, they do fit the bill.
The African Bushmen are in fact Asians and their young have the tell-tell Mongoloid spots on their backs. They are small, have pointed ears and could be described as impish. There are no more pure Bushmen, they have intermingled with the Bantu (blacks) of Africa.

(your thoughts on this?)

136 posted on 12/07/2001 6:33:53 PM PST by blam
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To: oldtimer
Dorsetshire back to the 1500's.

I don't know who invented beer. My hubby thinks he did.:)

137 posted on 12/07/2001 7:24:14 PM PST by MozartLover
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To: stands2reason
Do you have any old stories of noteworthy events that might have happened to your earliest known ancestors? We have one concerning a king who came around the homestead looking for troops for his army.
138 posted on 12/07/2001 7:45:50 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: blam
>What about that date (722BC) interests you?

That is the approximate date the Northern Kingdom was taken into captivity by the Assyrians. Actually, the captivity took place in waves and was spread over a number of years, but that single date is most often cited as a reference point. How that evacuation of millions of people might tie in with tree rings seems obscure to me at this point.

I would speculate that 610 BC, when they escaped bondage and 5 Million headed north through the Caucasus Mountains to soon be discovered by history as The Celts might have a better chance at having a tie to a catyclism. Sort of like being sprung from prison following an earthquake???

139 posted on 12/07/2001 8:16:30 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"How that evacuation of millions of people might tie in with tree rings seems obscure to me at this point."

You may be suprised. 2-3 Chinese dynasties collapsed concident with the tree ring 'event' dates. Okay, I don't see anything in the tree ring data for 722BC or 600BC. I will keep the dates in my mind and alert you if I come across anything centered around those dates.

140 posted on 12/07/2001 8:31:27 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
I thought the Very Old Folk, or Dark Folk were the Picts.

I have this wonderful book, titled "The Celtic Heroic Age", which is a compendium of historical accounts of the Celts. There is a great quote from Strabo, in which he says the Irish like to eat their dead and do the whap-a-dang with their siblings.

We came from a fun bunch.

141 posted on 12/07/2001 8:45:36 PM PST by lavrenti
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To: blam
>I will keep the dates in my mind and alert you if I come across anything centered around those dates.

Thanks, I appreciate it. -LT

142 posted on 12/07/2001 9:00:20 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: blam
Would you believe that some Lakota have rare mitochondrial genes only found among Scandanavians? My teacher who was Cherokee said that some Viking children were captured and incorporated into some of the Indian tribes. Apparently the adults were killed off first.
143 posted on 12/07/2001 9:23:06 PM PST by Eternal_Bear
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To: Polybius
Interesting post. Thanks.
144 posted on 12/07/2001 9:30:44 PM PST by Hemlock
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To: Eternal_Bear
"Would you believe that some Lakota have rare mitochondrial genes only found among Scandanavians?"

Amazing huh?

145 posted on 12/07/2001 9:32:06 PM PST by blam
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To: Lumberjack
I wouldn't have any DNA from ANY Indians tribe, and your statement about this is silly !
146 posted on 12/07/2001 9:37:58 PM PST by nopardons
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To: RightWhale
Nem ! Hungarian is NOT in any way related to the Basque language or peoples . Finnish, yes, and there are some surprising food relationship with the Japanese. There is a biological relationship ( not lingusitic ! ) , between true Magyars and , of all people, Eskimos.
147 posted on 12/07/2001 9:48:03 PM PST by nopardons
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To: ZULU
You left out the Picts , who were NOT Celtic.
148 posted on 12/07/2001 10:13:30 PM PST by nopardons
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To: RightWhale
I know the Yarbrough's were famous for being gamblers; they were Anglo-Saxon nobles who cozened up to William after 1066. My only famous ancestors (that I know of) are my 12x great Uncle Henry Hudson, and my g-great grandfather Ishom G. Harris, the governor of Tennessee who engineered (actually forced) Tennessee's entry into the Civil War--he also served as Senator for Tenn. for about 20 years and died in office.
149 posted on 12/07/2001 10:22:42 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: nopardons
The Picts not Celtic? How c0uld they interact with the Scots if they weren't?
150 posted on 12/07/2001 11:17:49 PM PST by rightofrush
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