Posted on 12/06/2001 9:06:57 PM PST by ouroboros
You know, the man has a point. What do Americans, British, Australians,
and Europeans in general believe in these days?
Diversity and multi-culturalism?
Belloc and / or Pat are still claiming athat ALL Protestants are " heritics " I see , and lumpin ISLAM i with the Reformation is particularly offensive and NOT at all accurate.
Belloc and / or Pat are still claiming that ALL Protestants are " heritics " I see , and lumping ISLAM in with the Reformation is particularly offensive and NOT at all accurate.
Pat's question is rhetorical, of course, but I'd make a slightly different point: the war of civilizations is not coming, it has already been in progress throughout human history. That's part of what human beings do--they take care of their own and display group egoism...which entails conflict and competition with alien groups.
Now, about Pat's comparison of the fighting spirit of Islam v. Christianity, he is right on the money. We can see it in George W. Bush's cautious refrains that we can't discriminate against our fellow "American" Muslims at home, Islam is a religion of peace, etc. You see, the funny thing is this: Western man has been the most compassionate in history, and that wonderful trait is exactly what will kill him in this world. The West is just too PC to do what it takes to hold the line, while the Muslims don't just hold the line--they want to expand it. Although if we took the right measures, they would be unlikely to expand their caliphate into America, given their innate limitations regarding the ability to adapt and maintain Western technology.
Of course, there are those out there who will say it's "racist" to do what it really takes to eliminate the Muslim problem, but that accusation should tell us something...those who fail to be adequately illiberal end up being the suckers that get beaten by those who refused to beat their swords into plowshares.
So does this line of argument erase or invalidate Pat's non-interventionist foreign policy stance? Nope. I see it as part of the solution. Americans need to stop pretending to be the British Empire and come home, and think about the issues I raise above. I feel that only such an "ingathering," in which Americans clean up their own country and live in a sense of solidarity exclusively among themselves, will the appreciation of the truths discussed above help--it will create a "critical mass" of the right kind of group egoism needed to counter that of the Muslims. And like I said, once we deport the ones on our soil, seal our borders, and deploy the proper intelligence networkm we won't be seeing Muslims this side of the ocean for a very long time, so we have the time to reconnect with our true identities. America needs to recenter herself, recharge her batteries, and remember just what it means to be an American versus a Muslim.
So the issue is not a simple us vs. them. Islam is up against a lot of perils that have nothing to do with us. Islamic states cannot govern themselves, cannot live amongst their own Islamic neighbors, and cannot in general get their cultural & economic act together. They are dangerous because of their reality negating ways and fanatism, but they are often impotent for similar reasons. I agree with Pat that we have to have the will to act - but once we do the advantage becomes ours overwhelmingly.
When has an Islamic nation had success in any war against a Western foe in the last 50 years or more? Arab countries especially have a humiliating track record in this regard.
As is often the case, Pat has some very interesting insights but I can't agree with his major point.
So the issue is not a simple us vs. them. Islam is up against a lot of perils that have nothing to do with us. Islamic states cannot govern themselves, cannot live amongst their own Islamic neighbors, and cannot in general get their cultural & economic act together. They are dangerous because of their reality negating ways and fanatism, but they are often impotent for similar reasons. I agree with Pat that we have to have the will to act - but once we do the advantage becomes ours overwhelmingly.
When has an Islamic nation had success in any war against a Western foe in the last 50 years or more? Arab countries especially have a humiliating track record in this regard.
As is often the case, Pat has some very interesting insights but I can't agree with his major point about the underlying strength of Islam.
Muslims will mainly be fighting among themselves, or surrendering; sadly a few will persist with terrorism. Those are characteristics of this diabolical grouping of human flesh. I therefore reckon civilized nations will battle with them, until the Muslims adopt secular, democratic governance.
They are like angry juvenile delinquents, incapable of grasping a mainly adult world. Even when educated in English language, engineering, they do not become civilized.
Pat forgot to add protectionism to his list.
He must be on drugs, all of these ideologies are still festering. defeated but not out. Every now and then a nail sticks out and it is nailed down.
Yes it is a war of civilization and Islam flourishes because of ignorance and illiteracy, plus the fact that they live in controlled societies where the state controls the press and information.
Our mistake has been to back all the petty tyrants in the area to the point there is not one democracy in ANY Islamic country with the possible exception of Turkey (and they are not an exemplary model).
Islam like Communism can be defeated the same way we defeated communism, back the dissidents and let their societies reform from within. Embargoe their economies to force them to straighten out. Back the Islamic reformers. Islam has never had a reformation, it is unchanged since the time of Mohamed, no separation of church and state and no secularist philosophical movements. That needs to change.
As long as our only criteria for dealing with these countries is oil profits or acccess to minerals and we support backward 12th century regimes the problem will continue unabated.
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