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Explorers View 'Lost City' Ruins Under Caribbean
Reuters ^ | December 6, 2001 | Andrew Cawthorne

Posted on 12/06/2001 9:37:13 PM PST by spycatcher

HAVANA (Reuters) - Explorers using a miniature submarine to probe the sea floor off the coast of Cuba said on Thursday they had confirmed the discovery of stone structures deep below the ocean surface that may have been built by an unknown human civilization thousands of years ago.

Researchers with a Canadian exploration company said they filmed over the summer ruins of a possible submerged ``lost city'' off the Guanahacabibes Peninsula on the Caribbean island's western tip. The researchers cautioned that they did not fully understand the nature of their find and planned to return in January for further analysis, the expedition leader said on Thursday.

The explorers said they believed the mysterious structures, discovered at the astounding depth of around 2,100 feet and laid out like an urban area, could have been built at least 6,000 years ago. That would be about 1,500 years earlier than the great Giza pyramids of Egypt.

``It's a really wonderful structure which looks like it could have been a large urban center,'' said Soviet-born Canadian ocean engineer Paulina Zelitsky, from British Columbia-based Advanced Digital Communications (ADC). ``However, it would be totally irresponsible to say what it was before we have evidence,'' Zelitsky told Reuters.

Zelitsky said the structures may have been built by unknown people when the current sea-floor actually was above the surface. She said volcanic activity may explain how the site ended up at great depths below the Caribbean Sea.

In July 2000, ADC researchers using sophisticated side-scan sonar equipment identified a large underwater plateau with clear images of symmetrically organized stone structures that looked like an urban development partly covered by sand. From above, the shapes resembled pyramids, roads and buildings, they said.

``ULISES'' ASSISTS UNDERWATER ODYSSEY

This past July, ADC researchers, along with the firm's Cuban partner and experts from the Cuban Academy of Sciences, returned to the site in their ship ``Ulises.'' They said they sent a miniature, unmanned submarine called a Remotely Operated Vehicle (ROV) down to film parts of the 7.7-square-mile area.

Those images confirmed the presence of huge, smooth, cut granite-like blocks in perpendicular and circular formations, some in pyramid shapes, the researchers said. Most of the blocks, measuring between about 6.5 and 16 feet in length, were exposed, some stacked one on another, the researchers said. Others were covered in sediment and the fine, white sand that characterizes the area, the researchers said.

The intriguing discovery provided evidence that Cuba at one time was joined to mainland Latin America via a strip of land from the Yucatan Peninsula, the researchers said.

``There are many new hypotheses about land movement and colonialization, and what we are seeing here should provide very interesting new information,'' Zelitsky said.

ADC's deep-water equipment includes a satellite-integrated ocean bottom positioning system, high-precision side-scan double-frequency sonar, and the ROV. The company currently is commissioning what it calls the world's first custom-designed ocean excavator for marine archeology to begin work both at the Guanahacabibes site and at ship wrecks.

ADC is the deepest operator among four foreign firms working in joint venture with President Fidel Castro (news - web sites)'s government to explore Cuban waters containing hundreds of treasure-laden ships from the colonial era. The Canadian company already has discovered several historic sunken Spanish ships.

In an earlier high-profile find, ADC was testing equipment in late 2000 off Havana Bay when it spotted the century-old wreck of the American battleship USS Maine. The ship had not been located since it blew up mysteriously in 1898, killing 260 American sailors and igniting the Spanish-American War.

The rush of interest in Cuba's seas in recent years is due in part to the Castro government's recognition that it does not have the money or technology to carry out systematic exploration by itself, although it does have excellent divers.

American companies are prohibited from operating in Cuba by the long-running U.S. embargo on the Communist-run island.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Canada; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: atlantis; canada; caribbean; catastrophism; cuba; godsgravesglyphs; history; noteworthy; paulinazelitsky; plato; russia; russianreliability; sunkencivilizations
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Old background info posted here

For some reason the Free Republic search engine doesn't search posts more than a week or two old, so a more recent posted update isn't available to link. I found this old one using Google, but they don't index more recent FR stuff.

1 posted on 12/06/2001 9:37:13 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: spycatcher
Hello, Atlantis. MAYBE....:)
2 posted on 12/06/2001 9:40:26 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
Here's the more recent exclusive that scooped the mainstream media by two weeks and prompted Reuters to update their original report.
3 posted on 12/06/2001 9:47:27 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: rwfromkansas
Atlantis?

No.

Flash Gordon's secret base.

4 posted on 12/06/2001 9:51:06 PM PST by Phil V.
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To: spycatcher
What remained of The Maine was refloated after the investigation into her explosion. She was towed to sea beyond the 12 mile limit and scuttled in International waters. The location of her re-sinking has been known since that time. Again, the press can't get it right.
5 posted on 12/06/2001 9:53:50 PM PST by Traction
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To: Phil V.
I doubt Atlantis is as large as initially thought, but at the same time, the literary record speaks of such a place. Contrary to most people who just brush off something they think is too far-fetched, I at least have an open mind on this. This may not be it, but it is one of the areas that is looked at geographically.
6 posted on 12/06/2001 9:54:36 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: spycatcher
Seems to coincide well with the age of the Flood. More evidence!
7 posted on 12/06/2001 9:56:31 PM PST by CalConservative
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To: spycatcher
Probably natural rock formations.
8 posted on 12/06/2001 9:57:13 PM PST by crypt2k
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To: spycatcher
Zelitsky said the structures may have been built by unknown people when the current sea-floor actually was above the surface.

Interesting theory....

9 posted on 12/06/2001 10:07:54 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: blam
Another lost city thread. :^)
10 posted on 12/06/2001 10:09:15 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: Traction
Scientists stumble upon sunken Maine
11 posted on 12/06/2001 10:11:29 PM PST by crypt2k
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To: spycatcher
Lost city? How careless can one get? I mean, to misplace an entire city for centuries...
12 posted on 12/06/2001 10:12:24 PM PST by The_Expatriate
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To: Traction
You're right that it was found and raised but at the time it only had to be towed 3-4 miles out for reburial in international waters.
13 posted on 12/06/2001 10:12:26 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: spycatcher
Here's a link to the same story - different source: Update on Underwater Megalithic Structures near Western Cuba. Very interesting, many pictures and diagrams.
14 posted on 12/06/2001 10:14:47 PM PST by jrewingjr
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To: Phil V.
"Atlantis" was a myth totally invented by Plato. Whatever this is, it's not Atlantis -- if nothing else, there wasn't any contact between the west and east hemispheres!
15 posted on 12/06/2001 10:15:39 PM PST by Anotherpundit
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To: jrewingjr
Hey I just posted that! Thanks anyhow, but what I couldn't find was the Free Republic post of that same article from a couple of weeks ago.
16 posted on 12/06/2001 10:17:16 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: spycatcher
Speaking of scooped, sorry I did not see your link in #3 when I posted my reply. Stupid eyes! Everyone should check it out. I listened to the story on the air and checked out the site a couple of weeks ago. Really amazing stuff.
17 posted on 12/06/2001 10:19:50 PM PST by jrewingjr
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To: Phil V.
Flash Gordon's secret base has a higher probability.

Plato definitively located Atlantis as outside the pillars of Hercules. And he ought to know, since he made it up.

As in other of his writings, Plato made overt and exlicit use of myths and stories as instructional aids, especially for communicating moral lessons to children, which is the context in which the Atlantis story is put in the mouth of Timaeus.

It's a lot of fun to imagine a great ancient city lost beneath the waves, but that's all it is. The fact remains, there was no record of the Atlantis myth anywhere, ever, in any language, before Plato's stories.

It is a better thing to cultivate wonder at the mysteries of the real world, rather than to besot the imagination with idle fantasies...

18 posted on 12/06/2001 10:20:30 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: spycatcher
No, you fools, it's Fidel's underwater hideaway!
19 posted on 12/06/2001 10:21:03 PM PST by billybudd
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To: spycatcher
The Nameless City by H. P. Lovecraft
20 posted on 12/06/2001 10:22:46 PM PST by Clinton's a rapist
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To: spycatcher
I think it's part of an Atlantis Empire that covered the equatorial regions east of Asia all the way to the West of Spain. I think it was based on a sunken continent just east of the Philippines. I think it's empire covered the islands of the Pacific Ocean, the central parts of the Americas, and the islands off Spain and Africa. Old legends.
21 posted on 12/06/2001 10:25:08 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: The_Expatriate
"Lost city? How careless can one get? I mean, to misplace an entire city for centuries..."

Perhaps the city was a repository for some incriminating billing records of a corrupt first lady of a bygone era?

22 posted on 12/06/2001 10:26:40 PM PST by jrewingjr
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To: Thornwell Simons
"Atlantis" was a myth totally invented by Plato. Whatever this is, it's not Atlantis -- if nothing else, there wasn't any contact between the west and east hemispheres!

Why are the ancient Chapapoya Indians of Peru blond-haired then?

23 posted on 12/06/2001 10:27:34 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: spycatcher; B4Ranch
There is a Masonic tradidion that led to the founding of the Knights of the Golden Circle, which later became the Knights of the Ku Klux Clan (kuklus means "circle" in Greek). The plan was for a slave nation that incorporated the American South, Mexico, Central America, and the Northern Coast of South America. Havana was to be the capital. BTW, the Walker family (as in George WALKER Bush) was both a prime member of the KGC and had significant dealings in Nicaragua. There is speculation that the interest on the part of the KGC was in reviving the drug trade, and perhaps rediscovering the gold mines of the Aztecs.

Masonic traditions reach back to Zoroasterian origins, far enough back to have a record of such a city. There are other, more tangible evidences ancient exploration and perhaps trade with Central America conducted by both Hebrew and Phoenician civilizaions. There is evidence of a global drug trade extending back at least as far as the pre-Mosaic dynasties of Egypt.

24 posted on 12/06/2001 10:28:12 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: hinckley buzzard
It's a lot of fun to imagine a great ancient city lost beneath the waves, but that's all it is. The fact remains, there was no record of the Atlantis myth anywhere, ever, in any language, before Plato's stories.

There were many.

25 posted on 12/06/2001 10:29:57 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: Thornwell Simons
"Atlantis" was a myth totally invented by Plato. Whatever this is, it's not Atlantis -- if nothing else, there wasn't any contact between the west and east hemispheres!

Well now we know about YOUR credibility. There is WAY too much evidence on the archaeological record of pre-Columbian trade between the Americas and the Afro/European region for you to make an assertion like that responsibly.

26 posted on 12/06/2001 10:34:47 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: Thornwell Simons
Sorry about the link.
27 posted on 12/06/2001 10:37:07 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: crypt2k
If I'm not mistaken, I've seen pictures of part of this. Part of it was huge stones cut and placed side by side to form a long roadway. The part I saw was impossible to pass off as a natural occurance.
28 posted on 12/06/2001 10:41:06 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: Hopalong; Askel5; Romulus
This is significant. Some of our Masonic friends may have been onto something. See #24. Have we found the source of the "Ancient Wisdoms"?
29 posted on 12/06/2001 10:41:38 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: #3Fan
"Why are the ancient Chapapoya Indians of Peru blond-haired then?"

Not to mention the bowler (derby) hats! :)

30 posted on 12/06/2001 10:43:09 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: #3Fan
This is corroboration? Pillars of pure gold and emerald? Good Lord. Grow some critical judgment.

Why do you think the fables of one ancient storyteller somehow make the fables of another ancient storyteller true? How do you think legends spread?

You show me an ancient Egyptian document, or a great shining gold pillar, and I'll take it all back.(oh that's right, they all conveniently disappeared!)

Right now, what you have is the equivalent of saying that the tooth fairy is real because you read about Peter Pan and it mentions his friend Tinkerbell.

31 posted on 12/06/2001 10:44:05 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Clinton's a rapist
Hah! I was thinking Lovecraft when I read this too. R'leyh, anyone? The stars are right...
32 posted on 12/06/2001 10:47:44 PM PST by egarvue
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To: Thornwell Simons
"Atlantis" was a myth totally invented by Plato. Whatever this is, it's not Atlantis -- if nothing else, there wasn't any contact between the west and east hemispheres!

Would you care to explain how Egyptian (africa) mummies have been found with nicotine and cocaine (native american plants)in them then ??

A lot of what we call historical truth can be revealed as WAGS(wild ... guesses).

33 posted on 12/06/2001 10:55:17 PM PST by Centurion2000
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To: Thornwell Simons
Actually it's always been an amazing tightrope walk along Occam's razor to suggest that the construction of astrologically aligned Pyramids in Mexico and Egypt were a giant coincidence. Besides that, the ancient Olmec statues with features of both black and white people in Mexico has to be considered evidence of east-west contact.

"Martin Bernal, a historian of Cornell University, says it is important to remember that before the discovery of this Norse settlement in Newfoundland in 1965, theories about Viking voyages to America were dismissed as nonsense. What we have seen is a shift from the idea of Viking landings in America being seen as completely fantastic or partisan, to being accepted by every scholar in the field."

From here you'll find that quote and more info about botanical products that may have been traded much earlier than thought.

34 posted on 12/06/2001 10:56:10 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: spycatcher
bump
35 posted on 12/06/2001 10:57:42 PM PST by d4now
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To: Carry_Okie
Great article link, thanks
36 posted on 12/06/2001 10:59:34 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: hinckley buzzard
If there's evidence of a culture of some sort, it isn't invalid bacuse Plato or others wrote a story about something similar. An ancient flood was considered a mythological story as well until recently when hard evidence was found of cities under the Black Sea.

So don't base your concept of reality on old stories. I hope you see the irony that you are indeed doing that -- just as you tell others not to. There's no need to feel threatened when evidence arises that changes how we see the world and the past. It happens every day and we don't want you to have a heart attack!

37 posted on 12/06/2001 11:15:24 PM PST by spycatcher
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To: Don Joe
True. :^)
38 posted on 12/06/2001 11:20:01 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: spycatcher
Wonderful post, spycatcher...thankyou! And thank all of you for the interesting links. There is much food for thought.
39 posted on 12/06/2001 11:34:15 PM PST by brat
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To: hinckley buzzard
This is corroboration? Pillars of pure gold and emerald? Good Lord. Grow some critical judgment. Why do you think the fables of one ancient storyteller somehow make the fables of another ancient storyteller true?

When they all have the same story, it can't be a coincidence.

How do you think legends spread?

So you guys are saying that legends can easily spread but people can't?

You show me an ancient Egyptian document, or a great shining gold pillar, and I'll take it all back.(oh that's right, they all conveniently disappeared!)

They predated the common Egyptian dynasties.

Right now, what you have is the equivalent of saying that the tooth fairy is real because you read about Peter Pan and it mentions his friend Tinkerbell.

No, you have people spread all across the earth with the same story and now more and more cities that are 12000+ years old are being found to support those stories. See Tiahuanacu. It's astronomy structures are built to align the solsices as they were 13,000+ years ago due to the earth's wobble.

40 posted on 12/06/2001 11:40:52 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: spycatcher
There's no need to feel threatened when evidence arises that changes how we see the world and the past.

Very interesting. It seems that we have only slightly scratched the surface of the wonders yet to be discovered here on this small rock earth. You provide a service to FR, bringing out this topic, without jumping to some old (or new) speculative conclusion, as so often occurs with these types of discoveries.

41 posted on 12/07/2001 12:06:18 AM PST by jackbob
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To: jackbob
Thanks for the good words. It often stresses people out if something they believe is challenged by new evidence -- and they get emotional or angry or just dismiss it. I try to stick with logic and allow for the possibility that new evidence may contradict my worldview. Scientists can be much worse than Bible believers when it comes to that. Unprofessional scientists use smear tactics and spin against perceived enemies as often as the Democrats.

The preliminary evidence here at least rules out the conclusion that there is absolutely nothing to the find -- especially when you read the background info about the pre-Columbian inscriptions that appear to be on the stones.

42 posted on 12/07/2001 1:17:50 AM PST by spycatcher
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To: DoughtyOne
I think you're talking about the "Bimini Road."

From a USA Today article:

"Most of the skeptics I have read are of the 'Atlantis is impossible' variety, and have never done any exploration in the area at all," says Doug Richards, a geologist who has carried out research and written papers for the Meridian Institute, a Virginia Beach, Va., organization that sponsors research into the connection between mind and body. "I think that most likely it is a natural formation, but neither side of the debate has done the work necessary to prove it one way or the other."

Richards says at least part of the Bimini Road may be man-made. "For example, there are large stones balanced on top of smaller stones," he says. "Beachrock does not form that way naturally, so if it is beachrock, it appears to have been moved by humans. There is also a circle of stones that looks nothing like a natural beachrock formation."

43 posted on 12/07/2001 1:23:42 AM PST by spycatcher
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To: #3Fan
Edgar Cayce, the Sleeping Prophet, predicted that the lost city of Atlantis would be found around the time of the new century. His prophecy rate is in the 90% range. He died in 1947, and there are still many prophecy's that have not yet occurred. More info about him, his healing work, and his prophecys at A.R.E. (Association for Research and Enlightenment, in Virginia Beach, VA.)
44 posted on 12/07/2001 4:25:43 AM PST by Goldi-Lox
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To: Goldi-Lox
Didn't Edgar Cayce also say that California would sink into the ocean before 1998? Damn shame that didn't come true... (Just kidding, California FReepers. :P)

Sorry, but I'm just a bit skeptical of Edgar Cayce. Though I do believe that there was an Atlantis. Seems to me that all these underwater cities that people are finding all disappeared at the same time. Evidence of the Flood? Maybe. The timing does seem about right to me. Either way, I've always been a great fan of history, and a new discovery is always a great thing. I enjoy seeing the mysteries of the past being unraveled.
45 posted on 12/07/2001 4:41:00 AM PST by Green Knight
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To: spycatcher
The intriguing discovery provided evidence that Cuba at one time was joined to mainland Latin America via a strip of land from the Yucatan Peninsula, the researchers said.


46 posted on 12/07/2001 4:43:42 AM PST by Straight Vermonter
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To: spycatcher
Dr. Pangloss, we've found your El Dorado.

Hey, maybe Edgar Cayce WASN'T a complete whack job...



...nahhhhhh.

47 posted on 12/07/2001 5:20:37 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: rwfromkansas
Impossible. My son-in-law is a Christian fundamentalist and says the world has only been here for 5000 years max. Even the Grand Canyon was "created" in no time flat. Carbon dating is a hoax--untrue, inaccurate, and purely an attempt by atheistic scientists to disprove the bible. All the generally accepted views of millions and billions of years having been involved in universe history and the age of the earth is baloney. So, you see, my grandchildren are getting a solid foundation in common sense. How nice.
48 posted on 12/07/2001 5:24:37 AM PST by D2BAH
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To: spycatcher
Bump
49 posted on 12/07/2001 5:33:21 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: hinckley buzzard
It is a better thing to cultivate wonder at the mysteries of the real world, rather than to besot the imagination with idle fantasies...

That's right, because there is no use imagining what Troy was like. And heaven knows that Hissilick where Dergfeld (sp?) and Schliemann dug could not be Troy, because there was no mention of Troy before Homer and Homer just made all that wacky stuff up to sell books and make money. It was like a Spielberg production.

Might as well toss Herodotus and Thucydides out as sources too. I mean what over active imaginations? No one wrote about some fabled Persian invasion of Greece before... and mice eating the Persian bowstrings? Man, it's all fantasy. We should just focus on what's on now. Where's the remote control?

50 posted on 12/07/2001 5:37:37 AM PST by valhallasone
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