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VANITY - Interesting article for Kennedy conspiracy buffs
A site I found while surfing ^ | N/A | Brian Downing Quig

Posted on 12/11/2001 2:43:05 PM PST by Bill Rice

....At the time Col. Prouty retired from the U.S. Air Force, in 1964, he was the liaison between the Secretary of Defence and the CIA Director, Allen Dulles. Prouty was in a unique position to perceive what was going on in the CIA and what pressures were on President Kennedy. On frequent occasions, Prouty would work out of the home of Secretary of State John Foster Dulles with the Dulles brothers on fast breaking world affairs. Allen Dulles was the CIA Director that John Kennedy fired after the Bay of Pigs fiasco who sat on the WARREN COMMISSION. All knowledgeable researchers place the Dulles brothers within the circle of the conspirators.

If we only knew then, what we do now, it would have been easy to identify the other conspirators. Lyndon Johnson lived across the street from J. Edger Hoover for 22 years in Washington D.C. Johnson was associated with Jack Ruby in Dallas. Hoover attended the meeting at the Clint Murcheson ranch, along with Richard Nixon and high ranking military, where the last minute details of the assassination were worked out. Richard Nixon first told the FBI he did not remember where he was when JFK was murdered. Then he said he was in Dallas but flew out an hour before the shooting. He lied. Executives at the PEPSICO meeting attended by Nixon related that not only was Nixon there when the shooting happened but Nixon was the only person who wanted to go on working after the shocking news of the President's death.

At the street level below these conspirators we find the CIA Bay of Pigs operatives Frank Sturgus, Jack Youngblood and E. Howard Hunt being photographed in the famous "tramp photos". These three suspects were arrested in a boxcar which was parked behind the grassy knoll picket fence over which the fatal shot was fired. These 3 assassins were released after 15 minutes by the FBI without being finger printed, photographed or identified and were last seen leaving Dallas in a police squad car. As a litmus test, any documentary which omits these photos is probably a fraud. These photos have never been shown by the mass media to the American public.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: jfk; jfkdallaslho
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This guy cites several authors, and postures some interesting ideas.

I didn't post the entire article, as it was pretty big. I found this while surfing for info on Sam Giancana getting rubbed out, and thought many of you would find it interesting.

1 posted on 12/11/2001 2:43:05 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice
"These 3 assassins were released after 15 minutes by the FBI without being finger printed, photographed or identified and were last seen leaving Dallas in a police squad car."

They had the "Right I.D." that got them cut loose. I'd give good odds that the actual shooters were military ;-)

2 posted on 12/11/2001 2:57:02 PM PST by rdavis84
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To: Bill Rice
Recognize anyone? The photo is from a 1963 Mexico City New Year's celebration, following the two previously unsuccessful attempts on JFK, after which the Dallas team was given the go-ahead.


3 posted on 12/11/2001 2:58:56 PM PST by archy
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To: Bill Rice
Go here for The Academic JFK Assassination Website. Really good info.

Anyone else have some good JFK websites to go to? even ones attempting to debunk conspiracy theorists/supporting the Warren Commission would be nice.

4 posted on 12/11/2001 3:10:57 PM PST by GreatOne
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To: Bill Rice
BEEEEEP!!! Wrong!

The three tramps names were Harold Doyle, Gus Abrams and John Forrester Gedney. They were fingerprinted and the arrest report is on file at the Dallas Police Department. Gees, do some research before you spout out nonsense.

5 posted on 12/11/2001 3:12:09 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: rdavis84
That book I mentioned, "Double Cross" - It claims one of the shooters was the father of Woody Harrelson!

While this may sound farfetched at first, Woody Harrelson's father WAS a hitman, and is currently serving a life sentence for murdering a federal judge with a high powered rifle.

Hmmmm... I'll bet THAT helped Woody Harrelson along in his career, since the mob has always controlled Hollywood.

BTW - That book is about Sam Giancana and the mob. There's lots of Kennedy dirt in it, but it doesn't get to the assasination of Marilyn Monroe or the Kennedy bros until towards the end. Good stuff!

6 posted on 12/11/2001 3:15:29 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice
attended the meeting at the Clint Murcheson ranch

And the Dallas Cowboys owner had his team play football the Sunday after the assassination. That's all the evidence I need.

7 posted on 12/11/2001 3:25:24 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: Shooter 2.5
"The three tramps names were Harold Doyle, Gus Abrams and John Forrester Gedney. They were fingerprinted and the arrest report is on file at the Dallas Police Department.

So you buy what the Dallas Police Dept. says about it? I don't. They're the folks who LET Ruby kill Oswald. The one guy looks too much like Hunt:

There's another shot that I can't find, where Hunt is wearing a listening device in his ear.

8 posted on 12/11/2001 3:27:07 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice
It a matter of public record. The article that had the names was the Texas Monthly magazine.
Listening device? LOL.
9 posted on 12/11/2001 3:32:34 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: GreatOne
"Anyone else have some good JFK websites to go to?"

The Kennedy Assassination Homepage

And my favorite article (It's in PDF format) that documents retouched Zappruder pictures in magazines before and after the Warren Report is Dallas Conspiracy by Nord Davis

10 posted on 12/11/2001 3:39:16 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice
OOPS - That should be "documents retouched Zappruder pictures in magazines after the Warren Report."

It shows the pictures BEFORE the report as well, and tells what magazines to go check out at the library to see for yourself.

11 posted on 12/11/2001 3:42:54 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice
Bill, if you get into it with Shooter, mlo and Fred, you're gonna be here for days, maybe weeks! lol

Tulsa Man Discovers What May Be Assassin's Spy Camera
EXCLUSIVE - ONLY ON NEWSCHANNEL 8
UPDATED - November 14, 2001 4:03pm

Tulsa - An exclusive investigation that's been more than a year in the making may be hard to believe. A Tulsa man discovered a spy camera taped to the back of a dresser, but there's more. That spy camera may have belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald. The man shared his story only with NewsChannel 8's Jerry Giordano.

Joe San Miguel may have stumbled across a missing piece of American history -- a Minox spy camera, circa 1963.

"When we checked it out on the internet, it was like 'Wow! Oswald had one of these.'"

Joe is referring to Lee Harvey Oswald, assassin of President John F. Kennedy. In Dallas in 1963, some records indicate police removed a camera exactly like it from Oswald's possessions. Problem is, it somehow disappeared and has never been seen since. Perhaps, until now.

How did Joe find the camera? It was taped to the back of a dresser drawer bought at a Salvation Army store in Dallas. "I was pulling out drawers to match socks is all I was doing", he said. "There was so much dust like it had never been moved. You could literally see the dust."

But did that camera actually belong to Lee Harvey Oswald, and if it did, exactly what, if anything, is on the film. We went with Joe and his uncle to find out.

But finding a place to develop film this old on this type of camera wasn't easy. The closest place, ironically, is where it all began, in Dallas. It's a five-hour trip and with each passing mile, Joe wonders whether what is on the film could change the course of history.

"I don't want to be famous. But, if there's a story behind it, Oliver Stone could make a movie out of this. And if we could prove the crime, that's the main thing."

And the next afternoon, we took the camera and the film to Expert Imaging for what's certain to be a painstaking developing process. But Joe's entourage suddenly got bigger. He hired a high-powered Boston attorney to protect his rights and his property. A film expert from Kodak was also brought in for the process.

But, even those who do this for a living aren't optimistic about finding anything that could survive this test of time. "It requires a lot of TLC if you will, because film this old is gonna suffer the effects of age, heat, moisture variability. The result could be a very brittle film that could be easily damaged."

Bottom line -- damaged film means no pictures, not to mention no proof of who the camera actually belonged to.

It's a long and nerve bending process, attempting to develop pictures taken nearly four decades ago. But, amazingly, some images did survive. Joe is ecstatic.

"Definite images of kids, people, a picture of a woman with a house in back. We're hoping to use addresses off houses to id people. It's exciting."

But, exactly who those people are and how they may relate to Lee Harvey Oswald is a question that is still being investigated. San Miguel's attorney and his mother-in-law are both in Louisiana to meet with relatives of Lee Harvey Oswald, trying to confirm who is in those pictures. They've also met with Oswald's widow, Marina to show her what they found.

Both Joe and his attorney are very confident that the camera did indeed belong to Lee Harvey Oswald. The pictures are being copyrighted and we're not allowed to show you them yet. KTUL management was able to get a glimpse of the pictures and the images are obviously very old, in black and white, showing a number of different people and locations.

Now that we have seen the pictures, we can begin to help San Miguel investigate who those people are. We'll bring you the latest on the investigation as it becomes available.

12 posted on 12/11/2001 3:43:06 PM PST by top of the world ma
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To: archy
Can you list their names? Looks like one I want to read!
13 posted on 12/11/2001 3:44:15 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Senator Pardek; metalbird1
bmp
14 posted on 12/11/2001 3:44:33 PM PST by Askel5
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To: GreatOne
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Issues_and_evidence/Single-Bullet_theory/Pristine_bullet/Pristine_bullet.html

Cut and paste

15 posted on 12/11/2001 3:46:40 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: archy
Thanks for that plug for BARRY AND THE BOYS, a book I was unaware of, amazingly. It's been out for a year and this is the first I've heard of it. Just downloaded the 25 page first chapter which the official website allows you to do.
16 posted on 12/11/2001 3:55:29 PM PST by willyboyishere
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To: top of the world ma; Clovis_Skeptic
What an interesting post. Where is this station that did this report? Has anything else been released?
17 posted on 12/11/2001 3:56:11 PM PST by ladyinred
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To: ladyinred
Just realized it says Tulsa man at the top of the report, so I assume the report is from Tulsa. Sorry, I missed that in the first reading. However, still curious about any followups to that story.
18 posted on 12/11/2001 3:59:07 PM PST by ladyinred
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To: Askel5; ThanksBTTT
Can you name anyone in that photo?
19 posted on 12/11/2001 4:06:04 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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To: Bill Rice
Can you list their names? Looks like one I want to read!

A few. But the interesting one is the third from the front, on the left row. That's Adler Berriman Seal, better known as Barry Seal, of Baton Rouge, LA and Mena, AR drug smuggling infamy.

Hey! Who's that guy in the suit, with the white hanky in his pocket, behind the third *tramp?*


20 posted on 12/11/2001 4:06:46 PM PST by archy
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To: archy
So who IS the guy with the white hanky in his pocket?
This is interesting, but it's no fun guessing.
21 posted on 12/11/2001 4:12:41 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice
Tourist guy maybe?
22 posted on 12/11/2001 4:14:02 PM PST by jedi150
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To: ladyinred
Lawyers Visiting Oswald Family To Verify Authenticity of Spy Camera
EXCLUSIVE - ONLY ON NEWSCHANNEL 8
November 14, 2001 9:40pm

Tulsa Man Discovers What May Be Assassin's Spy Camera

Tulsa (AP) - Did a Tulsa man find a spy camera that once belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald? We have a follow-up to Tuesday night's special investigation. Joe San Miguel believes he did and he may have the pictures to prove it. NewsChannel 8 spoke to San Miguel again earlier this week. Investigators are still in New Orleans meeting with cousins of Lee Harvey Oswald. But, it looks more and more like the camera did belong to the infamous presidential assassin.

It's been more than a year and Joe San Miguel is still waiting -- waiting to see if the Minox spy camera actually belonged to Oswald.

"If we can verify it, or even if we can't, it's still coming to a boil," he says. "It's pretty exciting."

And it's been a long road. Joe discovered the spy camera taped to the back of a dresser drawer bought at a Salvation Army store in Dallas. And Dallas is where the mystery began.

Lee Harvey Oswald shot and killed President John F. Kennedy in 1963. That's the same year scratched on the film. Also, police records show a camera exactly like it was removed from Oswald's belongings, but somehow disappeared.

San Miguel traveled back to Dallas to have those pictures developed and we were there. The images were old, in black and white and seemed to show various people. But who are they and who might know?

"We got to meet Marina Oswald. I don't know if that's her name now, Lee's widow, and that was real exciting to talk to her for probably a couple of hours," Joe said. "She was surprised."

The pictures are in the process of being copyrighted and once that process is complete, we hope to be able to show them to you.

===========================================

Nothing further on this so far, as far as I know. Det. Gus Rose of the DPD did discover a MINOX spy camera in Oswald's seabag in the Paine's garage on the afternoon of the assassination, but it disappeared from the evidence. Det. Rose testified there was film in the camera.

This could be just a hoax or it could be Oswalds camera. A MINOX doesn't mean Oswald assassinated JFK, but it does have implications wrt to whether or not he was involved in intelligence.

23 posted on 12/11/2001 4:16:19 PM PST by top of the world ma
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To: archy
I went surfing for "Barry & the the boys". They have an official website for the book
24 posted on 12/11/2001 4:16:21 PM PST by Bill Rice
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To: Bill Rice

25 posted on 12/11/2001 4:18:55 PM PST by archy
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To: Bill Rice
BUMP
26 posted on 12/11/2001 4:19:48 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Bill Rice
Geezus, guys, break out the foil pisscutters and give it up.

Lee Harvey did it his ownself....plain, simple, and closed book.

As Bill Clinton has been known to say, "put some ice on it, and move on...."

27 posted on 12/11/2001 4:22:41 PM PST by ErnBatavia
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To: Bill Rice
So you buy what the Dallas Police Dept. says about it?

If you simply refuse to accept valid evidence on one hand, and fully credit rumor and nonsense on the other, how do you expect to know the truth? You can prove anything with those methods.

28 posted on 12/11/2001 4:24:02 PM PST by mlo
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To: ErnBatavia
I myself have never believed in the whole conspiracy thing too much, except when it comes to this. I just don't buy a guy with a gun like that making shots like he did through trees. Nobody is THAT good. Of course, I'm more interested in the why than the how of the whole thing
29 posted on 12/11/2001 4:25:24 PM PST by billbears
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To: Bill Rice
mafia princess......i read that one.......
30 posted on 12/11/2001 4:27:36 PM PST by angcat
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To: top of the world ma
Michael Paine owned a Minox. It was Paine's garage in which Oswald had his stuff. The police took Paine's Minox.

I don't know what is up with this camera they supposedly found. The story says they got pictures, but are in the process of being copyrighted. But that is nonsense. There is no process. You just put a copyright mark on it, and optionaly file it with the copyright office.

31 posted on 12/11/2001 4:30:25 PM PST by mlo
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To: billbears
Only the first shot may have had a tree in the way, and it missed. The other two were clear shots.
32 posted on 12/11/2001 4:34:56 PM PST by mlo
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To: top of the world ma
Nothing further on this so far, as far as I know. Det. Gus Rose of the DPD did discover a MINOX spy camera in Oswald's seabag in the Paine's garage on the afternoon of the assassination, but it disappeared from the evidence. Det. Rose testified there was film in the camera.

This could be just a hoax or it could be Oswalds camera. A MINOX doesn't mean Oswald assassinated JFK, but it does have implications wrt to whether or not he was involved in intelligence.

More on Oswald's Minox and the FBI's demand that Gus Rose delete the camera from the list of property siezed from Oswald and purjure his sworn report *here* There's no doubt that the FBI was covering up certain details in the aftermath of the investigatrion; the question is whether it was FBI complicity or ineptitude that Director Hoover so desperately needed to keep hidden. But the FBI was hardly the agency with the most to lose, and none of their men in Dallas were reported killed on 22 November 1963....

-archy-/-

33 posted on 12/11/2001 4:35:25 PM PST by archy
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To: archy
The third guy is Howard Hunt. No doubt about it. I think that the second guy is Frank Sturgis. I don't know who the first guy is, but I bet that he's French.

Look at the upturned collar of his Izod shirt. Izod is a French company ("Chemise LaCoste"). Izods weren't popular in this country in 1964, especially in Dallas, especially among hobos. And an upturned collar! That wasn't the style in this country until the 70's and then just among a certain "in" crowd. No, that guy's French. And he really doesn't care who knows it because he thinks that he is "bulletproof."
34 posted on 12/11/2001 4:39:00 PM PST by Iwo Jima
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To: ErnBatavia
"Lee Harvey did it his ownself....plain, simple, and closed book."

And just how do you know that, again?

35 posted on 12/11/2001 4:45:45 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: mlo
Long time, no see, mlo! (BG) Where's Fred?

The FBI knew they had a prob with that camera. They came back later and asked the Paine's about a MINOX camera. He had one soaking in a coffee can in kerosine because he had dropped it in salt water and thought it was ruined. They took that camera and substituted it for Oswald's camera. The FBI tried to get Rose to change his testimony that he found a light meter, not a camera, but he wouldn't do it. He found the camera in Oswald's SEABAG not a coffee can. He remembered it because he associated his finding of the camera with one of the backyard photos of Oswald holding the rifle in the SEABAG.

I said this finding may be a hoax, didn't I?

The camera in the National Archives may be Michael's camera. They can't get it open to check the serial # against the one in the coffee can which serial # was recorded. However, Michael said on the Frontline program, that he got his camera back from the FBI and it was subsequently stolen from his workplace. How convenient! So we don't know what MINOX camera is in the Archives. But it's been examined by researchers and Gus Rose's initials aren't on it. He testified he and his partner, Stovall, I think his name was, marked it. Paine got back a light meter, too. It was stolen, too. If it was a light meter that Rose found, what would the Paine's lightmeter be doing in Oswald's SEABAG???

36 posted on 12/11/2001 4:47:26 PM PST by top of the world ma
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To: Iwo Jima

37 posted on 12/11/2001 4:48:57 PM PST by archy
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To: archy
Question. Which one are you identifying as Barry Seal?
In the book Coup D'Etat in America by Alan J. Eberman & Michael Canfield (which I bought in a "remainder" bin some time ago and don't know how reliable it is), the authors identify the "three tramps" as, from left to right in the picture you posted:
1) "Sometimes referred to as 'Raoul', 'Frenchy' or 'Dan Carswell' "
2) The tall one -- Frank Sturgis
3) Tramp in hat -- E. Howard Hunt
38 posted on 12/11/2001 4:52:01 PM PST by Marianne
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To: archy
That just goes to show that given any low definition photo you can find someone else with similar facial types. They aren't identical though. Look close and you can see that all those are different people.

The 3 tramps are a dead issue. It has been since the HSCA. See here

39 posted on 12/11/2001 4:54:51 PM PST by mlo
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To: Marianne
No. 1 has been called "Frenchy?!" Aha! See my post # 34.
40 posted on 12/11/2001 4:56:52 PM PST by Iwo Jima
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To: top of the world ma; Fred25
Long time, no see, mlo! (BG) Where's Fred?

I have no idea. I just now noticed this thread while surfing FR. I'll ping him for you.

41 posted on 12/11/2001 4:57:46 PM PST by mlo
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To: mlo
If that does turn out to be Oswald's camera, it was taped there by one of Dallas's finest, not Oswald. /sarcasm

Don't forget one of the BY photos was found in Roscoe White's belongings after he died. If the DPD was willing to secret *that* evidence, what else did they secret, hmmm???

If the FIB was willing to deny evidence found in the Waco massacre, don't you think it's possible they played with evidence in a presidential assassination to assure the public that the right perp had been captured and murdered in custody and that no one else was at large?

42 posted on 12/11/2001 5:00:51 PM PST by top of the world ma
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To: mlo
Look like I said I'm not that much into the conspiracy thing, but even you would have to admit that the odds of making that shot(3 times even) and making it with the accuracy that he supposedly made it with(forgetting all the other things) would be astronomical. And I don't care what kind of training he had
43 posted on 12/11/2001 5:05:39 PM PST by billbears
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To: billbears
Ooh, here we go again. A Boy Scout could make that shot. And the FBI,CBS and the NRA all duplicated those shots. Do some research.
44 posted on 12/11/2001 5:09:57 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: ErnBatavia
I think the tin hat cuts off circulation.
45 posted on 12/11/2001 5:12:10 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: billbears
Look like I said I'm not that much into the conspiracy thing, but even you would have to admit that the odds of making that shot(3 times even) and making it with the accuracy that he supposedly made it with(forgetting all the other things) would be astronomical. And I don't care what kind of training he had.

No, I wouldn't say that at all. They were not hard shots, and he missed one of them completely. Shooter is trying to tell you they were easy shots. He knows. The most common reaction from people that visit the 6th floor and look out that window is suprise at how much closer it is than they thought and how easy the shots would be.

46 posted on 12/11/2001 5:14:10 PM PST by mlo
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To: Shooter 2.5
I think the tin hat cuts off circulation.

That's why aluminum foil beanies are a more functional choice, if not more stylish.

47 posted on 12/11/2001 5:15:36 PM PST by mlo
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: mlo
Re: Reply #39
Interesting link. Thanks for posting.
49 posted on 12/11/2001 5:18:58 PM PST by Marianne
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To: mlo
Hey MLO! How is everything?

Looks like the liars club is out tonight.

50 posted on 12/11/2001 5:19:37 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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