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Medical dictionaries redefine "CONCEPTION" to obscure the TRUTH regarding contraceptive technologies
Online Medical Dictionaries | 12/12/01 | Dr. Brian Kopp

Posted on 12/11/2001 8:57:01 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp

The redifining of "conception" by medicine in new medical dictionaries: Verbal engineering always preceeds social (and medical)engineering

There are several major print medical dictionaries, and several online versions. Apparently, under pressure from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), many of them have changed the defintion of "conception" in the last few years, proving once again that verbal engineering always preceeds social (and medical) engineering.

Here is Tabor's Medical Dictionary's entry:

conception (kSn-s&p´shTn)
1. The mental process of forming an idea. 2. The onset of pregnancy marked by implantation of a fertilized ovum in the uterine wall. SEE: contraception; fertilization; implantation.
Copyright 2001 by F. A. Davis Company

Here is the entry from "On-line Medical Dictionary":

conception
The onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst, the formation of a viable zygote. Origin: L. Conceptio

However, Merriam Webster's Medical Dictionary sits on the fence:

Main Entry: con·cep·tion
Pronunciation: k&n-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
1 a : the process of becoming pregnant involving fertilization or implantation or both b : EMBRYO, : FETUS 2 a : the capacity, function, or process of forming or understanding ideas or abstractions or their symbols b : a general idea

Yet the good old "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition," Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company, is much more straightforward:

con·cep·tion (kn-spshn)
n.
Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization. The entity formed by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; an embryo or zygote. The ability to form or understand mental concepts and abstractions. Something conceived in the mind; a concept, plan, design, idea, or thought. See Synonyms at idea. Archaic. A beginning; a start. [Middle English concepcioun, from Old French conception, from Latin concepti, conceptin-, from conceptus. See concept.]

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc., does not mince words either:

conception \Con*cep"tion\, n. [F. conception, L. conceptio, fr. concipere to conceive. See Conceive.] 1. The act of conceiving in the womb; the initiation of an embryonic animal life.[remaider of definitions deleted]

WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University puts it succinctly:

conception n 1: an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances [syn: concept, construct] [ant: misconception] 2: the act of becoming pregnant; fertilization of an ovum by a spermatozoon 3: the event that occured at the beginning of something; "from its creation the plan was doomed to failure" [syn: creation] 4: the creation of something in the mind [syn: invention, innovation, excogitation, design]

I wonder how these medical dictionaries define a tubal pregnancy, if "conception" does not occur till after implantation of a fertilized ovum in the uterine wall?

I wonder why the "medical" definition of "conception" has been quietly changed?

No need to wonder, really. All the latest contraceptive technologies target the baby at its most vulnerable point, i.e., before implantation but after conception (as traditionally defined.)

If "conception" is not redefined, medicine must admit that these new technologies are indeed abortifacient. Then comes the whole problem of informed consent, conscience clauses, and a refocus of pro-life activity exactly where medicine does NOT want it: At that distinct line between conception and implantation, a line already crossed by hormonal contraception, the morning after pill, Norplant, Depo-Provera, IUD's, cloning, stem cell research, and many other emerging technologies.

Here lies the future of the pro-life battle, or its failure, if none show up to do battle.

AMA VOTES AGAINST LETTING WOMEN KNOW "THE PILL" IS ABORTIFACIENT

Culture/Society
Source: CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS
Published: Dec 10, 01 Author: CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS
Posted on 12/11/01 12:17 AM Eastern by proud2bRC

AMA Votes Against Letting Women Know "The Pill" Is Abortifacient
WASHINGTON, DC, Dec 10, 01 (LSN.ca/CWNews.com) - The American Medical Association last week voted overwhelmingly against a proposal to inform women about the potential for birth control pills to cause the abortion of an embryo by preventing implantation in the uterus.

Cybercast News Service reports that Dr. John C. Nelson, a member of the AMA's executive committee and a self-described conservative, said the Alabama doctor who put forward the proposal before the AMA "believes that in the spirit of enhancing the patient/physician relationship, that information ought to be disclosed to patients to help them make choices." Nelson said, "I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what the AMA is about. It's a cornerstone of American medicine."

However, according to Nelson, the proposal was voted down because "many people from the American Society of Reproductive Medicine... decided that they would testify, and their testimony was that there is not sufficient scientific evidence to suggest" that birth control substances can induce abortions. Walter Weber, senior litigation counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a Virginia-based public interest law firm, reacted to the vote saying, "If [pro-life women] are using a method that can operate after fertilization as well as before fertilization, and they don't know it, they are basically being deceived by lack of information into violating their own consciences."

The Family Research Council (FRC) condemned the attempt to conceal the truth from women. FRC Advisory Board Member John Diggs, MD, said Friday, "The AMA is doing a great disservice to women by refusing to fully inform them of their birth control options. Since informed consent is a basic medical ethic, it should be standard operating procedure to tell women that the birth control pill can cause an abortion. Each woman has the right to know what's good for her health and acceptable to her conscience. If the AMA has suppressed its conscience, it shouldn't draw American women into its own ethical lapses."

FRC noted that the prescribing information for Ortho Tri-Cyclen, a popular oral contraceptive, enumerates three pathways by which the pill works: suppressing ovulation, preventing fertilization, and precluding the implantation of an already fertilized egg. The third one constitutes an abortion. The third function is conspicuously excluded from information made available to patients. "If manufacturers are telling doctors that oral contraceptives can keep a new member of the human family from being nourished, why isn't that information being passed on to patients?", asked Diggs.

Nelson noted that lobbying by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine largely contributed to the AMA's decision.

====================================================

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Catholic World News (c) Copyright Domus Enterprises 2001.



Archives of Family Medicine, Vol. 9 No. 2, February 2000, "Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent," Walter L. Larimore, MD; Joseph B. Stanford, MD, MSPH

ABSTRACT:

The primary mechanism of oral contraceptives is to inhibit ovulation, but this mechanism is not always operative. When breakthrough ovulation occurs, then secondary mechanisms operate to prevent clinically recognized pregnancy. These secondary mechanisms may occur either before or after fertilization. Postfertilization effects would be problematic for some patients, who may desire information about this possibility. This article evaluates the available evidence for the postfertilization effects of oral contraceptives and concludes that good evidence exists to support the hypothesis that the effectiveness of oral contraceptives depends to some degree on postfertilization effects. [in other words, early chemical abortions--proud2brc] However, there are insufficient data to quantitate the relative contribution of postfertilization effects. Despite the lack of quantitative data, the principles of informed consent suggest that patients who may object to any postfertilization loss should be made aware of this information so that they can give fully informed consent for the use of oral contraceptives.<


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I have briefly collected several new definitions here from medical dictionaries online. If you know of further examples of this redefining of "conception" in either medical or regular dictionaries, please post them here for a planned article on this subject. Thanks, Dr. Kopp (proud2brc)
1 posted on 12/11/2001 8:57:01 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: proud2bRC; victim soul; *Abortion_list; *Pro_life; toenail; patent
Bump
2 posted on 12/11/2001 9:00:51 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: proud2bRC
Compare to another thread.
3 posted on 12/11/2001 9:13:06 PM PST by toenail
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To: *Catholic_list; *Christian_list; *Abortion_list; *Pro_life; patent; Notwithstanding; JMJ333...
Just fyi
4 posted on 12/11/2001 9:17:33 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: toenail
Thanks.
5 posted on 12/11/2001 9:28:43 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: proud2bRC
AFAIK this has always been the proper medical definition, as opposed to the "sperm+egg" of popular imagination. FYI I read an interesting article in The Economist last week that says a number of interested groups are moving towards the idea of "life" beginning at the moment of "Quickenning", ie when the mother first beings to feel the babies movements in-utero, and this has precedent in the original Christian view of when life began. Thoughts?
6 posted on 12/11/2001 9:31:29 PM PST by Blunderfromdownunder
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To: proud2bRC
Sperm + egg = fertilization

Fertilized egg + uterus implantation = conception of human life

Fertilized egg + menstruation = try again next month

A fertilized egg cannot become human unless it is implanted in the womb, period. Active women, even in marriages, probably expel dozens of fertilized eggs throughout their lives as part of the natural processes of their bodies.

7 posted on 12/11/2001 9:38:39 PM PST by Njal
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To: proud2bRC
I object to the term "viable" (or any other adjective for that matter) being used in any definition of conception. Viability of a fetus at the moment of conception is "yet to be determined." This is affirming the consequent.

You see, this is we'll be homeschooling our children.

8 posted on 12/11/2001 10:10:13 PM PST by Verax
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To: proud2bRC
I saved copies of the Federal Register entries on the redefining of fetus (at the pre-implantation stage) which neatly coincided -- almost collided -- with the NIH's withdrawing its guideline language re: "human embryos". Guess we can thank President Bush for forcing the moving finger of Science to hold the knot they're tying with a spanking new Term.

I'll try to remember to lob them in here.

Seems the He/She Inhuman have all things "Non-Person" nailed down tight. Along with the blood and guts of Constitutional Abortion, fleshing out at the microscopic level the ritual deicide ongoing as we chunks of measurably Self-Conscious matter evolve toward our hopeful, ... uh, for want of a better word ... humanitarian Utopia.

9 posted on 12/11/2001 11:18:58 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Njal
Active women, even in marriages, probably expel dozens of fertilized eggs throughout their lives as part of the natural processes of their bodies.

That is what's known as a NATURAL death ... the sort to which all human beings (barring the most extreme punishment of all) are entitled.

10 posted on 12/11/2001 11:22:58 PM PST by Askel5
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To: proud2bRC; Verax
I don't think it gets anymore educated or scientific than premeire geneticist Doctor Jérôme Lejeune of Paris ... who, among other triumphs in his MORAL research, discovered Down Syndrome. He's an excellent subject for a study of a moral scientist at work to better mankind without sacricing for a moment his integrity or convictions regarding human dignity.

The "no" to life,
which the use of contraceptives cries out

by its very name

Q:           Once fertilization, once conception has occurred, could you tell the Court, anything added after the point? Does Peter or Margaret come into being, so to speak, through additional information?

A:           Well, that was a very interesting discovery of modem science. Because for a long time it has been believed that the mother, the feeling of the mother, could do something to the baby. . . . [but] we know now that everything is written inside the first cell.

I have to come back to this concept of conception, because it is a very remarkable fact that in all the languages coming from Latin, we use the same word either to express an idea which comes into our mind, or to a new being coming into life.

We conceive an idea. We conceive a baby. A baby is conceived. Conception applies just as well for defining what will animate matter in a human nature or what will animate your mind within your idea.

And that is, so to speak, an extraordinary description of reality which is at the very beginning the information and the matter, so to speak:

the spirit and the body are so intimately interwoven that we use the same word to say spirit animated by your ideas, or life of a new human being animated by genetic property-conception.

Doctor Jérôme Lejeune, R.I.P.

From Natural Family Planning (by Askel5)


11 posted on 12/11/2001 11:29:12 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Njal
"Sperm + egg = fertilization"

So far, so good.

"Fertilized egg + uterus implantation = conception of human life"

No...... Fertilization and conception are the same thing.

"Fertilized egg + menstruation = try again next month."

There is no such thing as a "fertilized egg." And this is a spontaneous miscarriage.

"A fertilized egg cannot become human unless it is implanted in the womb, period. Active women, even in marriages, probably expel dozens of fertilized eggs throughout their lives as part of the natural processes of their bodies."

There is no such thing as a "fertilized egg." Human beings begin at conception, and are as genetically complete as they'll ever be. Your humanity is established whether you get your nourishment from your mother's uterine wall, or from a #4 at McDonald's.

12 posted on 12/11/2001 11:54:32 PM PST by toenail
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To: toenail; Cultural Jihad; homeschool mama; KentuckyWoman; Brad's Gramma; MissouriRepublican...
I agree 100%. Life begins at conception. It is there that the unique DNA is first formed; it is there that the developmental life cycle begins. Not before, not after. Sperm+egg = new human life. This is genetic science and objective reality, unclouded by feminist, secular humanist, moral relativist subjectivity.
13 posted on 12/12/2001 12:58:21 AM PST by Dr. Octagon
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To: Dr. Octagon
you are missing the point; the issue is one of semantics ie whether the popular conception of conception (aheh heh) ie egg+sperm=conception is correct. Medically speaking, it appears not to be.

Perhaps the proper slogan should be "Life begins at fertilisation!"
14 posted on 12/12/2001 1:01:56 AM PST by Blunderfromdownunder
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
I won't surrender the term "conception" that easily. Words have power; I don't work for the authors of politically correct medical dictionaries.
15 posted on 12/12/2001 1:09:25 AM PST by Dr. Octagon
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
Thoughts?

Yes.

Life begins at conception.

16 posted on 12/12/2001 4:11:51 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: Njal
Another victim of verbal engineering, even here on Free Republic. All the greater the loss.
17 posted on 12/12/2001 4:12:59 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: Askel5
Don't be so hard on the prez...we know that he gave us a victory on the stem cell issue. After all, those stem cell lines are duplicates of the original source and that means they really aren't what they are--and justifies publically funding research on these fake lines. I understand completely that this isn't subtle encouragment to the private sector.

I wonder if that lab in Mass. that cloned a human being could qualify for federal aid? I can just see the press conference: "We're not going to fund research on new clones--but the ones that have already been cloned..."

If they harvest the clone for its stem cells, then duplicate the line, you will have the same justification that the republicans used the first time. No wonder the Pope said there are dark times ahead.

18 posted on 12/12/2001 5:57:44 AM PST by JMJ333
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To: proud2bRC
Thanks for the ping!
19 posted on 12/12/2001 5:59:15 AM PST by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
we know that he gave us a victory on the stem cell issue

What's this "we" business, white man? =)

The current issue of Human Life Review has some excellent articles on the subject. I may post a potpourri of highlights.

At least as disturbing, if not more, are the inroads made toward offing the "living" and scrapping them for parts upon "brain death".

Speaking of definitions, I hadn't realized that food and water now had become a legal term of art known as "ANH" or artificial nutrition and hydration.

I suppose this bit of semantics (and the almighty Economic Burden, of course) is why Sinkspur argues that a feeding tube is an "extraordinary" measure next of kin need not feel morally obligated to take where the dying, comatose or failing are concerned.

God forbid we have the true compassion that is "suffering with". Better our service to mankind take the form of legislation and conditioning necessary to liquidate those who might put the pinch on our pocketbooks or cast a pall on our Quality of Life.

20 posted on 12/12/2001 6:37:50 AM PST by Askel5
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To: proud2bRC
Abortion and the English Language

(Wherein I've posted the quotes to prove it's Bush who gave the Dems their talking points where "population control" as "healthcare mechanism".)

21 posted on 12/12/2001 6:44:27 AM PST by Askel5
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To: proud2bRC
1984 and Brave New World bump. Thanks for the ping.
22 posted on 12/12/2001 7:11:48 AM PST by Aunt Polgara
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
AFAIK this has always been the proper medical definition, as opposed to the "sperm+egg" of popular imagination.

While I have never been a med student, I always thought conception was when the sperm and egg joined. Pregnancy was defined to begin at implantation.

FYI I read an interesting article in The Economist last week that says a number of interested groups are moving towards the idea of "life" beginning at the moment of "Quickenning", ie when the mother first beings to feel the babies movements in-utero, and this has precedent in the original Christian view of when life began. Thoughts?

So that would mean that your humanity isn't based on something you are, but on whether your mother is able to feel you? I don't know that any Christian view ever held this. A human being is a human being because G-d made it so, not because another human being declared it so. You may be confusing the issue of when a woman could know she was pregnant before we had hormone-based blood tests. She could believe she was pregnant due to missed periods and morning sickness, but quickening was her proof.

Shalom.

23 posted on 12/12/2001 7:17:12 AM PST by ArGee
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To: Dr. Octagon
---"unclouded by feminist, secular humanist, moral relativist subjectivity"

Absolutely! with the secular humanists being the main culprits. After all, they are the ones who got the feminazi ball rolling along and are working to instill their brand of humanism into this Nation's school children as evidenced by the following two quotes:

"Every Child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill, because he comes to school with certain allegiances toward our founding fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural Being, toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you teachers to make all of these sick children well by creating the international children of the future."
Taken from an address given at a childhood education seminar in 1973 by Chester M. Pierce of educational psychiatry at Harvard University on behalf of the Association for Childhood Education International.

"The battle for humankind's future must be waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith. ....The classroom must and will become an arena of conflict between the old and the new--the rotting corpse of Christianity and the new faith of Humanism."
"A Religion for a New Age," The Humanist - January/February 1983, p. 26.

With religion, and ESPECIALLY Christianity (with all the inherent tenats of morality), being systematically removed from the minds of our children, the idea that things like abortion are merely "choices" are going to be easier to swallow in the future. Given time, people will no longer even remember why abortion was against the law of the land or why.

24 posted on 12/12/2001 7:27:58 AM PST by KentuckyWoman
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To: KentuckyWoman; Angelique; tame; Alamo-Girl; backhoe; Hugh Akston; Ragtime Cowgirl; LarryLied...
First, here's my disclaimer: I'm a 56 years old male.

Second, here's my problem: there is no Constitutional protection for abortion on demand (no Constitutional justification for sanctioning serial killing, thanks be to the founders' wisdom), BUT there is Constitutional justification for a woman to have the absolute right to choose not to get pregnant.

Third, here's a way to section this morass for reasoning it out: the choice to not get pregnant is a moral/religious/personal thing (if we're not dealing with rape), whereas serial killing is a societal issue and as such has been neglected in address by the gelatinous spined political sloths now too much in evidence in the Republican Party, and by the moral sloths inhabiting the churches, cathedrals, synagogues and mosques in America.

Catholics will want to skin me for the following, but so be it, it is time to be truthful and allow hearts to settle where they will.

The right of privacy misapplied by the leftist/liberal SCOTUS of 1973 does exist as far as the right to reject becoming pregnant, but to extend that notion to a right for serial slaughter of new individual human beings found alive and in their normal HUMAN condition for their age is, well, un-Constitutional. It also stinks of socialist societal engineering and political teratogenicity in the judiciary too fully influenced by the democrat leftists. If anyone doubts the vital importance of whom controls the White House and Senate, consider the left-leaning judges democrats desire infesting the federal court system!

Now, if my fellow freepers who are Catholic can step outside their religious skins for a moment, it would behoove all pro-life people to consider the first necessity in this war against serialized killing of the preborn to be LAW which protects the preborn, from implantation until the individual can thrive outside of a woman's body, for this is where the division between personal right to privacy and right to a lifetime already begun at implantation must be addressed. This is not to say that the individual lifetime didn't begin at conception, prior to implantation--those who know my past posting, know I firmly defend conception as the start of every individual lifetime. This is to say that our Constitution is not actually ambiguous regarding the right to life if we will select this scientifically definable phenomenon of life support begun at implantation upon which to focus, sans religious fervor ... unless someone wants to stand on the notion that the unborn are not individual lives started while in the United States of America or the progeny of American Citizen women, this point of implantation is the natural point for establishing citizenship of the preborn. Now, let the irrational and rational flaming begin. It is high time for clarity./

25 posted on 12/12/2001 9:46:14 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN
You are correct that the U. S. Constitution does not protect wholesale slaughter of the unborn (no matter what the 1973 Supreme Court suddenly discovered that no one had ever seen before...)

Problem is - for most any politician or supreme court nominee to come out opposed to this fiasco would be political suicide because every leftist organization from the ACLU to the NEA would fund and campaign for their opponents. Remember, a degenerate society is more likely to place their faith/trust in government than in some higher Being who will judge them on their actions at some point in time....

PS - how's the book coming??

26 posted on 12/12/2001 10:12:39 AM PST by KentuckyWoman
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To: MHGinTN
Big Ditto!!
27 posted on 12/12/2001 10:12:57 AM PST by ChaseR
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To: proud2bRC
I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I also like the unvarnished facts. Roe v Wade was written in January 1973 according to my quick check on the net. Here is the definition of conception from Stedman's Medical Dictionary 22nd Edition (1972):
1. Concept. 2. The act of forming a general idea or notion. 3. Successful implantation of the blastocyst in the uterine lining.

28 posted on 12/12/2001 10:15:46 AM PST by Gordian Blade
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To: proud2bRC; MHGinTN
I believe the AMA wants a political burqua on this because they do not want to be sued. Indeed, imagine this, a person who can use the pill but not abortion by belief would have been lied to by the pill industry about the effects of the pill and could sue. I am wondering what attorneys think about the validity of the argument of the AMA that is purely subjective axiom of life and non-medical.

There is a religious rational against abortion as well as a secular one.

Indeed the equal rights doctrine would mean that a feotus should not be the concern solely of the doctor and the mother, but of a court of law allowing the condemnation. After all justice is for those who cannot justify themselves, and the fetus is very much involved and in need of justice more than any other human creature.

Even a true socialist should be against abortion because social justice implies sharing of the pain and glorification of welfare life through umbilical chord.

A third argument should be the one of doctors as per Hypocrates' oath. One does not heal by killing, for how can cures even begin to be researched? If a woman is suffering from the medical and social implications of pregnancy, then a cure for those problems should be sought for sake of advancing medicine and social administrative solutions.

That is why I believe that those for abortion are closer to the extreme right's pragmatism than anything else IMHO.

29 posted on 12/12/2001 10:16:16 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: toenail
There is no such thing as a "fertilized egg."

I'm not sure if you're just arguing semantics here, or if you really believe that an egg doesn't become fertilized. If an egg combines with a sperm, this is called fertilization. When this happens, it is a "fertilized egg".

30 posted on 12/12/2001 10:22:14 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: MHGinTN
Thanks for the bump and the article
31 posted on 12/12/2001 10:23:09 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: realpatriot71
"I'm not sure if you're just arguing semantics here, or if you really believe that an egg doesn't become fertilized. If an egg combines with a sperm, this is called fertilization. When this happens, it is a "fertilized egg"."

"It" is a unicellular embryonic human. There is no more egg.

When Do Human Beings Begin? "Scientific" Myths and Scientific Facts Also, note O'Rahilly's statement that the use of terms such as "ovum" and "egg" — which would include the term "fertilized egg" — is scientifically incorrect, has no objective correlate in reality, and is therefore very misleading — especially in these present discussions. Thus these terms themselves would qualify as "scientific" myths. The commonly used term, "fertilized egg," is especially very misleading, since there is really no longer an egg (or oocyte) once fertilization has begun. What is being called a "fertilized egg" is not an egg of any sort; it is a human being.

32 posted on 12/12/2001 10:31:33 AM PST by toenail
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To: proud2bRC
Great article, Doctor. They seem to be using Orwell as a play-book.
33 posted on 12/12/2001 10:38:16 AM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: toenail
So it is an argument in semantics. Fertilized egg becomes a zygote, but not until the last mieotic division which happens after fertilization. So there is a fertilized egg before joining of the genetic material to form a zygote. Read some embryology, its facinating stuff.
34 posted on 12/12/2001 10:40:36 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: toenail
What is being called a "fertilized egg" is not an egg of any sort; it is a human being

How do you base your argument for calling a zygote a human being?

35 posted on 12/12/2001 10:42:19 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: toenail
#4 at McDonald's are the best...
36 posted on 12/12/2001 10:49:15 AM PST by Shift_Master
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To: realpatriot71
Science. Quite handy.

Does the link not work for you?

37 posted on 12/12/2001 10:54:18 AM PST by toenail
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To: toenail
Yes, it works.

:-)

38 posted on 12/12/2001 11:01:07 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: proud2bRC
I'll let you know what they're pushing in med school in the upcoming year. You're right about the move to define conception as implantation as being nothing more but a means of defining away pre-implantation abortion. Pretty soon they'll define "viable" as whatever happens to make it out of the womb alive--oops, looks as though they're already doing that. Rather, it doesn't make any difference that, pre- or post-implantation the blastocyst/embryo/fetus, is viable since they'll kill it with impunity anyway. It does give them a way of telling a woman who is balking for moral reasons that "Hey, see what it says here? This just prevents conception and you've already said you don't oppose conception."

Implantation is, at the most, only barely a stage of development, not the initiation of development, as is conception. The latter is an initiation of being (at least physically). The former is just a change (though necessary for continued development) in a state of being.
39 posted on 12/12/2001 11:09:02 AM PST by aruanan
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To: realpatriot71
On what do you base your specious assertion of 'fertilized egg' once the genetic expression of 46 chromosomes is realized in the first single cell known as zygote (different from the 23 from oocyte and the 23 different from spermatazoan)? Were you born an asshole, or did you matriculate to?
40 posted on 12/12/2001 11:10:18 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: Dr. Octagon
Dr. Octagon said: 'Life begins at conception. "

The sperm cell is alive. The egg prior to fertilization is alive. Life is a cycle. Like all cyclic processes, it can be somewhat arbitrary where they begin and end.

If life begins at conception, then perhaps it ends when the last offspring is conceived.

The joining of sperm and egg is the closest thing we have to an unambiguous event which can be used to distinguish between the period of time during which a given person exists and the time prior to their existence.

Trying to define a time later than the joining of sperm and egg (which was called "conception" when I took biology) is an exercise which probably cannot succeed.

Women are more affected by these issues than men. When women look past the self-serving aspects of this issue ( meaning birth control ) to examine things such as murder of a fetus and obligations for child support, progress will begin to be made.

The various factions are only about nine months apart in their thinking.

Human cloning makes it clear that a single skin cell can be used to create a human being every bit as deserving of protection as the person from whom the skin cell is derived.

If causing the needless death of a skin cell is not murder, then causing the needless death of a fertilized egg is perhaps not murder (religious views aside).

When, then, during the cloning process, does the skin cell become an individual deserving of protection?

41 posted on 12/12/2001 11:21:10 AM PST by William Tell
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To: MHGinTN
I caught the ad homenem attack loud and clear. You do relaize that is NOT a real argument, right? It's a fallacy, but I'll let that go.

Once the sperm penetrates the egg, the egg finishes it's final meiotic division. It is not until the final division occurs that genetic material from the sperm and egg meet and form a zygote. So, there is a time after penetration by sperm (otherwise known as fertilization), when the genetic materisll has not yet joined to form the zygote. During this time we have a fertilized egg. Try taking a class.

42 posted on 12/12/2001 11:24:37 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: Gordian Blade
I went back to look at the definition of conception in Stedman’s. In our office 1990 version it states that conception is “the act of conceiving or becoming pregnant; fertilization of the oocyte (ovum) by a spermatozoon.” However in their © 2000 version they note: “conception: act of conceiving: the implantation of the blastocyst in the endometrium.”

Why the discrepancy between yours and mine???

I like the facts too.

I wonder if you have fully disclosed the dates of publication of your dictionary, because such a definition simply did not exist within medicine in the early 70's.

43 posted on 12/12/2001 11:28:07 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: proud2bRC
This is a well-used copy that my wife has had on her shelf for almost 30 years. Wrote the date in it herself, 1972 as I said.
44 posted on 12/12/2001 11:31:28 AM PST by Gordian Blade
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To: Gordian Blade
I checked the printed copyright date just to be sure: 1972.
45 posted on 12/12/2001 11:34:47 AM PST by Gordian Blade
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To: proud2bRC; MHGinTN
BIG Texas BUMP!
46 posted on 12/12/2001 11:35:11 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: Gordian Blade
I'll go recheck my Stedman's, Tabors, and Dorlands, in case I have made a mistake (a possibility). Part of my research on this issue apparently is going to have to be collecting definitions from medical dictionaries over several decades.

Of course, the english language dictionaries are all unanimous.

But they have no agenda...yet...

47 posted on 12/12/2001 11:36:49 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: Gordian Blade
Thanks. Sorry for insinuating motives.
48 posted on 12/12/2001 11:37:44 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
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To: realpatriot71
Here's another. Gotta get me a RocketBook....
49 posted on 12/12/2001 11:43:52 AM PST by toenail
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To: realpatriot71
You are an insulting pissant trying to obfuscate the truth. You know what comes down the fallopian tube is a zygote, an individual life genetically different from the pserm or oocyte, yet you try to blur that truth. I have no respect for liars like you, liars that try to act condescending having not one inkling of the background of the one(s) they are purposely denegrating. You are the type of fecal floater I've been advised to flush rather than wrestle with.

For those interested in the facts of zygotic life, that which exits the fallopian tube and seeks implantation in the uterine lining is called a zygote then embryo (conception takes place in the fallopian tube, implantation--except in the life threatening case of a tubal pregnancy-- takes place in the uterus, the endometrial lining. After implantation the new individual life is known as a blastocyst and is drawing life support from the woman's body as soon as it can. Approximately eight weeks after conception then implantation (there can be as much as 14 days between the two events) the embryo is redefined as a fetus (Latin for child).

The term conception is used ambiguously, sometimes on purpose, taken to mean the process of fertilization and new expression of zygotic individual life and alternately taken to mean the result of successful implantation in the endometrial lining of the female uterus. Interestingly enough, the zygote actually initiates the seeking for life support following ingestion of uterine fluid ... the zygote literally invades the lining of the uterus. Once attached, life support is occurring for a new individual lifetime begun at union of sperm and egg (oocyte). From his comments, we may surmise Orrin Hatchling would conclude conception is the act of realized implantation; from my point of view, conception is the union of sperm and egg realized to express a new genetic individual life. From the perspective of 'real'patriot71 (I'll reserve on that designation just yet), it doesn't make any difference, as long as there is confusion and it can fan the obfuscatory flames to sustain that confusion. [Can you tell I don't particularly like the anal retentive types that want to create confusion? well I don't like them, anyway. I aslo don't like it when a dolt attacks my educated friends, like toenail or supercat.]

50 posted on 12/12/2001 11:46:57 AM PST by MHGinTN
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