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Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531
Catholic History | 12 12 2001 | Cap'n Crunch

Posted on 12/12/2001 7:21:41 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch

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To: Cap'n Crunch
At that time 8 million Mexicans and Aztec Indians converted to Catholicism. The human sacrifice to the pagan gods ceased.

Sadly the human sacrifices to the pagan Gods of Political Correctness and Self-serving Humanism have resumed. Worse statues to Quetzalcoatl are being erected in our Christian nation(s).

Pray to Our Lady. Pray for Faith, pray for our nation and for mankind.

301 posted on 12/11/2004 4:06:24 PM PST by ElkGroveDan
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To: Miss Marple
It appears to me to be a photograph of the image on the tilma. You can see the single thread running from top to bottom that holds the two halves of the tilma together (as you look at Mary's face, the line is just to the right).

One of the extraordinary qualities of the image is its sharp edges, despite the coarse weave of the tilma. Much of what appears in the photograph has been painted in -- e.g., the angel, the stars. In fact, as far as I know, infrared studies have shown that only the underlying image of Mary is original. It has not yet been determined what the medium is, but it doesn't saturate the tilma; rather, it floats above it like a photographic emulsion.

302 posted on 12/12/2004 7:31:26 AM PST by eastsider
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To: biblewonk; geezer

i forgive you

303 posted on 12/13/2004 6:15:45 PM PST by WriteOn
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To: al_c

i forgive you

304 posted on 12/13/2004 6:16:39 PM PST by WriteOn
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To: hunyb

i forgive you

305 posted on 12/13/2004 6:18:07 PM PST by WriteOn
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To: fishtank

i forgive you

306 posted on 12/13/2004 6:20:55 PM PST by WriteOn
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To: WriteOn

Desperately seeking conversation?

307 posted on 12/13/2004 6:36:47 PM PST by biblewonk (Neither was the man created for woman but the woman for the man.)
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To: Gophack
Second, the word for brother (or sister), adelphos (adelpha) in Greek, denotes a brother or sister, or near kinsman.

Your Greek is faulty. adelpha LITERALLY means "of the same womb."
308 posted on 12/13/2004 6:37:21 PM PST by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: haole
And if you are brave enough to venture any kind of rational response, try another one: in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament, who is the Final arbiter of greivances between two believers? Scripture, or the Church?

First, the word 'church' found in Matthew 16 and 18 is ekklesia - it is NOT a new creation - it existed in the 'Old Testament' as you call it. It is EXACTLY the same word used in the LXX in reference the People of God in the Wilderness at Sinai etc. God's Word could NEVER be contradicted by God, nor by the assembly of believers.

Deut 13:1-5 If there arise in the midst of you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and he give you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them; you shall not listen to the words of that prophet, or to that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proves you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and you shall serve him, and cleave to him. That prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death, because he has spoken rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to draw you aside out of the way which the LORD your God commanded you to walk in. So shall you put away the evil from the midst of you.

Deut 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Since you think traditions trump God's Word, I am interested why ya'll do not follow the traditions of the Rabbis - after all they are MUCH older, and actually more biblical. And Y'shua told you to obey them!

Matthew 23:1-3a: Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses seat. All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do..."

If y'all are going to go with the traditions of men, you have some catch up reading to do. Start with the 23-volume Talmud.
309 posted on 12/13/2004 6:56:28 PM PST by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: safisoft
how come you did not answer any of the questions i gave you? instead you give a canned response that shows no thought. is that all you are, just know a few lines of scripture, and no depth?

come on, answer the Abraham question. if you cannot, then post no more here.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against any man, whatsoever the sin or wickedness be: but in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall stand. Deuteronomy 19:16 If a lying witness stand against a man, accusing him of transgression, Deuteronomy 19:17 Both of them, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the Lord in the sight of the priests and the judges that shall be in those days. Deuteronomy 19:18 And when after most diligent inquisition, they shall find that the false witness hath told a lie against his brother: Deuteronomy 19:19 They shall render to him as he meant to do to his brother, and thou shalt take away the evil out of the midst of thee

Matthew 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. Matthew 18:16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. Matthew 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Matthew 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

do i have to spoon feed you the answer about Father Abraham as well?

310 posted on 12/14/2004 2:27:16 PM PST by haole (John 10 30)
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Monday, December 12

Our Lady of Guadalupe

God in the Details

When the Aztecs first saw the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe they were struck by its beauty. The blue-green color on Our Lady’s mantle was immediately attractive, since this color would usually fade easily but remains ever bright on this image. The sunburst surrounding the image spoke of its grandeur and mysterious importance. The beautiful and tender face of Our Lady would have been inviting in a warm and personal way.

If the Aztecs got up very close to the image, they would see an extremely small cross on the collar of Our Lady’s garment. This small cross told them that the God that this beautiful Lady worshiped and invited all to know was the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Without noticing this small cross the image would merely be a beautiful curiosity. Instead, the small, easily unnoticed cross changed the lives of millions of Aztecs who were no longer enslaved to fearsome false gods; they had discovered that God is a Father.

Let us pray to Our Lady of Guadalupe that in this season of Advent we may not be enslaved by the gods of consumerism and to our own ideas about the way we think things should be.

Let us ask that the gift and tradition of Advent and Christmas will bring us close enough to see Jesus, whose love and presence continues to free us.

Reflection based on Luke 1:26-38
Father Richard Veras

Loving Father, make me aware of the mercy you offer us through the Son of Mary in every detail and circumstance of my life.

311 posted on 12/12/2005 9:11:23 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
And here is the picture of that tiny cross:

If it disappears, I will post the link.

312 posted on 12/12/2005 9:15:00 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Cap'n Crunch; All
American Catholic’s Saint of the Day


December 12, 2006
Our Lady of Guadalupe

The feast in honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe goes back to the sixteenth century. Chronicles of that period tell us the story.

A poor Indian named Cuauhtlatohuac was baptized and given the name Juan Diego. He was a 57-year-old widower and lived in a small village near Mexico City. On Saturday morning, December 9, 1531, he was on his way to a nearby barrio to attend Mass in honor of Our Lady.

He was walking by a hill called Tepeyac when he heard beautiful music like the warbling of birds. A radiant cloud appeared and within it a young Native American maiden dressed like an Aztec princess. The lady spoke to him in his own language and sent him to the bishop of Mexico, a Franciscan named Juan de Zumarraga. The bishop was to build a chapel in the place where the lady appeared.

Eventually the bishop told Juan Diego to have the lady give him a sign. About this same time Juan Diego’s uncle became seriously ill. This led poor Diego to try to avoid the lady. The lady found Diego, nevertheless, assured him that his uncle would recover and provided roses for Juan to carry to the bishop in his cape or tilma.

When Juan Diego opened his tilma in the bishop’s presence, the roses fell to the ground and the bishop sank to his knees. On Juan Diego’s tilma appeared an image of Mary as she had appeared at the hill of Tepeyac. It was December 12, 1531.


Mary's appearance to Juan Diego as one of his people is a powerful reminder that Mary and the God who sent her accept all peoples. In the context of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the Indians by the Spaniards, the apparition was a rebuke to the Spaniards and an event of vast significance for Native Americans. While a number of them had converted before this incident, they now came in droves. According to a contemporary chronicler, nine million Indians became Catholic in a very short time. In these days when we hear so much about God's preferential option for the poor, Our Lady of Guadalupe cries out to us that God's love for and identification with the poor is an age-old truth that stems from the Gospel itself.


Mary to Juan Diego: “My dearest son, I am the eternal Virgin Mary, Mother of the true God, Author of Life, Creator of all and Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth...and it is my desire that a church be built here in this place for me, where, as your most merciful Mother and that of all your people, I may show my loving clemency and the compassion that I bear to the Indians, and to those who love and seek me...” (from an ancient chronicle).

313 posted on 12/12/2006 10:03:48 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thanks, again.

Ah... I read those words and I still tear up.

I guess I'm just a Momma's boy.

314 posted on 12/12/2006 11:55:07 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch (Am I not here who am your mother? Is there anything else that you need?)
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To: Cap'n Crunch


315 posted on 12/12/2008 7:07:54 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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