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Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas?
ASA On Line ^ | unknown

Posted on 12/17/2001 2:22:22 PM PST by blam

Calico: A 200,000-year old site in the Americas?

New World archaeological sites inferred to be even slightly older than the 11.5 ka Clovis complexes have been controversial; so claims for a 200 ka site in North America have heretofore been treated with substantial disdain. But the acceptance of Monte Verde and Diring may soon change that.

The classic "ancient site" in the New World is "Calico," located in the Central Mojave Desert of California (Shlemon and Budinger, 1990). Two issues have dogged acceptance of Calico by mainstream archaeologists: (1) the authenticity of the artifacts; are they truly the product of human manufacture, or merely naturally produced "geofacts?" and (2) the obvious pre-Clovis age of the deposits (see, for example, lengthy discussions in Leakey and others, 1968; Haynes, 1973; Bryan, 1978; Taylor and Payen, 1975; Carter, 1980; Meighen, 1983; Patterson, 1983; and Budinger and Simpson, 1985).

Thought to be about 200 ka old, the deeply buried chert and chalcedony tools of Calico are usually dismissed as being artifacts. However, if shown to respected Old World archaeologists, many Calico assemblages are readily described as typical Paleolithic implements. Regardless, when told that the ancient tools come from the New World, these same archaeologists then often reject their original interpretation! So much for unbiased reasoning in science! Nevertheless, although it will take time, the pre-Clovis Monte Verde site in Chile and the 260 ka Diring site in Siberia may well provide a "stepping stone" for mainstream archaeological acceptance of the Calico site.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; americas; archaeology; australia; bering; brucebradley; clovis; dennisstanford; dillehay; dna; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; mtdna; multiregionalism; neandertal; paleontology; preclovis; precolumbian; primates; replacement; solutreans
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To: stumpy
"and that was during the time a dog was used to deliver mail to the miners in the hills."

Dang stumpy, how old are you? lol.

51 posted on 01/10/2002 8:12:10 PM PST by blam
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To: stumpy
>If this is in the vicinity of the "Calico Ghost Town"

Yes, pretty much the same thing. You probably saw the sign on the hill from the USMC depot at Barstow?

52 posted on 01/10/2002 8:31:22 PM PST by DensaMensa
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To: stumpy
My first job was at Calico in 1963. Worked as a guide at the "Haunted House" while going to high school in Barstow.
53 posted on 01/21/2002 5:12:40 PM PST by TruthWillWin
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To: DensaMensa
Calico is a few miles from the little town of Yermo.
54 posted on 01/21/2002 5:17:00 PM PST by TruthWillWin
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
will soon see a "quiet revolution"

It will be a bitterly opposed revolution and will depend on young archaeologistswho are trying to make names for themselves because the older ones will fight bitterly to suppress any discoveries that question their own assumptions. Archaeologists are some of the very most "religious" of scientists in that for them all knowledge is "received" as with an original "revelation" that cannot be challenged but can only be elucidated.

56 posted on 04/14/2002 4:40:41 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: arthurus
"It will be a bitterly opposed revolution and will depend on young archaeologistswho are trying to make names for themselves because the older ones will fight bitterly to suppress any discoveries that question their own assumptions."

Yup. Archaeology/anthropology in the Americas are already in revolt. Monte Verde broke the mold....and if the underwater site (2200 ft) off the coast of Cuba proves to be human, the flood gates are open. (World history will be rewritten)

57 posted on 04/14/2002 5:01:13 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Please add me to your list. The 'Siberian' climate was not always harsh was it? Parts of Alaska like Fairbanks, is bog like when thawed, similar to a swamp.
58 posted on 06/29/2002 12:37:53 AM PDT by yoe
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To: blam
I would appreciate being added to yor ping list. Many thanks.

Albee

59 posted on 01/11/2003 5:29:28 PM PST by albee
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To: albee
A little late to the thread aren't you? This thread was started 12-17-2001. You're on the list.
60 posted on 01/11/2003 10:41:02 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Better late than not at all. ;)
Add me also please. Everytime I see some piece of "Common Knowledge" debunked this subject become just a bit more interesting.
61 posted on 04/15/2003 10:14:10 PM PDT by kAcknor
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To: blam
Please add me to ping list, too! This is cool stuff!
62 posted on 08/04/2003 2:31:56 PM PDT by Little Ray (When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!)
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To: Little Ray; farmfriend
"Please add me to ping list, too! This is cool stuff!"

Okay, Freeper 'farmfriend' keeps the 'ping' list but I'll ask him to put you on it.

63 posted on 08/04/2003 3:40:38 PM PDT by blam
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To: Little Ray; blam
Little Ray, consider yourself added to the ping list.
64 posted on 08/04/2003 7:59:07 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: blam
"Yup. I've read that (the) Ukraine has a topsoil depth of 150 feet. It blew in there over the eons from other places."

Such wind-deposited soils are called loess. There are sites in my home county in Oklahoma where the topsoil is 30-40' deep.

65 posted on 08/04/2003 8:29:58 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE.)
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To: okie01
"There are sites in my home county in Oklahoma where the topsoil is 30-40' deep."

That's good, huh? Good farming soil.

66 posted on 08/04/2003 8:36:36 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
"That's good, huh? Good farming soil."

Oh, yeahhhh.

67 posted on 08/04/2003 9:01:27 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE.)
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To: blam
NOW you've got my attention !

I might add, all the mainstream "out-of-Africa-Cause it's Politically Correct" folks are probably having coronaries.
68 posted on 09/24/2003 4:21:17 PM PDT by genefromjersey (So little time - so many FLAMES to light !!)
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To: genefromjersey
"NOW you've got my attention ! "

LOL. I posted this almost three years ago. Glad you enjoyed it.

69 posted on 09/24/2003 4:28:52 PM PDT by blam
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To: TruthWillWin
My relatives used to take us to Calico when we were bored with the other entertainments of Barstow and Hinckley.

My mother used to make us walk very quietly on the board sidewalk past a house with lace curtains. She told us the school marm from when Calico was still a mining town lived there. She was very old, and my mother didn't want a bunch of noisy kids ruining her repose. I always tried to surreptitiously peer through the window as we walked by, but I never saw her.
70 posted on 09/24/2003 4:35:00 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: farmfriend
I don't think this one made it into the GGG files. Thanks
71 posted on 09/24/2003 4:35:05 PM PDT by blam
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To: stumpy
Calico, the ghost town, was moved to Knotts Berry Farm in Buena Park, CA in the 1950's. Remnants of the old site can still be seen off I-15 north of Barstow and the marine depot at Yermo.

yitbos

72 posted on 09/24/2003 4:43:43 PM PDT by bruinbirdman (Those who control language control minds)
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To: hedgetrimmer
Entertainments of Barstow and Hinkley?? I grew up in Barstow and probably knew some of your relatives. My first paying job when I was still in high school was at Calico where I was a guide for the haunted house. At that time (1963) Calico had been taken over by Knotts Berry Farm. I can remember Calico before the Knotts takeover.
73 posted on 09/25/2003 8:55:08 AM PDT by TruthWillWin
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To: bruinbirdman
bruinbirdman, Knott's Berry Farm took over Calico in the late 50's and rebuilt it where it was as a tourist attraction. Although Knott's Berry's did build a ghost town in Buena Park in their amusment park the original Calico Ghost town, although extensively rebuilt, still exists just outside of Yermo.
74 posted on 09/25/2003 9:00:46 AM PDT by TruthWillWin
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To: TruthWillWin
Oh yes, in Barstow a great thing to do was to walk down to the railroad tracks and flatten pennies. Then there was a little cafe downtown that made great chocolate malteds. If you didn't want to do that you could hang out at the drive-in burger placeand check out the various hot rods and drag racers coming in, or go swimming at the public pool. If it was really really hot you might go to the afternoon matinee at the movie theater, just to cool down.
75 posted on 09/25/2003 12:14:25 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
Hedgetrimmer,

Cafe Downtown = White Spot

Burger Place = Burger Haven

Public Swiming Pool = High School Pool till late 60's, then at Fogelson Park.

76 posted on 09/25/2003 8:05:13 PM PDT by TruthWillWin
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Not a ping, just a GGG update.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

77 posted on 01/05/2005 10:10:35 PM PST by SunkenCiv (the US population in the year 2100 will exceed a billion, perhaps even three billion.)
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To: SunkenCiv

April bump.


78 posted on 04/06/2005 6:22:52 PM PDT by blam
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To: hedgetrimmer

I spent a lot of time in the early 70s all around the Calico area. While we were stationed at MCSC Barstow my now wife and I used to go out there to various caves and areas to get away from the barracks and party. There was certainly little else in Barstow to do other than go to the Goldstone bar. After reading this I wish I had spent more time digging around up there and less swilling cheap wine and beer, might have made a great discovery.


79 posted on 05/18/2005 11:32:31 AM PDT by RJS1950 (The rats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

80 posted on 09/14/2005 11:16:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: TruthWillWin

Hey, I was the third meanest kid in Daggett!!!


81 posted on 09/14/2005 11:44:35 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
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To: investigateworld

From what decade? If it's the late 50's or early 60's then I probably know you.


82 posted on 09/15/2005 6:03:22 AM PDT by TruthWillWin
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To: TruthWillWin

JFK grad, 1967


83 posted on 09/15/2005 7:25:56 AM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
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To: gcruse
Evidence be damned, right?

I don't think the "evidence" is the problem here but rather the assumptive projections foisted upon the evidence and stated as fact.

84 posted on 09/15/2005 7:31:03 AM PDT by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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To: LostTribe
The year 1997 saw another break through, albeit indirect, for acceptance of pre-Clovis man in the Americas

By the time the ivy league academicians get around to adjusting their doctrines of human pre-history:

We will have captured and bred bigfoot

Chupacabra will be a plush childrens toy

Martha Stewart will be in world wide syndication .

Anthopologists are the worst of the worst when it comes to doctrinaire lethargy.

85 posted on 09/15/2005 7:37:30 AM PDT by i.l.e. (Tagline - this space for sale....)
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To: hedgetrimmer

When I was a boy we did silver dimes. I guess hat's a few decades of inflation for you.


86 posted on 01/17/2006 11:23:26 PM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: Iwentsouth

Well, you know, the horse originated in North America, as did the rhinoceros and migrated elsewhere from North America, later becoming extinct in N.A. and continuing on in Asia and Africa, respectively.

The horse was reintroduced in quite "contemporary" times which is why they're then a more current presence on the continents of North and South America.

So, just as to possibility, it's possible that homo sapiens originated in North America/South America, too and migrated outward, and also became extinct in the Americas until later ongoing migrations.

It's POSSIBLE, is all I'm saying. Perhaps the discoveries as to early homo sapiens in Africa were LATER or even parallel to same in the Americas, but the evidence hasn't (yeet) been found as to activity in North/South America.

I'm just saying, it's POSSIBLE. There were likely far more arrivals, disappearances, and arrivals again to and from North/South America by humans and not limited to a few arrivals only.


87 posted on 01/18/2006 8:26:23 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: blam

I just want to add here, for the sake of conversation, that customarily Caucasian, "white" people can and do become quite "red" in skin color after prolonged exposure to the sun, particularly in the middle of North America. I've seen it happen to nearly all male Swedes, for instance, after they've farmed many years.

However, brown hair will turn far more blond in prolonged sun exposure unless there is a head covering worn, in which case brown hair turns darker.

Just saying, could be...that the "red" man is "red" because the lifestyles are mostly, predominantly outside for full day-hours. "Red" is what happens to the skin if you're initially Caucasian (other than people like me who are redhaired and nearly opaquely white skinned, in which case we just burn and stay colorless).


88 posted on 01/18/2006 8:35:03 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: MillerCreek; okie01
Here's something to think about.<

Who Were The Si-Te-Cah

89 posted on 01/18/2006 11:46:10 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Calico ghost town. It's owned by Knotts Berry Farm. Its an old ghost town that has had several unsuccessful attempts to make it popular and profitable.

I would bet the finds are a hoax, to drum up business.

90 posted on 01/18/2006 11:49:10 AM PST by Bear_Slayer
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To: blam

Great post and great articles and responses. I have to bookmark this fascinating stuff.

If "modern" man managed to get to Australia possibly 60,000 years ago http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Mungo_Man.html
it is inconceivable to me that modern man didn't manage to reach the Americas well before Clovis.

I think Clovis Man was responsible for the extinction of the Ice Age Megafauna, but there must have been eons of existance of "modern" man and the megafauna together before Clovis technology and the human population density reached the point it could accomplish this.


91 posted on 01/18/2006 12:01:12 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU
Mungo Man has been redated to 48,000 years. But, I still think people got to Australia 60k years ago and possibly earlier.

They found an 80k YO well-worn shell necklace with the 'Hobbits' on Flores Island. BTW, Flores Island was an island during the entire Ice Age. That means the 'Hobbits' survived the Toba near-extinction event 74,000 years ago.

92 posted on 01/18/2006 12:19:00 PM PST by blam
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To: Bear_Slayer
"I would bet the finds are a hoax, to drum up business."

LOL. Calico was there (and known for its artifacts) long before there was a Knotts Berry Farm.

93 posted on 01/18/2006 12:21:13 PM PST by blam
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To: ThanhPhero

It would be really need if there were solid evidence of human inhabitation of North America 200,000 years ago. It would be even neater if someone could find a Free Republic thread that old and revive it.


94 posted on 01/18/2006 2:05:14 PM PST by Caesar Soze
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To: Iwentsouth
I have often been told that I look and act like a Neanderthal. I can therefore make a valid claim that I am a descendant of these true first Americans and that your people are late comers, invaders who stole my people's land from me.

I want reparations!!

Can I get comp'd at some tribes casino?

Please Note: all of the above is satire - though I have no directly traceable lineage to any of the Nations now known as "Native Americans," my mother was raised in the Nations and I grew up with great love and respect for those cultures (though I'm not willing to buy that "one with nature" crap).
95 posted on 01/18/2006 2:20:58 PM PST by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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To: blam
I visited Calico, as a ghost town, long before Knotts ever owned it. When I did, it was an actual defunct town and not an attempt tourist trap.

Also, notice from the article that nothing of human origin was found. I don't deny that there is rich history there, but I suspect that some are trying to make that dustbowl more popular by creating an archeology interest there.

I'm not buying it.

96 posted on 01/18/2006 4:10:03 PM PST by Bear_Slayer
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To: Bear_Slayer
"I'm not buying it."

You're not alone. A lot of people don't.

97 posted on 01/18/2006 4:54:15 PM PST by blam
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98 posted on 04/21/2006 9:21:02 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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this appears to be the oldest FR topic about Al Goodyear:

Site Sheds Light on Human Arrival
Source: AP via Yahoo
Published: May 26, 2001
Posted on 05/27/2001 06:25:12 PDT by sarcasm
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b11003848e1.htm


99 posted on 08/11/2006 9:15:22 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just a Blast from the Past.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

100 posted on 08/20/2006 2:35:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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