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I will post a number of related articles on this thread as it progresses. I do believe these sites are this old.
1 posted on 12/17/2001 2:22:22 PM PST by blam
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To: LostTribe;SurferDoc;Right Whale;sawsalimb
Targeting Early Man Sites

Though Calico and many other previously inferred pre-Clovis sites may ultimately be accepted as "legitimate," the real challenge is to predict the general location and to actively explore other such sites. But where? Logically, they should occur on surfaces about 200 ka old. But such surfaces are rare owing to rapid fluvial dissection or to later covering by sediments. Indeed, most of the world's geomorphic surfaces are no older than Holocene (~10.5 ka). There are exceptions, however. For example, some remnant, high-level alluvial fans in the Mojave Desert are more than about 100 ka old, recognized by their tightly packed desert pavement, their dark- colored patina (desert varnish), and their strongly developed surface soils (relict paleosols; Shlemon, 1978). But such desert surfaces are, and were, inherently inhospitable for continued human occupance. Therefore, few high concentrations of undisturbed artifacts are likely to be found.

In contrast, the most promising, unequivocal Early Man targets are buried, often under many meters of sediments. Only a fraction of the ancient surfaces (buried paleosols) are ever seen, usually in fortuitous road or mining cuts. The most favorable Early Man targets are old shorelines that mark the junction of diverse environments, and thus are particularly susceptible to artifact concentration and preservation (Budinger, 1992).

Though rare, such paleo-environments may also be exposed in natural cuts. Ironically, one of the best Early Man "targets" are natural exposures that occur very near the Calico site. Indeed, the full acceptance of Calico may not come from collecting more on-site artifacts, but from systematic observation and possible excavations in the nearby Manix Lake beds (Shlemon and Budinger, 1990). The stratigraphy of the well exposed Manix beds is remarkable, for these beds range in age from about 20 ka to 290 ka, recording climatic and sedimentation change in this part of California for much of middle and late Quaternary time; they interfinger distal fan sediments that emanated from the Calico Mountains and other nearby "quarry sites;" they bear several datable ash beds, one of which is an estimated 185 ka, tantalizing close to the 200 ka age for the Calico artifact-bearing beds; and they contain abundant vertebrate fossils. In sum, the Manix Lake beds are a classic Early Man target. They may indeed be the place for a new breed of archaeologists and their geoscience colleagues to explore unabashedly for pre-Clovis sites. Such endeavors are no longer far fetched, particularly in light of the recent Monte Verde and Diring discoveries.
Accordingly, it appears that we will soon see a "quiet revolution" in New World archaeology whereby mainstream archaeologists reinterpret their data and thus "document" pre-Clovis sites. If so, New World archaeology will take a giant step forward, perhaps analogous to the now-famous 1970's "plate tectonic revolution" in geology.

2 posted on 12/17/2001 2:26:10 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Thanks for the article. Very interesting. My grandmother insists we were always here. Since I am part of the tribe(Athabascan) that supposably came here 35,000 years ago from Asia on a landbridge. These people make these theorys and teach them as fact.
3 posted on 12/17/2001 2:29:10 PM PST by Iwentsouth
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To: blam
I agree with you. The stupid idea that rasoning man just appeared 6000 years ago is absurb.
13 posted on 12/17/2001 3:13:19 PM PST by vannrox
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To: blam
These reports don't make much sense. THe Siberian layer with a date of 260K was just below layers dated 10K. The article said a lot of these "earliest sites" are like this. How do we know that the makers didn't live 10 K ago and BURY there implements, putting the implements in the 260K old soil?

Lumenessence (sic) is also a suspect method of dating. It gives only maximum dates. The actual date of an artifact could easily be 1/20th that date.

14 posted on 12/17/2001 3:17:46 PM PST by Ahban
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To: blam
What the hell is ka?
20 posted on 12/17/2001 4:01:53 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: blam
Bones off coast may date back 13,000 years

The finding on an island off California supports the notion that the first humans in America came by boat

Monday, July 5, 1999
By Richard L. Hill of The Oregonian staff

Three human bones found 40 years ago off the Southern California coast may rewrite the history of the Americas.

Recent radiocarbon dates indicate they are about 13,000 years old. If confirmed, that would make them the oldest remains ever found in North America.

The bones -- two thigh bones and a kneecap -- were found in 1959, buried 30 feet deep in the side wall of Arlington Canyon on Santa Rosa Island in the Channel Islands off Santa Barbara. Phil C. Orr, who was curator of anthropology and paleontology at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, discovered them.

The finding adds support to the theory that at least some of the first humans who came to the New World may have arrived by boat rather than by a land route.

John R. Johnson, current curator of anthropology at the Santa Barbara Museum, where the bones are stored, said Orr was interested in the pygmy mammoths that had become extinct on the Channel Islands at the end of the last ice age.

"Phil was trying to prove that their extinction was no accident -- that humans were out there hunting the mammoth and roasting them in pits," Johnson said.

Orr, who died in 1991, was surveying mammoth bones on the island when he saw a human thigh bone poking out from the side of the canyon. A closer examination revealed the other two bones.

Johnson said Orr, who called his discovery "Arlington Springs Man," obtained a radiocarbon date of 10,000 years from charcoal in the same soil layer that contained the bones. But because of questions about the date's accuracy, he removed the block of earth that contained the bones, wrapped it in plaster and placed it in a museum storage room.

"Phil realized what a stupendous find it was," Johnson said, "so he did the smart thing by archiving that block of earth with the remains for that future time when dating techniques would improve."

Johnson and Don P. Morris, an archaeologist with Channel Islands National Park, recently sent a minute bone fragment to Thomas W. Stafford, a research geochemist who runs the Stafford Research Laboratories in Boulder, Colo., who came up with the 13,000-year-old date.

The researchers also determined that Arlington Springs Man actually is Arlington Springs Woman. They estimated from the length of one thigh bone that the woman was about 5 feet 1 inch tall.

Johnson said field work at the discovery site might provide more information. "Once there is a series of radiocarbon dates obtained in the strata above Arlington Springs Woman, it'll give us more confidence in the dates we have," he said.

Discoveries of such ancient remains are rare. The oldest previous skeletal remains found in North America were those of "Buhla." They were found in 1989 in a gravel quarry near Buhl in south-central Idaho. Only about half of her was recovered, as her pelvis and other lower-limb bones apparently were lost in a rock crusher. Radiocarbon dating put the remains at 10,675 years old.

The oldest remains found in Washington or Oregon are those of Kennewick Man, a virtually complete skeleton found in July 1996 on the banks of the Columbia River in Kennewick, Wash. A radiocarbon date determined the remains to be about 9,300 years old; further testing is planned.

(If the 13,000 year old date holds up, this would be the oldest human skeleton found anywhere in the Americas, North and South. Luzia is dated at 11,500 years old.)

27 posted on 12/17/2001 7:26:01 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

THE GLEN ROSE AND ANTELOPE SPRINGS TRACKS

Here is the remarkable story of ancient human tracks, which evolutionists would rather that you not know about.

Source:  http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/13anc07.htm#Antelope Springs Tracks

 

THE GLEN ROSE TRACKS

There are giant human tracks, in Texas, by dinosaur prints.

In a Cretaceous limestone formation near Glen Rose, Texas, are to be found some remarkable footprints. They are the tracks of giant men! You can go look at them for yourself. (But when you arrive, ask one of the old timers to tell you where to look. As soon as they are exposed, they gradually begin eroding away.)

Glen Rose is located in north central Texas, about 40 miles southwest of the Fort Worth-Dallas metropolitan area. The area has little rainfall; and, for several months each year the Paluxy River is completely dry. From time to time the river changes its course. This occurs at those times when the quiet river becomes a raging torrent. Because the river has such a steep slope (a drop of 17 feet [51.8 dm] per mile), it is the second swiftest river in Texas and quite dangerous in time of heavy rainfall.

Tracks are found in several of the layers of limestone, as they are exposed by river erosion. Man tracks have been found in layers BELOW that of the dinosaur prints! Fossils from land, seashore, and open sea have all been found here.

Human footprints are found above, with, and below prints of bears, saber-toothed tigers, mammoths, and dinosaurs.

THE ANTELOPE SPRINGS TRACKS

Sandaled footprints were found amid trilobites.

Trilobites are small marine creatures that are now extinct. Evolutionists tell us that trilobites are one of the most ancient creatures which have ever lived on Planet Earth, and they existed millions of years before there were human beings. William J. Meister, Sr., a drafting supervisor by trade (and, by the way, a non-Christian), made a hobby of searching for trilobite fossils in the mountains of Utah. On June 1, 1968, he found a human footprint, and there were trilobites in the same rock! The location was Antelope Springs, about 43 miles northwest of Delta, Utah.

Breaking off a large, two-inch thick piece of rock, he hit it on edge with a hammer, and it fell open in his hand. To his great astonishment, he found on one side the footprint of a human being, with trilobites right in the footprint itself! The other half of the rock slab showed an almost perfect mold of a footprint and fossils. Amazingly, the human was wearing a sandal!

The footprint measured 10¼ inches long by 3½ inches wide at the sole [26.035 x 8.89 cm], and 3 inches wide [7.62 cm] at the heel. The heel print was indented in the rock about an eighth of an inch [1.676 cm] more than the sole. It was clearly the right foot, because the sandal was well-worn on the right side of the heel. Several easily visible trilobites were in the footprint. It had stepped on them, pressing them underfoot.

No chance of hand-made "carvings" here, as the evolutionists charge at Glen Rose. The footprint was located halfway up a 2,000-foot mountain face, and Meister had to stop to rest many times as he climbed. Where he found the print, he had to make footholds to stand on, in order to search for trilobites.

Meister mentions that he told Burdick and Carlisle about the site. This is what happened next:

"The first week in August, Dr. Clifford Burdick, a well-traveled consulting geologist of Tucson, Arizona, visited the site of the discovery at Antelope Springs with Mr. Carlisle [a graduate geologist at the University of Colorado]. On this visit Dr. Burdick found a footprint of a barefoot child in the same location as my discovery. He showed my this footprint on August 18.

"The day before, my family and I had met Dr. Burdick at Antelope Springs. While there we found another sandal print. Dr. Burdick continued; and, on Monday, August 19, he informed me by letter that he had found a second child's footprint.

"In addition to my discovery and that of Dr. Burdick's, a friend of mine, George Silver, digging alone in this location, discovered more footprints of a human or human beings, also shod in sandals. His specimen, which he showed to me (I also showed this specimen to Dr. Melvin Clark), had two footprints, one about a half inch [2.54 cm] above and on top of the other.

"Finally Dean Bitter, teacher in the public schools of Salt Lake City, discovered other footprints of human beings wearing sandals much like those found by George Silver and me. Both Dr. Cook and I have seen his specimens found at Antelope Springs, some distance from the site of my discovery."—William J. Meister, Sr., "Discovery of Trilobite Fossils in Shod Footprint of Human in `Trilobite Beds'—A Cambrian Formation—Antelope Springs, Utah," in Why Not Creation? (1970), p. 190.

As a result of finding the footprints, Meister became a Christian.

*Leland Davis, a consulting geologist, analyzed the strata the footprints had been found in—and found them to be "consisting almost entirely of Cambrian strata"! This is the oldest regular fossil-bearing strata on the planet!

You can find a complete description of the Antelope Springs footprint discoveries in the book, Why Not Creation? pp. 185-193.

Similar giant human footprints have been found in Arizona, near Mount Whitney, in California; near White Sands, New Mexico; and other places.

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28 posted on 12/17/2001 7:26:22 PM PST by Texas Yellow Rose
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To: blam
This article may have some fact, but that 200,000 years is really a stretch.
33 posted on 12/18/2001 3:43:50 AM PST by CWRWinger
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To: blam;Gods, Graves, Glyphs;
More good stuff!

To find all articles tagged or indexed using 'Gods, Graves, Glyphs'

Click here: 'Gods, Graves, Glyphs'

47 posted on 01/07/2002 10:42:51 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: blam
I visted the Calico site several years ago. Easy to get to, it is interesting. Don't know if I believe the age or not.
49 posted on 01/10/2002 7:26:28 PM PST by DensaMensa
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To: blam
Please add me to ping list, too! This is cool stuff!
62 posted on 08/04/2003 2:31:56 PM PDT by Little Ray (When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!)
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To: blam
NOW you've got my attention !

I might add, all the mainstream "out-of-Africa-Cause it's Politically Correct" folks are probably having coronaries.
68 posted on 09/24/2003 4:21:17 PM PDT by genefromjersey (So little time - so many FLAMES to light !!)
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Not a ping, just a GGG update.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

77 posted on 01/05/2005 10:10:35 PM PST by SunkenCiv (the US population in the year 2100 will exceed a billion, perhaps even three billion.)
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To: blam
Calico ghost town. It's owned by Knotts Berry Farm. Its an old ghost town that has had several unsuccessful attempts to make it popular and profitable.

I would bet the finds are a hoax, to drum up business.

90 posted on 01/18/2006 11:49:10 AM PST by Bear_Slayer
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To: blam

Great post and great articles and responses. I have to bookmark this fascinating stuff.

If "modern" man managed to get to Australia possibly 60,000 years ago http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Mungo_Man.html
it is inconceivable to me that modern man didn't manage to reach the Americas well before Clovis.

I think Clovis Man was responsible for the extinction of the Ice Age Megafauna, but there must have been eons of existance of "modern" man and the megafauna together before Clovis technology and the human population density reached the point it could accomplish this.


91 posted on 01/18/2006 12:01:12 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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98 posted on 04/21/2006 9:21:02 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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this appears to be the oldest FR topic about Al Goodyear:

Site Sheds Light on Human Arrival
Source: AP via Yahoo
Published: May 26, 2001
Posted on 05/27/2001 06:25:12 PDT by sarcasm
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b11003848e1.htm


99 posted on 08/11/2006 9:15:22 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just a Blast from the Past.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

100 posted on 08/20/2006 2:35:35 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: LucyT

Boat People?


103 posted on 10/19/2006 6:01:59 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

bump


104 posted on 01/13/2007 8:35:20 AM PST by stockpirate (John Kerry & FBI files ==> http://www.freerepublic.com/~stockpirate/)
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