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Dying boy, 15, gets wish: losing virginity
Chicago Sun Times ^ | 12/23/01 | BY BENJAMIN ERRETT

Posted on 12/23/2001 6:26:24 AM PST by Mopp4

A terminally ill boy had his dying wish granted in Australia this month, but ethicists are still at odds over whether it was the right thing to do.
The wish was not for a trip to Disneyland or to meet a famous sports star. Instead, the 15-year-old wanted to lose his virginity before he died of cancer. The boy, who remains anonymous but was called Jack by the Australian media, did not want his parents to know about his request. Because of his many years spent in the hospital, he had no girlfriend or female friends.
Jack died last week, but not before having his last wish granted. Without the knowledge of his parents or hospital staff, friends arranged an encounter with a prostitute outside of hospital premises. All precautions were taken, and the organizers made sure the act was fully consensual. The issue has sparked fierce debate over the legal and ethical implications of granting the boy's request. By law, Jack was still a child, and the woman involved could in theory face charges for having sex with a minor. The debate was sparked by the hospital's child psychologist, who wrote a letter to "Life Matters," a radio show in which academics debate ethical and moral dilemmas. The scenario was presented in the abstract, with no details about the boy's identity.

"He had been sick for quite a long period, and his schooling was very disrupted, so he hadn't had many opportunities to acquire and retain friends, and his access to young women was pretty poor," the psychologist said recently in an interview with Australia's Daily Telegraph newspaper. "But he was very interested in young women and was experiencing that surge of testosterone that teenage boys have." Hospital staff initially wanted to pool donations to pay for a prostitute, but the ethical and legal implications prevented them from doing so. The psychologist presented members of the clergy with the dilemma and found no clear answer. "It really polarized them," he said. "About half said, 'What's your problem?' And the other half said [it] demeans women and reduces the sexual act to being just a physical one."

Dr. Stephen Leeder, dean of medicine at the University of Sydney and a "Life Matters" panelist, said the issue was a difficult one. "I pointed out that public hospitals operated under the expectation that they would abide by state law," he said. "While various things doubtless are done that are at the edge of that, it's important the public has confidence that the law will be followed." Jack's psychologist, who works with children in palliative care, said the desire was driven in part by a need for basic human contact. "In a child dying over a long period of time, there is often a condition we call 'skin hunger,'" he said. The terminally ill child yearns for non-clinical contact because "mostly when people touch them, it's to do something unpleasant, something that might hurt." Leeder called the diagnosis "improbable." Judy Lumby, the show's other panelist and the executive director of the New South Wales College of Nursing, argued that the details as presented made it abundantly clear the boy's wish ought to be granted. "I said that I would try my darndest as a nurse to do whatever I could to make sure his wish came true," she said. "I just think we are so archaic in the way we treat people in institutions. Certainly, if any of my three daughters were dying, I'd do whatever I could, and I'm sure that you would, too." National Post


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My inital reaction to this article was shock. This boy is dying at age 15 and the most important thing in the world to him is to get laid before he passes on. He didn't even want his parents to know about it. Is this reflective of the way young people view life today? I don't care that I will be missing out on the chance to lead a full life, just let me have sex before I go?
1 posted on 12/23/2001 6:26:24 AM PST by Mopp4
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To: Mopp4
Kids don't raise themselves, at least they weren't meant to. They don't go this far off track in a normal, decent family.

This is the sort of soul-less, animalistic response to impending death that might be expected from a human child raised by beasts.

You've got to assign a healthy dose of blame to the parents here.

2 posted on 12/23/2001 6:33:00 AM PST by DWSUWF
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To: Mopp4
How many articles are we going to have on this story...it's a not repeat per se, but there at least two threads already on it.
3 posted on 12/23/2001 6:34:11 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: Mopp4
Sounds reasonable to me. I was a 15 year old boy once--at that age that's all I wanted.
You must be a girl.
4 posted on 12/23/2001 6:34:54 AM PST by youngjim
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To: Mopp4
It's been said that for those destined for eternal damnation, the world is the closest they'll get to heaven. For those with an eternal relationship with God paid for by Him, our worldly stay is the closest to hell we'll ever know.

Hopefully he was below the age of accountability or still recognized the impotence of such a nearly final act or perhaps it was natural for his true self to be judged accordingly.

5 posted on 12/23/2001 6:35:30 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Mopp4
Chelsea is one lucky girl.
6 posted on 12/23/2001 6:36:36 AM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Mopp4
Old news, already discussed two days ago. Likely that FR is where the Chicago Sun-Times got the story. Check out thoroughly discussed story HERE.
7 posted on 12/23/2001 6:38:28 AM PST by DeSoto
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To: youngjim
Sounds reasonable to me. I was a 15 year old boy once--at that age that's all I wanted. You must be a girl.

Hahaha! Thanks for the first laugh of the morning!
To me, this whole story is a non-issue. Let the kid have what he wants.
Good lord, talk about a tempest in a teapot! Must have been a slow news day.

8 posted on 12/23/2001 6:40:53 AM PST by EggsAckley
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To: Mopp4
I hope this doesn't result in an epidemic of 'dying' teenage boys.
9 posted on 12/23/2001 6:41:27 AM PST by a_federalist
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To: Mopp4
Did he wear a condom?
10 posted on 12/23/2001 6:43:28 AM PST by dennisw
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To: EggsAckley
I can't believe some people around here.

Sheesh, he is 15, and he knows he's dying..so he wants to experience sex so he can leave this earth having experienced what we all are...HUMAN....

I say good for him!!!!

11 posted on 12/23/2001 6:44:44 AM PST by Neets
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To: Mopp4
This boy is dying at age 15

I also remember me at 15, I had raging hormones and thought with my member several times. (Don't know if I've changed that much, have to ask my wife).

What would have been a better for him to ask for? A new playstation (that'd really be earth shattering), a trip to Disney World?

Yea it may be seen as self centered, but put yourself in his place, what would you ask for as a dying wish?

My Grandfather on his deathbed told my father his wished for one last peaceful bowel movement (he was a little more blunt). My father was shocked, until years later when he had quaduple by-bass surgery and finally understood that my grandfather was right.

So not having "walked a mile in his shoes", I give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he made a right request.

12 posted on 12/23/2001 6:44:56 AM PST by where's_the_Outrage?
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To: Mopp4
Interesting: His eternal life is immediately before him.

And this "child of the media" wants 30 seconds of immediate sexual gratification rather than an eternity of life.

If he is dead now, I doubt he considers those 30 seconds very important right now.

Notice also that his "instincts" told him NOT to tell his parents, nor hospital administrators ...... Another case of "morality" and "good conscious" coming from instincts deep in our souls.

13 posted on 12/23/2001 6:45:43 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE
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To: dennisw
"All precautions were taken"
14 posted on 12/23/2001 6:46:20 AM PST by coloradan
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To: DWSUWF
You've got to assign a healthy dose of blame to the parents here.

And I do! Childhood cancer is nearly always genetic, and that places blame for the whole sad situation squarely at the parent's feet.

15 posted on 12/23/2001 6:48:07 AM PST by coloradan
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To: Mopp4
Look at it this way: It proves he's not a Muslim terrorist. He had to "get it" here
because he knows there are no virgins waiting for him "there."
16 posted on 12/23/2001 6:50:11 AM PST by EggsAckley
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To: DeSoto
Well, I did a search under the title from the Sun Times and it didn't come up. Next time, I'll search a little harder. Thanks.
17 posted on 12/23/2001 6:51:04 AM PST by Mopp4
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To: Mopp4
Is this reflective of the way young people view life today?

Just curious, but are you female?

I know when I was at that age my hormones were going wild - hell they still are, but while I have never acted on those impulses I was also never dying slowly of cancer.

I don't care that I will be missing out on the chance to lead a full life, just let me have sex before I go?

I would imagine he cared greatly about missing out on a full life, sex or no sex, he still loses that.

If it were me in Jack's shoes you bet that would've been my dying wish.

18 posted on 12/23/2001 6:52:29 AM PST by ashrad
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To: youngjim
No - I'm a male who's have plenty of sex. What would your reaction be if it had been a 15 year old girl who wanted to "get doinked" before she died?
19 posted on 12/23/2001 6:53:06 AM PST by Mopp4
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
...So not having "walked a mile in his shoes", I give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he made a right request.

Your entire thoughtful (and humorous) post is appreciated.

20 posted on 12/23/2001 6:57:30 AM PST by shetlan
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Lighten up. Poor kid. When I was 16 it seemed like the most important thing in the world. Why would this kid feel any different. I am more concerned with this kid dying of cancer whithout any friends. Looks like some close to him did what they could to ease his passing.
21 posted on 12/23/2001 6:57:35 AM PST by Newbomb Turk
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
So not having "walked a mile in his shoes", I give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he made a right request.

My thoughts exactly.
Well said!

22 posted on 12/23/2001 6:58:29 AM PST by ashrad
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To: Mopp4
Everyone's answer to the first question regarding what one wants in a one on one personal relationship -- What do I want with you? -- is probably ... "I want to love you."
23 posted on 12/23/2001 6:58:33 AM PST by thinktwice
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To: Mopp4
I read about how some of those ever-progressive Dutch wanted state-paid hookers to service people in long hospital stays! I hope they intened to do more than draw a curtain between the roomates! (insert George Costanza image here)

Seriously, though. Long term patients ought'a at least be allowed to socialize with each other, w/ maybe a little privacy. If the kid just had another female patient friend who paid some attention to him, it would be a non-issue.

24 posted on 12/23/2001 7:00:34 AM PST by pollwatcher
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Notice also that his "instincts" told him NOT to tell his parents, nor hospital administrators ...... Another case of "morality" and "good conscious" coming from instincts deep in our souls.

Maybe so! He obviously knew that his parents et al would NOT approve.

For all the people that want to blame his parents for what he did behind their backs.... as teens what exactly did they do behind their parents back ?

There are so many things naive parents DON'T know about their kids..unbelievable. From PTA parents, to Pastor parents..they are naive. LOL Quite comical really.

25 posted on 12/23/2001 7:01:15 AM PST by Freedom2specul8
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To: DWSUWF
So you are one of those types who blame parents for the sins of their children? Do you have kids? What do you think of those families where one child out of 3 or 5 becomes the black sheep? Do you blame the parents? Just curious..
26 posted on 12/23/2001 7:08:09 AM PST by Freedom2specul8
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To: Mopp4
I don't understand some of the comments here. Does the bible say somewhere that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin? What's this "he's going to Hell" stuff?
27 posted on 12/23/2001 7:08:32 AM PST by John Jorsett
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Mopp4
The boy is merely reflecting one of the four highest democratic "virtues" e.g. eating, drinking, copulating and snoring. These "Good Things" are what he has seen and heard all of his young life.
29 posted on 12/23/2001 7:18:42 AM PST by HENRYADAMS
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To: John Jorsett
Fornication is a serious violation of the 6th Commandment, particularly if it occurs with a prostitute. One scriptural reference can be found at 1 Corinthians 6:15-20.
30 posted on 12/23/2001 7:21:05 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: John Jorsett
Does the bible say somewhere that sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin? What's this "he's going to Hell" stuff?

There is only one reason a person will go to hell if they die. That is not accepting the gift of salvation while one is still alive.

31 posted on 12/23/2001 7:21:32 AM PST by Freedom2specul8
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Yeah, but afterward you can repent and accept Jesus and it just goes away. Cool!
32 posted on 12/23/2001 7:23:37 AM PST by cocknlock
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To: Mopp4
Who paid the prostitute I wonder?
33 posted on 12/23/2001 7:25:02 AM PST by thathamiltonwoman
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
And another thing, Jesus said that thinkin it is as bad as doin it, so.............what's the big deal about actually having done it?
34 posted on 12/23/2001 7:27:33 AM PST by cocknlock
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Mopp4
doinked? Is that a new name?
36 posted on 12/23/2001 7:28:05 AM PST by JIM O
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To: Mopp4
"Is this reflective of the way young people view life today?"

Yes.

...if you're an optimist.

37 posted on 12/23/2001 7:30:12 AM PST by Landru
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To: Mopp4
Is this reflective of the way young people view life today? I don't care that I will be missing out on the chance to lead a full life, just let me have sex before I go?

Short answer: Yes.

I hope to be able to elaborate later. I am getting ready for church now.

38 posted on 12/23/2001 7:31:33 AM PST by L.N. Smithee
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To: thathamiltonwoman
Who paid the prostitute I wonder?

Maybe it was "pro bono". That's what the other whores call it when they do it for free.

39 posted on 12/23/2001 7:33:33 AM PST by Doctor Raoul
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To: Mopp4
It must have been a very long time since you were 15 year old boy, or you're a girl. This is what I call compassion.
40 posted on 12/23/2001 7:35:27 AM PST by DaGman
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To: DWSUWF
This reminds me of an item that appeared in National Lampoon's "Time of the Month" almost 20 years ago. Of course, that time it was a joke and the fictional benefactors were the Make-a-Wish foundation and Victoria Principal.

I don't see what the big deal is about the kid wanting to get some before he goes. If you aren't a virgin now, you don't really have room to blame, do you?

41 posted on 12/23/2001 7:42:44 AM PST by TN Republican
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
With all the blue-nosed prigs running around, do you really have to ask why they kept it a secret from everyone?
42 posted on 12/23/2001 7:44:46 AM PST by TN Republican
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To: Mopp4
And here are a few remaining shocks:
  1. That his caregivers would be so clueless and Godless.
  2. That this is the boy's preparation for his first stop after death: the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27).
  3. That so many "conservative," "salt of the earth," "true blue American patriot," Clinton-despising FReepers are joining in praising the act and ridiculing folks who DO remember and respect the moral and ethical foundational framework within which America was built.
Dan
43 posted on 12/23/2001 7:49:51 AM PST by BibChr
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To: Mopp4
Sounds like a pretty lonely kid. I'm sure he felt pretty left out of things while he was sick all that time, most high school kids are too busy to visit those in the hospital. Maybe his illness went on a while and his parents were busy with other things. A prostitute doesn't care one iota for him ----she was in it for the money only.
44 posted on 12/23/2001 7:57:44 AM PST by FITZ
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To: youngjim
Just think what would be posted, if he had wanted a smoke and a drink.
45 posted on 12/23/2001 7:58:08 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: SeferKoheleth
>I find it both remarkable and disgusting all you so-called Christians snickering over this boy's alleged damnation.<

I am an old woman now. In my life, I have noticed that those who are the first and worst to condemn others are either jealous or self-conscious. It's people like that who have driven kids like Marilyn Manson away from Our Lord and into the hands of Satan! They will face a more dreaded punishment than some poor dying 15 year old kid who just wanted to "be a man" before he died.

Also, what people are ignoring is the instinctual urge to procreate when facing death. Studies have revealed that to be the reason why soldiers have been known to be guilty of rape throughout the centuries. I just imagine it is the same for those dying of disease.

Poor Kid. If he accepted Christ as his Personal Savior, I know that Jesus welcomed him with open arms!

46 posted on 12/23/2001 8:00:28 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: Mopp4
I am with you, I think it's pathetic. Shame on all those adults around him who encouraged and facilitated this request.
47 posted on 12/23/2001 8:11:02 AM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs
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To: SeferKoheleth
ah... a breath of fresh (and wise) air. but, wise one, you forgot a biggie. And that biggie was Samson. (Philistine-ladies man all the way.)

It seems some people dont take the time to read the "first half" of the Bible. If they did, they'd find out pretty quick how drastically much G-d "changed" His mind regarding the rules in just a day or two (according to the Psalmists interpretation of God's time line (ie, 'thousand years as but a day').

Oh well. Kind of reminds you of Daniel's (?) prophecy of a man who would attempt to 'change the seasons and the Law', doesn't it?

And whats with the Sixth Commandment mentioned above? I have them memorized and darnit', me thinks that the Sixth says "Do not Murder". Which would make alot more sense seeing how it is the first Commandment of the Second Tablet; which of course, correlates with the First Commandment of the First Tablet.

48 posted on 12/23/2001 8:15:26 AM PST by bigcheese
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Yeah, maybe they should have just told him to masterbate and the urge would go away? Would that have been an acceptable solution? Oh, yeah, maybe counseling. Yeah, that's the ticket! Or maybe Bible reading? Except the sexy parts like all that begetting stuff of course. Whata bunch of braindead hypos.
49 posted on 12/23/2001 8:17:15 AM PST by cocknlock
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To: Mopp4
What about this confuses you? If I had been terminally ill, I would have been doing my level best to get laid before I went. "You don't want to die a vigin" is a cliche for the reason that many things are cliche; they are so universally human.

Whether this is a real situation or a set-up by the psychiatrist, I'm all for the people who hired the hooker. I'd pay into _that_ "make a wish" foundation in a heartbeat.

50 posted on 12/23/2001 8:19:01 AM PST by Abn1508
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