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To: xzins
Just tacking on here.

Firstly thank you for the thread, as someone who sometimes struggles with such things and has arrived at my search rather late in life I find the questions and answers helpful.

But it raises a point that I've not been able to resolve nor have I found anyone who can.

If indeed Jesus died for our sins so that if we believe in him we will go to heaven when do we go to heaven? When we die?

I find this at odds with things like the various creeds that proclaim that Jesus will return to judge the living/quick and the dead/raise the dead (depending on the creed). If we're in heaven (or hell) who is going to be /judgedraised?

Any references, clarifications, discussions etc. would be greatly appreciated.

10 posted on 12/24/2001 9:14:55 AM PST by Proud_texan
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To: Proud_texan
I recommend you read C. S. Lewis for an easy read and insightful answer to these questions. Mere Christianity, Lewis's most popular book, is really three books in one: 1. "Right and Wrong as a Clue to the Meaning of the Universe," 2. "What Christians Believe," and 3. "Christian Behavior," all adapted from a series of radio lectures. The book's title comes from Lewis's attempt to strip Christianity of all that is nonessential, getting down to the "mere" basics of what it means to be a Christian.
12 posted on 12/24/2001 9:26:43 AM PST by cebadams
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To: Proud_texan
Try http://rbthieme.org/
14 posted on 12/24/2001 9:31:01 AM PST by jimkress
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To: Proud_texan
when do we go to heaven?

It's figurative. The Kingdom of Heaven is the issue. The 8 Beatitudes explain this to some degree.

15 posted on 12/24/2001 9:35:52 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: Proud_texan
Good questions...To be absent from the body is to be with the Lord...The modern "scholars" will tell you that the bible is inaccurate...So when you read the passages speaking of the Judgement seat of Christ as compared to the Great White Throne Judgement of God, you will be told they are the same thing...Oh, the gems that modern scholars don't get!!!When you die, your soul will immediately go to heaven (if you are a saved, born again Christian)...You will be a partaker of the great feast which is called the Marriage Supper of the Lamb...You will be what is called the Bride of Christ...

During the Great Tribulation, you will come back with Jesus as his army to fight against the un-Godly...And of course, you and Jesus will prevail, mightily...

When you get to heaven, you will be judged by Jesus on "what you did for Him as a Christian"...The Bible says that what you did on earth that didn't produce good for God, will be burned...What you did that was good, you will be rewarded for...

At the White Throne Judgement, everyone WILL confess that Jesus is Lord, before they are cast into outer darkness to the lake of fire....The two are not the same...

Many will disagree with what I just said...My only advice to you or anyone is, Don't let someone "educate" you out of the Bible...

20 posted on 12/24/2001 9:45:25 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Proud_texan
If indeed Jesus died for our sins so that if we believe in him we will go to heaven when do we go to heaven? When we die?

From what I can read in the Bible, Heaven exists (the Bible states that it does), but when we die we do not go directly to Heaven. We must all be judged first (Judgement Day), hence the Revelations scripture of raising the sleeping (dead) to be judged before the living and that Heaven is rebuilt.

22 posted on 12/24/2001 9:47:46 AM PST by wwjdn
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To: Proud_texan
If indeed Jesus died for our sins so that if we believe in him we will go to heaven when do we go to heaven? When we die?

Some believe that when we die, everyone sleeps until the final judgment, and then at that point those who are in Christ go to heaven.

Many believe that those who are in Christ go immediately to heaven upon their death--that's what I believe. There are a couple of proof texts that come to mind. One is Paul's statement regarding whether or not it is better to be alive and here on earth or present with the Lord (if someone has a Bible and knows the passage, you could clean up my paraphrase 'cause it's really awful). The other proof text that really convinces me is Jesus' declaration to the thief on the cross when he says, "Today you shall be with me in paradise."

-penny

23 posted on 12/24/2001 9:48:24 AM PST by Penny1
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To: Proud_texan
Hi Proud_texan

If you're a Christian (accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior) at the moment of your death you are in Heaven with Him.

You just don't have your physical flesh & bone (resurrected) body yet

39 posted on 12/24/2001 11:35:06 AM PST by Ready2go
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