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School apologizes for burning New Testament
Jersualem Post ^ | December 25, 2001 | Shoshana Kordova

Posted on 12/24/2001 4:49:53 PM PST by dlt

BEIT SHEMESH (December 25) - The organization that administers Orot school in Beit Shemesh issued an apology yesterday for publicly burning a copy of the New Testament a student received from Christian missionaries.

"Everybody knows we made a mistake," said Jordana Klein, spokeswoman for Sha'alei Torah. "We wouldn't do it again. We don't think it's the right thing to do."

The book-burning took place in the school courtyard the week before Hanukka, after a teacher in the boys' school found that one of his sixth-grade students had brought in a Hebrew copy of the New Testament.

The student received it from local missionaries who, according to Klein, have been active in proselytizing Beit Shemesh children.

"The teacher said: 'God sent it and He gave us the privilege, and we'll be able to burn the New Testament," said Ariel Lesnick, 11, who is in the class.

The teacher consulted with the principal, Rabbi Yair Bachar, said Klein. After receiving approval, the teacher - whose name Klein refused to divulge - took his class outside.

Then, Lesnick said, "We took a few sticks and we burnt it." The teacher emphasized that the book-burning was an anti-missionary activity and not an anti-Christian one, Lesnick said.

After receiving calls from angry parents, Bachar reconsidered the decision, which Klein described as "too hasty." He consulted rabbinic authorities on the issue and decided to appoint Rabbi David Spector - rabbi of the Givat Sharet neighborhood of Beit Shemesh - as a permanent rabbinic decision-maker for the school.

Spector ruled that missionary material should be burned, but it is the sole responsibility of the owner to burn it and the burning should take place in private.

"It was appropriate to burn the New Testament in private," wrote Spector in his ruling. He cited traditional and modern rabbis, including Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, who wrote that he had burned missionary texts, which he called "books of incitement and brainwashing." Such burning is permissible even if the texts include the name of God, Spector said.

The teacher said that if missionary material were found in the school again, it would be thrown into the garbage rather than publicly burned, said Lesnick.

The Education Ministry was not aware of the incident, said spokeswoman Orit Reuveni.

"In principle, the ministry condemns book-burning as an educational act," she said. "We are not aware of this incident, but we will investigate the matter in depth."

Wayne Firestone, director of the Anti-Defamation League here, said the apology is a positive reaction to the school's "inappropriate" decision.

"The issue of conversion obviously is a sensitive one, and school officials are entitled to make requirements to try to protect their students from inappropriate materials entering the school," he said.

"At the same time, the symbolic and actual imagery of burning any books is really an inappropriate reaction to any offensive material. We're encouraged to hear that the school has issued an apology, and we hope that from the apology, they can send a better message to their own students about tolerance of other religions."

Since the burning, Bachar has addressed teachers, parents, and students - particularly the sixth-grade class - about the issue. He emphasized that the school is not against Christians but against Christian attempts to convert Jews, said Klein. The school is also planning programs to increase tolerance, she said.

The student who brought the New Testament in is not the only one missionaries have targeted. After the book-burning, one of the other students in the class said missionaries came to his home and hung a crucifix behind the mezuza, said Lesnick. The family told the missionary they didn't want the crucifix and returned it, he said.

"We obviously have a missionary problem," said Klein. "We weren't even aware of how big a problem it is in our school."

The students that missionaries approach are generally among the native Israelis and immigrants who make up about 40 percent of the student body and tend to live in old Beit Shemesh, said Klein. That section is poorer than the newer section populated mostly by Anglos, who comprise 60 percent of the student body.

The Anglo-Israeli divide may have contributed to a difference in the approach to burning the New Testament. Lesnick, whose family immigrated from New Jersey four years ago, saw that distinction among the boys in his class. "The Israelis thought it was the right thing to do, but for the Americans, you're used to seeing [non-Jews] every day, and you don't do that to somebody that's just a little different than you," he said.

His father, Marc, also noted the difference nationality may have made in the decision. The teacher, he said, is an Israeli who has never left the country. But as an American, he said, "This is not the type of education I want my kids to have. In America, they let you practice your religion, you let them practice their religion, and you kind of coexist."

Book-burning may also invoke different images for Anglos than for Israelis. "The idea of burning in general in our minds has to do with Kristallnacht and the KKK and so on," he said.

But once he brought the issue to the attention of the school, said Marc Lesnick, it "very quickly took the matter really seriously and dealt with it properly afterward."

Lesnick found out about the burning when Ariel came home from school. "My son got home from school that night, and he actually said to me, 'Dad, you know what we did today? Well, we burned the New Testament.' I said, 'You're joking,'" said Lesnick.

He discussed it with the teacher, and a few days later Bachar came to his home to talk about the incident. Lesnick is glad that they have told him they would "definitely not do this again."

Rev. Ray Lockhart, director of the Jerusalem-based Israel Trust of the Anglican Church, said burning the New Testament so publicly was "going over the top somewhat." Lockhart, whose organization focuses on ministry to the Jews, added that it's preferable to get a signed statement from parents before giving Christian scriptures to a minor.

"Clearly no Jewish person would want to see the Tanah being burnt, and would feel that whoever did it, it was an affront to their beliefs," he said.

But the school's apology, said Lockhart, mitigates the offense. "I think it shows that it's sometimes good to have second thoughts, and to recognize that we can all make mistakes in the way we make a response off the cuff without really thinking through all the implications."


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To: BrooklynGOP
So what you are basically saying is that Christians won't drop it till everyone on the planet is a Christian? Is that the argument you are setting up?

Yes. But I'm not setting it up, they are. There are, of course, some Christian groups which do not evangelize or some which stress it more than others but missionary work is an essential part of the Christian faith. Those, such as the teacher in this article, who try to separate Christians from Christian missionary work are telling Christians not to practice a basic part of their faith.

We all know what the real case is: This teacher doesn't want Christians doing what Christians do. Fine and good. But at least she could be honest about it.

51 posted on 12/24/2001 7:44:19 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: BrooklynGOP
Yes, and did Islam NOT spring from Judeaism? The three major religions all trace their origins back to Abraham. So why is Islam NOT included in 'The Book' if its all about origins?
52 posted on 12/24/2001 7:45:47 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
A mistake? A mistake would be accidentally dropping the flame from your cigarette onto the pages of the New Testament.

No that would not be a mistake, that would be an ACCIDENT. I do not think that this is a difficult concept for one to pick up. A mistake is when you do something deliberately, than decide that it was the wrong thing to do. As in this situation.

53 posted on 12/24/2001 7:46:54 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Yes, and did Islam NOT spring from Judeaism? The three major religions all trace their origins back to Abraham. So why is Islam NOT included in 'The Book' if its all about origins

Why do I care? If you want to try to teach Christianity without the Torah, go ahead. I don't care about that either. Leave me to my Judaism, and you can believe whatever you want to believe.

54 posted on 12/24/2001 7:47:54 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Christians such as you always seem to forget that Christianity comes out of Judaism. You celebrate tonight the birth of a Jew. It it how you interpret our beliefs that allows you to determine that this Jew was special.

Judaism stands on its own. Christianity can not stand but for Judaism. Islam plagiarizes both.

55 posted on 12/24/2001 7:47:58 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: dlt
Also, please check out and feel free to add comments on a very heart-warming and poignant Christmas tale with a moral at: "Saving The Christ-Child"
56 posted on 12/24/2001 7:47:58 PM PST by Dr. Good Will Hunting
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Judaism regards Christianity as a heresy of Judaism, when they acknowledge that much of a connection

Judaism regards Jesus as a heresy regardless of Mohammad, Islam or Arabs. They weren't burning the Qa'ran.

57 posted on 12/24/2001 7:54:20 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Judaism regards Christianity as a heresy of Judaism, when they acknowledge that much of a connection

Judaism regards Jesus as a heresy regardless of Mohammad, Islam or Arabs. They weren't burning the Qa'ran.

58 posted on 12/24/2001 7:56:06 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Judaism regards Jesus as a heresy

Actually they regard Jesus as a heretic, which as they see the nature of God, he was.

59 posted on 12/24/2001 8:02:13 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Sabramerican
Christians such as you always seem to forget that Christianity comes out of Judaism. You celebrate tonight the birth of a Jew. It it how you interpret our beliefs that allows you to determine that this Jew was special. Judaism stands on its own. Christianity can not stand but for Judaism. Islam plagiarizes both.

This is not the time or place for a discussion of this but I believe that Christianity is a branch of Judaism, historically speaking. Obviously this can only be the case if you take the position that Paul took with James (the brother of Jesus), that certain requirements of Judaism as it existed up till then were inessential.

As we all know, Judaism had a wide range of opinions during the first century. The positions of those who exalted the Sacrifice at the Temple as the heart of Judaism clearly does not have much of a following now. Modern Judaism is descended from Rabbinical Judaism, which started to flourish shortly before the period. Those who were Pharisees clearly divided, with many continuing as Jews, others becoming Christian.

Of course by the beginning of the 2nd century Gentiles started to dominate the Christian church, and Christians ceased attending services at the more tolerant Jewish congregations. As we know, the Romans, who in their own way were non-partisan in this dispute, considered Christianity to be a form of Judaism for more than a century.

I realize that this is off topic, and probably pleases nobody here, but it might be worth a discussion sometime, somewhere. Obviously the major division between Jews and Christians is the question of the nature of the Messiah, and, more directly, is his coming a future, or a past event.

60 posted on 12/24/2001 8:16:25 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Sabramerican
You celebrate tonight the birth of a Jew. ...who came with a lesson for wayward Jews, most of whom rejected both him and the lesson, making him a persona non grata and his lesson 'heresy'. I have no dog in this race, except to say, the nazi book burners haven't ever really gone away ... they just changed their shirts and usually settled for simply banning books, or at least so I thought until I read this article. Guess I was wrong about that, too.
61 posted on 12/24/2001 8:19:01 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Sorry, but your analogy simply fails. I clearly remember you from other threads...
62 posted on 12/24/2001 8:28:49 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
your analogy simply fails.

Care to be a little more specific? (BTW, I remember you too).

63 posted on 12/24/2001 8:35:12 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: BrooklynGOP;Ridin' Shotgun
Sorry, but your analogy simply fails. I clearly remember you from other threads..

I understand that carrying flame wars between threads is a no-no, not that I am not tempted myself.

64 posted on 12/24/2001 8:48:47 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Bump
65 posted on 12/24/2001 8:55:42 PM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Is that supposed to mean we can only post on one thread per ... how often can we switch threads, Lucius? Once a day, once a month, once a year ... How often? Must've missed it in the rule book.
66 posted on 12/24/2001 8:59:15 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
No flames. ridin' shotgun has a certain agenda, that's all.
67 posted on 12/24/2001 8:59:21 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
No flames. ridin' shotgun has a certain agenda, that's all.

So did Julius Streicher.

68 posted on 12/24/2001 9:07:55 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: BrooklynGOP
...and that agenda would be? I was shocked. I tell you SHOCKED, to learn that Jewish teachers in Israel would actually burn the New Testament in front of their students and still expect Christians in America, who hold that testament sacred, to tithe to the state of Israel. Akin to paying the Democrats to burn the Bill of Rights.
69 posted on 12/24/2001 9:08:22 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: BrooklynGOP
I said exactly what I meant, and the Jews didn't throw the Bible in the garbage, they burned it, in front of a class of children. Don't deny it.
70 posted on 12/24/2001 9:20:38 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Now THAT is the pot calling the kettle black. I'm embarrassed to admit that I had to do a search to discover who this person that you equate me to, even WAS. You are apparently up on your nazi history much more so, than I.
71 posted on 12/24/2001 9:23:36 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
I don't expect Indonesian Muslims to "apologize" for murdering Christians, I believe they should be stopped with all necessary force. On the other hand, we don't pay Indonesian muslims billions of dollars a year to be our "allies".
72 posted on 12/24/2001 9:26:32 PM PST by ozzymandus
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Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

To: SickOfItAll
As I resident of Palm Beach County, Florida, I found the statement amusing too.
74 posted on 12/24/2001 9:34:45 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: BrooklynGOP
Wanna run that 'analogy' thingy by me again? In what way, pray tell, did I fail your litmus test this time?
75 posted on 12/24/2001 9:35:30 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: BrooklynGOP
Wanna run that 'analogy' thingy by me again? In what way, pray tell, did I fail your litmus test of applicable analogies this time?
76 posted on 12/24/2001 9:38:56 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: BrooklynGOP
Sorry about the duplicate posts. This blasted machine keeps shutting me down and then doing everything it DOES do, twice. Grrrrr.
77 posted on 12/24/2001 9:42:03 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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Comment #78 Removed by Moderator

To: SickOfItAll
Are you serious, I don't have anything against Jews but that statement is ridiculous.

I believe that the poster you were referring to meant that Jews do not proselytize, and do not want to be proselytized. I suspect that you may be equating 'Jews' with 'Israelis', or possibly thinking of some other context. If anyone here has ever been approached by a Jewish person trying to persuade them to convert to Judaism, I would be most surprised, and interested to hear the details.

79 posted on 12/24/2001 9:46:17 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
A mistake is when you do something deliberately, than decide that it was the wrong thing to do. As in this situation.

No. Their actions went far beyond any "mistake". Their actions were wrong and reprehensible. I happen to be strongly pro-Israel. Israel has the right to exist and defend itself. But the actions of those particular Jews was abominable.

80 posted on 12/24/2001 9:55:36 PM PST by Robert-J
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
So you are comparing the New Testament to the communist manifesto. You are displaying why libertarians have earned so much contempt.
81 posted on 12/24/2001 9:56:54 PM PST by Robert-J
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To: Robert-J
I made no such comparison.
You have demonstrated the Christian Right propensity to jump to conclusions and cry persecution at the drop of a hat.
82 posted on 12/24/2001 10:03:06 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: dlt
Everybody knows we made a mistake...........

They'll pay an eternal price for that little error in judgement .

83 posted on 12/24/2001 10:04:31 PM PST by Squantos
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
The Reform congregation in South Florida and probably elsewhere has been very active in trying to defund the Boy Scouts and ban them from public schools because of the Scout's stance on homosexuality. That may not be converting people to their faith but it sure is a form of proselytizing. Not just Jews are involved, the Unitarians (my faith) are active in this jihad against the Scouts too.
85 posted on 12/24/2001 10:13:12 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: Robert-J
Why is it that people like to call themselves Christian and then look for offense so that they can launch an attack and demonstrate their lack of Christian-spirit?
86 posted on 12/24/2001 10:14:30 PM PST by Free the USA
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
You did too make such a comparison. I read it. Does libertarianism justify lying?
87 posted on 12/24/2001 10:14:56 PM PST by Robert-J
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To: Robert-J
But the actions of those particular Jews was abominable.

More so than the actions of the islamists in Indonesia? This was a seriously incorrect decision on the part of the folks at this school, one for which they have apologized. You seem to be blowing this totally out of proportion.

88 posted on 12/24/2001 10:15:14 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Free the USA
You comments make no sense. The burning of the New Testament is a truly offensive act. Indignation is the proper response.
89 posted on 12/24/2001 10:15:57 PM PST by Robert-J
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
More so than the actions of the islamicists. Don't be silly. I stronly oppose anti-Semitism. But on the other hand, I have no tolerance for anti-Christian bigotry on the part of Jews.
90 posted on 12/24/2001 10:17:21 PM PST by Robert-J
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To: Squantos
They'll pay an eternal price for that little error in judgement.

If you are referring to these particular Jews, how do you intend to collect? If you are referring to Jews as a group, I think they paid that price, if you will, in Germany, in the 1940's.

91 posted on 12/24/2001 10:17:41 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: LarryLied
Reform congregation

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Jews as a religion, and you bring up a group that generally does not follow that religion. Of course, I tend to be skeptical of the Christianity of many Unitarians also.

92 posted on 12/24/2001 10:21:26 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
What are you taking about ? Can you read, are you drunk or just an idiot trying to stir crap with your lies ? I don't, nor do you ,...."collect" for sins. As I don't care what religion they are or aren't ,....Jews or not.... and the perception or reality of being wronged doesn't justify burning a bible.

You seem to make a lot of assumptions here that suggest I want to make em pay per se or dislike jews in some manner. Don't involve me in your make believe dilusional BS story bucko.

93 posted on 12/24/2001 10:28:23 PM PST by Squantos
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Squantos is referring to eternal hell. Therefore, your comment of "how do you intend to collect?" makes no sense.

I happen not to suscribe to the doctrine of eternal damnation. As such, I do not believe that hell is their fate for the stupid and offensive action of burning the New Testament. But one thing the Jews of Israel should realize, is that American evangelical Christians are their most powerful supporters. Many evangelical Christians are more fervent in their support of Israel than many of America's secular minded Jews. Therefore, to antagonize American Christians is incredibly stupid and bone headed action.

94 posted on 12/24/2001 10:30:07 PM PST by Robert-J
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To: Robert-J
Therefore, to antagonize American Christians is incredibly stupid and bone headed action.

Agreed. And they apologized, and they took steps to see that it would not happen again. So what do you want now?

95 posted on 12/24/2001 10:51:09 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Squantos
As a "Christian" you have an interesting idea of Christian love and forgiveness, and on Christmas Day too! Shame on you!
96 posted on 12/24/2001 10:54:47 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Squantos
and the perception or reality of being wronged doesn't justify burning a bible.

No, you're right. By the precepts of their religion, they should have thrown it in the garbage. It would have been sinful to them to allow it to remain.

97 posted on 12/24/2001 10:57:20 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: LarryLied
What was impressive about this article was the fact that Jews from America protested the book-burning - - - again showing that a pluralist country (ie America) is where religion of all kinds develops in the most healthy way. Competition between faiths forces them to accent their positive features. Living side by side minimizes the temptation to arrogance and hostility toward other religions. Such arrogance is more likely in a setting where your religion is the only one or the dominant one. So Jews from American are more tolerant of other religions; as is true, I believe, of Catholics from America (as compared with Catholics from, say, some South American country where Catholicism enjoys a monopoly); ditto for other denominations and communions as well.
98 posted on 12/25/2001 1:37:52 AM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
Yes, great tolerance in America. The tactic of choice here is to sue to repress the Christian faith, not burn the New Testament. Oh well, it is progress I guess.
99 posted on 12/25/2001 5:51:03 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: SickOfItAll
Can you even fathom what would happen if a teacher in a Christian school took a class outside and burned the Talmud.

In fairness, SickOfItAll, I believe that if a Jewish schoolteacher in the U.S. burned a New Testament or Koran in front of students, American Jews would the the first to condemn it and they would do so forcefully. IMHO, it is no coincidence that the complaining Israeli parent in this story was an American Jew who immigrated to Israel.

For me, the point of this story is that Israel does not really share the values of the U.S., as most Americans believe. I do not necessarily criticize Israel for this, because Israel is in a war enviornment. However, I do think that most Americans -- including most Jewish Americans -- have a very inaccurate idea of what what actually goes on over there.

100 posted on 12/25/2001 9:02:26 AM PST by dlt
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