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School apologizes for burning New Testament
Jersualem Post ^ | December 25, 2001 | Shoshana Kordova

Posted on 12/24/2001 4:49:53 PM PST by dlt

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To: LarryLied, Sabramerican
I wouldn't dismiss it simply as a "stupid thing". While that was really stupid to do in terms of relationship with the Christians, the sentiment, I think, is genuine.

Consider this

Appreciates piece on Chanukah


POSTED: Dec. 21, 2001 4:51 p.m.

Thanks for the article, "WNC's small Jewish community to celebrate festival of lights," (AC-T, Dec. 8) about Chanukah. Thanks so much for taking time out to highlight this important holiday for our Jewish community. Perhaps, in the future, you might want to re-word dates when talking about a Jewish event. The Maccabee revolt happened in 165 B.C.E. (Before Common Era) to those it matters most to; saying 165 B.C. (Before Christ) is a bit of a smack in the face.

Jeremy Russom,

Asheville

101 posted on 12/25/2001 9:02:58 AM PST by madrussian
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
...and that agenda would be? I was shocked. I tell you SHOCKED, to learn that Jewish teachers in Israel would actually burn the New Testament in front of their students...

Teachers? Plural? Are you ready to present us with another case where this has happened? I thought so. There's your agenda.

102 posted on 12/25/2001 9:20:33 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: ozzymandus
said exactly what I meant, and the Jews didn't throw the Bible in the garbage, they burned it, in front of a class of children. Don't deny it.

Uh. I made a hypothetical case. You replied to it as if my hypothetical case was about burning the new testament. Read again.

103 posted on 12/25/2001 9:21:49 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: SickOfItAll
Are you serious, I don't have anything against Jews but that statement is ridiculous.

Oh, right. I forgot. Throughout history Jews didn't rest, but converted anyone and everyone they could find to Judaism. /sarcasm.

104 posted on 12/25/2001 9:23:22 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: LarryLied
As I resident of Palm Beach County, Florida, I found the statement amusing too.

Democrats using eldrely Jews for their own causes has nothing to do with Judaism the religion. But you already knew that.

105 posted on 12/25/2001 9:24:07 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: SickOfItAll
No, I agree, that would never happen, I don't think. I wasn't referring to that.

Then you agree that your post was out of context.

106 posted on 12/25/2001 9:26:04 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
If you are referring to these particular Jews, how do you intend to collect? If you are referring to Jews as a group, I think they paid that price, if you will, in Germany, in the 1940's.

Why 1940's? What about everything else before that? The problem with holocaust is that people spend so much time on it, that it basically wipes any history that Jews had prior to that.

107 posted on 12/25/2001 9:27:47 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
What's wrong with that? They taught us in college the same thing.. That before current era might be used instead of before christ..
108 posted on 12/25/2001 9:30:46 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
Is there a difference between "might be" and "must be"?

Thanks for confirming how you sympathize with the de-Christionizing forces in America.

109 posted on 12/25/2001 9:33:50 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
Is there a difference between "might be" and "must be"?

My english might be a little rusty. But I believe that "might" means that something is optional, and "must" is something that's required. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks for confirming how you sympathize with the de-Christionizing forces in America.

Oh I see. So now I am getting blamed for something that a Christian teacher taught me in college? Yay, blame the Jews.

110 posted on 12/25/2001 9:40:28 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
Are you being disenginuous, again?

The "must be" sentiment is in the letter to which you replied "what's wrong with might be?"

111 posted on 12/25/2001 9:43:50 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian;brooklyn
The BC/BCE thing is really about being politically correct, which I think has gotten out of hand. If we refer to a Muslim event, should we refer to Muslim calendar notations? If we refer to a Chinese event, should we refer to the Chinese calendar notations?

I vigorously support freedom of regligion and strong separation of church and state, but "BC" is the traditional American way of dating events when we talk about history in our country. Where does it stop, if we try to accommodate every ethnic group which makes up our country?

112 posted on 12/25/2001 9:49:00 AM PST by dlt
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To: madrussian
The "must be" sentiment is in the letter to which you replied "what's wrong with might be?"

Since you have trouble quoting, I'll do it for you:

What's wrong with that? They taught us in college the same thing.. That before current era might be used instead of before christ..

And since you have trouble comprehending I'll explain it to you to. I expressed my lack of surprise at your post, because the CE/BCE business is not specific to Jews or whatever - it was even taught to me in college ( I went to a state univ of NY @ Albany) by a non Jew in a non religious class. That if we come across CE/BCE, it means this n that. I am not sure why you are trying to make more of it then it is... Misquoting me and etc, and I am sure it would be a lot of fun to speculate as to why... But I guess I am not a fun loving guy, like you are. I'll leave all the speculating to you and your friends.

113 posted on 12/25/2001 9:49:04 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
The letter said:

The Maccabee revolt happened in 165 B.C.E. (Before Common Era) to those it matters most to; saying 165 B.C. (Before Christ) is a bit of a smack in the face.

You wrote:

What's wrong with that?

And then some irrelevant stuff about how they can be interchanged.

Talk about playing dumb. Or are you playing, at all?

114 posted on 12/25/2001 10:00:20 AM PST by madrussian
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To: dlt
The BC/BCE thing is really about being politically correct, which I think has gotten out of hand. If we refer to a Muslim event, should we refer to Muslim calendar notations? If we refer to a Chinese event, should we refer to the Chinese calendar notations?

Of course not. But, apparently, any reference to Jesus Christ is insulting to many Jews. Can't allow that, can we?

115 posted on 12/25/2001 10:02:15 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
What's wrong with that? And then some irrelevant stuff about how they can be interchanged.

I was referring to the whole BC/BCE concept. What's more I even mentioned that it was taught to me in college, just so you would know that I wasn't discussing this _particular_ case.

116 posted on 12/25/2001 10:24:02 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
The BC/BCE thing is really about being politically correct, which I think has gotten out of hand. If we refer to a Muslim event, should we refer to Muslim calendar notations? If we refer to a Chinese event, should we refer to the Chinese calendar notations?

Of course not. But, apparently, any reference to Jesus Christ is insulting to many Jews. Can't allow that, can we?

Huh? So Jews are the sole reason that CE/BCE thing came about? It wasn't the atheists? Muslims? Hindus? Budhists? etc.etc.etc. Right away its Jews.. Yay, blame the Jews! Bei zhidov, spasai Rossiu?

117 posted on 12/25/2001 10:25:41 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
I was referring to the whole BC/BCE concept.

If you were refering to the concept, you certainly didn't spend any effort to mention that you weren't refering to the letter when you wrote "What's wrong with that?", to which you responded.

118 posted on 12/25/2001 10:29:25 AM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
Huh? So Jews are the sole reason that CE/BCE thing came about? It wasn't the atheists? Muslims? Hindus? Budhists?

Now you are grasping.

etc.etc.etc. Right away its Jews.. Yay, blame the Jews! Bei zhidov, spasai Rossiu?

Whine, whine, whine.

119 posted on 12/25/2001 10:31:08 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
Hmmmm... Seems like we are using BCE/CE and you didn't even know about it (blame the Jews!!!):

The Common Era Choice Explained

The reason that the timeline uses the common era dating system is simple, it's accurate.

For those who are not sure what CE and BCE means, it's simple. BCE stands for Before Common Era, which is every year before the year 0. After the year 0 is the Common Era, or CE.

I know many are saying "before 0 is BC, and after 0 is AD". But that is actually wrong, the origin of Common Era is not a plot to take Christ out of the calendar, but is really a way to keep him in. The BC/AD system came into play before the actual date of Christ's birth was known. Due to the fact that Jesus was not born in the year 0, as previously thought there were two options. Change what year we were in at the time of discovery by 6 years, or create the Common Era system.

Because AD is "the year of our lord", that would make 1 AD, actually 5 years before the year 0. So as I type this it is the year 2000 CE, or 2006 AD.

I opted for the CE dating system because if I went with AD things that happened recently would be marked in the wrong year. Such as Adolf Hiler would have been in poer from 1941-1951 AD, or Columbus would have crossed the Atlantic in 1498 AD. I felt this would have only made the timeline confusing and appear erroneous.
120 posted on 12/25/2001 10:31:18 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
Huh? So Jews are the sole reason that CE/BCE thing came about? It wasn't the atheists? Muslims? Hindus? Budhists?

Now you are grasping.

Grasping? But, why, ofcource.. How can you not blame the Jews? Keep whining.. People like you whine and look for others to blame for whatever goes wrong in the world.

121 posted on 12/25/2001 10:32:32 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: dlt
I was told that Christian missionaries are not allowed to proselyte in Israel. In fact, they are not supposed to give away New Testaments or tracts either. How could this have happened, if such things are prohibited by law? Is the Jewish religion "protected" by their constitution or not? Help me out here, you Jewish scholars..
122 posted on 12/25/2001 10:41:04 AM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: madrussian
I think this is an isolated incident. Let us hope we are not headed back to what happened to Christians in the Ukraine in early 1930's.
123 posted on 12/25/2001 10:41:36 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: BrooklynGOP
How can you not blame the Jews?

You didn't exactly deny that many of your coreligionists feel offended by Christian references. But don't let that prevent you from posturing here.

People like you whine and look for others to blame for whatever goes wrong in the world.

Hmm, you just described yourself perfectly.

124 posted on 12/25/2001 10:42:14 AM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
But that is actually wrong, the origin of Common Era is not a plot to take Christ out of the calendar, but is really a way to keep him in.

Freedom is slavery, War is Peace.

Your trying to avoid the issue of using BC/AD as insulting to Jews is obvious.

125 posted on 12/25/2001 10:45:18 AM PST by madrussian
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To: LarryLied
I think this is an isolated incident. Let us hope we are not headed back to what happened to Christians in the Ukraine in early 1930's.

To me, what's important and revealing is the sentiment.

126 posted on 12/25/2001 10:46:44 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
You didn't exactly deny that many of your coreligionists feel offended by Christian references. But don't let that prevent you from posturing here.

You have't provided proof to the above statement.

Hmm, you just described yourself perfectly.

Oh? I remember growing up in Ukraine.. Jews were blamed for the poor treatment of workers/peasants before revolution...(no wonder millions of them fled to America early 20th century!) Jewish woman shot Lenin.. Capitalism/zionism is the natural enemy of communism.. The reason why we still haven't reached communism is the Jews, etc,etc... Now that communism isn't cool anymore, comes out that all communists were Jews, and that even Lenin was supposedly partly Jewish! Cool! Blame the Jews! Whine..whine.. whine..

127 posted on 12/25/2001 10:49:37 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
Your trying to avoid the issue of using BC/AD as insulting to Jews is obvious.

What are you talking about. The fact that I use BCE/CE on daily basis (and so do you) meets this issue head on.

128 posted on 12/25/2001 10:50:50 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
To me, what's important and revealing is the sentiment.

Oh, because of an isolated incident which was condemned by everybodyyou are going to attribute it to all the Jews? Well, it was done for thousands of years, and most of the time there was no need to even have an isolated incident.... Why stop now? Blame the Jews!

129 posted on 12/25/2001 10:52:33 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
You have't provided proof to the above statement.

Both the article and the letter that I posted provide AT LEAST cosiderable evidence. Are you religious at all?

Oh? I remember growing up in Ukraine.. Jews were blamed for the poor treatment of workers/peasants before revolution...(no wonder millions of them fled to America early 20th century!) Jewish woman shot Lenin.. Capitalism/zionism is the natural enemy of communism.. The reason why we still haven't reached communism is the Jews, etc,etc... Now that communism isn't cool anymore, comes out that all communists were Jews, and that even Lenin was supposedly partly Jewish! Cool! Blame the Jews! Whine..whine.. whine..

You, as a person, had little to do with what happened in the past, true. But you are quick to dismiss history just because you don't like the facts. (and yes, Lenin was quarter Jewish, not that it matters much).

130 posted on 12/25/2001 11:17:25 AM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
Oh, because of an isolated incident which was condemned by everybodyyou are going to attribute it to all the Jews?

The act was condemned, the sentiment is there. Deny, deny, deny.

Well, it was done for thousands of years, and most of the time there was no need to even have an isolated incident....

Whine, whine, whine.

131 posted on 12/25/2001 11:19:11 AM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
What are you talking about.

Playing dumb, or being dumb?

Take a walk in Brighton Beach, get some fresh air, eat some "kopchenaya kolbasa".

132 posted on 12/25/2001 11:21:36 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
Both the article and the letter that I posted provide AT LEAST cosiderable evidence. Are you religious at all?

Considerable evidence? As to what? That this particular teacher, in this particular school burned new testament and there was a great public outcry? I am not denying that. However, you trying to attribute that this is the policy/view of all Jews, is ridicilous. As I said before. Let us practice our own religion, and we don't care who you worship. You, as a person, had little to do with what happened in the past, true. But you are quick to dismiss history just because you don't like the facts. (and yes, Lenin was quarter Jewish, not that it matters much).

Ok. Please continue.. What exactly am I dismissing and which facts am I not liking? The only thing I am not liking is you trying to attribute this isolated incident to all Jews. As for Lenin being quarter Jewish.. well funny how those allegations didn't come about till AFTER the communism stopped being cool.

133 posted on 12/25/2001 11:24:39 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
What are you talking about. The fact that I use BCE/CE on daily basis (and so do you) meets this issue head on

For "some" reason you only quoted half of this. So I'll quote the whole thing for you.. Still havent' mastered the art of cut and paste? Interesting how you decided to change the topic real quick.

Take a walk in Brighton Beach, get some fresh air, eat some "kopchenaya kolbasa".

Aaah. Wonderful. So at first Jews are bad because of their supposed beliefs and attempts to put Christians down, and now you are implying that Jews are just not Jewish enough. As for my personal Judaism. I try to keep kosher. I am not goign to lie that I have never had pepperoni pizza. But I am not into "kopchenaya kolbasa" and all that stuff. Pastrami is kosher, and I love it. Thanks for inquiring.

134 posted on 12/25/2001 11:28:32 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
Considerable evidence? As to what? That this particular teacher, in this particular school burned new testament and there was a great public outcry?

Damage control. Not a good story to come out. Now comment on the letter about "smack in the face".

I am not denying that. However, you trying to attribute that this is the policy/view of all Jews, is ridicilous.

Burning the New Testament is not the policy/vew of all Jews, and is not a Jewish policy at all. You adopted the Middle Eastern bazaar trader mode again, with your incomprehension and wild accusations.

As I said before. Let us practice our own religion, and we don't care who you worship.

Hey, likewise. Don't just try to remove symbols of this historically Christian European country that's offensive to your religion.

Ok. Please continue.. What exactly am I dismissing and which facts am I not liking?

For example, the Jewish involvemnt in the Bolshevik revolution.

The only thing I am not liking is you trying to attribute this isolated incident to all Jews.

I am trying to point out that hostility to Christianity is a wide-spread phenomenon, both among religious and atheistic Jews.

As for Lenin being quarter Jewish.. well funny how those allegations didn't come about till AFTER the communism stopped being cool.

Those aren't allegations but facts. Remember, the commies were internationalists and the ethnicity didn't matter.

135 posted on 12/25/2001 11:45:06 AM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
For "some" reason you only quoted half of this.

Second half doesn't make any sense at all. You are using BCE/CE and that proves what?

Aaah. Wonderful. So at first Jews are bad because of their supposed beliefs and attempts to put Christians down, and now you are implying that Jews are just not Jewish enough. As for my personal Judaism. I try to keep kosher. I am not goign to lie that I have never had pepperoni pizza. But I am not into "kopchenaya kolbasa" and all that stuff. Pastrami is kosher, and I love it. Thanks for inquiring.

It was obvious that you are not very religious, with you growing up in Ukraine and all. The degree of your religiousness doesn't matter to me. Atheistic Jews are anti-Christian enough.

136 posted on 12/25/2001 11:48:32 AM PST by madrussian
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To: madrussian
Damage control. Not a good story to come out. Now comment on the letter about "smack in the face".

If the guy chooses not to use BC/AD, that's his business. Do you want me to force him? Do you want me to comment on every Jew? Look at the history, and look at the people as a whole. For example. Jihad/Terrorism in Muslims world is not an isolated incident. This is.

Burning the New Testament is not the policy/vew of all Jews, and is not a Jewish policy at all.

Good. We agree. Then why are we still on this?

Hey, likewise. Don't just try to remove symbols of this historically Christian European country that's offensive to your religion.

I wasn't aware that there was a movement amongst Jews to take out symbols out of this "historically Christian...". By the way, while most of the first americans were Christians, if I recall correctly, freedom of speech and religion were the first values as well. As for Judaism, nothing is offensive to our religion, other then others not letting us practice is.

For example, the Jewish involvemnt in the Bolshevik revolution.

I suspect that by this you mean that there were Jews amongst Bolsheviks? Sure, I don't deny it. Do you deny the russian involvement in the Bolshevik revolution?? Do you deny the Jewish involvement in the shaping of the capitalism system?

I am trying to point out that hostility to Christianity is a wide-spread phenomenon, both among religious and atheistic Jews.

Yes. You have been trying for a while now, yet I don't see any other examples other then isolated incident that you brought about here.

Those aren't allegations but facts. Remember, the commies were internationalists and the ethnicity didn't matter.

Now, you are the one acting like you are at a middle eastern bazaar. Internationalists? In theory? maybe. In practice? It said "Jew" in Jews' soviet passports. What's more, my father had to divorce my mom for 1 day, so they can remarry under her name so he could actually get into college (the dean told him flat out, that they are accepting any more of "his kind" that year).

137 posted on 12/25/2001 11:54:45 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
I've read enough about Jews burning Bibles. Merry Christmas.
138 posted on 12/25/2001 11:58:07 AM PST by ozzymandus
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To: madrussian
Second half doesn't make any sense at all. You are using BCE/CE and that proves what?

Proves that I accept it. You are one who was asking me for my views on the dating systems.

It was obvious that you are not very religious, with you growing up in Ukraine and all.

Right. There were no functioning temples in Odessa (but plenty of churches. My mother walked me into one when I was about 7 to show me how people worship and how beautiful the art is).

The degree of your religiousness doesn't matter to me.

If it didn't, you wouldn't have brought it up. But you did.

Atheistic Jews are anti-Christian enough.

Interesting. So Jews are just hateful of Christians because of their genes? Very interesting. Weren't you the one arguing that a Jew is a religion, not an ethnicity? You people spin this so much, you get caught up in your own contradictions. Do you believe that the Zion protocols are true?

139 posted on 12/25/2001 11:58:41 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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Comment #140 Removed by Moderator

To: ozzymandus
I've read enough about Jews burning Bibles. Merry Christmas.

It was 1 Jew. You are using plural. But facts don't matter to you. Merry Christmas.

141 posted on 12/25/2001 11:59:23 AM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
A thread for you to peruse.
142 posted on 12/25/2001 12:00:33 PM PST by madrussian
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To: Paulus Invictus
Is the Jewish religion "protected" by their constitution or not?

It was my experience that people can legally worship as they choose in Israel. However, there is tremendous pressure not to discuss any other religious alternatives with people of the Jewish faith. Maybe the following article will shed some light on this for you:

Tuesday, March 31, 1998

No missionary activity in Holy Land

The Associated Press

Representatives of 50 Christian evangelical groups have agreed to make an unprecedented joint statement promising not to carry out missionary activity in Israel. As a result, MK Nissim Zvili (Labor) said yesterday he would drop his sponsorship of an anti-proselytizing bill that has drawn protests from Christians around the world.

"This is better than a law," Zvili told The Associated Press. "This is a very big accomplishment."

In the statement, the Christian groups say they "rejoice in the presence of the Jewish people in this country of their ancestors" and agree to avoid "activities which have as their intention to alienate them from their tradition and community."

Missionary activity touches a particularly raw nerve in the Jewish state, home to 300,000 Holocaust survivors.

Clarence Wagner, director of the evangelical foundation Bridges for Peace, said the statement was an important step toward understanding between Jews and Christians. But none of the groups were engaged in proselytizing anyway, adding: "We don't believe that we have been or are in any way a threat to the Jewish people. We are among the most vocal supporters of Israel worldwide."

Christian groups opposed the proposed bill as stifling their freedom of religious expression, Wagner said. The agreement, which is to be announced formally tomorrow, was reached through the mediation of Joseph Alpher, director of the American Jewish Committee's Israel office. The accord represented "a dynamic Christian commitment to the vitality of Israel and Judaism," he said.

Another sponsor of the anti-proselytizing bill, MK Moshe Gafni (United Torah Judaism) said yesterday that he rejected the agreement. "We have a long account with Christendom," Gafni said. "They tried to wipe out Judaism by force Ñ the pogroms, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain, and now they are pursuing us even into our own country."

But the decision by Zvili to drop his sponsorship will deprive the bill of broad-based support. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has also said he opposed the bill, which Alpher said he hoped would now "wither on the vine." As initially proposed, the bill would have banned possession of any written material that proselytizes, which some Christians feared could be used to ban possession of the New Testament.

(c) copyright 1998 Ha'aretz. All Rights Reserved

Note: I would often debate various religious topics with Israeli friends, just like politics or economical issues. It is not my nature to try to convert anyone. But the official Israeli position is that there should be no "preaching" to Jews. It is their country and I see no problem with it. I just get annoyed when we in the U.S. criticize countries other than Israel for the same behavior, yet ignore that Israel has the same policy in place.

143 posted on 12/25/2001 12:01:20 PM PST by dlt
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To: LarryLied
Forgive my ignorance, but what happened to the Christians in the Ukraine in the 1930's?
144 posted on 12/25/2001 12:06:00 PM PST by dlt
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To: dlt
Oh, not much, only a few million (like 20 million) were murdered by the communists.
145 posted on 12/25/2001 12:14:32 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: BrooklynGOP
If the guy chooses not to use BC/AD, that's his business. Do you want me to force him?

No. The letter that you refuse to comment on, was comparing the usage of BC/AD to "smack in the face". Playing dumb, or being dumb? Who's forcing whom here?

Do you want me to comment on every Jew? Look at the history, and look at the people as a whole. For example. Jihad/Terrorism in Muslims world is not an isolated incident. This is.

There were Jewish terrorists too. And how about "Crazy" Irv? And ozzymandus here seems to have suggested that that incident wasn't single in the history. The most recent reported one, you can at least make that conlusion.

Good. We agree. Then why are we still on this?

Because I stated that it's the sentiment that is revealed.

I wasn't aware that there was a movement amongst Jews to take out symbols out of this "historically Christian...".

It's an attitude (confirmed by your scepticism about "historically Christian"), that is manifested in attempts to further secularize this country. You'll be very suprise to learn that many activists have Jewish names.

By the way, while most of the first americans were Christians, if I recall correctly, freedom of speech and religion were the first values as well. As for Judaism, nothing is offensive to our religion, other then others not letting us practice is.

Even with your narrow definition of "what's offensive", bibles and using references to Christ can be intepreted as attempts to convert, and therefore, not letting you practice your religion.

I suspect that by this you mean that there were Jews amongst Bolsheviks? Sure, I don't deny it. Do you deny the russian involvement in the Bolshevik revolution?? Do you deny the Jewish involvement in the shaping of the capitalism system?

By that I suggest that the overwhelming majority of top Bolsheviks were Jewish, and that they were driven by hatred to Czarist Russia with what they perceived was unfair treatment of Russian Jews. They weren't religious, just like most Jewish activists in the US are, who are, just like the Bolsheviks before them, are working on dismanling traditions of this country.

Yes. You have been trying for a while now, yet I don't see any other examples other then isolated incident that you brought about here.

I offered you two instances on this thread. I am sure there is much more evidence available, and if you want I will be flagging you on relevant threads.

Now, you are the one acting like you are at a middle eastern bazaar. Internationalists? In theory? maybe. In practice? It said "Jew" in Jews' soviet passports. What's more, my father had to divorce my mom for 1 day, so they can remarry under her name so he could actually get into college (the dean told him flat out, that they are accepting any more of "his kind" that year).

Stalin purged the "Old Guard" Bolsheviks, who were overwhelmingly Jewish, and the Communism started to gradually turn into nationalism, which culminated in its demise.

146 posted on 12/25/2001 12:16:37 PM PST by madrussian
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To: dlt
A Man-Made Famine raged through Ukraine, the ethnic-Ukrainian region of northern Caucasus, and the lower Volga River region in 1932-33. This resulted in the death of between 7 to 10 million people, mainly Ukrainians. This was instigated by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin and his henchman Lazar Kaganovich. The main goal of this artificial famine was to break the spirit of the Ukrainian farmer/peasant and to force them into collectivization. The famine was also used as an effective tool to break the renaissance of Ukrainian culture that was occuring under approval of the communist government in Ukraine. Moscow perceived this as a threat to a Russo-Centric Soviet rule and therefore acted to crush this cultural renaissance in a most brutal manner. In 1932, the Soviets increased the grain procurement quota for Ukraine by 44%. They were aware that this extraordinarly high quota would result in a grain shortage, therefore resulting in the inability of the Ukrainian peasant to feed themselves. Soviet law was quite clear in that no grain could be given to feed the peasants until the quota was met. Communist party officials with the aid of military trrops and NKVD secret police units were used to move against peasants who may be hiding grain from the Soviet government. Even worse, an internal passport system was implemented to restrict movements of Ukrainian peasants so that they could not travel in search of food. Ukrainian grain was collected and stored in grain elevators that were guarded by military units & NKVD secret police units while Ukrainians were starving in the immediate area. The actions of this Moscow instigated action was a deliberate act of genocide against the Ukrainian peasant.
147 posted on 12/25/2001 12:16:44 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: dlt
Eric Margolis writes:

Remembering Ukraine's Unknown Holocaust

Walter Duranty, the New York Time's man in Moscow knew of the slaughter and refused to report it. The Germans were of it however and used what Kaganovitch and others did in the Ukraine to execute their own program of genocide.

148 posted on 12/25/2001 12:21:09 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: BrooklynGOP
Proves that I accept it. You are one who was asking me for my views on the dating systems.

I don't know how the fact that you accept it is relevant here, apart from not being very suprising in light of what I was saying.

Right. There were no functioning temples in Odessa (but plenty of churches. My mother walked me into one when I was about 7 to show me how people worship and how beautiful the art is).

The Bolsheviks destroyed almost all the churches in Russia. The grunt of oppression was on the church, after the Bolshevik revolution.

If it didn't, you wouldn't have brought it up. But you did.

I asked to confirm my guess about you.

Interesting. So Jews are just hateful of Christians because of their genes?

No, Jews would rather live in a secularized country, if it's not Jewish. Only when it comes to their religion, they would like to live in a virtual theocracy.

Very interesting. Weren't you the one arguing that a Jew is a religion, not an ethnicity?

I don't remember participating in that discussion, because the quesion is a weasely one, used to disown "atheistic" Jews.

You people spin this so much, you get caught up in your own contradictions.

LOL! You have caught your own tail, so far, and keep chasing it.

149 posted on 12/25/2001 12:23:24 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
Some educational thread for you:
The ever-evolving relationship between Poles and Jews
150 posted on 12/25/2001 12:27:31 PM PST by madrussian
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