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School apologizes for burning New Testament
Jersualem Post ^ | December 25, 2001 | Shoshana Kordova

Posted on 12/24/2001 4:49:53 PM PST by dlt

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To: BrooklynGOP
The teacher said that if missionary material were found in the school again, it would be thrown into the garbage rather than publicly burned, said Lesnick.

Anyone doubts that a teacher in a Christian school wouldn't throw Jewish/Muslim or any other missionary material into the garbage?

This wasn't just "missionary material" but the New Testament of the Bible. If a Christian school threw a Torah or Koran into the garbage it would be (rightly) seen as an act of intolerance or hate, and an encouragement toward ignorance.

This attitude is more reminicent of Nazis than persons in a free democracy. It's too bad the Jews are so threatened by an established book.

151 posted on 12/25/2001 12:32:12 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: madrussian
No. The letter that you refuse to comment on, was comparing the usage of BC/AD to "smack in the face". Playing dumb, or being dumb? Who's forcing whom here?

So? For him its a smack in the face to use the name of a false prophet in the whatever Jewish text he was writing about? You yourself are acting like he smacked you in the face by not acceptiong your savior. The parallel is rather clear. You two can relate quite well.

Because I stated that it's the sentiment that is revealed.

Isolated case. Puuuhlease... someone on FR "suggested" something.. So? look at the history. If you want to talk about sentiments, I think I can find more on sentiments of people against Jews, then the other way around. Russia for example is historically anti-semetic. But I am not bringing it up till now, as to not to imply that I have pre judged you and that your sentiments were revealed to me because you are russian.

It's an attitude (confirmed by your scepticism about "historically Christian"), that is manifested in attempts to further secularize this country.

Scepticism? Where's my scepticism. I'll repeat for you again, because you appear to be slow. Most of the first americans were Christian. Yet, freedom of speech AND freedom of religion were the first american values. Going by your logic, this country is historically WASP, and you being Russian Orthodox... well, you get the drift.

You'll be very suprise to learn that many activists have Jewish names.

There are always many Jewish names on either side. Which allows people like you spin any issue in every each way. My grandmother's grandfather was killed by Petlurovzi. Some family on my father's side owned a factory prior to revolution and had to run to South America when communists took over. My mother's grandfather was a communist (with Kotovsky), he was killed by Stalin in 1939. A lot of my family was killed by the nazi's in WW2, etc. As you see, you can spin my family any way you like. Some ran from the communists, some ran with the communists, etc,etc,etc. Most families in russia, Jewish or not, had a communist in the family. In fact, if you listen to communists in Russia today, they will blame Jews for their failure... STILL TO THIS DAY.

By that I suggest that the overwhelming majority of top Bolsheviks were Jewish, and that they were driven by hatred to Czarist Russia with what they perceived was unfair treatment of Russian Jews.

Tops capitalists were and are Jewish as well. What's your point?

I offered you two instances on this thread. I am sure there is much more evidence available, and if you want I will be flagging you on relevant threads.

This is a very intersting thread. A lone teacher burns new testament because someone tried to preach Christianity to his student. And rightly you are outraged because no one should be burning a holy book. You are not however outraged that someone is trying to convert Jews in a historically Jewish state of Israel. Yet, some Jew in USA doesnt' want to use a Christian date, and you are outraged, that he is living in a (according to you) historically Christian country and etc.. You see the parallel?

152 posted on 12/25/2001 12:33:03 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Let’s modify the scenario slightly. Say you are sending your kid to a private school here in America that stresses Christian, Conservative, Free Enterprise, traditional American values. A group comes to your community and starts handing out copies of the Communist Manifesto to your kids as a means of encouraging membership in the Communist party. Would it be as wrong for one of the teachers to burn a copy of the Communist Manifesto?

Yes. Let the ideas speak for themselves. If you believe in the first amendment, the truth will win out in the end. In the case of this poor school, their final decision is to "trash" any further New Testaments that they receive, so no student will have the opportunity to judge for themselves whether the Jesus of the New Testament is the Messiah prophesied in the Old. Likewise, with the Communist Manifesto, better to read it young and debate and discard its' tenets as false than to encounter it later in a less discerning environment.

153 posted on 12/25/2001 12:34:38 PM PST by stryker
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To: stryker
Agreed, I only offered my scenario to get some people to think differently.
154 posted on 12/25/2001 12:37:22 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: madrussian
I don't know how the fact that you accept it is relevant here, apart from not being very suprising in light of what I was saying.

Well. You asked me. I told you. If now you don't find your own question to be relevant, then you have in fact caught your own tail :)

The Bolsheviks destroyed almost all the churches in Russia. The grunt of oppression was on the church, after the Bolshevik revolution.

Oh? There were quite a few churches in Odessa, but not a single temple (keep in mind, that odessa was 30-40% Jewish at one point)

I asked to confirm my guess about you.

That's a very good guess. Shows that you know that there were no temples and no Jewish schools in USSR, yet you still attempt to show that Bolsheviks were anti Christian, where in reality they were more anti religion (any religion). My grandmother's grandfather was a Rebbe. Not a Rabbi - a Rebbe (for those who don't know, in Hasidic branch of Judasm, rabbi is more like a priest - someone who does service in the synagogue, where Rebbe is more like a Bishop - a regional authority figure on religious issues). My grandmother went to a Jewish school in Ukraine before the revolution, and her whole family was quite religious. The only reason that I am not is... surprise, the revolution. You can rest assured that my kids will be much more religous that I am. So, kopchenaya kolbasa and etc, is quite temporary, even those who shop on brighton manage to give their kids opportunities to become more Jewish (so to speak) then they had..
I don't remember participating in that discussion, because the quesion is a weasely one, used to disown "atheistic" Jews.

Not at all. Being Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion.. You are even trying to prove it by saying that Jews that are not religious have something else in common?

LOL! You have caught your own tail, so far, and keep chasing it.

Guy, you need to chill out with a nice cold bottle of Baltika

155 posted on 12/25/2001 12:44:39 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
which is every year before the year 0...

Neither the BCE/CE system or the BC/AD system have now or ever had a year 0. There is only 1 BC or 1 AD--its the same system thought up by a Christian monk (very likely wrong, as you state) in the 5th Century--however both are based on the "traditional" (and incorrect) estimation of the same date--namely Jesus birth. The reason it is the "Common Era" is due to the influence world wide of Christian culture...

To me it seems pretty disingenuous for academia for whatever reason to try to sanitize BC/AD since it really is the same Christian based and invented calender after all...

156 posted on 12/25/2001 12:50:49 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns
To me it seems pretty disingenuous for academia for whatever reason to...

That's a seperate issue. Some on this threat are claiming it to be a Jewish plot to minimize Christianity or what not.

157 posted on 12/25/2001 12:52:25 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
threat=thread
158 posted on 12/25/2001 12:54:46 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
That's a seperate issue. Some on this threat are claiming it to be a Jewish plot to minimize Christianity or what not.

And some idiots want to blame Jewish people for everything... As a Christ-follower, all I know is that everyone needs a Savior!

159 posted on 12/25/2001 1:03:43 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Would it be as wrong for one of the teachers to burn a copy of the Communist Manifesto?

Are we receiving $3 billion a year in military and foreign aid from a Communist country? Then I suppose we could burn the Communist Manifesto and not worry about offending anyone we depend on for our very national survival.

160 posted on 12/25/2001 1:06:55 PM PST by JoeSchem
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To: JoeSchem
Interesting Point.
I wonder if the Jewish school is State financed.
161 posted on 12/25/2001 1:09:15 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Most schools in Israel are in part or whole financed in some measure by the government.
162 posted on 12/25/2001 1:14:18 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum
Thanks for the Info; I might have made that assumption but you know what they say about trying to assume something.
163 posted on 12/25/2001 1:18:09 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: madrussian
It is very difficult to try to equivocate Jewish protectionism of religion with prior Jew hatreds in Europe over the milennia.

The instances of this sort of thing (book burnings) are so rare, as to have made it newsworthy in the first place.

164 posted on 12/25/2001 1:23:20 PM PST by Nachum
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To: BrooklynGOP
Why 1940's? What about everything else before that?

Because anyone who talks about some debt being due from this unpleasant incident need go no further than that to demonstrate that any 'bill' has been paid in full. If that is not enough for them, the full story would not change them either.

165 posted on 12/25/2001 1:57:00 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: madrussian,jmp702,NewAmsterdam,Carry_Okie,Askel5
"It was appropriate to burn the New Testament in private,"

Sounds like a new sort of good soldiers.
Private BurnSvejk, LOL!

166 posted on 12/25/2001 2:34:47 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
>>>That is probably why they said they were wrong, apologized, and set a process to avoid such mistakes in the future. Now when do you expect to see an apology from the Islamists massacring Christians in Indonesia on Christmas Eve?<<<

When the muzzle touches their temple.

167 posted on 12/25/2001 2:56:45 PM PST by Archaeus
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To: BrooklynGOP
RE: Your post #147. Excellent, concise response.

Out of curiosity, was any of this info talked about or learned in Ukraine?

168 posted on 12/25/2001 3:28:45 PM PST by Solon
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To: CommiesOut
I'd like to see a thread sometime on why Jews don't proselytize. It's sort of unsettling for me, I guess, that there is that essential understanding of God's belief that all human beings are not created equal. A sort of Calvinistic or pagan belief in the inexorable fate that is being Elect or Depraved.

It's very interesting to me how the one major faith which does not (and, by all rights, should not) proselytize has such disproportionate influence in obtaining government decrees against the public display, even, of other faiths.

I guess their runner-up, as it were, would be the Patriarch of Moscow who -- somehow dissatisfied with the government proclamation that netted the rebuilding of his Cathedral and home with corporate funds -- petitioned and obtained a ruling from the State that only the State Faith could be practiced in public though other faiths were tolerated in private.

169 posted on 12/25/2001 4:34:06 PM PST by Askel5
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To: BrooklynGOP
So? For him its a smack in the face to use the name of a false prophet in the whatever Jewish text he was writing about?

For him it's a smack in the face when someone else is using a Christian reference when "writing about a Jewish event", that is he's forcing someone to use BCE/CE. It's not about him not having a choice, it's about someone else not having a choice.

Isolated case. Puuuhlease... someone on FR "suggested" something.. So? look at the history. If you want to talk about sentiments, I think I can find more on sentiments of people against Jews, then the other way around.

Well, that's an interesting topic, too vast to discuss within this thread. You can join in in the future when something relevant comes up.

Russia for example is historically anti-semetic. But I am not bringing it up till now, as to not to imply that I have pre judged you and that your sentiments were revealed to me because you are russian.

If you accept that Jews are historically anti-Russian or anti-Polish, then your statment may be just an observation of a reaction. If you don't accept that, than your statement is self-serving.

Scepticism? Where's my scepticism. I'll repeat for you again, because you appear to be slow. Most of the first americans were Christian. Yet, freedom of speech AND freedom of religion were the first american values. Going by your logic, this country is historically WASP, and you being Russian Orthodox... well, you get the drift.

Since you are being slow, let me explain. This country was founded by Christians and while it wasn't legislated, that was the character of the country. With Christians being the majority, that has always been prefered by the majority of the population. WASP is not a religious phenomenon, and WASPs have a lot in common with other Christians from Europe. But because this is not legislated, militant minorities take advantage of that to impose their will of removing Christian references to suit their religious preferences.

There are always many Jewish names on either side. Which allows people like you spin any issue in every each way. My grandmother's grandfather was killed by Petlurovzi. Some family on my father's side owned a factory prior to revolution and had to run to South America when communists took over. My mother's grandfather was a communist (with Kotovsky), he was killed by Stalin in 1939. A lot of my family was killed by the nazi's in WW2, etc. As you see, you can spin my family any way you like. Some ran from the communists, some ran with the communists, etc,etc,etc.

Just because a large fraction of Russian Jews didn't like the Communists, doesn't change the facts, that Bolshevism was sympathized with by a large fraction of Jewish population and they saw it as saving them from oppression.

Most families in russia, Jewish or not, had a communist in the family. In fact, if you listen to communists in Russia today, they will blame Jews for their failure... STILL TO THIS DAY.

Commies today in Russia reflect the changing character of Communism in the Soviet Union, with it migrating from being represented by Jewish Bolsheviks of the Bolshevik revolution period, to a more nationalistic one. It was inevitable given the minority status of the Soviet Jews, and given that Stalin removed so many of them from positions of power. I don't see any contradictions. Communism was, on average, favored by the Soviet Jews at one time, and then eventually when it wasn't benefitial to them anymore, they became refusniks and anti-Communists.

Tops capitalists were and are Jewish as well. What's your point?

When Communism was "good for the Jews", they were Commies.

This is a very intersting thread. A lone teacher burns new testament because someone tried to preach Christianity to his student. And rightly you are outraged because no one should be burning a holy book. You are not however outraged that someone is trying to convert Jews in a historically Jewish state of Israel. Yet, some Jew in USA doesnt' want to use a Christian date, and you are outraged, that he is living in a (according to you) historically Christian country and etc.. You see the parallel?

I see that you still haven't comprehended that it's not a Jew who doesn't want to use a Christian date, but a Jew who doesn't want someone else to use a Christian date, because it's a "smack in the face".

170 posted on 12/25/2001 4:39:29 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
Well. You asked me. I told you. If now you don't find your own question to be relevant, then you have in fact caught your own tail :)

You told me and started to theorize why I asked you. I find it kind of amusing how you misinterpert the simplest of things.

Oh? There were quite a few churches in Odessa, but not a single temple (keep in mind, that odessa was 30-40% Jewish at one point)

How many temples were there before Bolshevik revolution, and how many churches?

That's a very good guess. Shows that you know that there were no temples and no Jewish schools in USSR, yet you still attempt to show that Bolsheviks were anti Christian, where in reality they were more anti religion (any religion).

Bolsheviks were anti-religion, but what motivated them right after the Bolshevik revolution, was destroying the traditional Russian culture. Christians were persecuted MUCH MORE than Jews, with thousands of priests executed and churches destroyed.

Not at all. Being Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion.. You are even trying to prove it by saying that Jews that are not religious have something else in common?

You'd have to do better than quote from your memory.

Guy, you need to chill out with a nice cold bottle of Baltika

I have finally found someone from Brighton Beach, who emigrated from Odessa. Finally my stereotypical Ukrainian Jew is on FR!

171 posted on 12/25/2001 4:49:03 PM PST by madrussian
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Comment #172 Removed by Moderator

To: BrooklynGOP
By the way, since Jews in the Soviet Union, just like everyone else, were so thouroughly secularized and assimilated, you aren't very different from just about average person from the former Soviet Union. In fact, Brighton Beach looks like a street in a province in the Soviet Union.

It's ironic, that Brighton Beach residents may be more Soviet now than folks in Russia. Tell me, why do they dress like low-life "gopniks" in Russia would, in Adidas pants and leather jackets?

173 posted on 12/25/2001 5:04:38 PM PST by madrussian
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To: Askel5
A sort of Calvinistic or pagan belief in the inexorable fate that is being Elect or Depraved.

I find the belief in own special status having a pagan character too. Many primitive tribe believe in their special status and have their own tribal gods.

174 posted on 12/25/2001 5:08:11 PM PST by madrussian
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To: CommiesOut;Askel5
The most interesting thing to me about this thread is the number of conspicuous absences. It's gone for over two days, and yet NOTHING from the usual... well, the usual.
175 posted on 12/25/2001 6:01:36 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: BrooklynGOP
It was 1 Jew.

You either refuse to believe what you read, or you think people are too stupid. There are more than 1 person involved in the burning. And they had to consult a rabbi, after the outrage, whether they did anything wrong (no, it wasn't obvious to them). And as the rabbi pointed out, bibles should be burned in private.

176 posted on 12/25/2001 6:20:14 PM PST by madrussian
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To: dlt
I was joking too.

My wife went to Bob Jones and lasted one year. She transferred to another college where the students were not "monitored" constently.

177 posted on 12/25/2001 7:00:23 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie
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To: dlt
bump
178 posted on 12/25/2001 7:40:58 PM PST by maestro
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To: Solon
No. Cut and pasted out of some website :) The fact that this was a "Christian genocide" is false though. Plenty of Jews lived in Ukraine. And plenty of them died as a result of this as well.
179 posted on 12/25/2001 8:22:30 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: Askel5
I'd like to see a thread sometime on why Jews don't proselytize. It's sort of unsettling for me, I guess, that there is that essential understanding of God's belief that all human beings are not created equal.

Not created equal? Excuse me? That's exactly the kind of crap the breed anti semitism. If anything Christianity spreads that not all human beings are created equal. For one to be "saved" he has to become a Christian. How equal is that? There is nothing of sort in Judaism. If you want to convert to Judaism, that's fine. If it doesn't, then that's fine too, it doesn't affect anything. Easy as that.

180 posted on 12/25/2001 8:26:00 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
For him it's a smack in the face when someone else is using a Christian reference when "writing about a Jewish event", that is he's forcing someone to use BCE/CE. It's not about him not having a choice, it's about someone else not having a choice.

Not having a choice??? Forcing? The guy suggested to the other guy. Did he put a gun to his head or threaten him? You are imagining things.

Well, that's an interesting topic, too vast to discuss within this thread. You can join in in the future when something relevant comes up.

It already did. Somehow Jews are responsible for BC/ACE stuff... Did you even research how it came about before you pointed fingers?

If you accept that Jews are historically anti-Russian or anti-Polish, then your statment may be just an observation of a reaction. If you don't accept that, than your statement is self-serving.

Elaborate.

Europe. But because this is not legislated, militant minorities take advantage of that to impose their will of removing Christian references to suit their religious preferences.

To suit their religious preferences? You were just telling me that non religious Jews do this?? What religious preferences do they have? You keep contradicting yourself..

Just because a large fraction of Russian Jews didn't like the Communists, doesn't change the facts, that Bolshevism was sympathized with by a large fraction of Jewish population and they saw it as saving them from oppression.

Kind of like russian peasants/workers so it as saving them from oppression?

I don't see any contradictions. Communism was, on average, favored by the Soviet Jews at one time,

Now you are being plain silly. And by the average it was favored by Soviet russians, so what's your point?

...and then eventually when it wasn't benefitial to them anymore, they became refusniks and anti-Communists.

Interesting. Another Jewish plot? Jews somehow transformed from communists into refusniks? Cute.

When Communism was "good for the Jews", they were Commies.

Psychobabble. When communism was good for the russians, they were commies.. Putin was KGB, was he not?

I see that you still haven't comprehended that it's not a Jew who doesn't want to use a Christian date, but a Jew who doesn't want someone else to use a Christian date, because it's a "smack in the face".

And? As a republican I don't want democrats to do a lot of things to this country, what's your point? Him merely suggesting something to another Jew is just that.. a suggestion.. BC/AC and BCE/CE are currently two standards. USA is officially using BCE/CE... Now, this guy is writing stuff about Judaism to other Jews. What's wrong with the other guy suggesting that he doesn't use Christ, if he has an option not to? How does that offend you?

181 posted on 12/25/2001 8:39:44 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: Carry_Okie
More
182 posted on 12/25/2001 8:41:14 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: madrussian
You told me and started to theorize why I asked you. I find it kind of amusing how you misinterpert the simplest of things.

Not theorizing at all. Merely stating facts as they happened.

How many temples were there before Bolshevik revolution, and how many churches?

Odessa was 30-40% Jewish at one point. It was proportionate.. Jews were pretty religious before the revolution. Yet, there wasn't a single functioning temple and quite a few churches when I was a kid.

Bolsheviks were anti-religion, but what motivated them right after the Bolshevik revolution, was destroying the traditional Russian culture. Christians were persecuted MUCH MORE than Jews, with thousands of priests executed and churches destroyed.

That's such bull and you know it. Russian traditional culture spread all through asia and was forced on other ethnicities that made up the Soviet Union. In fact, I have several friends who are from Uzbekistan.. And they are very surprised at how much more freedom of religion they had there, then Jews in ukraine/russia did. People on the whole were not anti semitic in Asian republics, and Caucus republics. What's interesting is that Armenians and Georgians, who are christian orthodox themselves, got along with Jews just fine. I had quite a few relative in Baku as well, and people from that region were not anti semitic at all.

I have finally found someone from Brighton Beach, who emigrated from Odessa. Finally my stereotypical Ukrainian Jew is on FR!

Great. I have finally found a good ol' stereotypical Russian. So, you didn't answer when I asked if you believed Protocols of Zion to be true or not... So do you?

183 posted on 12/25/2001 8:48:54 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: madrussian
By the way, since Jews in the Soviet Union, just like everyone else, were so thouroughly secularized and assimilated, you aren't very different from just about average person from the former Soviet Union. In fact, Brighton Beach looks like a street in a province in the Soviet Union.

Uh. That's the stupidest thing I heard. We have a completely different culture, don't beat our wives, and etc :). As I said, just because I am not as religous as others are, doesn't mean my kids won't be. I am bringing up my kids Jewish.

It's ironic, that Brighton Beach residents may be more Soviet now than folks in Russia. Tell me, why do they dress like low-life "gopniks" in Russia would, in Adidas pants and leather jackets?

Lame. Those are usually the russian relatives of the few Jews who marry ethnic russians.

184 posted on 12/25/2001 8:51:35 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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To: CommiesOut
Proselytizing minors is a criminal offense in Israel, where the population is about 80 percent Jewish.

Interestingly none of you is speaking out against these missionaries comitting crimes. What surprised me even more, is that those 2 american women who got arrested in Taliban, actually DID do missionary work for which they got arrested. No one even mentioned how stupid they were to go there and do missionary work when they KNEW it was against the law.

185 posted on 12/25/2001 8:54:50 PM PST by BrooklynGOP
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Comment #186 Removed by Moderator

To: BrooklynGOP
Uh. That's the stupidest thing I heard. We have a completely different culture.

You have a culture of Middle Eastern bazaar traders, LOL! I've known quite a few Jewish "refugees", like yourself. You are called "Russian" in Israel and America.

Lame. Those are usually the russian relatives of the few Jews who marry ethnic russians.

Yeah, right, with Arab-looking semitic faces.

187 posted on 12/25/2001 9:43:25 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
Uh. That's the stupidest thing I heard. We have a completely different culture.

You have a culture of Middle Eastern bazaar traders, LOL! I've known quite a few Jewish "refugees", like yourself. You are called "Russian" in Israel and America.

Lame. Those are usually the russian relatives of the few Jews who marry ethnic russians.

Yeah, right, with Arab-looking semitic faces.

188 posted on 12/25/2001 9:44:24 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
Not having a choice??? Forcing? The guy suggested to the other guy. Did he put a gun to his head or threaten him? You are imagining things.

A Jew complaining to a newspaper because they used a Christian reference in an article is not putting gun to someone's head, it's complaining and trying to force others not to use what Jews find offensive.

189 posted on 12/25/2001 9:51:02 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
To the rest of your tripe, I suggest that you do some research rather than flatly denying, in a typical Middle Eastern bazaar trader mode, what pretty much is common knowledge.

I also note, your total inability to use any logic in an argument, but rather stubbornly deny everything like a donkey. You have a different culture alright :-)

190 posted on 12/25/2001 10:00:14 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
People on the whole were not anti semitic in Asian republics, and Caucus republics.

Another example of your incorrect generalizations. Muslim republics were the first ones from where the Jews ran away. Let alone Chechnya, for example.

Next thing you'll say the Taliban was better for the Jews, LOL!

191 posted on 12/25/2001 10:22:29 PM PST by madrussian
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To: BrooklynGOP
I thought about replying to all your "points", but then changed my mind after realization that you aren't able to respond in any logical way or acknowledge anything even totally obvious.

You are too ignorant for someone from the Soviet Union, but then "refugees" didn't need any brain to emigrate.

192 posted on 12/25/2001 10:28:31 PM PST by madrussian
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Bad analogy.
193 posted on 12/25/2001 10:43:06 PM PST by spoosman
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To: dlt
When they see Jesus, they'll wish they had read the NT and not burned it. This is nothing more than a bunch of arrogant Jews who are sure Jesus is not the Messiah. Besides, they content themselves with the fable that Jesus's body was stolen.

Fortunate for them Jesus said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Even so, these people, and millions just like them have a lot of brass. "Hey Jesus," they shout, "in your face!"

Yeah, well, who knows, maybe the Lord Jesus, the King of the Jews will be in their face when it counts.

194 posted on 12/25/2001 10:51:49 PM PST by spoosman
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To: madrussian
I find the belief in own special status having a pagan character

But, given my belief in Christ--the Messiah who rode an ass--the Jews were the Chosen Ones.
(And I believe I can make a compelling case for their having held exactly that "special status" among the rest.)

It's just that the continued operation of "Chosen Ones" absent the incarnation of Jesus -- the Jew -- as Christ leaves them forever distanced somehow from the rest of the family of man (and susceptible to being used in a most calculated fashion, IMHO).

I cannot be a Christian without acknowledging the essential truth of the Jewish tradition and the absolute truth of their having been the Chosen People.

That said -- and though it's not for me to force my beliefs on another or fail to respect a man who loves and is obedient to the truth he knows (rather than culling and governing it as necessary for his own "personal values") -- it's almost painful there is no genuine avenue for, much less interest in, proselytization.

There is no way for me to become a Jew. At the essential heart of the matter, then, there is no way for me ever truly to be equal in the eyes of God.

How can that be true?

195 posted on 12/25/2001 11:24:50 PM PST by Askel5
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To: BrooklynGOP
Do you believe that the Zion protocols are true?

I'll admit I've no interest in ever reading them cover to cover even if I have perused them looking for clues to the heart of darkness.

One thing that jumped out at me as I was flipping through the book? The way they echoed almost word-for-word Nechaiev's writings on the modeling of the Narodnaya Volya on the Jesuits. "Violence for the body, lies for the soul."

I found it extremely telling that both these so-called Elders AND one of the most militantly atheistic and hateful men ever to walk the planet both took for their own a skewed image of the Jesuits.

The Protocols are not just some bunkum propaganda ... I feel it's quite likely they are the same deadly issue as Nechiaev's Catechism.

196 posted on 12/25/2001 11:38:17 PM PST by Askel5
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To: BrooklynGOP
For one to be "saved" he has to become a Christian.

If I were seeking an opinion or information on Judaism, I would go to the Jew I perceived was most faithful -- or obedient, in other words -- to the primary source of his faith. I would seek an Orthodox Jew, in other words.

I suggest you do the same where Christianity is concerned.

If you wish, the Catholic Catechism is online and will disabuse you of the misconceptions you have where the "personal opinions" of folks like Luther, Calvin and others are concerned.

197 posted on 12/25/2001 11:42:40 PM PST by Askel5
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To: madrussian
What do you expect? He saw couple of NBC movies and thinks he's an expert on Warsaw Ghetto.
198 posted on 12/25/2001 11:58:08 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: Askel5
Sometimes the last thing a fish notices is water.
199 posted on 12/25/2001 11:59:24 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: BrooklynGOP
The fact that this was a "Christian genocide" is false though. Plenty of Jews lived in Ukraine. And plenty of them died as a result of this as well.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Whoever is telling you this info is doing you a disservice. Plenty of Jews did not die as the result of the Holodomor.

To repeat this falsehood comes close to denying the remeberence due the 7-10 million Ukrainians (& Germans) that were starved to death

200 posted on 12/26/2001 5:50:46 AM PST by Solon
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