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Andrew Sullivan: Spreading the greater lie about Israel
The Sunday Times ^ | December 23, 2001 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 12/25/2001 4:08:58 PM PST by CrossCheck

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To: Alouette
No, YOU go over there and fight for the side you like. But you won't. The USA is my country and I'm not leaving and we have a right to demand our government put our safety above the interests of people in other countries.
101 posted on 12/25/2001 7:46:17 PM PST by LoisHunt
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To: dlt
When we deal with any other country, except Israel, it is from a perspective of what is good for our national interest.

Wrong, Britian in the Falklands war. To name one case off the top of my head.

102 posted on 12/25/2001 7:48:44 PM PST by Valin
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Comment #103 Removed by Moderator

To: College Repub
We have special relationships with Britain, Canada, and Mexico also. What's your point?

How much $$$ do we give these countries each year?

104 posted on 12/25/2001 7:50:59 PM PST by dlt
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To: Valin
What about the was against Serbia?

If it was in the national interest to accumulate Islamic good will, at least we learned that you can not accumulate Islamic good will.

105 posted on 12/25/2001 7:52:15 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: dlt
Half a Century of NATO cost many many multiples of aid to Israel.
106 posted on 12/25/2001 7:53:45 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Sabramerican
was=war
107 posted on 12/25/2001 7:54:19 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Valin
Wrong, Britian in the Falklands war. To name one case off the top of my head.

And did Britain come whining to Congress, insisting that we pay for their war? While -- at the same time -- Britain eavesdropped on our elected officials, stole military and technological secrets and then sold them to the the USSR and China?

108 posted on 12/25/2001 7:54:21 PM PST by dlt
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To: wooly_mammoth
Did you buy one get five free? Don't spend them all in one day.
109 posted on 12/25/2001 7:55:41 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: dlt
I'm sorry but it's not Christmas if you don't mention Pollard, the Liberty and Mark Rich.
110 posted on 12/25/2001 7:57:04 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Valin
As I said about Vietnam above, the American people WILL demand that their government put their safety above the interests of people in other countries. Do you doubt that?

If Americans perceive that US policy vis a vis Israel/Palestinians (whatever - whatever the heck that situation is over there, which means absolutely nothing to me personally either way as far as I can figure out) is endangering their lives a la 9/11, there will be demands on the pols to change that policy. Once they see it like that, they are not going to put up with getting blown up over a land dispute half way around the world when we have millions of empty acres in the US.

111 posted on 12/25/2001 7:57:37 PM PST by LoisHunt
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To: dlt
How much do we give egypt each year? Don't you think Israel deserves a few million more? Especailly since they don't have state sanctioned newspapers celebrating the attack and murder of 3000 americans on 911.
112 posted on 12/25/2001 7:59:22 PM PST by College Repub
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To: dlt
"Alouette, when I lived in Jerusalem, the only place to get a bagel was in one Arab bakery in the Old City, and it only vaguely looked like a bagel as it was about 10 inches in diameter."

You are probably overlooking the fact that the majority of Israeli Jews are from the Arab world, many of them refugees. Bagels, lox, Saul bellow, and Streimels are all "Ashkenazic" or European Jewish. The "Sephardic" or Oriental Jews do not know this stuff at all. That doesn't make them less Jewish.

As to "pork butchers" outnumbering "kosher butchers," having visited my Sephardic relatives in Tel Aviv a fair bit, I think that's, well, baloney.

113 posted on 12/25/2001 8:00:52 PM PST by cookcounty
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To: LoisHunt
And your point, exactly, is? Not enough Americans died in WWII to suit you? Fighting for the balance of power in the world isn't important, it only counts if you're fighting to liberate people from concentration camps? Surely, you must have had a point, but I'm damned if I can figure out what it is.

You asked why you should care about Israel, and I told you. You know, WWI started with the assasination of some guy no one ever heard of by an anarchist somewhere in the Balkans. Before you knew it, millions were dead in Europe. World War is a funny thing-- once it gets going, it's hard to figure how it will play out. Israel has the potential to be that kind of spark to a long smoldering fire.

114 posted on 12/25/2001 8:00:55 PM PST by walden
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To: Alouette
Here is some Nazi talk -- not indicative of the average Israeli on the street -- but just the same:

1. "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies ­not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

2. "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

3. " [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

4. "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

5. "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

6. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

7. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), p. 121.

8. "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

_____________

But don't take my work for it....check it out! Read everything you can get your hands on, go there, live there. Really check it out.

115 posted on 12/25/2001 8:04:26 PM PST by dlt
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To: dlt
"They taste good with onions"- Moshe, Chief Chef, Tel Aviv Missada
116 posted on 12/25/2001 8:07:09 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: LoisHunt
whatever - whatever the heck that situation is over there, which means absolutely nothing to me personally either way as far as I can figure out

You might want to find out about what is going on over there and what it means to this country. The safety of individual citizens is NOT the #1 priority of your government.

117 posted on 12/25/2001 8:07:16 PM PST by Valin
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To: walden
Sheesh. Your rationale is pretty lame. Those are good reasons why the US shouldn't have supported founding the state of Israel if its got the potential to cause Doomsday. And at this point, that would be a good reason to pull the plug on it and evacuate the people living there to Nebraska.

Look, you have no desire to die for Israel and if you came right up to it, you wouldn't want to die for Israel and you're an Israel supporter. Why in God's name have you no humility about other Americans who don't care one way or the other about Israel getting killed for Israel? And for what? Some egomania?

118 posted on 12/25/2001 8:09:18 PM PST by LoisHunt
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To: LoisHunt
You've got many opinions for someone who doesn't care.
119 posted on 12/25/2001 8:11:28 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Valin
Yeah, and put that before them (safety of the citizens) in an election and see what happens. Lets hear the pols defend sacrificing US civilians.
120 posted on 12/25/2001 8:11:39 PM PST by LoisHunt
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