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Durham man charged with murder in shooting of suspected burglar
Raleigh NewsObserver.com ^ | December 25, 2001 12:15 p.m. EST

Posted on 12/26/2001 7:53:41 AM PST by Gritty

DURHAM, N.C. (AP) -- A 31-year-old Durham man is facing murder charges after shooting a suspected burglar in his front yard.

James Edward Hill Jr. called 911 early Monday to report the shooting, saying the man was trying to break into his home, Durham Police Lt. Ed Sarvis said.

The 23-year-old victim, whose name was withheld, was found lying in Hill's front yard, Sarvis said. He was taken to Duke Hospital, where he died of gunshot wounds.

Hill is being held at the Durham County Jail without bond, said his attorney, Kenneth S. Ward. He is scheduled to appear in District Court on Monday.

Ward said witnesses told him Hill was at home with his wife when he heard burglars outside. He stepped out the front door and was attacked with what might have been a brick, Ward said.

He then fired his registered handgun at one of two men outside. Since Hill has no telephone, he went to a neighbor's house to call 911, Ward said.

After the victim was pronounced dead, police turned the case over to homicide investigators, who found probable cause to charge Hill with murder, said Sarvis, who could not elaborate on the team's findings.

Police could not say how many times or where the victim was shot. The body has been sent to the chief medical examiner's office in Chapel Hill for an autopsy.

Neighbors said they have had problems with break-ins recently.



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1 posted on 12/26/2001 7:53:41 AM PST by Gritty
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To: Gritty
Time and time again this must be said: "Never bring a brick to a gunfight."

More facts are needed before opinions can start flying on this one. Although, no phone is odd. He must have cable modem...

2 posted on 12/26/2001 7:58:28 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: Gritty
How many times do I need to remind everyone:

Always drag the body into the house before dialing 911!

It cuts down on the number of questions that may take you to the "convict condo".

3 posted on 12/26/2001 8:03:54 AM PST by capt. norm
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To: Gritty
This stinks. I wonder what the whole story is.
4 posted on 12/26/2001 8:05:51 AM PST by Nov3
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To: Gritty
The 23-year-old victim, whose name was withheld, was found lying in Hill's front yard,

Good grief...I thought everyone knew that you are supposed to drag their carcass into the house, making sure you don't leave a trail of blood. "Geez, officer...he was standing there on my living room throw rug and threatening my life, what was I to do?"

5 posted on 12/26/2001 8:10:19 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: capt. norm
Always drag the body into the house before dialing 911!

People ignore this advice. It will get you put in jail and ruin any self defense defense that you have if you go tampering with evidence. Let the Police find you changing the "crime scene" and fabricating a story and they won't look well on it. They will think you have something to hide and base their investigation on that premise. Shoot ONLY when "in fear of your life or others" and keep your mouth shut and let a lawyer talk for you.

6 posted on 12/26/2001 8:10:57 AM PST by Nov3
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To: Nov3
Sounds routine to me. They'll probably release him in a few days if his story can be supported by forensic evidence. They'll probably hold his weapon though...
7 posted on 12/26/2001 8:11:01 AM PST by fix
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To: RobRoy
Time and time again this must be said: "Never bring a brick to a gunfight."

Darwin was right......(grin)

This entire case sounds like civic improvment to me.

8 posted on 12/26/2001 8:13:58 AM PST by wbill
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To: fix
I hope so. It depends on whether they have a moronic DA or not. Also whether or not there was a personal relationship between shooter and "victim" and whether the "victim" was shot in the back etc!

I hope he did a public service getting rid of this cretin and does not get put through the wringer for it.

9 posted on 12/26/2001 8:15:29 AM PST by Nov3
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To: Nov3
Sorry...I forgot to put in the <sarcasm tag.
10 posted on 12/26/2001 8:15:34 AM PST by capt. norm
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To: Gritty
Note: Durham is an ultra-liberal college town.

He will probalby be charge with aiding and abetting a habitual offender (a registered handgun).

11 posted on 12/26/2001 8:15:55 AM PST by Perseverando
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To: capt. norm
Some people still think we have the police that we had 25 years ago. They knew who's side they were on and supported their fellow law abiding citizens. A great number of police still do. However your draw the wrong investigating officer and the wrong DA and things can go badly now
12 posted on 12/26/2001 8:20:54 AM PST by Nov3
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To: Gritty
The DA will argue that he could of returned into the house after getting hit by the brick. You have to exhaust all your possibilities before firing, and from this article it looks like he didn't.
But I'm sure it was much harder in the heat of the moment than this. You hear a noise, run outside with your gun, someone throws a brick at you, its dark and you're not sure what else is coming your way.
13 posted on 12/26/2001 8:28:41 AM PST by lelio
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To: Gritty
The Durham paper, The Herald-Sun may be a better source to follow this story.

Suspect, shot to death, had long record

The Herald-Sun
Dec 25, 2001 : 7:13 pm ET

DURHAM -- A man allegedly shot to death trying to break into a Fayetteville Street home had a lengthy list of prior charges against him, including burglaries and drug arrests.

Jermaine Eric Hart, 25, of Chapel Hill, died of his wounds at Duke University Hospital. James Edward Hill Jr., 31, was arrested at 3303 Fayetteville St. at 2:02 a.m. Monday, according to police.

Hill called 911 to report he had shot a man who was trying to break into his house.

A search of court records revealed that Hart had a lengthy list of various charges against him in Durham and Orange counties. Those included drug charges, arrests for breaking into vehicles and a charge of felony possession of burglary tools that was still awaiting action in Durham County Superior Court.

Hill remained in the Durham County jail on Christmas Day.

14 posted on 12/26/2001 8:32:33 AM PST by westfield3
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To: Gritty
He stepped out the front door...

Why step out the door?

Of course, not having a phone might be the reason -- that is a little strange though.

Again, please ignore the people saying that you should drag the body anywhere -- don't even touch it!!! If you are in fear of your life, shoot the bastard (in the chest or head -- NOT in the leg) and leave it at that.

If you want the dead body to be in your house, you'd better wait until the perp is in your house before you shoot him.

15 posted on 12/26/2001 8:33:02 AM PST by TexRef
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To: Gritty
We're starting to look more and more like the UK.

Disgusting - the guy greases a multiple rap offender and he's in the slammer??!! That's moronic. The DA needs to be replaced.

prambo

16 posted on 12/26/2001 8:36:46 AM PST by prambo
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To: Perseverando
Ward said witnesses told him Hill was at home with his wife when he heard burglars outside. He stepped out the front door and was attacked with what might have been a brick, Ward said.

In North Carolina, you may use deadly force against somebody trying to break in to your home, even if you don't see a "weapon". Based on the fact he was attacked with a brick (just ask Reginald Denny if a brick is a "deadly weapon") he was probably in fear for his life or serious bodily injury (another defense for using deadly force).

But then again, this is Durham, which is Berzerkly East, so maybe he should have just offered the perp a joint and let him in to help himself.

17 posted on 12/26/2001 8:36:47 AM PST by Gritty
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To: Gritty
Hello Gritty!
I'll ping my NC Freeper list.

CD

18 posted on 12/26/2001 8:37:07 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: *Old_North_State; mykdsmom; ncweaver; ncpastor; Constitution Day; Howlin; kachina...
Please Freepmail me if:

1) You want to be added to my North Carolina ping-list.
2) You no longer want to be included in this North Carolina ping-list.

FRegards,
Constitution Day

Old North State bump-list:
Articles relating to North Carolina, NC politics and NC people.
To add to this list, type *Old_North_State
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To view articles on this list, click the link above.

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19 posted on 12/26/2001 8:39:29 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: westfield3
a lengthy list of various charges against him in Durham and Orange counties... drug charges, arrests for breaking into vehicles and a charge of felony possession of burglary tools that was still awaiting action...

This guy sounds like a bad dude that got justice when he was expecting profits.

20 posted on 12/26/2001 8:40:11 AM PST by Gritty
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To: Gritty
When I lived in Texas (and this still may be true), you could use deadly force to protect property as well as to protect life. If someone was trying to steal your car while it was parked on the street, you could shoot them dead.

Of course, there were cases when the police would arrest someone for something like this, but in Texas all indictments have to be handed down by grand juries, and you would always get a "no bill" from the grand jury if you were clearly defending your property, your life, or the life of others. And ther was no requirement that the force being used was proportional. It was assumed that if someone was breaking into your house, you had a reasonable fear for your safety, and could shoot him dead.

21 posted on 12/26/2001 8:57:42 AM PST by CA Conservative
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To: Gritty
Oh come on! Everybody knows that a Brick is NOT a deadly weapon... didn't the L.A. Riots teach anyone anything?????
22 posted on 12/26/2001 9:03:38 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks
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To: westfield3; Gritty; Perseverando
"James Edward Hill Jr., 31, was arrested at 3303 Fayetteville St. at 2:02 a.m. Monday, according to police."...
..."Neighbors said they have had problems with break-ins recently."

After reading more closely, I know exactly where this neighborhood is.
From the 1770's to the early 1900's, my ancestors owned most of the surrounding land.
Now we only have the old family cemetery which is just a few blocks from this address.
It's not far from North Carolina Central University, and although it has some really nice older folks living there, there are always shady-looking characters about.

- CD

23 posted on 12/26/2001 9:06:11 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: capt. norm
"Always drag the body into the house before dialing 911!"

No,no, no. That will only lead to a charge of murder. It is the best policy to not shoot unless the person is in the home. But self-defense is always a valid reason for shooting if the person has a dangerous weapon and is threatening you.

24 posted on 12/26/2001 9:11:57 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: capt. norm
How many times do I need to remind everyone:

Always drag the body into the house before dialing 911!

It cuts down on the number of questions that may take you to the "convict condo".

NO, NO, NO! Cheap throw down or an odd kitchen knife. Dragging leaves marks.

25 posted on 12/26/2001 9:14:18 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon
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To: Gritty
In North Carolina, you may use deadly force against somebody trying to break in to your home, even if you don't see a "weapon".

No, you are only allowed to use deadly force if you or someone else is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm. That is the exact wording of the law as taught in official firearms safety courses in NC.

In NC if someone breaks in your house you are allowed to ask them to leave, but more than that will bring the law against you. As long as they don't threaten you with violence you might as well live in England. Breaking in by itself is not sufficient aggression to meet the test of imminent danger. They can even start packing up your stuff and you still have to be polite to them.

The application of these laws varies greatly within the State. In Durham, if you use a weapon you are probably screwed no matter what the circumstances. In some rural counties the guy in the article would never have been arrested in the first place.

26 posted on 12/26/2001 9:15:48 AM PST by OK
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To: TexRef
"If you are in fear of your life, shoot the bastard (in the chest or head -- NOT in the leg) and leave it at that. "

We are to shoot for the center of mass. And the idea is to shoot to stop, not kill. And you must be in fear for your life. It is amazing how many "cowboys" here are saying to interfere with the scene by moving the body. If we have to kill someone, we must have all of the proper rules checkmarked. Otherwise, some wiseass lawyer will have us for lunch.

27 posted on 12/26/2001 9:18:46 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: westfield3
A search of court records revealed that Hart had a lengthy list of various charges against him in Durham and Orange counties. Those included drug charges, arrests for breaking into vehicles and a charge of felony possession of burglary tools that was still awaiting action in Durham County Superior Court

They should give the man who shot this POS a medal, not a jail cell.

By his actions of self defense, he probably saved several lives down the road.

28 posted on 12/26/2001 9:18:47 AM PST by Mulder
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Oh come on! Everybody knows that a Brick is NOT a deadly weapon... didn't the L.A. Riots teach anyone anything?????

I'm sure Reginald Denny would absolutly agree with you.

29 posted on 12/26/2001 9:20:57 AM PST by MotleyGirl70
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Oh come on! Everybody knows that a Brick is NOT a deadly weapon... didn't the L.A. Riots teach anyone anything?????

I'm sure Reginald Denny would absolutly agree with you.

30 posted on 12/26/2001 9:20:57 AM PST by MotleyGirl70
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To: westfield3
A man allegedly shot to death trying to break into a Fayetteville Street home
Shouldn't that be reversed? "A man was shot to death allegedly trying ..." It makes it seem like whether he's dead or not is up for a jury to decide :)
Sounds like this guy was playing a lottery with his life and he finally won the big prize. Good riddance!
31 posted on 12/26/2001 9:23:48 AM PST by lelio
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To: Gritty
Where is Senator "Dick" Edwards (D-NC) when you need a good sleazy trial lawyer? Although he would not represent this guy because he was an evil gun owner. Sounds like there is more to this story but who knows. Durham is worse than Fayetteville as far as violence goes in my humble opinion. Fitting it happened on FAYETTEVILLE STREET.
32 posted on 12/26/2001 9:34:32 AM PST by NC Conservative
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To: CA Conservative, OK
"When I lived in Texas (and this still may be true), you could use deadly force to protect property as well as to protect life. If someone was trying to steal your car while it was parked on the street, you could shoot them dead."

"In NC if someone breaks in your house you are allowed to ask them to leave, but more than that will bring the law against you"

Sounds like two extremes to me. In Indiana, you better not shot them outside but if they physically enter your home, the danger to your life is assumed and you are free to defend yourself as you see fit.

33 posted on 12/26/2001 9:35:31 AM PST by tberry
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To: OK
No, you are only allowed to use deadly force if you or someone else is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm. That is the exact wording of the law as taught in official firearms safety courses in NC.

It is possible you are correct. If so, I am misinformed and so are a lot of others in my area who took the same state-mandated safety course. We were taught the exception was if somebody was in the process of breaking into your home they could be fired upon to prevent entry. However, once inside, they had to meet the "threat of death or grievous bodily harm" test. As you state, after they are successfully inside they can help themselves as long as they mind their own thieving buisiness and didn't threaten you or other occupants. You also can't shoot them in your front yard if they are just trying to steal something.

Can you give a specific cite on the disputed language?

34 posted on 12/26/2001 9:38:58 AM PST by Gritty
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To: Gritty
He stepped out the front door and was attacked with what might have been a brick, Ward said.

Might have been a brick? Did the 'burglar' throw it? Where did it land?

It's a suspicious story. A warning shot would have been more appropriate, and I wouldn't be surprised if the self-defense defense is bogus.

35 posted on 12/26/2001 9:40:50 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
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To: bang_list
Big Bang
36 posted on 12/26/2001 9:42:22 AM PST by tberry
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To: fix
Sounds routine to me. They'll probably release him in a few days if his story can be supported by forensic evidence. They'll probably hold his weapon though...

No, it's past that stage. They've charged him with murder.

37 posted on 12/26/2001 9:43:09 AM PST by mlo
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To: Gritty
Ignore the above italicized sentences. I meant only to italicize the word "inside". Sorry for any confusion.

The cite I request is only for the actual "breaking-in" period. On everything else, we agree.

38 posted on 12/26/2001 9:43:17 AM PST by Gritty
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To: The Old Hoosier
Warning shots are never appropriate. They are bad practice, training yourself to miss, they could kill innocents, and they take as much time to determine if they "worked" as a command to the perp to stop does.

If you are ever in the position to fire a warning shot, instead, command the perp to stop, and let him make the next move: comply with your instructions, or be shot - his choice. For multiple perps, cover the closest one, unless another is clearly more threatening to your life.

39 posted on 12/26/2001 9:55:13 AM PST by coloradan
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To: Don Myers
1st off if you aim center mass you are shooting to kill. 2nd if you pull the trigger you better be prepared to kill. 3rd you never shoot to stop, you shoot to kill. This is my philosophy as taught to me by my father and the United State Marine Corps. Semper Fi
40 posted on 12/26/2001 9:56:18 AM PST by sean327
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To: Gritty
The officers who taught the course I took gave a true story to illustrate. A man in a rural house was awakened by someone banging on his door. The man was obviously drunk or deranged as he pounded on the door to get in. He somehow got up above the door and broke the transom to climb in. The homeowner shot him as he was hanging partially inside the house.

The case was settled when the homeowner paid the perp's medical bills and made a cash settlement with him.

They didn't say what County this was, but they were very clear that you don't shoot unless someone is in the process of attacking you or someone else with the intent to kill or do "grievous" bodily harm. If the person is coming at you and you pull a weapon and order them to keep back, but they continue to come at you, it is normally assumed that they intend grievous bodily harm if they are willing to risk getting shot. All of this has to convince a jury, so the results can be extremely variable from county to county.

41 posted on 12/26/2001 9:56:36 AM PST by OK
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To: MotleyGirl70
Oh well, I suppose I should have put a Sarcasm tag... ;0)
42 posted on 12/26/2001 9:56:43 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks
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To: sean327
Never EVER leave a live enemy behind you... shoot to kill. Period. Or don't bother shooting at all... just my opinion ;0)
43 posted on 12/26/2001 10:00:08 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks
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To: sean327
"This is my philosophy as taught to me by my father and the United State Marine Corps. Semper Fi"

You are talking about war. I am talking about an incident in a lawyer-run civilian environment. If a law-abiding citizen doesn't want to spend the rest of his life behind bars, there are rules to be followed. Yes, shooting for the center of mass might kill. But if you get up before a jury and a wiseacre lawyer, you had better not talk about trying to kill the SOB. And you had better say the proper words like, in fear of my life. Semper Fi to you, gyrene.

44 posted on 12/26/2001 10:00:21 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: sean327
Shooting to kill is not the strictly legal way to go, although it could save your life. In the firearms course I took, they said if you have to shoot somebody, give two quick shots, then pause to see if that stopped him. If he keeps coming, give him two more, etc.

This method not only does the job, but it protects you somewhat from lawyers who might argue that you were overdoing it and out of control. Once the attack is stopped, you have reached the limit of your legal right to shoot in NC.

45 posted on 12/26/2001 10:03:03 AM PST by OK
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To: Chad Fairbanks
"Never EVER leave a live enemy behind you... shoot to kill. Period. Or don't bother shooting at all... just my opinion ;0)"

This sentiment and other similar ones are what you keep in the back of your mind. You never express them to the cops who are doing the paperwork, and you never voice them in front of a jury, if it comes to that.

46 posted on 12/26/2001 10:04:36 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
Pulling a trigger on another person holds huge consequences, firing at center mass is going to cause death or serious injury. I do not take lightly what happens when a firearm is used in defence of your life of the lives of your family. No one wants to kill another human being, but if you pull the trigger you better be prepared for what comes next. That is all I was trying to get across.
47 posted on 12/26/2001 10:09:41 AM PST by sean327
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To: Don Myers
So true... however, what other conclusion would they come to when the scumbag is laying there, with all 15 rounds from your clip in his torso, and you've got a new clip in...???? ;0)
48 posted on 12/26/2001 10:14:25 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Chad: Say "magazine" not "clip", ok? Big difference...One makes you sound like a crazed "gun nut".....Guess which one?
Also, my instructor always stresses thinking "shoot to STOP", not to "KILL". You shoot to stop an attack, not to "shoo or scare or punish" a perp.
Just my opinion....
49 posted on 12/26/2001 10:29:27 AM PST by China Clipper
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To: capt. norm
DRAG HIM IN... how do you account for the blood trail in & splatter? Perhaps allow him to enter then blast. And if he had no phone and the neighbors didn't complain about "shootin' varmi'ts, why not just dump him, burry him etc etc.; then there are NO questions...you can always cite this dude as to why you didn't call the cops in the first place. ...and whatever happened to "I was afraid for my life?" Then shut up and get an attorney. All else fails, tell them you are OJ!
50 posted on 12/26/2001 10:30:30 AM PST by Henchman
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