The Things That Are Caesar's

Lew Rockwell ^ | 12/27/01 | Joseph Sobran

[Wm Bach]

I think there was a lot more to the treason charge against Marc Rich than has been reported. A shot across the GHWB bow from the Reagan loyalists?

[dpa5923]

Granted, but it seems everyone thinks a state of war must exist. I wonder what Ada Coddington would say. (Ada start at post number 19)

[xzins]

I think he's equally close to all of us.

And what do you base that opinion on?

[North Coast Conservative]

Strip him of his citizenship, take away his passport, and dump him into a hell-hole somewhere like Somalia. Make sure that the locals know he is there, and also spread the story that he sang like a canary when incarcerated at Camp Rhino.

If he can convince the third worlders that he didn't turn on OBL like he turned on the States, maybe he'll be fortunate enough to pick up an AK, and maybe a Marine/Seal/Green Beret will see him and finish him off for good.

In God We Trust.....Semper Fi

[Ada Coddington]

Strip him of his citizenship, take away his passport, and dump him into a hell-hole somewhere like Somalia. Make sure that the locals know he is there, and also spread the story that he sang like a canary when incarcerated at Camp Rhino.

There are some fellows that age who want to join the Foreign Legion. Some actually do, I suppose. He just picked the wrong army to join, so strip him of his citizenship and forget about him.

[Ada Coddington]

By this logic, if Johnny Bin Walker was one of the hijackers on the aircraft and piloted one of the planes into the WTC towers, and the US then declared war, he would not have been a traitor because the US had not declared war at the time the events occurred. Are we saying only actions after the US declares war would be traitorous or could actions that involve levying war against the US be traitorous?

That would seem to be the case. If Taliban Johnny had piloted a plane, he would have been guilty of a criminal act but not treason.

[hsszionist]

Did his actions contribute to the murder of Americans? That is for the tribunal to decide.

[RnMomof7]

Bump a good article

[Romulus]

Maybe Sobran needs a refresher course in patriotism 101 .

I suspect he already has a religion.

[tgiles]

Just makes sense that God would keep an equal watch on all his children. Why would he play favorites?

[Romulus]

This is the nub of the piece:

You can repudiate your Savior, but not your nation-state. Your religion is a private affair, which nobody else can judge, not even your family; but political loyalties are indissoluble.

[sheltonmac]

BUMP

[untenured]

Is it amazing, or shocking, that a country this big should produce such a freak, or even a few more like him? Letting him off is hardly likely to encourage hordes of young Americans to follow his bizarre example. There is no need to make an example of a unique case.

This is really silly. A crime is rare, so it shouldn't be punished. Cannabilism is too, so why were we so harsh on Jeffrey Dahmer?

Crimes are punished because they are crimes, not to "make an example."

Maybe he felt closer to God in Islam than in liberal Catholicism. And maybe he was right. The Taliban is pretty far from God, but perhaps not as far as lukewarm Christianity.

Baloney. "Lukewarm Christians" don't crash hijacked aircraft into office buildings.

Is secularism rampant because people were pulled away by our unprecedented material prosperity (as Mr. Sobran, and many of his admirers on FR, seem to think), or pushed away by churches more concerned with their own earthly sovereignty than with the doing of the Lord's will? I don't know, but the instinct among people like Mr. Sobran to refuse to look inward is all too common these days, and all too unfortunate.

Physician, heal thyself.

[dpa5923]

Then how do you reconcile the fact that the Constitution does not require a state of war exists, only that the accused waged or levied war against the US?

It would seem that requiring a state of war to exist at the time of the alleged traitorous act would require a constriction on the Constitution not in the original document, added by any amendment nor ever implied in the document. Indeed, the lack of a statement requiring a state of war to exist implies that one is not required.

Comments?

[Fiddlstix]

Thanks for the Ping

[George W. Bush]

Not bad but not Sobran's best work.

[nightdriver]

"...though technically still a US citizen..."

No, Joseph. He is not technically still a US citizen. Read page four of your passport again.

Your point about turning his back on Christ before turning his back on America, however, is well taken. America will judge him in the secular realm now. Spiritual judgement is out of our hands, but it WILL come in the near future.

[billbears]

As usual another excellent Sobran piece. As much as I may not like what Walker did, there are no grounds to try him on treason. What's worse is that I've been seeing arguments to try him on sedition which is an even weaker argument.

Best thing to do with little John is to make his ID, fingerprints, etc. known to the world governments and ship him back to Afghanistan to let the new government deal with him. I imagine they're not very happy with him right now either

[nopardons]

Nope ! Your uderstanding of the Consttution, is extremely flawed.

[dadwags]

Marc Rich was INDICTED but not even tried, let alone convicted (He was spared all that by the pardon) A DA can indict almost anyone ,so the issue is not decided in that case .