Skip to comments.America First: Why we need to examine our insane Foreign policy
Posted on 12/29/2001 9:27:49 AM PST by Demidog
I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.
I wish I knew why.
I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.
One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.
When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.
This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.
American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."
Many soldiers who were in the vicinity of those tests also died from cancer.
Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.
But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.
The truth is quite the opposite.
I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.
One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.
This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.
It is the analysis of the simpleton.
The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.
When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.
The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.
None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.
So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.
And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.
As is proven time and time again, such meddling has a high price.
And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.
If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.
I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.
The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.
America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.
America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.
I am an America Firster.
In the bookmarks it goes. Finally I get to a thread before there is a 500 post flame war. :)
I agree with this. And I mean that. Probably the only post you've ever made to me with which I can find no fault.
Your post should be posted under "your opinions". Everyone else does. Oops I forgot you are a Libertarian, and you think you are extra important.
I am afraid I might get deleted for saying this...but isn't Saddam are best reason to keep our forces in Saudi Arabia? I mean without Saddam, the Saudis and the other Islamic states would be hollering for us to leave. The Islamists would be causing chaos in Iraq and all over. Iraq, at the very least is a secular Arab state, who is always ready for war with its scared but "friendly" neighbors. I say keep Saddam in power to keep the Arab world in fear from both sides, us and Saddam.
THIS POST WILL BE DELETED IN FIVE MINUTES
And, of course, you'll take your SWAG about Wayne and blame the American government for his death.
It is not arguable that John Wayne smoked four packs of filterless cigarettes a day for 45 years.
Occam's razor says that the Duke died as a result of tobacco use.
As for the rest of your rant, it is a rehash of your very first post on 9/11.
The bodies of your fellow citizens weren't even cold yet, and you were blaming the people they elected for their deaths.
. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.
This is the kind of crap that gets you labeled an American hater.
You're incorrigible. Hopefully, the next time Jim kicks your butt of the forum, you'll STAY OFF!
Tell me how much you love Bill Clinton and I won't scoff at your logic here.
Okay you have stated your position, so what is your solution? Oops I forgot, that isn't your department.
I agree with this.
Not reflected in the screed.
Free elections? Free elections?!
Your joking, right? How about this free election?
The people of the great state of California held a free election several years ago and voted 3 to 1 in favor of proposition 187 which would have put a stop to much of the tax paid support of criminal illegal aliens. After we won the *free* election the federal government stepped in and burned our ballots and declared our election unconstitutional.
Our borders and immigration policies are a complete national disgrace, and now a total national security nightmare.
My Grandfather is 97, still drives and smoked for over 50 years, and does not have cancer. The fact that a very high proportion of those who worked on films made in the area in question died from cancer puts Occam's razor at odds with your view.
I certainly do not blame you for what occurred there. I blame the morons who were more interested in getting the "job done" and covering their political butts at the expense of a few soldiers and other citizens who were "expendable."
Wrong that was the very liberal ninth circuit court based in San Francisco.
No it was ninth circuit court.
Some people can't handle that concept, and think only in term of either/or.
Yawn, page 50 of the Libertarian handbook. When in trouble call somebody(the growing old cliche) "Jack Booted Thug".
Then honor demands that you give up your SUV and ride in a Yugo.
It's an independent branch of the federal govt. I thought you a "know all, be all" devotee of the Constitution, would know that.
Thomas Jefferson is going to be very cross with you for that "faux pas" the next channeling session you and other Libertarians have with him, IMHO.
I've recently come to many of the same conclusions.
Ah the Libertarian goosestepping has begun in earnest.
Because it is easier for most people to throw rocks at you than look at themselves in the mirror.
Throwing out that label helps dismiss any words of reason one might offer. For them, it beats actually thinking.
I think that given the fredom to deal with their own problems, a majority of the people in that region would denounce bin Laden. The problem is that much of what he says resonates with those who are legitimately concerned and affected by our meddling.
We are in essence providing bin Laden with his audience.
There is nothing legitimate about what he says. When you talk about the religious aspect of what they say to each other, it is far less religious than a method of propaganda that we helped to develop when we were breeding anti-Soviet forces back in Carter's administration.
Between the CIA and ISI, religious schools were developed in order to use such religious rhetoric to our "advantage."
Now the product of this indoctrination is coming back to haunt us. None of this is a reflection on the American people other than the fact that perhaps the majority doesn't realize the consequences of such foreign policies and still support them by and large.
At the Libertarian channeling sessions with Thomas Jefferson.