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Freep this poll -- About the burning of the New Testament in Hebrew, in Israel
Jerusalem Post ^ | 12-31-2001 | Jerusalem Post Front Page Poll

Posted on 12/30/2001 5:37:42 PM PST by Harp

Should the school principal who sanctioned the burning of a copy of the New Testament distributed by missionaries be dismissed?


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Reasonable people dispute books they disagree with, they don't immitate Nazi's. The Jerusalem Post wrote an editorial on the subject here: Teach, don't burn (December 28)

Let's put an exclamation point on this, please. The poll is closer than I would have thought.

1 posted on 12/30/2001 5:37:42 PM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
New Testament ping
2 posted on 12/30/2001 5:48:28 PM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
bummpin for Jeeezus
3 posted on 12/30/2001 5:52:35 PM PST by Bogey78O
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To: 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal; TrueBeliever9
Reprimand him, don't dismiss. I read this charming short story last month. The Conversion of the Jews by Philip Roth, from Jewish Short Stories. I'll see if I can find it online. Reminds me of this thread.
4 posted on 12/30/2001 5:56:42 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Harp
While I disagree with the burning (and clicked yes to "dismiss"), I was really surprised to hear this story broadcast on ABC Radio News a couple of days ago.

When an American sixth grade teacher burned an American flag in the classroom and blamed the 9/11 attacks on America, ABC Radio News was silent.

If we are going to discuss religious freedom in the Middle East, how about American media discussing incidents in Egypt or Saudi Arabia?

5 posted on 12/30/2001 6:05:26 PM PST by weegee
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To: Prodigal Daughter
If this occurred last month then why is it making the press rounds at Christmas? Seems divisive to me...
6 posted on 12/30/2001 6:06:28 PM PST by weegee
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To: Harp
Nearly 50% of the respondents do not believe this person should be dismissed.

I wonder if these Jews would be as charitable to a Christian principal that burned the Torah.

7 posted on 12/30/2001 6:11:47 PM PST by Blade
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To: weegee
Also, when Hamas members slit the throats of Moslems who are caught with the New Testament in their possession, we don't hear about it either. Hmmm, could it be global media conspiracy?

Maybe the teacher is traumatized. There's a Messianic Jewish woman (Jewish believer in Jesus) who hated Christianity because when she was a young woman, the Nazis grabbed her baby boy and threw him out the window to his death. She said they had belt buckles that said "In God We Trust" and she said if that is their God, she wants nothing to do with Christianity ever. They sent her to a concentration camp and above the doorway was a sign, "This is your punishment for killing Jesus". Sid Roth (sidroth.org) wrote about her story in his book Time is Running Short, but there are other similar cases.

8 posted on 12/30/2001 6:18:17 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Blade, all
I think an American teacher who so much as made fun of dredyls would get canned.

I can't imagine someone Stateside who burned a copy of the Koran or Torah ever sticking around. He wouldn't last the day.

There's no reason Christians should except anything less than the firing of this guy -- unless we feel our religion is suddenly less worthy than others.

This guy didn't just spit on the Good Book or say it was trash, he went out of his way to make a display of burning it.

9 posted on 12/30/2001 6:29:18 PM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
The racial double standard: we expect tyrannical behavior from others but criticize Jews when they don't act like Jesus.
10 posted on 12/30/2001 6:30:59 PM PST by HockeyPop
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To: Blade
There was a Jewish woman in Israel who was accused of calling a Moslem a pig and she got jail time for hate speech. This is a blip on the radar screen. Time to move on.
11 posted on 12/30/2001 6:34:26 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: HockeyPop
I for one couldn't give a crap what color a person is who does something like this.

The only double standard I see here is the treatment of Christianity versus the treatment of other religions. As has been mentioned, no one would stand quiet if a Christian teacher burned a Torah. We would be sickened by that and asking if the guy was closet KKK. He'd also be out of a job.

12 posted on 12/30/2001 6:39:43 PM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
That's why I'd reprimand him. That would be Christian. Then he might feel bad and consider reading it. But if he keeps it up, then he should be fired.

"Pray for those who persecute you."

Sid Roth, a Jewish believer in Jesus, witnessing in Russia:

Our second stop was Saint Petersburg, Russia. Located in Northwest Russia on the Baltic Sea, Saint Petersburg is a beautiful city of some 4 million people. Spending three days in Saint Petersburg, thousands were saved and dozens of healings took place. As in the other countries, we were followed every where we went but in Russia it was the most obvious and overt. Saint Petersburg is one of the most anti-Semitic regions in the world and Jews are openly hated and persecuted here. We also encountered the greatest resistance here from the Orthodox (Hasidic) Jews who opposed the "Truth" of Messiah Yeshua and the news of His Salvation. Prior to the second scheduled outreach in Saint Petersburg, a group of Hasidic (Orthodox) Jews publicly protested in front of the rented theatre where the word was being preached. They passed out anti-Yeshua flyers, video taped all Jews entering the building, and were chanting Kabala curses over us and the event. The protesters (including the local Hasidic Rabbi) told the attendees that they had been caught on film and would not be allowed to immigrate from Russia to Israel (Aliya). The protestors said the video would be shown to Israeli immigration officials and those attending the outreach would be denied Israel Visa's because they would be labeled as Christians and believers in Yeshua. This was a tactic that was reminisce of the KGB! When we pulled up to the theatre in our taxi Sid said to start taking photographs of the protesters. I began taking pictures as soon as I got out of the cab and this made the protestors extremely agitated but they agreed to cease video taping if I quit taking pictures. We had reached an agreement and the outreach went on as scheduled with hundreds being saved. The hand of man cannot stay the hand of God! We went forward in faith and strength as we prayed I Timothy 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind.", and Hebrews 13:6 "We will say with confidence, the Lord is my helper, I will not be afraid. What can man do unto me?" God is breaking through in Russia, the Russian people are hungry for Him! So many miraculous healings took place that it's hard to recall them all; Club feet, bad hearts, injured backs, injured necks, deafness, etc. . . were all supernaturally healed. When God's Glory falls, signs, wonders, and healings occur. The last city country on our three city tour was Odessa, Ukraine.

Or like one of my favorite Freepers, TrueBeliever9, would say, "Nuke them with prayer!"

13 posted on 12/30/2001 6:40:55 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Prodigal Daughter
That's why I'd reprimand him. That would be Christian.

And you are saying, indirectly, that firing would not be the Christian thing to do? What rot. Actions have consequences. Sin has consequences -- between God and man, obviously, but also between man and man.

I'm all for forgiving (or reprimanding) the guy as one person to another, particularly if he was contrite, but he burned the NT while in his role as a teacher and a leader. Firing him is not going too far -- and it's certainly not unChristian, if that's what you were implying.

14 posted on 12/30/2001 6:54:01 PM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
Let's change the scenario a bit. What would be your reaction if a Hasidic sect of Judaism targeted eleven year old kids with scripture, books, etc. What would be your reaction when your own child began bringing it home? Certainly, I would not believe you would burn it. I just think that targeting children is wrong as is burning any scripture, including the Koran.
15 posted on 12/30/2001 6:54:52 PM PST by HockeyPop
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To: Prodigal Daughter
I went to the Czech Republic this year on a mission through music choir trip. We sang in churches, concert halls, opera houses, and on the street. We had no protests (although the police did not like it when we were singing with the windows open and may have moved our group down the street one time).

We sang secular and religous songs. We performed together with a French choir and a Czech student orchestra. The orchestra conductor tried to limit the number of religous songs in the program. Some people were drawn to us but we did not experience any outward hostility from any who may have been offended or angered.

16 posted on 12/30/2001 6:55:04 PM PST by weegee
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To: HockeyPop
I just think that targeting children is wrong as is burning any scripture, including the Koran.

Actually, it sounds worse to forego a chance at offering someone salvation.

Incidentally, missionaries aren't dragooning these kids off to some Christian mind control camp.

17 posted on 12/30/2001 7:08:02 PM PST by Harp
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To: Prodigal Daughter
Maybe the teacher is traumatized.

So what? There are many Ukrainians who were traumatized by Kaganovitch and are obsessed to the point of mental illnes.OK for them to burn the Talmud?

18 posted on 12/30/2001 7:15:18 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: Harp
"Actually, it sounds worse to forego a chance at offering someone salvation." I have enough problems trying to keep my kids sane from the liberals, and multiculturalist and diversity agendists. When anyone gets in the face of my eleven year old child well, that's where I draw the line.
19 posted on 12/30/2001 7:27:59 PM PST by HockeyPop
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To: HockeyPop
The kid was given the New Testament -- what the other circumstances are, I don't know.

What is not in question, however, is that the teacher burned the New Testament in front of his sixth-grade class. The teacher who did that should be fired.

20 posted on 12/30/2001 7:47:49 PM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
Yes now at 57%!
21 posted on 12/30/2001 10:23:24 PM PST by brat
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To: Harp
Bump. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't see the poll on the link you provided.
22 posted on 12/31/2001 3:23:03 AM PST by Michael2001
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To: Michael2001
Never mind, found it. Proof positive that I am in fact an idiot
23 posted on 12/31/2001 3:36:47 AM PST by Michael2001
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To: Michael2001
;)
24 posted on 12/31/2001 5:19:14 AM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
I'd let the missionaries make the call. I think if they are true missionaries, they'd want to meet with the principal and the teacher and the students, of course. They'd get more positive publicity by explaining publicly what their true motives are and by being gracious to the two Truth burners. Already there are editorials in their favor and most of the public is going to be aware that the New Testament is getting singled out for hostility, which doesn't make logical sense, only spiritual sense. God has a way of working this out when we obey him.

And if the principal and the teacher don't apologize or express remorse, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Dimitru Duduman was a Romanian pastor of Open Doors and you should hear his testimony about smuggling Bibles into Romania and USSR. The irony of the story is that Duduman was the son of a pastor who turned his back on God and was originally employed in the military and part of his duty was to search for Bibles on the ships coming in and report missionaries to the government. A Communist enemy of the gospel who wouldn't stop persecuting the Gospel died in such a way that the other Communists were fearful of God and let Duduman go.

I read about the conversion of Paul and I have always thought about those martyrs that he had killed. Some of them had to have prayed for him right before they got killed. Maybe the martyrs that prayed for Paul were some who witnessed Our Lord's death and heard his words, "Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing."

Because we serve the living God, the Name above all Names, and have His Spirit, we should ask His Spirit for love and forgiveness towards our enemies. At least give them a chance to hear the true gospel, not the lies they've heard about Christianity.

Dana Currey was treated worse in Afghanistan by the enemies of the gospel and she is praying for those who are controlled by principalities and powers.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

25 posted on 12/31/2001 8:09:56 AM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: LarryLied
Educate me please. I don't know much about the Ukraine. Was this Taganovitch guy (sincerely or deceitfully, makes no difference) persecuting them in the name of the Talmud?
26 posted on 12/31/2001 8:12:20 AM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: weegee
That's great. I was in Budapest in July on a personal vacation and I met my second or third cousins. Even though I've been told there are still some 50-60 percent of the population who want Communism back, they are hungry for the gospel there. There was a Bible in my hotel room. I could talk about Jesus to anyone that understood me, but more than that, I noticed many were using terms like "Thank God" "God willing", etc. Those terms weren't used during the time the Communists were in power, people were too afraid. When I went to the apartment house where my relatives used to live to see the place my great grandparents would have known before they came here, there was a pastor listed on the apartment directory.

My husband wanted to go and see Vienna since it was, I think, 3 hours away. It was rich and beautiful but I discerned a spiritual oppression and I couldn't wait to get back to Budapest. I wanted to kiss the ground when I got to the Hungarian border. Recently I found out that witnessing or travelling as missionaries is against the law in Austria, so what you did in Czechoslavakia couldn't be done in Austria. So go figure, doors open and doors close. Ironic that Austria needs our prayers more than Eastern Europe.

27 posted on 12/31/2001 8:23:40 AM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Prodigal Daughter
Of course Christians pray for others, including enemies and those who do them wrong.

The Christian response of loving others and praying does not exclude other actions such as, when justified, putting them in jail or even going to war.

If we were to simply pray and love others and do nothing else, every nation that was largely made up of Christians would be run over and thoroughly abused by other nations. Meanwhile there would be no one in prison because of our obligation to forgive everyone. God made us in His image and that includes acting reasonably and, as best we are able, to do what is just here on earth. In the face of injustice we are not obligated to simply wait for God to sort things out. Our wisdom may be imperfect, but to act as if we have none would be to trade our divine gift for that of animals.

Back to the subject at hand. There may be sizeable number of responses to this teacher which would be considered "Christian." One of those responses is firing the guy, and that's the one, I believe, that does justice to the severity of the act he perpetrated.

28 posted on 12/31/2001 8:36:10 AM PST by Harp
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To: Harp
I'm not advocating pacifism or forgetting about civil justice. I posted this story, The Elim Massacre Revisted once to FR but I can't find it in the archives.

Somehow I don't think this principal or teacher will ever try this stunt again. Make them read the New Testament and quiz them on it. Heap hot coals of fire up on his head and the Lord will reward thee. Proverbs 25:22 and Romans 12:20. That teacher and that principal are going to find out that Jesus is more Jewish than any Jew in Israel. That's what they are inwardly afraid of and that's why they have an aversion to the Gospel. Romans 12:21: Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

29 posted on 12/31/2001 9:12:23 AM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Harp
I lived for a little over three years in Israel. I served in their military and made many friends. No one had a problem with the fact that I was Christian, I still get Christmas cards from some of my friends over there. They have crazies just like we have ours, and I am sure (hope) that they will take care of this "teacher" as quickly as possible
30 posted on 12/31/2001 2:00:33 PM PST by Michael2001
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