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Tortoise stops Army's advance
page A7 of the Boston Globe - Associated Press ^ | 1/1/2002 | Associated Press

Posted on 01/01/2002 5:50:30 AM PST by rface

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:07:13 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

FORT IRWIN, Calif. - With real tanks, fake ammunition, and thousands of troops, ''combat'' on the Army's 643,000-acre training ground in the Mojave Desert amounts to the world's biggest war game.

Now a move to expand the National Training Center to make it even more realistic is being held up by two endangered species - the desert tortoise and a plant called the Lane Mountain milkvetch.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: enviralists; green; michaeldobbs
I'll do the study. It would be more reliable than the fake Lynx study that the liars tried to do.

Ashland, Missouri

1 posted on 01/01/2002 5:50:30 AM PST by rface
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To: rface
''We're not against the Army at all,

Of course not...they're just against the Army getting the proper training they need in order to save their lives one day.

But hey, a species of turtles that I never heard of untill today are more important than the lives of our heroic brave soldiers.

2 posted on 01/01/2002 5:55:33 AM PST by lowbridge
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To: rface
My thoughts too you can not trust them never could never well.
3 posted on 01/01/2002 5:57:54 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: rface
Why doesn't the Army just roll the tanks into the endagered species area? Then what are the animal rights nuts are gonna do about it? Stand in front of the oncoming tanks?
4 posted on 01/01/2002 5:58:13 AM PST by lowbridge
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To: rface
I found a picture of the tortoise!

TROUBLED TORTOISE

5 posted on 01/01/2002 6:00:47 AM PST by stlrocket
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To: rface
The Lynx hair scam causes me to wonder again about how many eoco-whacko "findings" were illegally planted. A lynx hair here, a spotted owl there, a tortoise here, a kangaroo rat there, a sucker fish here, a garter smake there...etc. Think about it.
6 posted on 01/01/2002 6:05:08 AM PST by bobg
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To: rface
The Lynx hair scam causes me to wonder again about how many eoco-whacko "findings" were illegally planted. A lynx hair here, a spotted owl there, a tortoise here, a kangaroo rat there, a sucker fish here, a garter smake there...etc. Think about it.
7 posted on 01/01/2002 6:06:21 AM PST by bobg
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: stlrocket
your link doesn't have any turtle on it
10 posted on 01/01/2002 6:09:04 AM PST by rface
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To: rface
your link doesn't have any turtle on it

That darn wabbit stole it.

11 posted on 01/01/2002 6:13:48 AM PST by lowbridge
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To: brityank
More ESA shenannigans!
12 posted on 01/01/2002 6:20:55 AM PST by TooBusy
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To: TooBusy
Make the enviros that are bitching go capture all the turtles and take care of them on their own property at their own expense. I'd say give them 30 days to do the capture and after that declare that there are so few turtles in the area that they don't count.
13 posted on 01/01/2002 6:28:24 AM PST by dalereed
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To: rface
To late. Tortoise fur has been recovered from several rubbing posts erected in the test area.

Gives a new perspective on the tortoise and the hair story.

14 posted on 01/01/2002 6:28:56 AM PST by biggerten
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To: biggerten
Gives a new perspective on the tortoise and the hair story

LOL!! That was good!

15 posted on 01/01/2002 6:33:06 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: rface
Know how tortoises "do it"?
In...............................................out...............................................in...............................................out.
16 posted on 01/01/2002 6:39:55 AM PST by Valin
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To: rface
I understand that Saddam Hussein has recalled his Republican Guard Mechanized 4th Division and is deploying desert tortoises across his southern and northern fronts.
17 posted on 01/01/2002 6:46:46 AM PST by Woodkirk
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To: rface
The Desert Tortoise has been an issue for years at Ft. Irwin. It is a very well looked after critter. The Army is probably one of the best environmental stewards in the country, at great expense to the taxpayer and at great cost to combat readiness. In the case of the tortoise, there are little leprechaun fences winding through miles of the Mojave Desert in order to keep the tortoises from wandering into the maneuver area where they might get squished by a tank. Soldiers regularly patrol this fence and repair breaks. The Desert Tortoise is thriving at Ft. Irwin, but very hard to find in Barstow or Victorville. I'm sure that they used to be bountiful in Las Vegas, but of course, no more.

Endangered species are tools, used by the radical left to forward their agenda - antimilitary, anticapitalist, antiliberty. Politicians bend to their will because they have the American people convinced that they care about the fuzzy little creatures - nothing could be further from the truth.

18 posted on 01/01/2002 7:00:31 AM PST by centurion316
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To: rface
Is this the Three-Toed Desert Tortoise???

Because a decade ago, I saw a Request For Proposals in _Commerce Business Daily_ soliciting proposals for the "Study of the Three-Toed Desert Tortoise"

I never forgot the ad because it ststed in the requirements that "ONLY Dr. xxxx is an authority on the Three-Toed Desert Tortoise".

I thought something smelled then , and wondered whose relative this guy was.

19 posted on 01/01/2002 7:08:11 AM PST by Gorzaloon
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To: rface
Surely there are some endangered specied in Afghanistan, right? I propose taking a bunch of these enviro-nazis and dropping them off in the middle of Afghanistan so that they can find something good to do with their lives.
20 posted on 01/01/2002 8:21:56 AM PST by Aaron_A
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To: rface
Surely there are some endangered specied in Afghanistan, right? I propose taking a bunch of these enviro-nazis and dropping them off in the middle of Afghanistan so that they can find something good to do with their lives.
21 posted on 01/01/2002 8:22:23 AM PST by Aaron_A
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To: TooBusy; *landgrab; *Green; *Enviralists; farmfriend; marsh2; dixiechick2000; Helen; Mama_Bear...
''We're not against the Army at all, but they've got to be able to continue training in a way that doesn't destroy the landscape,'' said Daniel Patterson, desert biologist for the Center for Biological Diversity.

The Center for Biological Diversity staff listing shows that 20% of them are lawyers, so it's no surprise that, along with the millions of dollars they and other such groups 'acquire' from the federal government and misguided eco-philanthropy groups that in the last year allowed them to invoke law-suits every week:

... and that's just December; there are over 75 listings on their 'Press Release' page for the past year.

I don't know how, but there has to be a way to shut down the government grants and funding that these eco-terrorist groups are stealing from the pockets of the owners of the country.

22 posted on 01/01/2002 9:57:36 AM PST by brityank
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To: brityank;Dog Gone
They ARE the "Sleeper Cells" tormenting and terrorizing the Unites States! Wake up "W," PLEASE!!!
23 posted on 01/01/2002 10:34:01 AM PST by SierraWasp
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To: rface;brityank;Carry_Okie;Roebucks;Grampa Dave;Phil V.;Not gonna take it anymore
"- the desert tortoise and a plant called the Lane Mountain milkvetch."

The CA Native Plant Society has been "planting" seeds on properties they want to stop human ownership and activity on! It is strongly suspected that government flunkies have been lending a helping hand. I'm just waiting for the proof to break in the Washington Times like the hairy lynx article, cause I KNOW it will NEVER appear in the Washington Post!!!

24 posted on 01/01/2002 10:41:44 AM PST by SierraWasp
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To: brityank
I believe university funding would be better spent studying how to cultivate and relocate valuable species. However this is not considered "sexy" research by the enviros, or even most geneticists and biochemists. For example, in my thesis project, I studied use of giberellic acid in germination rates of Lilium canadense var. editorum (a gorgeous 5-6 foot tall native lily). We transplanted some of the seedlings to the arboretum, but I didn't notice any last time I was there.
25 posted on 01/01/2002 10:53:26 AM PST by Helix
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To: SierraWasp
Another tactic is to try for a fast state or national endangered species listing.
26 posted on 01/01/2002 10:55:15 AM PST by Helix
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To: SierraWasp
There already is just such a case in the docket. Don Fife caught the Park Service red handed. Don wanted to mine the parcel for medical grade calcium carbonate. The RICOnuts caught him up in a dispute over "endangered" loco weed. He discovered a memo requesting the Joshua Tree native plant nursery to deliver loco weed seeds for planting on his land. Ironically (and characteristically), loco weed would grow BETTER were he allowed to disturb the surface and start mining.

Turns out that there were competing mines that didn't want him to start. Both are going great guns. Both are owned by foreign multinationals.

27 posted on 01/01/2002 11:34:05 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: brityank
Stop enviro-nazis, now !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed !!

An Armed Citizen, Is A Safe Citizen !!

No Guns, No Rights !!

Molon Labe !!

Happy New Year !!

28 posted on 01/01/2002 12:27:22 PM PST by blackie
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To: centurion316
Both Fort Irwin and the Marine's 29 Palms Air Base would like to expand. This past year the DOD paid USFWS $400 thousand to count tortoises.

Rancher Dave Fisher's BLM allotment is bordered on two sides by DOD land and the counters have authority to count on the BLM land. These counters have been caught counting on the lands that Dave Fisher owns.

Seige of the Tortoise

29 posted on 01/01/2002 12:37:42 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: All

30 posted on 01/01/2002 12:39:45 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: rface
These poor confused turtles should be moved to some of that mosquito breeding wet lands that the environmental dodo's have already ran humans away from. Any turtle that prefers to live in the desert is mentally ill and should be protected from environmentalists who want us to accept this illness as normal.

Wonder how they taste in soup? Probably just like chicken-otherwise they are not really turtles.

31 posted on 01/01/2002 1:25:51 PM PST by F.J. Mitchell
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To: SierraWasp
where are they getting the seeds? Any details on this activity?
32 posted on 01/01/2002 2:17:27 PM PST by rface
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To: rface
See #27. All I have is strong suspicions. They keep trying to shove "Plant Preserves" on Local Government around here and they aren't talkin 'bout Jams & Jellies, either.

Heck, they're so anti-business around here that the plants that need preservin are the kind people work in!!!

33 posted on 01/01/2002 2:46:03 PM PST by SierraWasp
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To: brityank
Thank you for all the information!
34 posted on 01/01/2002 8:01:34 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: rface
Unfortunately, this is not just a Fort Irwin problem. Go to any military installation anywhere and I'll gaurantee you that some environmental group is holding sway over training areas and training airspace.
35 posted on 01/02/2002 6:06:51 AM PST by TADSLOS
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To: rface; SierraWasp
Thanks for this post! These anti America bastards have targeted our military bases for about 2 decades to ham string and restrict their training. The enviral head handlers know that an untrained military is not very capable. Fortunately our military has found ways to get around these enviral anti Americans!

With the success of our military in destroying the Taliban and most of the Al_Queerdos in Afghanistan, you can expect these envirals to step up their actions all over to prevent our military from training. My suggestion is to use Somali, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Lebannon, Lybia and other Islamic fanatic areas as "Free Fire training grounds and use Daisy Cutters on any envirals found in these areas!

SW, the seeds of rare plants has been a fairly obvious "plant" scheme of the envirals here on the West Coast. The answer is to reproduce these plants using dna and good agriculture and plant so damn many seeds that they aren't rare anymore!

Of course if the envirals infesting the various departments want to get you, they don't need to even have signs of past critter or present critters.

I have a friend who owns a office complex near a seasonal stream. He and other property owners wanted to put out sand bags along parts of the stream during our wet winters to prevent flashfloods. Then in late spring they would remove the sandbags until the next heavy rainy season!

They were told by the various critter lovers that the stream was probably inhabited by the famous Red Legged frog.

My friend and other land owners spent a lot of money with a legit frog checking outfit. The legit frog checking outfit said that they could not find any indication that Red Legged Frogs were alive around the seasonal stream or that they had ever lived there in the last several hundred years.

My friend and the other land owners were told by these enviral Nazis that their study did not count.

Even if there was no sign that red legged frogs had ever been in this area, it looked like a place that the Red Legged Frog would like to live on/in. Therefore they could not allow seasonal sand bagging to prevent flooding.

This area just missed severe flooding yesterday by a couple of inches! A little more rain or a higher tide would have been a flood disaster that could have been avoided!

36 posted on 01/03/2002 1:03:13 PM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
Yup! It's all about them stopping "Urban Sprawl" while they encourage "Government Sprawl!"

I know 'bout that there Napa River floodin, bigtime!!! Used to live in St. Helena, then Napa in the 1960's. That river sure stunk in those days!!! Now, EnvironMentalism has become over-ripe and it STINKS!!!

You are so correct in your analysis, especially as regards the military preparedness. Keep on rantin! I still love it!!! (I liked you're "NANNY NAZI'S" best)

37 posted on 01/03/2002 4:43:12 PM PST by SierraWasp
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To: SierraWasp
This red legged frog debacle that I posted about has opened the eyes of several mild mannered conservatives and moderates about the envirals!

Route 12, Jamieson Canyon Road, between Napa and I80 east of Fairfield has become a death trap. The local Nazi Nannies were quietly blocking any new road work to widen the road. A group of us started an underground tactic of "If a family member or friend dies in a traffice accident on Jamieson Canyon Road, you want to blame the enviral Nazi Nannies and the big envirals protecting the Red Legged Frog that ain't there!"

In about two weeks after this unofficial campaign, the biggie enviral org of Nazi Nannies said that they were not against making the road safer! I told one of them that if I found out that they were working in the background to keep the road from being made safe, I would get hold of the meanest and vilest lawyer to sue him and his group for everything he owned and his group owned. I think that he soiled his Depends as I stared at him during and after my comments!

38 posted on 01/04/2002 7:56:33 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: Valin
I see you've read Executive Orders and/or The Bear and the Dragon.
39 posted on 01/04/2002 7:59:51 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Grampa Dave
"Route 12, Jamieson Canyon Road, between Napa and I80 east of Fairfield has become a death trap."

That infamous Route12 is what brought me to the Napa Valley in 1964. A fully loaded cut lumber truck hit my father-in-law's Nash rambler head-on in 1964 and killed not only him, but his adult daughter, along with 2 or her 4 kids. My mother-in-law died soon after and all the funerals and the need for my spouse to care for her mom brought us speeding out here.

While on the way here, I stopped to visit my long-lost cousin in Auburn and she took me over to see where LBJ had just signed the bill authorizing Auburn Dam. Little did I know then how involved in the fight to finish that project I would eventually become. Hell, it got 2/3rds done before the Fiends of the River and Commercial Whitewater Rafting Corporations made up of spoiled brats, stuck in the 60's with their heads up Moonbeam's differential, claiming to be enviralists... killed it!

I don't know, Dave... how desperate does the energy problem and the resultant economic pressure have to get before the people finally wake up?

40 posted on 01/04/2002 6:02:28 PM PST by SierraWasp
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To: SierraWasp
I had a long reply and the slowness of FR this morning actually broke my connection.

Short version, sorry to hear about your own personal tragedy re rt 12/Jameson Canyon. The road is now even more dangerous as about half the new workers in Napa during the Clintoon's high interest era, can't afford a home in Napa. The traffic patterns are now reversed with heavy dangerous traffic oozing into Napa during the Am and oozing out during the pm. I returned from fly fishing on the American yesterday evening and it was bumper to bumper from I80 to just South of Napa at 6+pm.

To try and answer this from you: I don't know, Dave... how desperate does the energy problem and the resultant economic pressure have to get before the people finally wake up?

One of my constant posts/replies is that for any ism, (socialism, facism, communism, liberalism), to survive, the ism must have control of the mediots and the media.

We know about the media here in Kalifornia. They are nothing but PR flacks or worse for the demonicRats like Davis and his band of sexual perverts in the legislature! So the mediots and media enable these criminals and perverts to remain in office!

Last but not least the failed educational system in Kali is nothing but a voting cult and fund raiser for the demonicrats. The so called graduates of high school and most colleges can't read and understand anything complicated. They have no thought processes beside White Christians/Jew men = evil. Dirty perverted life stylers = good! Then throw in about 7 million illegal aliens who can't even speak nor read English and who vote for the demonicRats, you have Kalifornia!

We understand on Free Republic, but our fellow Kalis have no concept nor understanding of the criminal actions of Davis and his perverts in the legislature!

It is a slow and uphill battle!

41 posted on 01/05/2002 9:12:01 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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