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Meteor Clue To End Of Middle East Civilisations
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 11-04-2001 | Robert Matthews

Posted on 01/03/2002 10:50:09 PM PST by blam

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To: ALASKA

Carolina Bays (300,000-500,000 of these)

51 posted on 01/05/2002 1:58:02 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Thanks blam. ;9)
52 posted on 01/05/2002 2:06:33 PM PST by Ditter
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To: blam
Natural Catastrophes during Bronze Age Civilisations: The SIS Cambridge Conference 1997

Mark Bailey:

"Near-Earth objects (NEOs) comprise a heterogeneous population of objects from a variety of sources ranging from long-period comets to the main asteroid belt. Recent dynamical results show that the orbits are chaotic, and that comets may in principle evolve into orbits similar to those of objects usually classified as asteroids (and vice-versa), and that comets and asteroids may resemble one another depending on the phase of their physical evolution and heliocentric distance."

Marie-Agnes Courty:

"Test on various late Third millennium BC archaeological deposit provides evidence for the regional occurrence in northern Syria of a layer with an uncommon petrographic assemblage, dated at ca. 2350 BC. It consists of fine sand-sized, well-sorted spherules of various composition, millimetric sized fragments of a black, vesicular, amorphous material made of silicates with Mg-Ca carbonate and phosphate inclusions, ovoid micro-aggregates made of densely packed crystals and exogenous angular fragments of a coarse crystallised igneous rock. All these particles are only present in this specific layer and are finely mixed with mud-brick debris or with a burnt surface horizon in the contemporaneous soils. In occupation sequences, the layer displays an uncommon dense packing of sand-sized, very porous aggregates that suggests disintegration of the mud-brick construction by an air blast. In the virgin soil, the burnt horizon contains black soot and graphite, and appears to have been instantaneously fossilized by a rapid and uncommon colluvial wash. Occurrence in a previously recorded thick tephra deposit of particles identical to some of the mysterious layer and resemblance of its original pseudo-sand fabric with the exploded one of the mysterious layer confirms that the later is contemporaneous with the tephra deposit. ... The restricted occurrence of the [tephra deposit] suggests that the massive tephra accumulation can no longer be considered as a typical fallout derived from the dispersion of material from a terrestrial volcanic explosion. ... Origin of this mysterious phenomena still remains unsolved."

Courty continues that this new dating causes the Akkad empire sudden collapse theory, based on an abrupt climate change, to lose its basis. I see however that the evidence of a great cataclysm between 2200 BC and 2190 BC is so compelling that on this basis we can't dismiss it. On the other hand, Courty is right in her theory of a major occurrence which I would date between 2350 BC and 2340 BC. When the External Collapse Theory (ECT) was first introduced in the late 1980's or early 1990's, the proponents talked about an event ca. 2300 BC. The 1994 SIS Conference talked about a 2200 BC event. In the Cambridge Conference 1997 and elsewhere also there has been an accumulating evidence of some event around 2350 BC besides the 2200 BC event. I suggest that there really were two disparate events, a local one in Near East 2200-2190 BC and 150 years later, 2200-2190 BC, a global one.

Mike Baillie:

"In 1988 the observation was made that narrowest-ring events in Irish sub-fossil oak chronologies appeared to line up with large acidities in the Greenland ice records from Camp Century and Dye3. Three of the events, at tree-ring ages 2345 BC, 1628 BC and 1159 BC turned out to be of particular interest as they contributed to debates on the Hekla 4 eruption in Iceland, Santorini [Thera] in the Aegean, and, possibly, Hekla 3..."

I think there are good grounds to combine the 1628 BC event with Santorini/Thera, but Hekla 4 looks like a later event, ca. 2300 BC, and vice versa the 2350 BC event doesn't look like a volcanic event. Also the connection between Hekla 3 and the 1159 BC event is questionable, because of its larger context from Mycenean to Shang dynasty China.

Baillie has later come to the conclusion that only 1628 BC is volcano-based, but 2345BC and 1159BC are not.

Benny Peiser:

"...Most sites in Greece (ca.260), Anatolia (ca.350), the Levant (ca.200), Mesopotamia (ca.30), the Indian subcontinent (ca.230), China (ca.20), Persia/Afghanistan (ca.50), Iberia (ca.70) which collapsed at around 2200+-200 BC, exhibit unambiguous signs of natural calamities and/or rapid abandonment. The proxy data detected in the marine, terrestrial, biological and archaeological records point to sudden ecological, climatic and social upheavals which appear to coincide with simultaneous sea- and lake-level changes, increased levels of seismic activity and widespread flood/tsunami disasters. The main problem in interconnecting this vast amount of data chronologically is the application of incoherent and imprecise dating methods in different areas of geological and climatological research..."

TN

I would like to add Finland to this list: The population here dropped suddenly to third of its previous value sometimes between 2400 BC and 2000 BC (Turku University).

Another aspect of this is that if there ever was a real (pre)historical background for the flood- and other catastrophe stories, including Plato's Timaios and Critias and the Oera Linda book. The flood stories in Genesis, Plato and Oera Linda may have got some of their content from the evident Atlantic tsunami in 2200-2190 BC, although I consider the main flood originator both in general and especially Atrahasis/Gilgames/Genesis something that happened about 3100 BC.

Two separate cataclysms

So it seems that there were two separate cataclysms in the latter part of the third millennium BC.

The period of Sargon, from 2334 BC to 2279 BC, was very prosperous. Under the reign of Naram-Sin from 2254 BC to 2218 BC everything still seemed "normal". Akkadian Sumer was a welfare state in its own way during those times. If the Anatolian event of 2345 BC was a local one, it neatly explains Sargon's attack on the south of Anatolia, because of the havoc in north, and also the prosperity that followed when the highly civilized Akkadian culture moved south. In fact before 2345 BC there was not any big difference between Northern and Southern Mesopotamia. But when the North was in Chaos, this meant both welfare and difficulties for the South. The population increased suddenly, which stressed the food supply seems to have driven hungry people still farther to the south, towards Egypt. Still Sumer prospered. But 150 years later all this came to an abrupt end. The reign of Shar-Kali-Sharri was interrupted suddenly into a chaos in 2193 BC .

How about Egypt? The end of the Old Kingdom of Egypt is surrounded by many uncertainties. Modern Egyptologists originally thought that its last king was Pepi II, whose reign began about 2250 BC. Later his reign was counted as having lasted 90 years. Still later they added two more kings, Intiemsaef II and Neithkeret. If we accept the original estimate that Pepi II was the last Old Kingdom king, and if we take as a tentative theory that the catastrophe also happened in Egypt in 2193 BC, it still gives Pepi a reign of some 60 years.

So there seems to be a difference between the 2350 BC and 2200 BC events. I suggest that the 2350 BC event was local, an Anatolian event, from the Aegean to the Caspian. The 2200 BC event was global, as seen by the evidence from Iberia to China. The Rio Cuarto impact in Argentina seems also to have happened during the latter part of the third millennium BC. Unable to destroy Tell Leilan and leave surroundings untouched, I would link it rather to the 2200 BC event. With its 50 km long and 10 km wide destruction path consisting of 11 craters (the largest one is 4.5 km long and 1.1 km wide) it must have had global consequences. Because of its different direction (nearly north to south) and different latitude of impact at 20 degrees S would however hint that it was a third and separate event during the series of catastrophes during the late third millennium BC. Be it connected to either of the mentioned cataclysms or a separate one in the late third millennium, one thing is sure: it must have had wordwide consequences, especially climatological. A flood event it was not, because it happened right in the middle of South America. But it itself was a multiple event and can have been accompanied by some debris that fall into Atl

In fact Greek mythology speaks of three flood events, of which the Ogyges and Deucalion legends are the most famous. Ogyges would then be the Anatolian event of 2345 BC and Deucalion event the global event of 2193-2194 BC. The third would be that of Atrahasis and Gilgames (the precursor for the Noachian flood) but because it happened in the first part of the unlucky third millennium BC, it is not considered here.

But let's go back to the 2200 BC event. In China a ruler named Yu, who has been praised of attempts to stop floods in China, reigned according to the standard chronology from 2205 BC to 2197 BC. The legend tells that at the time of the birth of Abra(ha)m there was a guest star (supernova). Bamboo Annals give one in 2287 BC. Again according to legend Abraham was of age 99, when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. If we take this literally we get the year 2188 BC, but of course the 99 years could also mean "nearly 100".

Marie-Agnes Court (The Soil Record of an Exceptional Event at 4000 BP in the Middle East (Natural Catastrophes During Bronze Age Civilisations, ed. Benny Peiser et al., Oxford 1998)), whose excavations at Tell Leilan in Northern Syria has led to two layers of burnt soil, whose calibrations (from radiocarbon age) yield ages of 4400-3900 BC and 4800-4300 BC, open also the above two windows. Benny Peiser ("Comparative Analysis of Late Holocene Upheaval") says that "Floodplain deposits of up to 3 metres thick and stretching up to 15 kilometres inland have been detected between Tirys and Mycenae" dated to ca. 2200-2300 BC.

Now there is a very interesting coincidence. There exists one very old Frisian manuscript named the Oera Linda book. It was found in 1820, but the scientific community condemned it as a forgery in 1871. We can ask if that was too hasty a conclusion. One of the reasons the issue should be reconsidered is that the book is some kind of a diary from the third millennium BC to about 500 BC. Right in the beginning is mentioned "The destruction of Atland" in 2194 BC. It describes the paradise before that, the year 2194 "when the bad days came", the escape of Atlanders first to Crete, where they founded their culture, the Minoan culture.

Sodom and Gomorrah

There have been excavations on the Lisan peninsula, which nearly cuts the southern part of the Dead Sea off from the rest of it. It is also different from the main Dead Sea in that it's mean depth is very different from the rest of the Dead Sea, only 10 m in average. It seems that there was a great catastrophe around 2200 BC that has destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The surface of the Dead Sea dropped suddenly by 100m around 2200 BC (Frumkin et al., The Holocene 1.3, 1991). If we take the story in Genesis for what it seems to indicate, the whole southern part of the Dead Sea may be an impact crater that was caused by a cosmic disaster, one piece in the 2200 BC disaster.

53 posted on 01/05/2002 2:46:19 PM PST by blam
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To: ALASKA
You don't see many here though.

That would be because has hydrology and a decent atmosphere that weathers at exposed rock.

The irony would be if Arizona got pasted at Meteor crater again.

54 posted on 01/05/2002 3:19:59 PM PST by Centurion2000
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To: blam
OK, OK, but I don't see any overlaps if we're going to get persnickedy. Looks more like Viet Nam to me anyway.
55 posted on 01/05/2002 7:51:45 PM PST by ALASKA
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To: ALASKA
Carolina Bays, The Whole Story
56 posted on 01/05/2002 9:11:04 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Sunday morning bump.
57 posted on 01/06/2002 7:16:05 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
>I have travelled through the Red Sea a number of times, many years ago.

Blam, what were you doing at the Red Sea? I've been throughout most of Israel but never quite made it to the Red Sea.

58 posted on 01/06/2002 11:44:05 AM PST by LostTribe
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To: LostTribe
"Blam, what were you doing at the Red Sea? I've been throughout most of Israel but never quite made it to the Red Sea."

In my youth, first the Navy then as a merchant seaman. I still have a bronze statue of Nefertiti I picked up in Cairo in the early sixties. My dogs are named "Tutt" (King Tutencharmen(sp), "Ra", "Nef" (Nefertiti) and "Solo" (King Solomon) has passed on. I broke the Egyptian dog naming cycle by naming my last dog "boots." lol.

59 posted on 01/06/2002 12:05:55 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
>broke the Egyptian dog naming cycle by naming my last dog "boots." lol.

You can name the next one after a tree ring.

60 posted on 01/06/2002 12:13:20 PM PST by LostTribe
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
Fascinating and well done! Thank you for posting this.
62 posted on 01/06/2002 1:41:28 PM PST by Lady Jag
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To: LostTribe
"You can name the next one after a tree ring."

Good idea. Maybe I'll name him/her 'Baillie' after the Irish dendrochronologist, Mike Baillie, huh?

63 posted on 01/06/2002 2:33:07 PM PST by blam
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To: LostTribe
Go gcreime scata Fomhórach ólta do dhea-chlú.
64 posted on 01/06/2002 3:37:29 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
>Go gcreime scata Fomhórach ólta do dhea-chlú.

Works for me. ggg.

65 posted on 01/06/2002 4:23:23 PM PST by LostTribe
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To: SunkenCiv

2004 bump.


66 posted on 07/18/2004 6:12:45 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
C'mon, that ain't no crater. It's a Mickey Mouse head!

Looks like three circles to me.

67 posted on 07/18/2004 6:22:10 PM PDT by FixitGuy
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To: *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; blam; FairOpinion; farmfriend; StayAt HomeMother
Thanks Blam. I'm adding it to the GGG list, but not pingin' everyone.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list -- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

68 posted on 07/18/2004 6:25:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: blam
"SCIENTISTS have found the first evidence that a devastating meteor impact in the Middle East might have triggered the mysterious collapse of civilisations more than 4,000 years ago.

First evidence? Nevermind that the Bible records a global flood 4000 years ago. Anything in a religious work can't be the truth because everyone knows that there are NO true religions /sarcasm off.

69 posted on 07/18/2004 6:28:13 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: RadioAstronomer

Thought you might enjoy this one.


70 posted on 07/18/2004 6:30:16 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: darkseid
The following article compares Noah's flood to Gigamish and concludes that Gilgamish is the obvious copy and Noah the original.

Noah vs Gilgamish

71 posted on 07/18/2004 6:38:44 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
There are over 500 flood stories worldwide that are similar to Noah's flood. There are 2-3 in the Middle-East alone that are 500 years older than the Gilgamesh/Noah story. For some interesting reading on this subject, I suggest this book:


72 posted on 07/18/2004 6:52:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

500 flood stories worldwide. And "scientists" still deny it happened.


73 posted on 07/19/2004 7:33:15 AM PDT by DannyTN
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

74 posted on 09/19/2005 9:00:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: blam

Bump


75 posted on 06/03/2006 4:30:38 PM PDT by southland (George Wallace said there was not a dime's worth of difference in either party)
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Catastrophism

76 posted on 08/06/2006 7:18:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, July 27, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Catastrophic event preceded Dark Ages - scientist
Miscellaneous News Keywords: SCIENCE HISTORY IMAGINATION
Source: Reuters
Posted on 09/08/2000 10:06:44 PDT by VadeRetro
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39b91ca42b27.htm

Did Asteroids And Comets Turn The Tides Of Civilization?
Discovering Archaeology | July/August 1999 | Mike Baillie
Posted on 07/11/2002 4:56:44 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/714636/posts

Evidence for Major Impact Events in the late Third Millennium BC
Evidence of Astronomical Aspects of Mankind's Past and Recent Climate Homepage
FR Post 9-4-2 | Timo Niroma
Posted on 09/04/2002 7:48:54 PM EDT by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744698/posts

An Impact Event in 3114BC? The beginning of a Turbulent Millennium.
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari3.htm#bc3114
Posted on 01/03/2003 11:06:06 PM EST by ckilmer
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/816604/posts

The Dark Ages: Were They Darker Than We Imagined?
The Universe | 9-1999 | Greg Bryant
Posted on 06/09/2003 1:31:29 AM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/925578/posts

Astronomers unravel a mystery of the Dark Ages
EurekAlert | 3-Feb-2004 | Dr Derek Ward-Thompson
Posted on 02/03/2004 5:54:24 PM EST by ckilmer
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1070892/posts

reprise:

Meteor Clue To End Of Middle East Civilisations
The Telegraph (UK) | 4-11-2001 | Robert Matthews
Posted on 06/08/2003 10:17:12 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/925512/posts

vaguely related:

Archaeologists Unearth 1,700 Year-Old Canal System Near Lake Okeechobee (Florida)
Sun- Sentinel | 6-6-2002 | Rhonda Miller
Posted on 06/07/2002 5:13:56 PM EDT by blam
Edited on 09/03/2002 7:50:36 AM EDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/696466/posts


77 posted on 08/06/2006 7:24:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, July 27, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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one more:

Comets,Meteors & Myth: New Evidence For Toppled Civilizations And Bibical Tales
Science Tuesday/Space.com | 11-13-2002 | Robert Roy Britt
Posted on 08/11/2002 8:32:56 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/731502/posts


78 posted on 08/06/2006 7:30:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, July 27, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

I think Islam had a lot more to do with the end of Middle Eastern civilization.


79 posted on 08/06/2006 7:32:43 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: blam
The SIS Cambridge Conference 1997

I really miss that site.

80 posted on 08/06/2006 8:34:56 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (I'll have the duck with mango salsa.)
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Catastrophism
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Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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81 posted on 07/13/2008 10:03:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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