Arizona 14 yr. olds disciplined for HUGGING on campus

Arizona Republic | Jan. 25, 2002 | Peter Ortiz

[Lizavetta]

TEMPE - For 14-year-olds Collin Neal and Jessamy Benington, it was just an innocent hug between friends. The Connolly Middle School eighth-graders were on the Tempe campus Jan. 15 when they embraced for a couple of seconds before running off to basketball and cheerleading practice. The next day they learned the penalty for violating the school's rule on displays of affection: Three days of in-school intervention and 10 days' probation.

"There are other kids who get in fights and get away with way more, and all I did was give her a hug," Neal said. "I think what they could have done is warn me and said 'you can't give her a hug.'"

During in-school intervention, students go to school but also attend a special class. Probation includes being barred from extra-curricular activities.

Neal and Benington were given warnings for two previous incidents, said Principal Sue Savaglio Jarvis, who would not discuss the nature of those warnings.

Savaglio Jarvis said she waived the students' 10-day probation. There may have been "miscommunication" as to what constitutes a warning in the eyes of staff and the students, the principal said. "The teacher may say, 'OK guys, knock it off,'" Savaglio Jarvis said. That teacher may consider that a warning while the students don't, she said.

According to the Connolly Student-Parent Handbook: "Students may NOT hold hands nor demonstrate other outward displays of affection such as kissing, hugging or embracing." Neal's father, Gary, said that his son makes A's and B's and was selected as a student of the month last May.

He contends too much has been made of the incident. Benington's mother, Dee, said her daughter scores top grades and is vice president of the student council. She said her daughter was prepared to accept the punishment but still felt it was unfair.

[Lizavetta]

According to the Connolly Student-Parent Handbook: "Students may NOT hold hands nor demonstrate other outward displays of affection such as kissing, hugging or embracing."

.....unless they're gay and exploring their sexuality.

[Rain-maker]

This is a crock. Sounds like Stalin is running the school board.

Depersonalization keyword here!

[Jefferson Adams]

.....unless they're gay and exploring their sexuality.

Exactly.

I wonder if the school gives out condoms and does demos on how to put them on?

[DoughtyOne]

Thank heaven the school campus has been saved from another tragedy. In a world where there are shootings on campuses across this nation, there's no place for this kind of nonsense. These children should be dealt with severely. I think they got off too light. < /lunacy >

[sheik yerbouty]

The PC taliban are the children of Stalin!

[HennepinPrisoner]

This happened in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota as well. The school made a ‘no hugging’ policy. Then when ABC, CBS, and NBC morning shows called the principal for an on-air interview, they retracted and denied that they tried to make a ‘no hugging’ policy.

[Red Jones]

look at all these republicans telling us we should throw tons of money at the public schools and then prevent school choice at the same time, give all power in the education industry to the public school bureaucrats whom are known to give us dysfunctional schools.

[HennepinPrisoner]

Minnesota School Bans Hugging

[goodnesswins]

NO, just show them porn movies, and then BAN hugging. Sheesh. Oh, that's right, I was expecting LOGIC in an educational setting. DUH. Dumb me.

[Salvation]

Unbelievable story.

[Salvation]

This happened in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota as well. The school made a ‘no hugging’ policy. Then when ABC, CBS, and NBC morning shows called the principal for an on-air interview, they retracted and denied that they tried to make a ‘no hugging’ policy.

Maybe we need to contact the major networks again!!!!

[shellylet]

That along with where to go to get an abortion and avoid your parents finding out. And they call CA nuts!

[Salvation]

Contact FoxNews Channel.

[jalisco555]

My 17 year-old son was recently in a school play at his high school. All the kids did a great job. After the play was over the kids were all hugging each other and telling each other how well they performed. It was really a beautiful sight. Whoever makes rules like this is an idiot.

[the]

"Students may NOT hold hands nor demonstrate other outward displays of affection such as kissing, hugging or embracing."

Affection.

They are banning affection.

They have transcended the physical and now they are going after emotions.

It wasn't enough that they were attack ideas, logic and free thought, now they are attacking emotions.

[Melinator]

Persecuting school children in this manner should be a crime, punishable by kicking the principal's teeth in. Seriously.

[Enough_Deceit]

My boys went to this school. I call it "Lord of the Flies Junior High." I had some problems with one of my sons. He is high functioning autistic and doesn't deal well with other kids sometimes. The other kids sense that and he has been a target this year. I pulled both he and his brother out of there right before Christmas break and am now homeschooling them. The other brother that I pulled out goes there for one hour a day to finish a science project that his Honor Science team had started having to do with a simulated city that they have designed. Today is his last day doing that.

On the whole, the school probably isn't worse than any other junior high school. I just wanted to bring my boys home. I didn't like the influence of the other kids that attend there. There were some really creepy kids.

I have had many dealings with the principal. We have our differences of opinion, but I have always found her to be fair. She has gone out of her way to accomodate me as a parent. And that isn't easy, as I am a "take no prisoners kind of gal." She was always down to earth and pretty sensible. I know the family of one of the kids in the story. They are very good people as well.

I am really glad that my boys don't go there anymore. I didn't like what was taught there (usual PC crap), and I didn't like my children being "taught" by the other kids there. However, my sons sometimes are displeased with their "new teacher." :-) Take care and God bless.

[Dimensio]

.....unless they're gay and exploring their sexuality.

Unless you can provide documentation of the school excercising such a double-standard, this is as much nonsense as the existing policy.

[Teacher317]

outward displays of affection such as kissing, hugging or embracing."

Affection. They are banning affection. They have transcended the physical and now they are going after emotions.

Sorry, but the school is banning the display, which is an action, not an emotion. Many posters here answer their own questions... if hugging is allowed for heterosexual couples, then you must allow it for gay couples. Also, the kids can take it too far, as teen are wont to do, and the 'hugging' can easily get carried further... including groping, hip-thrusting, and even moaning out loud and making a sexual spectacle. The rule as written is the easiest way to avoid all of these possibilities. Obviously this isn't a stupid zero-tolerance rule as they were repeatedly warned, and often teacher would 'break it up' but not take any action. I think the school finally had enough of PDA, and is starting to enforce the rules. These honor students (aren't they all?) will be more careful and thoughful about their behaviors in public... and that's a good thing.

Also, especially with my high schoolers, I usually justify most of these kinds of rules (foul language by the upper-classmen is the most frequently questioned and rarely-enforced rule at my school) by saying that we are training them for the professional workplace. If you work with your girlfriend, can you hug, kiss, and touch at will? Or is it imntelligent to wait for some privacy before doing so? If they didn't look for some decorum, I would hate to see what kind of environment most restaurants would become, if they're the same way they were when I was a younger adult.

[freeeee]

School is a place for learning.

So let's take a guess at the lesson these kids learned. Was it:

A) Hugging is wrong. I'm not smart enough to know that, but I'm lucky enough to have adults around me that do.

B) The people who make the rules in my school have their heads firmly implanted up their @ss. I will never again respect the school's authority, because those in charge of it are foolish control-freaks whose feeble minds are devoid of all reason and logic. If they don't know enough not to make an issue about hugging, how can I possibly trust their judgment when real issues like sex and drugs come up? Clearly I can't rely on their poor judgement so I'll look elsewhere for guidance when making difficult real-life choices.

You know, I'm not completely sure which lesson was learned, but I'm leaning towards 'B'.

[Republican Wildcat]

That is certainly a good way to put this stupidity in perspective.

[hsmomx3]

This is ridiculous. Seems they are more intent on focusing on this trivial stuff than teaching kids the 3R's.

[hsmomx3]

If there is a school shooting, then they will more than likely allow kids to hug, pray,etc. Foolishness!!

[hsmomx3]

Guess what? I went to this school 29 years ago and I have to tell you, it was weird back then. It was an "open" campus setting where there were no classrooms, everything was out in the open, like one huge classroom. Total chaos and I hated it. Didn't learn anything either.

[Protagoras]

A perfect example of why government schools should be abolished.

[snowfox]

Have you ever seen the original Naked Gun? Yeah, something like that, and it would be just as funny.

[Angelique]

Neal and Benington were given warnings for two previous incidents

I see nothing wrong with the discipline of the two kids--they ignored the warnings, and broke the rules. What is worse, the parents are telling their kids that it is OK to break the rules.

If the parents thought the rule was stupid, then they should have followed the proper avenue to have the rule changed. As far as gay students, it sounds as though there is no such allowance for such behavior.

Has anyone thought about the definition of a hug? It could have quite a range. The children are in school to learn, and to prepare them for life experiences. For example, if two employees were dating, and gave hugs to one another in their place of employment, they'd be fired after two warnings not to do so had been issued.

[TexasRepublic]

Schools are the vanguard of cultural re-shaping. If you are conservative, straight, white or Christian, you will forced into conformity, or else.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you.

[axxmann]

Where the H_ll do you work?

[Bobby777]

well, it's not like we have terrorists or anything running wild in the world ... thank God these two kids were stopped before they started holding hands or *gasp* even *kissing* ... it could bring down all of Western Civilization as we know it ... Barney Fife was there to "nip it in the bud" and I salute him ... [/sarcasm]

should be on next week's episode of "Real Stories of the Public Display of Affection Police" ... real kids, real hugging, real DANGER!!!

further proof of the idiocy of the NEA and what it has done to schools ...

[NormsRevenge]

PC=Pretty Clueless

[dpa5923]

I will probably be flamed with you, but I fall squarely in your camp on this one. If this had been two "gay" students and nothing was done after repeated warnings, the call would be to fire the principal for allowing such deviant and immoral behavior.

The children were warned repeatedly, the school is attempting to provide a somewhat decent environment for all students, and the students will hopefully learn there is a time and place for things and school may not be the best place for certain things.

An early poster mentioned students hugging after a play. I imagine, based on the repeated warnings from the teachers, such hugs would be allowed, but not a week later.

Oh well, I hope you have your flame retardant suit on.

[Angelique]

Where the H_ll do you work?

This is obviously a rhetorical question. However, perhaps you were doing too much hugging in school, because I did not say this was MY workplace. Perhaps you would like to expound on your workplace to enlighten me.

[Quilla]

My children attend a small, private Christian school (400 students, K-12). Their student handbook outlines what penalties are received for PDA's - public displays of affection. I think the punishment is two demerits where an accumulation of four (for whatever infractions) in one day requires staying after school for 30 minutes. PDA's include holding hands, hugging, and kissing - behavior I do not consider appropriate for school. However, I have seen my own children hug each other and their friends right in front of the principal - I'm thinking, oh my gosh, we're in trouble now. But, this wise administrator used common sense when enforcing the rule and considered the innocence of the acts.

Incidentally, I have fourteen gentlemen who work for me. Four of them volunteered to work late one afternoon this week and hustled to meet a shipping deadline. I hugged each one of them.

[Redcloak]

Oh sure... just an innocent hug, right. That's what they all say. It starts with hugging, but how are you going to feel when it gets right to wearing leather hats and whacking each other with latex fish? Hmmm????

[Tumbleweed_Connection]

.....unless they're gay and exploring their sexuality.

No, unless their Rat politician has come to visit. All in the memory of the great Clinton.

[Angelique]

I had not read your post when I gave my reply, but have gone back to review this thread to see if anyone agreed with my point of view. Thank heavens!

We are in complete agreement. What is most troublesome is not just the fact that many here think it is OK to overlook the rules, but that the circumstances are mitigated since there are school shootings, etc. With that rationale, then it is perfectly all right to commit misdemeanor crimes since there are so many felonies perpetrated.

[breakem]

I agree. Kids are in school to learn and this scholl is teaching you can get away with stupidity if you have power.

[Angelique]

Thank you. I thought I was in some Orwellian movie, here, for a minute. Listening to all the complaints about the decay of the public school system, it is evident that this pancake needs to be flipped.

[MortMan]

I'm afraid I have to jump squarely in the middle here.

IFF (not a typo - it means "if and ONLY if") the PDA limitation rules are evenly applied in all situations, then the Principal did her job, even considering the innocence of this particular situation.

However, there does appear to be some irregularity in the school's handling of the "warnings" cited by the principal:

There may have been "miscommunication" as to what constitutes a warning in the eyes of staff and the students, the principal said. "The teacher may say, 'OK guys, knock it off,'" Savaglio Jarvis said. That teacher may consider that a warning while the students don't, she said.

This certainly sounds to me like a case of "double secret probation" (a la Animal House). Any policy such as this that is instructive in its intent needs to carry a clearly delineated warning with it, if any warnings are permitted at all. If the "warnings" are susceptible to misinterpretation, then there is no warning mechanism.

Finally, I agree with an earlier comment that those who disagree with the policy should not encourage breaking the rules (this is not a life-and-death case, nor a violation of decent moral standards), but should instead take the matter up with the Principal and the rest of the school's governing body.

[Angelique]

I certainly understand there are variations in what constitutes a "hug," but in the instance described, after warnings, the children chose to ignore the rules. Referencing you hugging the men who stayed late to meet a deadline, that is your call as their boss. I must ask you, however, if you had another woman in the office who was dating one of the men, and they kept hugging, would you allow it? Moreover, today, one must use the utmost precaution for fear of being slapped with a sexual harrassment suit.

[Khepera]

We have the same rule where I work. I think it is appropriate in the work environment. We send our children to school to learn to cope in the work environment. The Consequence may have been a little harsh but the rule will serve them well to follow in life. In today’s litigious environment that behavior is risky at best. If you do not have these restrictions where you work then that’s fine but it is not the norm.

[Quilla]

I'm in agreement with your posts. It all boils down to the meaning of appropriate and the applicable guidelines. Yet, it seems as though common sense is being replaced with the notion of political correctectness. For instance, the recent story of 10 day suspension received by a little girl for bringing a chain-laden tweety toy to school - no common sense entered into that (weapon) decision. As for your specific question, no, I wouldn't allow that behavior. Like my mama always said "there's a time and a place for ...."

[Angelique]

I agree that what the kids did, as described, is not a life and death situation. I do not agree with the principle that a teacher telling two l4 year-old kids to "knock it off" does not constitute a warning.

What is being overlooked is that there is a parent-student handbook, requiring parents and students to become cognizant of the rules. The rule is clear regarding this issue. There is no mention of a requirement to give a warning, so the kids were basically given a pass.

[headsonpikes]

"The rule is clear regarding this issue."

I would like to retract all the negative remarks I have made regarding the public schools.

I have said they were making students illiterate and innumerate. Now I say, 'So what!"

These oft-criticized schools are actually doing an excellent job of preparing their youthful charges for the real world of government jobs, political correctness, obedience to arbitrary authority, and all the other NEW CIVIC VIRTUES they will surely need in our Orwellian New Order.

Remember, kids! The Administration loves you; the Administration has ALWAYS loved you.

Another brick in the friggin' wall BUMP!

[Mr. Jeeves]

I had not read your post when I gave my reply, but have gone back to review this thread to see if anyone agreed with my point of view. Thank heavens!

I agree, too. Posters are responding to the inflammatory headline.

[sheik yerbouty]

PC= precludes cognition.