Thursday 02/21 Salt Lake Olympic Thread and ** SPOILERS**

DON'T LOOK if you DON'T WANT RESULTS | 02/21/2002

[alisasny]

The events for the day will be underway shortly.

GO TEAM USA and too all freedom loving nations...GOOD LUCK.

You can get live results online at this link

Live Results

Todays Events:

Mens giant slalom 12 noon est.

Cross Country Skiing Women's 4x5 relay 230 pm est.

Curling Ladies bronze medal game USA VS CAN 11 am est.

Curling Ladies Gold Medal Game SUI vs GBR 4 pm est.

Figure Skating Ladies Free Skate 8 pm est.

Ice Hockey Women's bronze medal game 2 pm est.

Ice Hockey Women's gold medal game 7 pm est.

Nordic Combined Sprint k 120 Competition round 130 pm est.

Ohno is a class act.

Gold medalist Apolo Anton Ohno of the USA celebrates on the awards stand at the medals ceremony for the Salt Lake 2002 Winter Olympic Games men's 1500m short track in Salt Lake City, February 20, 2002.

and now the sore Loser:

Kim Dong-sung of South Korea stands after throwing down his national flag in disgust when judges declared him disqualified for apparently impeding the path of American rival, Apolo Anton Ohno, in the men's 1500 m short track final at the Salt Lake 2002 Olympic Winter Games, February 20, 2002. Kim crossed the finish line first, with Ohno right behind, but Ohno was awarded the gold when Kim was disqualified.

Short track rules, regulations

Intentionally pushing, obstructing or colliding with another racer calls for the offender's disqualification. Improperly crossing the course -- cross-tracking -- is also prohibited.

Lead skater has the right of way and the passing skater must avoid body contact.

Skaters also are disqualified for changing lanes or altering their course at the finish. Competitors are required to skate in a straight line from the end of the corner to the finish line. Veering inside or outside to maintain the lead is grounds for disqualification.

It is clear to this observer that Ohno is the best passer in the sport. Had the Korean not skated into his line Ohno would have won the race anyway. Seems this Korean team engages in alot of dubious moves hoping they dont get spotted. Ohno was very smart to throw up his arms at that moment so the ref didnt miss the rule-breaker.

Thursday, Feb. 21 NBC TV Coverage.
MSNBC — (Women's hockey: bronze medal; Women's curling: gold and bronze medal), 1-7 p.m.
NBC — (Cross-country skiing: women's 4X5km relay), 4-5 p.m.
CNBC — (Women's hockey: gold medal), 7-10 p.m.
NBC — (Figure skating: ladies long program; Alpine skiing: men's giant slalom; Women's hockey: gold medal conclusion; Nordic combined: sprint K120 jump), 8-Midnight
NBC — (Late Night), 12:35-2:05 a.m.

---

[alisasny]

Good morning everyone. The last 2 days of Olympics have been great. Now that the games are winding down I hope Team USA can pull off a few more wins to get on the top of the Medal board. That would be nice.

[ken5050]

Have they posted the order of skating for the ladies?

and a few questions for the cognoscenti, if you please.

1. Is it impossible for HUghes, #4..to win the gold?..would all three ahead of her have to fall?

2. Within the top three, is their an advantage to skating first or last, or does it depend on how well the previous skaters did?....

[Lee'sGhost]

Just the thread I was looking for. OK, folks, here's the question. The media made a BIG deal out of the fact that an "African American" woman won gold in the bobsled -- the first African American to medal in the winter olympics.

My question is; so does that mean she is the first first "black" person to win in winter? In typical American media PC style, the assumption seemed to be that "African American" was synonymous with black. Of course, if it's just the first black "American" who won a medal and not the first black, who cares?! NBC would intentionally leave that fact out because it does not sound as spectacular. In their attempt to be PC, have they slighted black "non-Americans" who may have won? The fact that they specially did not make this clear tells me that she was not the first black. Can anyone confirm?

[Wyatt's Torch]

This story says she's the first "black" to win a gold.

[Catspaw]

She is the first black to win a gold at the winter Olympics. Debbie Thomas won a silver.

[Wyatt's Torch]

So does this one.

[Catspaw]

Any of the top four, including Hughes, can win a gold. And I think it's better to skate last. But--and I'm going out on a limb--I think it's going to be Kwan, the Russian (whose name escapes me at the moment) and Cohen, with Hughes in 4th.

[alisasny]

On Thursday, Kwan skates next-to-last, followed by Slutskaya.

This is all I could find so far. I will bump ya when I do get the list.

[Lee'sGhost]

Ahhh, so Reuters and Ticker got it right, but NBC did not bother to clarify. Thanks.

[ken5050]

I think the Russian, Slutskaya, was the best, bar far, but I've always been partgial to the athletic style of women's figure skating....loved Jo-Jo SDtarbuck and Denise Beilmann.....Hughes will =be awesome in a few years, IMHO..ultimately the best of the lot, by far..seems to me that if the judges can't "decide" (hm) between Kwan and the Russkie, they might give it to Hughes or Cohen, whichever skates the best..

[Wednesday's Child]

re: Ohno is a class act.
When they crossed the finish line, Ohno had a huge smile on his face! He knew he had been faulted. He is a class act for just quietly skating around waiting for the ref's decision. And, the other night when he fell and was injured, there was no "poor me" or any finger pointing. He just accepted it as a risk of the sport and continued on. Yep, a class act in my book!

[mikhailovich]

The stage is set for Kwan to win Gold. I'm tempted to say Cohen might even overtake Slutskaya for Silver. Barring some incredible, flawless performance by Hughes, I just don't think she has it to reach the top (yet).

It all comes down to this......if Kwan and Slutskaya skate basically the same they did in the short program (tonight), Kwan takes Gold. It will take a fall or several deductions for her to lose out to Slutskaya. The judges have already said she's more appealing on the ice. Gold is her's to lose.

[TontoKowalski]

Ken, Hughes can still win gold. Here's how:

The top three finishers in the short program have control over their own destiny in the long. If they win the long, then they win the gold.

The skater in 4th after the short needs some help to win. If Hughes, in 4th after short, wins the long, and Kwan, in first, finishes second in the long, then Kwan still wins the gold. Interestingly enough, one of Kwan's world championships was won with this scenario. She was in 4th after the short, won the long, and the leader after the short finished third in the long.

The bottom line to you question: If Hughes finishes first in the long, and Kwan finishes third, then Hughes wins the gold.

Technically, a skater in even lower standings after the short can win the gold, but the results of the long have to break his or her way, and I wouldn't look for that to happen tonight.

[glock rocks]

i have a friend who is a blond haired and blue eyed
caucasian who moved here from union of south africa
and has become an American citizen.

so, she's an african-american, right?

[glock rocks]

To find all articles indexed using "Olympics List"
	click here >>>	SL 2002 Olympics	<<< click here
SL 2002 home page...(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

[glock rocks]

	G	S	B	TOT
	9	15	7	31
	9	9	8	26
	10	6	2	18
	1	4	9	14
	5	5	3	13

[writmeister]

Actually, Debi Thomas won the bronze. Liz Manley of Canada won the silver after she out-skated both Thomas and Katerina Witt in the free skate.

[glock rocks]

NBC

TV schedule subject to change

4 - 5 PM ET / 3 - 4 PM PT

Cross-Country Skiing: Women’s 4x5km relay
Is there team in the world that can beat defending Olympic champion Russia? Probably not. With 1998 Olympic medal winners Larissa Lazutina, Olga Danilova and Yulia Tchepalova ready to man three legs of the relay, the Russians look very imposing. At the 2001 World Championships, the Russian team won the relay by more than a minute. Finland, Norway, Italy and Germany should battle it out for the remaining Olympic hardware.

8 - 9:15 PM ET / 7:30 - 8:45 PM PT

Alpine Skiing: Men’s giant slalom
Today’s men’s giant slalom at Park City figured to be a showdown between longtime rivals Hermann Maier of Austria and Swiss superstar Michael Von Gruenigen. But with Maier out of the Games, Von Gruenigen is a clear favorite. Maier might be gone, but the deep Austrians can turn to Benjamin Raich or a slew of others to challenge for a medal. And don’t count out American Erik Schlopy, who finished third in the 2000-2001 World Cup GS standings.

9:15 - 9:30 PM ET / 8:45 - 9 PM PT

Nordic Combined: Sprint, K120 competition
The nordic combined sprint is making its Olympic debut today. On the first day of competition, each athlete takes one jump from the large hill, which measures 120 meters (about 394 feet). On the second day, competitors take part in a 7.5-kilometer cross-country race. German Ronny Ackermann took the sprint bronze at the 2001 worlds and is coming off an impressive World Cup campaign. Finland’s Samppa Lajunen was the silver medalist at worlds and has the savvy and sprinting ability to threaten for the gold. Others with medal chances are Austria’s Felix Gottwald and Japan’s Kenji Ogiwara.

9:30 PM - 12 AM ET / 9 - 11:30 PM PT

Figure Skating: Ladies’ long program
The ladies will light up the final night of the competition. Stars such as Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes of the United States and Irina Slutskaya of Russia will use every inch of the ice in trying to present well-balanced long programs of combined athleticism, including risky triple-jump combinations, and artistic grace. Officially called the free skate, the long program counts for two-thirds of the final score and is always among the most popular events of the Olympic Winter Games.

12:35 - 2:05 AM ET / 12:05 - 1:35 AM PT

Late Night: February 21 / Day 14
Jay Leno
Medal Ceremonies
Highlights of the day
Concert Series: Alanis Morissette


MSNBC

TV schedule subject to change

1 - 2 PM ET / 10 - 11 AM PT

Curling: Women’s bronze medal game, United States vs. Canada
The United States, led by skip Kari Erickson, takes on Canada today for a shot at the Olympic medal stand. In semifinal action, the U.S. lost to Switzerland 9-4, while Canada fell to Great Britain 6-5. The two teams met earlier in the round-robin tournament, with Canada winning 6-4. If the U.S. wins, it will be the country’s first Olympic medal in curling.

2 - 4:30 PM ET / 11 AM - 1:30 PM PT

Ice Hockey: Women’s bronze medal game, Finland vs. Sweden
Finalnd takes on Sweden in the battle for the bronze medal today. Finland lost 7-3 to Canada in the semifinals, while Sweden was shutout by the U.S., 4-0. Finland defeated Sweden 6-0 in Nagano, the last time the two teams met in Olympic play. Finland is the defending Olympic bronze medalist.

4:30 - 7 PM ET / 1:30 - 4 PM PT

Curling: Women’s gold medal game, Switzerland vs. Great Britain
Switzerland takes on Great Britain in today’s gold medal game. When the two teams met in the round-robin tournament, Great Britain won 6-4. If Great Britain wins the gold medal, it will be their first gold at the Winter Games since Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean won the ice dancing gold at the 1984 Sarajevo Games.


CNBC

TV schedule subject to change

7 - 10 PM ET / 4 - 7 PM PT

Ice Hockey: Women’s gold medal game, United States vs. Canada
A tight, hard-fought game can be expected today at the E Center as the United States and Canada battle for the gold medal. The two teams have faced off 30 times in major competitions, including the 1998 Olympic gold medal game, where the Americans earned a 3-1 win. Canada will look to reproduce its success of three straight victories over the United States in title games at the World Championships since the Nagano Games. But the American women have owned the ice in their two Olympic tournaments, coming into today’s game unbeaten in 10 games and having outscored their opponents 67-9.

[ken5050]

Many thanks for the info.....BTW, have you given up on your efforts to win the hand of the fair Alicia....or did your wife offer to drive you to the airport?......(G) seriously, does AC have a webpage yet.....I agree with you that she's a cutie....ya wanna start a Fan Club.....DOFWAAAC...Dirty Old Freepers Who Absolutely Adore Alicia Camplin

[Lee'sGhost]

Well, that would be the question, wouldn't it? This stuff can get very confusing. I just want to keep track so I can be sure NOT to be PC.

[glock rocks]

good morning alisasny.

crisp and clear in utah this morning, light breeze, temp 28.
it's going to be a gorgeous day along the wasatch. salt lake forecast...

	Today Sunny with highs in the mid to upper 40s.
	Tonight Partly cloudy with lows in the mid to upper 20s.
	Friday Mostly sunny with highs in the upper 50s.
	Friday Night Increasing clouds with a 40 percent chance of rain late. Lows in the mid to upper 30s.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

U.S. speedskater Ohno wins first gold after Korean disqualified in another bizarre finish -AP Breaking News
BETH HARRIS, AP Sports Writer
(02-21) 06:40 PST SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Nothing seems to come easy for Apolo Anton Ohno, the speedskating sensation who could win four medals by the time the Olympics are done. But it is working out just fine for the teen-ager f...SNIP

[sparkomatic]

so, she's an african-american, right?

Point well made. I agree whole-heartedly.

First it was the "N" word, then negro, then colored, then black, and currently African-American. What will be the next PC term to come down the pike?

[glock rocks]

look at ohno's left foot... it's amazing he stayed upright.

Apolo Anton Ohno (2nd) of the United States raises his arms after being blocked by South Korea's Kim Dong-sung (front) in the final lap of the men's 1500 m short track final at the Salt Lake 2002 Olympic Winter Games, February 20, 2002. Kim crossed the finish line first, with Ohno right behind, but Ohno was awarded the gold when Kim was disqualified for apparently impeding Ohno's path. REUTERS/David Gray

[Oldeconomybuyer]

I'm no expert, but Sasha Cohen (left) is the best skater in the field...she skates effortlessly. Sasha Cohen of the United States practices the women's figure skating short program at the Salt Lake Ice Center Sports Complex in Salt Lake City Monday, Feb. 18, 2002 during the Winter Olympics.(AP Photo/Roberto Borea) - Feb 18 3:02 PM ET

[Oldeconomybuyer]

I think Bob Costas hit the nail on the head when he compared Ohno's deek to that of a basketball player trying to draw a charging foul.

[sparkomatic]

I don't think that's his left foot. I think that's the right foot in the midst of a cross-over.

[YaYa123]

This is it! My big Olympic day. And if NBC screws it up by not showing at least the top 10 skaters...shame on them!!! Nothing else would be going on live...right?

My prediction stands... Kwan, Cohen, Hughes, but I know I'm on thin ice predicting Hughes to medal.

The little Russian will be strong, she's a fantastic skater, she's paid her dues, and she has an added advantage of skating last. But maybe more important, the international judges have a well-deserved respect for the tradition of Russian women ice skaters. It might be hard to cut Russia off without a medal, even if she falls. The Russian has paid her dues, Hughes is the youngest American, they might figure she can medal in later Olympics.

Cohen is adorable, isn't she? And so cocky! I don't expect her to get nervous, but Hughes might.

hey....as I was typing, I watched CNN have on a FORTUNE magazine reporter to talk about the Washington Post article yesterday, detailing how Enron had courted Rubin while he was still in the Clinton administration.

I couldn't believe my ears...ta dah....CNN was doing a report that might connect the corrupt Enron dots to the Clinton administration! False alarm!! The CNN anchor talked over the reporter, so anxious was he to poo-poo any idea that Rubin had done something wrong by making a phone call last fall on Enron's behalf. "He was a private citizen"..."no proof he did anything wrong"...yada yada.

[TontoKowalski]

Well, I'm still hoping, but not expending too much effort.

I'm just wishing really really hard. The surest way to success in any endeavor...

[glock rocks]

look at the angle of the skate directly behind the korean's left foot.
either way, both ohno's skates seem headed more towards the wall than forward.

[alisasny]

Bode Miller is skiing first today in the first run of the mens giant slalom. Expect a huge performance from him. He will ski to win and if he falls it wouldnt be the first time. He has the all or nothing attitude and knows if he ski's conservatively he will loss. He is our only hope for a GOLD in alpine skiing.

GO BODEEEEEEE!!!!!!

There are 78 skiiers starting today. I wonder how many will finish. Only 38 ladies who competed yesterday out of 70 skiiers finished the 2nd run slalom course yesterday.

[ken5050]

Yup..he learned it from Allen Iverson..

[CedarDave]

Is this the same Korean skater that caused the Daytona-style wreck in the other race (500m?)?

[glock rocks]

will NBC have exclusive TV rights when the aliens show up at the olympics today?

[glock rocks]

no, the other korean was Ahn Hyun-soo. (really.)

[Catspaw]

Oh, you're right. I knew she had medalled. I really shouldn't post before I've had my morning ration of coffee.

[alisasny]

South Korea's Ahn Hyun-soo, slid on the ice, taking down Canada's Mathieu Turcotte and Apolo Anton Ohno in the 1000 meter other nght. Last night in the 1500 it was South Korea's Kim Dong-Sung who was disqualified. Hyan-soo was not in last nights final race.

[sparkomatic]

Well, yeah the left skate is pointed towards the outside wall. But, when they are going straight, the skates point outwards. Have you ever tried to push off with an ice skate while it is 100% parallel to the direction of travel?

On top of all that, I think Ohno knows what he's doing.

[Catspaw]

I thought Cohen was the best technical skater, but needed a bit more polish on the artistry (but not a lot)--but Kwan has the reputation and unless she really messes up, she's going to take the gold. Of course, it could be a coin flip between Cohen and Hughes. All I know is I have the popcorn ready.

And I cannot wait for the women's hockey game tonight (I think it starts at 6 Eastern). Cammi Granato's brother, Don, was coach of the Green Bay Gamblers (USHL), so there's a local angle for me.

I tell ya--I'm going to look forward to the closing ceremonies. Why? Because I'm used to going to bed a lot earlier :-))

[alisasny]

On a side note, the final burn victim from 911 has been released from the hospital today. Donovan Cowan is his name. NEVER FORGET!!!! He is all broken up about his good fortune and appears that he will have a very long emotional recovery ahead of him. He is very upset that so many of his coworkers died. Mr. Cowen GET WELL SOON.

[Wyatt's Torch]

That short track speed skating stuff is great to watch. Kind os a comnbination of roller derby and NASCAR all on ice. Ohno said in the interview after the race that he knew the Korean would be DQ'd. FWIW, the NBC announcers, at first, said that they didn't think it was much of an infraction and it didn't warrant a DQ. However, upon seeing the overhead replay, they could clearly see that the Korean intentionally came over to his left to block Ohno. Ohno also did his best Hollywood flop move to sell it. All in all, great fun to watch.

[Corporate Law]

The South Koreans were the ones who paid off the judges in 1988 to rob Roy Jones Jr. of gold in boxing. Who cares what they think now.

[sparkomatic]

Yep. I never really noticed the short track stuff before this year. Just last night I said to my wife, "I really like watching this stuff."
It was also my opinion after seeing that overhead shot that the infraction was fairly blatant.

BTW, I'm a NASCAR fan as well. What'd you think of Sterling Marlin's little trick? Getting out of the car on the red flag. I thought that was a hoot.

[latina4dubya]

i believe Debbie Thomas did not even win the silver in 1988... she ended up with the bronze... she happened to skate last...

[staytrue]

1. Is it impossible for HUghes, #4..to win the gold?..would all three ahead of her have to fall?

For all practical purposes, Hughes can not win gold. Kwan must finish 3rd or lower and Hughes must finish 1st in the free skate. This is very unlikely. However, silver and bronze are within reach.

[Charlotte Corday]

We thought Sterling had the right idea. Go to the back of the line for "working on the car" versus pitting under green to have the crew look at it - it's a no brainer.

[sparkomatic]

Well if you look at it that way, yeah. I don't think the fender could have gotten into it that much. The contact with Jeffy was so minimal. Another approach he could have taken is to simply ask another driver to look at it. It's kind of like asking the enemy for ammunition, but they do that once in a while.
No matter how it worked out, I was pleased with the race outcome.
I always enjoy hearing Wwwwwaaaarrrrrddd.

[Catspaw]

I love watching Ohno skate. He's intense--but he's having fun. I did so love that little bit of acting at the end of last night's race.

How many more races does Ohno have? I thought he had two chances to medal, but I could be wrong.

[PoisedWoman]

Hi ken: I too like Irina Slutskaya very much and have since first I saw her bounce onto the ice years ago...something so appealing about her looks, her apple-cheeks, and yes, her great jumping ability. But Kwan is the epitome of feminine grace on the ice...she gets the jumps done tidily and wows the audience with her ability to seemingly become the music. A great artist. So what are the olympics about?

Without major glitches, it will be Kwan, Slutskaya, Cohen, with Hughes remaining at #4. But the thrill of the sport is the possibility for glitches...so we watch and wait. I'm clinging to the left edge of the continent, so will turn off all media until my tape delayed version comes on three hours after the shouting.

Actually, I'm thrilled with the "diversity" of our medalists. Jennifer Rodriguez, the Miami Cuban speedskater girl, Parras, the Miami Mexican record-setting speedskater, and Ms. Flowers, our black Alabama girl who touchingly sang every word of the Star Spangled Banner at the medals ceremony whilst her white left-coast partner didn't seem to know a word. And of course, Danny Kwan, Michelle's dad, came here from Hong Kong or Taiwan. These kids really love being Americans and living the American Dream.

[eastsider]

Kim Dong-sung of South Korea stands after throwing down his national flag in disgust when judges declared him disqualified ...

The sportsmanship of the athletes throughout the games has been extraordinary. I include Apollo's earlier second-place finish when the skaters were all taken down, which he dismissed as "an occupational hazard." Kim Dong-sung's reaction, OTOH, was shameful. Personally, I'd consider barring him from any competition for life for throwing his national flag to the ice. (Just had to get that off my chest.)