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Kenosha Dig Points to Europe as Origin of First Americans
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel ^ | 3-4-02 | John Fauber

Posted on 03/04/2002 12:05:29 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic

A contentious theory that the first Americans came here from Europe - not Asia - is challenging a century-old consensus among archaeologists, and a dig in Kenosha County is part of the evidence.

The two leading proponents of the Europe theory admit that many scientists reject their contention, instead holding fast to the long-established belief that the first Americans arrived from Siberia via a now-submerged land bridge across the Bering Sea to Alaska.

The first of the Europe-to-North America treks probably took place at the height of the last Ice Age more than 18,000 years ago, said Dennis Stanford, curator of archaeology at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History, and Milwaukee native Bruce Bradley, an independent archaeological consultant and research associate of the Carnegie Museum.

Stanford and Bradley contend that if the original migration came from Europe, it would be logical to find more older sites in the eastern United States, as has been the case in recent years.

The Kenosha County digs show that woolly mammoths were butchered by humans here more than 13,000 years ago - at least 2,000 years older than what was once thought to be the oldest site in the U.S.

Stanford and Bradley also point to recent DNA analysis involving a particular genetic marker known as haplogroup X. The marker is found in a minority of American Indians, including some in the Great Lakes region, and Europeans, but is not found in Asians, suggesting an ancestral link between Europe and North America.

The two plan to publish a book laying out their findings in about a year, they said. They believe evidence in the book will win converts to their theory.

"There are several competing theories," said Milwaukee archaeologist David Overstreet. "All I know is people were here (in southeastern Wisconsin) several thousands of years earlier than previously thought."

Overstreet, director of the Marquette University-affiliated Center for Archaeological Research, has analyzed several southeastern Wisconsin sites where piles of bones of mammoths that had been butchered by people date back as far as 13,500 years ago.

The Kenosha County sites are among several eastern U.S. Ice Age sites that have fueled the growing controversy over whether North America's first people came from the Iberian Peninsula of Europe or from Asia.

"Whatever their source, Paleoindians appear to have reached the mid-continent by 13,500 (years ago) and successfully exploited the Pleistocene biomass (animals and plants) there for at least a millennium," Overstreet writes in a paper soon to be published in the international journal Geoarchaeology.

It was a time when the inhabitants of the Northern Hemisphere lived in an icy environment of vast glaciers, boreal forests, mastodons, saber-toothed tigers and 1,000-pound cave bears.

In the more-accepted Asia theory, people migrated across a land bridge over the Bering Sea and down an ice-free corridor to the American Southwest, where they established a culture known as Clovis.

However, while artifacts unearthed near Clovis, N.M., date to more than 11,000 years ago, several sites in the eastern U.S., including the Kenosha County sites, date to between 13,000 and 19,000 years, long before Clovis.

"In the last half-dozen years, all this stuff is popping up in the eastern U.S.," Overstreet said. "There is no question that somebody was in this area (southeastern Wisconsin) mucking around with mammoths 12,000 to 13,000 years ago. The question is, where did they come from?"

Prehistoric travelers

In separate interviews, Stanford and Bradley offered some of the strongest arguments:

With much of the world's water having been evaporated and converted to ice, sea levels during the last Ice Age were as much as 400 feet below today's levels.

An expanded coastal region probably extended from the Iberian Peninsula in southwestern France and northern Spain to the southern tip of Ireland. In addition, the Grand Banks, a series of submerged plateaus extending several hundred miles off the coast of Newfoundland, probably were above water.

The geological conditions meant the prehistoric travelers would have needed to pull off only a 1,500-mile Atlantic Ocean crossing along sheltered ice sheets teeming with easily hunted marine mammals and fish, Bradley and Stanford said.

Stanford noted that 50,000 years ago or more, humans had become skilled enough at open sea travel that they were able to arrive on the continent of Australia. They most likely used small, animal-skin boats, taking advantage of favorable sea currents.

"There would have been huge reserves of food," Bradley said.

The food, which probably included fish, seals, walruses and the now-extinct great auk, actually may have been the motivation for their wanderlust.

Overstreet added that the European glacier may have been cutting off hunting areas, forcing those inhabitants to find new food sources.

"They certainly were on the move," he said. "These people were capable of making that trip if they needed to."

'Completely crazy'

While Overstreet said he still has not completely accepted the new theory, others flatly reject it.

"It is a highly improbable theory," said James Stoltman, a professor emeritus of North American archaeology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Stoltman said he did not think Stanford and Bradley presented credible evidence to support their hypothesis.

Stanford and Bradley also point to the similarity between the bifaced stone spear points found in the U.S. and the Solutrean area off the north coast of Spain and dating to between 16,500 and 22,000 years ago.

However, while Solutrean and Clovis points are both bifaced, there are major differences, said Thomas Pleger, who teaches Great Lakes archaeology at UW-Fox Valley.

Pleger said there just is no credible evidence to support a theory of an Ice Age migration from Europe.

"It is a completely crazy and unsupported hypothesis," said Lawrence Guy Straus, a professor in the anthropology department at the University of New Mexico and an expert on the Upper Paleolithic period in Western Europe. He also serves as editor of the Journal of Anthropological Research.

Straus said there are major differences between bone and stone technology used by Solutrean people and the Clovis culture of North America.

In addition, he said most of the British Isles, the supposed jumping-off point for the migration, was covered with ice between 13,000 and 27,000 years ago.

There also is no evidence that the Solutrean people had acquired skills, such as navigation, deep-sea fishing and marine mammal hunting, that would have been needed to pull off such a migration, he said.

Ancestry in question

Straus also said the Stanford/Bradley theory has angered some American Indian groups whose ancestry has been tied to Asia, not Europe.

"It is basically saying they weren't here first," Straus said.

However, at the same time traditional religious beliefs of many American Indians fail to acknowledge any migration from another part of the world, said John Norder, an assistant professor of anthropology who specializes in American Indian matters.

Norder, who also is a member of the Dakota Sioux, said a common religious belief among many American Indians is that their ancestors' land was either created for them or that they came to it from an underworld.

Recently, some American Indians have incorporated the idea of their ancestors crossing a Bering Sea land bridge, he said.

In the meantime, the theory of Stone Age Europeans discovering America dominates the debate.

"People discuss it as being crazy and wish it would go away," said Straus. "I'm amazed at the amount of attention."


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acrossatlanticice; archaeology; brucebradley; crevolist; dennisstanford; europe; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; goodyear; history; origins; precolumbian; solutreans; toolmaking; tools; tooltime; topper
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1 posted on 03/04/2002 12:05:29 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: blam
FYI
2 posted on 03/04/2002 12:05:49 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: crevo_list, PatrickHenry, Junior, jennyp, RadioAstronomer, VadeRetro
More origins research.

Don't forget to visit the Crevo List for all the latest!

4 posted on 03/04/2002 12:08:01 PM PST by cracker
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Diffusionist BUMP!

Down with isolationism!!!

5 posted on 03/04/2002 12:09:23 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Ha ha, I'm Native American now! Gimme my casino!
6 posted on 03/04/2002 12:10:13 PM PST by eno_
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To: afraidfortherepublic
European-American bump
7 posted on 03/04/2002 12:12:53 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: afraidfortherepublic
"It is a completely crazy and unsupported hypothesis,"

Sounds like a candidate for mainstream acceptance in about 50 years. Like Wegener's continental drift.

8 posted on 03/04/2002 12:13:53 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: OneidaM, Dog, b4its2late, DJ88, kayak
"All I know is people were here (in southeastern Wisconsin) several thousands of years earlier than previously thought."

And they were all cheeseheads. Every one.:)

9 posted on 03/04/2002 12:14:10 PM PST by MozartLover
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To: afraidfortherepublic
You are quite right in saying that the first North Americans to leave descendants to the present day, entered from the East/or Middle Atlantic part of the USA, and did so just a little under 20,000 years ago.

Only a few years ago, no one dared to excavate anywhere that might produce evidence of this, for the tyranny of Hrdlicka lived on after him for a couple generations.

What is troublesome is just what race or ethnic group these people can be assigned to. Back in the sixties, I changed my history textbook from "Siberia" to "Iberia" as source of first Amerindians, and it is gratifying to know I was right!

Seriously, though, while we can say these people came from the East and were of Solutrean (European) culture, their physical type does seem to lean toward the Asiatic or (Amerindians already in South America?)...making one wonder if a handful of culture-bearers arrived from Europe, but picked up slaves in South America who were the bulk of the (few dozens-to-hundreds) arrivals of some 19500 years ago (from whom the whole N Amer aborig pop descended)...and thus racially the orig settlement was S American Indians, but culturally distinct under its seagoing European elite, which may have lasted only a short time before melting in...

10 posted on 03/04/2002 12:18:48 PM PST by crystalk
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To: afraidfortherepublic
The Kenosha County digs show that woolly mammoths were butchered by humans here more than 13,000 years ago - at least 2,000 years older than what was once thought to be the oldest site in the U.S.

Did they find huge stores of kringle? That'd make the story much more authentic (it's an Wisconsin insider joke).

11 posted on 03/04/2002 12:21:42 PM PST by Catspaw
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To: afraidfortherepublic
TOOL TIME ON CACTUS HILL

In search of the earliest Americans
Tim Beardsly

SEARCHING FOR CLUES to human occupation of Cactus Hill are archaeologist Michael F. Johnson (above) and his helpers. Artifacts found there may be 14,000 years old.

On a scorching Saturday in late August in southern Virginia, at the end of a dirt track leading through fields of corn and soybeans, archaeologist Michael F. Johnson sits in the shade of oak and hickory trees eating his packed lunch. Nearby, bright-blue tarpaulins protect excavations that have brought Johnson here most weekends for the past several years.

The object of Johnson's passion is a dune of blown sand known as Cactus Hill. Between bites, Johnson is debating with visiting archaeologist Stuart J. Fiedel what the place was like 14,000 years ago. It must have been ideal for a summer camp, Johnson thinks. Facing north, it would have been cooled by winds coming off glaciers hundreds of miles distant. He offers me an inverted plastic bucket to sit on. The dune would have been dry, he continues, a welcome relief from the surrounding insect-infested bogs. The Nottoway River was at the time only a stone's throw away. There were lots of animals: mastodon, elk, bison, deer, perhaps moose and caribou.

And there were people, maintains Johnson (who is employed by the Fairfax County Park Authority), hunter-gatherers whose descendants may have given rise to Native American tribes. Johnson has found at Cactus Hill quartzite blades, blade fragments and both halves of a broken "point" suitable for a spear, fully nine inches below the well-defined Clovis horizon at the site. That level, recognized all over the country by its characteristic and abundant stone-tool technology, was created 13,000 years ago, according to Fiedel, who conducts surveys for John Milner Associates. (Several studies in the past few years indicate that the conventional date of 11,000 years, based on radiocarbon dating, is a significant underestimate.) Only in recent years has a long investigation at Monte Verde in Chile finally convinced most archaeologists that humans were in the Americas well before Clovis times, so a new potential pre-Clovis site is an important rarity.

In a separate, adjacent dig at Cactus Hill, Joseph M. McAvoy and Lynn D. McAvoy of the Nottoway River Survey have found numerous blade-type tools, some associated with charcoal fragments that tested at 15,000 and 16,000 years old by radiocarbon dating or 18,000 to 19,000 years old by Fiedel's recalibration. Johnson is excited that McAvoy's larger excavation and his own have found "fully comparable" artifacts from below the Clovis horizon. Cactus Hill is "one of the best candidate pre-Clovis sites to come down in a long time," says C. Vance Haynes, Jr., of the University of Arizona, a leading scholar of Paleo-Indian cultures.

On this day Fiedel is listening hard to Johnson's arguments in favor of pre-Clovis occupation, but he is frowning. Johnson says 14,000 years is a "conservative" estimate of the age of his oldest finds. Fiedel agrees that Johnson's fragments are clearly human artifacts, but he is not persuaded by his dates. "You can't be sure stuff hasn't moved around," he says later. Burrowing wasps and rodents, notoriously, can move objects through sand. McAvoy's published evidence of a pre-Clovis technology at Cactus Hill is "fairly convincing," Fiedel says, but the radiocarbon dates seem almost too old, suggesting evidence of fire 5,000 years before the Clovis culture exploded--a time when few other signs of humans have been documented. Haynes, too, notes that there could be unrecognized errors in the dating of the Cactus Hill layers.

Johnson is undeterred. The pieces of his prized ancient broken point came from the same level but were found several feet apart: because animals would hardly move the separated fragments vertically the same distance, they are probably in their original bed, he argues. Moreover, the stone and the style of workmanship differs from that of Clovis material. "I'm really confident it doesn't fit into Clovis," he says. Johnson's opinion on tool styles counts for something; he has taught himself how to make "Clovis" points that can fool most people.

Fiedel and the other visitors at Cactus Hill this day continue to spin scenarios about the earliest Americans as they take up tools and patiently skim successive half-inch layers of sand from a more recent horizon. Perhaps the inhabitants were members of a hypothetical proto-Clovis culture, Fiedel muses. He observes that some blades like Johnson's and the McAvoys' have recently come to light in South Carolina. But when did the makers arrive from Eurasia? The land bridge that connected it to Alaska was often covered by glaciers. The Cactus Hill archaeologists visiting Johnson's dig, all donating their time, ponder the conundrums as they patiently mark every visible fragment of stone and photograph each exposed level, then sift through the removed material for anything they might have missed the first time. The heat is daunting. As the afternoon wears on, the debate between Johnson and Fiedel moves first one way, then the other, like a tug-of-war.

The debate might never be resolved. The site's owner, Union Camp Corporation, has halted sand mining at Cactus Hill, provided some security and allowed the archaeologists complete access, but time presses. Johnson grimaces as he lifts a tarp to show a ruined trench where the Clovis horizon has been crudely dug out by looters in search of stone points, which can sell for thousands of dollars each. In the process, the pillagers have destroyed layers above and below Clovis. Cactus Hill may be among the earliest inhabited sites in the U.S. But if point rustlers continue to run ahead of the volunteers, science may forever be unable to prove it.

(I've read subsequent reports that state that the tools found there are similar to the technology present at the time on the Iberian peninsula. Early Basque?)

12 posted on 03/04/2002 12:24:42 PM PST by blam
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To: RightWhale
Sounds like a candidate for mainstream acceptance in about 50 years. Like Wegener's continental drift.

Just goes to show that all science is bunk. After all, if these scientist were so smart, how come thier theories keep changing? Next year they'll say we all came from South America!!! Juts wait a year, you'll see. Meanwhile I'll stick to my tribe's creation myth. At least it never changes, so it must be true! </creationist mode>

Oh wait, yes it does:

Norder, who also is a member of the Dakota Sioux, said a common religious belief among many American Indians is that their ancestors' land was either created for them or that they came to it from an underworld.

Recently, some American Indians have incorporated the idea of their ancestors crossing a Bering Sea land bridge, he said.


13 posted on 03/04/2002 12:27:12 PM PST by jennyp
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To: eno_
Ha ha, I'm Native American now! Gimme my casino!

----------

LOL...yeah, chips with everything!

14 posted on 03/04/2002 12:27:23 PM PST by yankeedame
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Volume 52 Number 4 July/August 1999

THE TOPPER SITE: PRE-CLOVIS SURPRISE

xcavations have revealed a deep stratum with apparently pre-Clovis artifacts at the Topper site on the Savannah River near Allendale, South Carolina. Albert Goodyear, of the University of South Carolina's Institute for Archaeology and Anthropology, was surveying chert sources in 1981, when a local man (named Topper) led him to this site, which is on a hillside near the Savannah River (500 feet from its main branch). Testing in 1984 revealed side-notched points, dated elsewhere to 10,000 (radiocarbon) years before present, were found at 70 to 80 cm and fluted blanks (Clovis preforms) were found at 80 to 100 cm. Later excavations never went beyond the one meter mark. At the time, no site had been accepted as older than Clovis (10,800 to 11,200 radiocarbon years), and there was therefore no reason to expect deeper culture-bearing deposits existed.

In 1998, inspired by potential pre-Clovis sites like Monte Verde, Chile, and Cactus Hill, Virginia, Goodyear decided to dig deeper. After some 40 cm of essentially barren deposits, the excavators began finding small flakes and microtools. Goodyear recalls that he "kind of went into shock. I had no idea we'd find artifacts." This year's excavations have confirmed that discovery.

The lower level, now exposed over a total of 28 square meters, has yielded some 1,000 waste flakes and 15 microtools (mostly microblades). The excavators also found a pile of 20 chert pebbles plus four small quartz pebbles, possible hammerstones.

The same yellow chert was used in the upper and lower levels, but apparently in the upper levels the people had access to large pieces of chert extracted from the hillside and cobbles of it from the riverbed, while in the deeper level only small pebbles of it were used. Because artifacts of the types in the upper level are not found in the lower level and vice versa, Goodyear does not believe the flakes and tools were pushed into the lower level by tree roots or burrowing animals.

For now, dating of the artifacts depends on the stratigraphy and comparison with other sites. There is little organic material preserved in the sandy matrix making radiocarbon-dating difficult. Samples for carbon-dating and OSL (optically stimulated luminescence) dating are now being analyzed.

Goodyear thinks the site was used for the exploitation of chert pebbles sometime between 12,000 and 20,000 years ago. No evidence of bifaces and unifaces typical of later Clovis have been found in the lower level, and Goodyear looks to Siberian microblade industries for parallels. Artifacts from possible pre-Clovis sites, including Topper, Cactus Hill, and Meadowcroft (in Pennsylvania), will be shown to Asian scholars at the Smithsonian this August. Plans call for excavations at Topper, which stopped at the end of May, to resume next spring.--MARK ROSE

15 posted on 03/04/2002 12:28:54 PM PST by blam
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To: afraidfortherepublic
The Red Record (Walam Olum)
16 posted on 03/04/2002 12:31:49 PM PST by blam
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To: Catspaw
Kringle would be found just north of Kenosha in Racine County. I was born in Kenosha, but not that long ago so I don't remember there being any mammoths although the catechism nuns were pretty mean.

D

17 posted on 03/04/2002 12:32:20 PM PST by DC Packfan
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To: MozartLover
"All I know is people were here (in southeastern Wisconsin) several thousands of years earlier than previously thought."

In the winter they visit Florida and they cannot drive worth a ?????

18 posted on 03/04/2002 12:32:23 PM PST by scouse
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To: WIMom
Uh, maybe you should think twice before using that particular image.
19 posted on 03/04/2002 12:34:37 PM PST by The Old Hoosier
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To: DC Packfan
Kringle would be found just north of Kenosha in Racine County. I was born in Kenosha, but not that long ago so I don't remember there being any mammoths although the catechism nuns were pretty mean.

There may not have been any county lines in the time of the woolly mammoth :-)) And--because I'm hungry for a kringle (pecan, please), it may be time for a road trip to Racine.

And--wince--you have just made my knuckles ache thinking about the Catholic school nuns.

20 posted on 03/04/2002 12:37:10 PM PST by Catspaw
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Calico: A 200,000-Year Old Site In The Americas?
21 posted on 03/04/2002 12:38:42 PM PST by blam
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Shades of Kennewick Man, the archeological find in Washington State of apparently "Caucasian" (for lack of a better term) remains that were promptly stolen, damaged or destroyed by Federal officials under the Clinton Administration. Finds like this could lead to debates over who really are the "native" Americans and whose "land" America really is, or just maybe and more sensibly, could put a stop to such useless debates.
22 posted on 03/04/2002 12:41:28 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: jennyp
Out of Africa? No good.

Modern man evolved on Santa Catalina 200,000 years ago and migrated west across the Bering Land Bridge, ending up eventually in Africa. < /hypothesis mode>

23 posted on 03/04/2002 12:47:42 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Who Was First?
24 posted on 03/04/2002 12:57:11 PM PST by blam
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To: RightWhale
(a relative of your Catalina folks?)

Arlington Springs Woman

25 posted on 03/04/2002 1:05:17 PM PST by blam
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To: Catspaw
Did they find huge stores of kringle?

Only the ordinary walnut kind. The apple and the cheese varieties had all been consumed! LOL

26 posted on 03/04/2002 1:05:30 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic;blam
Im not surprised. When I was a kid I found knapped arrowhead in Army Lake(?) that was of an advanced design and in a condition that Ive never seen the equal of. I wonder if theres anything else in that lake...
27 posted on 03/04/2002 1:06:40 PM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: Map Kernow

Kennewick Man

28 posted on 03/04/2002 1:07:41 PM PST by blam
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Look at that map!
Are they trying to say the Indians came from FRANCE?
Please, NO! Anywhere but France, home of the cheese-eating surrender monkeys!
29 posted on 03/04/2002 1:07:47 PM PST by Redbob
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To: blam
Tried the "Who Was First" site---thanks for the link. Funny how it talks about how "some" people have claimed the reconstruction of Kennewick Man had "Eurasian" [sic!] features, as though whoever wrote the copy on the site couldn't bring himself (or herself) to write "European"!
30 posted on 03/04/2002 1:14:48 PM PST by Map Kernow
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To: afraidfortherepublic
"It is a completely crazy and unsupported hypothesis," said Lawrence Guy Straus, a professor in the anthropology department at the University of New Mexico and an expert on the Upper Paleolithic period in Western Europe....

Straus also said the Stanford/Bradley theory has angered some American Indian groups whose ancestry has been tied to Asia, not Europe.

"It is basically saying they weren't here first," Straus said.

I have no idea whether this hypothesis is true or not, and the burden of proof is on those who claim it is.

But is Mr. Straus suggesting that the fact that some Indians don't like the theory has some bearing upon whether or not the theory is true?

31 posted on 03/04/2002 1:26:22 PM PST by counterrevolutionary
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To: blam
Don't we have a couple of the very first inhabitants of South Carolina serving in the US Senate today?
32 posted on 03/04/2002 1:26:41 PM PST by machman
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To: blam
Captain Picard?
33 posted on 03/04/2002 1:33:52 PM PST by Liberal Classic
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To: Redbob
More than likely the 'immigrant's would be from Scandinavia...The Vikings were tremendous explorers.

At least, that is what my best hunch would be.

34 posted on 03/04/2002 1:36:33 PM PST by Alkhin
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To: afraidfortherepublic
bump for later.
35 posted on 03/04/2002 1:38:41 PM PST by Jeremy_Bentham
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To: Map Kernow
"Tried the "Who Was First" site---thanks for the link. Funny how it talks about how "some" people have claimed the reconstruction of Kennewick Man had "Eurasian" [sic!] features, as though whoever wrote the copy on the site couldn't bring himself (or herself) to write "European"!"

"Euroasian" may be a correct defination. He is believed to have been closely related to the Ainu (presently living in Japan) who are believed to be descendents of the Jomon.(all of Asia) Kennewick Man had dental features like Europeans and unlike present day American Indians or most Orientals. Kennewick Man and those like him were in North America, at least, 3-4,000 thousand years before the present day American Indians showed up in the skeletal record. (REF: Ancient Encounters (Kennewick Man) by James C. Chatters)

36 posted on 03/04/2002 1:55:18 PM PST by blam
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To: Map Kernow
Ainu
37 posted on 03/04/2002 2:06:05 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

Hmmm Looks amazingly like:

Paging Captain Picard?

38 posted on 03/04/2002 2:10:17 PM PST by Mad Dawgg
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To: Map Kernow
Shades of Kennewick Man, the archeological find in Washington State of apparently "Caucasian" (for lack of a better term) remains that were promptly stolen, damaged or destroyed by Federal officials under the Clinton Administration. Finds like this could lead to debates over who really are the "native" Americans and whose "land" America really is, or just maybe and more sensibly, could put a stop to such useless debates.

Exactly! Finds like this show threaten the victim status of American Indians and all this liberal nonsense about how the European white man is bad because he stole all their land. Whether this is true or not is not even the question because the leftists of the victimization industry don;t even want to debate their new god's existence - science. Totally hypocritical!

39 posted on 03/04/2002 2:15:26 PM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: counterrevolutionary
But is Mr. Straus suggesting that the fact that some Indians don't like the theory has some bearing upon whether or not the theory is true?

I think he's saying that it would be non-PC for any agency to provide money to research any other theory.

40 posted on 03/04/2002 2:38:33 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: machman
Don't we have a couple of the very first inhabitants of South Carolina serving in the US Senate today?

Would those be Thurmondman and Hollingsman?

41 posted on 03/04/2002 2:40:53 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
As a former resident of Kenosha, I proudly endorse this theory. It is only a matter of time until they dig up a bowling ball, a Schlitz bottle and a cheesehead hat.
42 posted on 03/04/2002 3:12:37 PM PST by T'wit
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To: JeanS
Get digging in your back yard. There's history to be made!
43 posted on 03/04/2002 3:14:00 PM PST by T'wit
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To: crystalk
I think that the most sensible explanation is that there were many groups entering the Americas over time. The last, and greatest, pre-historic migration would have been the one from Asia that gave the Indians their distinctive appearence. But, the existence of the haplogroup X gene points to the Indians having European ancestors as well.

What's likely is that many groups came here, but in relatively small numbers. Europeans crossed by skirting the North Atlantic pack ice. Some Asians did the same along the Nothern Pacific pack ice as well. Africans crossed the Atlantic Narrows, which would have been narrower still during the Pleistocene. The European migrants were likely the source of the Clovis tool tradition. Yes, there are notable differences between Solutrean and Clovis, but no similar stone tool styles exist in Asia. Also, these original populations were likely small.

When the Asians entered later, they encountered people already living in the Americas. If all parties were hunter/gatherers, then the meeting was probably peaceful. (It's the agriculturalists that tend to get violent.) The rapid adoption of the Clovis style tools may indicate trade resulting from such friendly relations. (And there is evidence that the Clovis technology spread out of the Northeast rather than out of the Southwest.) They would have simply interbred with the existing populations. If the Asians were more numerous, then of course their descendents would have a more Asiatic appearence.

The multiple migration theory solves a few sticky problems. One of those is the question of how Paleo-indians got to the tip of South America in such short order. It's presumed that the "migration" was really the pre-historic version of urban sprawl. People slowly diffused into the Americas in search of new hunting grounds. Hunter/gatherer villages can only get so big before they start to overhunt an area. When this happens, the village splits and the new group has to find its own territory. This moves the line of advance several miles every few generations. But this doesn't explain how they could have diffused from Beringia to Monte Verde in 2,500 years. (Or, depending upon what dating one uses, how they could have gone backwards in time!) However, diffusion from the Atlantic Narrows to Monte Verde in 6,500 years is far more believable.

44 posted on 03/04/2002 4:01:13 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: Mad Dawgg
That one has nothing to do with this. Remember the episode where Data's head turns up in 19th Century San Francisco? Same thing. It's all explained in the next movie.
45 posted on 03/04/2002 4:05:27 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: afraidfortherepublic
"It is a highly improbable theory," said James Stoltman, a professor emeritus of North American archaeology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Stoltman said he did not think Stanford and Bradley presented credible evidence to support their hypothesis.

< credulous>Another (fill in the blank) plot, Stoltman is unable to calculate the odds, therefore it is most certain that Native Americans are really Spaniards in disguise.< /credulous>

46 posted on 03/04/2002 4:21:09 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Thurmondman maybe, but the other is definitely a Hollingspithecus!!!!!!
47 posted on 03/04/2002 4:44:25 PM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: KC_Conspirator
Totally hypocritical!

This posting agrees. EUROPEANS IN CANADA

Old notions could be turned on their heads as the debate over ancient migration rages on, both in academic and political circles. The main bone of contention worldwide has to do with the claims of aboriginal peoples, who regard themselves as the first and only indigenous people of their homelands. Any evidence that upsets the current orthodoxy they regard as a threat.

"[Early contact] is very contentious, but it's not nearly as speculative as some believe," says Prof. Kelley. "There are massive amounts of evidence. Some of it has been deliberately obscured, sometimes for political reasons." Despite this, the digging and the theorizing goes on.

Does the possibility that the Eriksson expedition may not have been the first to visit North America bother the people who organized the Viking Trail celebrations? Mr. Clarke remains unperturbed. "We've already had our party," he says. "Now they can go ahead and find whatever they want

48 posted on 03/04/2002 4:58:28 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Thurmondman and Hollingsman?

Those are the ones!!

49 posted on 03/04/2002 4:58:45 PM PST by machman
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To: Alas Babylon!
Maybe even a proto-Hollingspithecus.

Probably a dead-end in the evolutionary tree. It's lack of brain power dooms it to a sad, sad end.

50 posted on 03/04/2002 5:04:28 PM PST by machman
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