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FBI fired as victim unbuckled, lawyer says
Baltimore Sun ^ | March 5,2002 | Gail Gibson and Laura Barnhardt

Posted on 03/05/2002 3:08:42 AM PST by Donald Stone

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Dane
No law emforcement agency will ever be perfect, but that won't stop people pushing their own political points and do a clinton like blood dance over this unfortunate situation.

Most federal law enforcement agencies will suffer from corruption and incompetence, but that won't stop people from defending them for their own political points and do an eleanor clift like (boot?) licking to try to spin what is merely just the latest of a long and continuing history of major screw ups.

41 posted on 03/05/2002 4:08:48 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: Donald Stone
"A single bullet from an M-14 assault rifle..."

Well, which is it? this is the first I've read of an 'M-14'. All previous accounts have been of the use of an M-4. The M-14 is indeed an assault rifle that is a .30 caliber carbine with select fire. The M-4 is an automatic weapon firing a pistol caliber and therefore a submachine gun.

The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

42 posted on 03/05/2002 4:09:15 AM PST by dhuffman@awod.com
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To: aruanan
I am very impressed. You obviously did a lot of serious late Saturday night TV watching in the sixties and seventies. Don't forget that Milk Gives You a Big Lift and that You Always Need a Zip Code Morning, Noon and Night and Everything Will Be Allright. The investigation in this case will probably reveal that the Special Agent missed the Quantico class on How To Order People Out of Cars. The FBI is notorious among local cops for not being being able to handle dangerous on the scene confrontations. But this confrontation was entirely created by the Bureau. Heads should roll.
43 posted on 03/05/2002 4:11:56 AM PST by SpencerRoane
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To: Dane
Looks like you managed to get the phrase, " clinton like blood dance" into the post - again. Is this your phrase of choice for this particular story?

You're right law enforcement isn't perfect - no human is. However, when an unarmed civillian is shot in the face trying to comply with law enforcement orders, this is a problem. I agree that it was a mistake and mistakes happen, and I personally wouldn't try to put the FBI officer in jail. BUT, he sure wouldn't be working for the FBI anymore if I were in charge. Bye-bye trigger happy.

44 posted on 03/05/2002 4:12:04 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: Dane
So, let me get this straight: you think we should keep hot dogs like this guy in law enforcement?
45 posted on 03/05/2002 4:16:01 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: Cobra64
"Every time I get pulled over by a cop, I right signal, tap the brakes and pull off the road (parking lot) and concurrently roll down the driver side window. Once stopped, I keep both hands on the wheel... very visible. When the officer approaches and we go through usual verbal disourse... speeding; I explain that I am going to unbuckle seat belt to retrieve wallet, etc."

"These guys like the patience and respect we pay to them so that their comfort level is a least a little bit higher that I'm not going to pull out a .357 and whack 'em."

That's all well and good. I once knew an FBI agent who did the same thing whenever he was off-duty but armed. But in this case, the Agents were apparently too far away to engage in that kind of conversation with the occupants. The Agents told them to raise their hands and then to exit the car. Even without undoing the seatbelt, how are you going to exit the car with your hands raised? This is either a grossly incompetent agent, piss-poor training or both.

46 posted on 03/05/2002 4:18:29 AM PST by SpencerRoane
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To: dhuffman@awod.com
The M4 is a shortened up M16 A2, fires a 5.56 mm (.223) round, is gas operated, with selective rates of fire. It can use all the accessories an M16 A2 uses, like night vision scopes and even a 40mm grenade launcher.
I'm surprised Nervous-boy didn't just go ahead and frag the car.

Anyway, it's no pistol round. I used to hunt groundhogs and other varmints with a .223, it's pretty devastating. I'm surprised young Schultz is alive.
Regards,

47 posted on 03/05/2002 4:20:48 AM PST by GhostofWCooper
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To: SpencerRoane
Words such as "unfortunate" and "incompetent" are inappropriate to this situation. It may be that this was attempted murder:

The father of the young lady who was driving the car was on the program {Ron Smith's WBAL program as reported by Frepper jackbill) and he said that after the young man was shot in the face, he was handcuffed and laid face-down on the ground for about an hour - until the FBI found out that they had the wrong guy. Only then did they call for medical assistance.

She said that while her friend was laying on the ground the FBI agents were whooping it up and refused her begging that they call medical aid.

The shot might arguably be accidental -- I'd say it could have been manslaughter as it following a whole sequence of poor and endangering procedure. The follow-up lack of getting medical attention, combined with the "whopping it up" indicating mindset, imho, is criminal.
48 posted on 03/05/2002 4:21:09 AM PST by bvw
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Donald Stone
"Schultz was shot when he reached over to unbuckle his seat belt, "

I have been pulled over a number of times by local and state constabulary in my life and never would I reach down to unbuckle my seat belt without first telling the officer that is what I was going to do next. Call it a young man's mistake, but if this kid had only said loudly, "I'm going to unbuckle my seat belt, officer!", he might have avoided a bullet. Law enforcement officers are very interested in where your hands are during a traffic stop.

50 posted on 03/05/2002 4:24:24 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: bvw
That part about them refusing to call for medical aid caught my attention too. The girls Father would definitely be in a position to know her story.

Even if the guy had been a real bank robber, the FBI agents behaviour was criminal.

51 posted on 03/05/2002 4:25:10 AM PST by yarddog
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To: Dane
No law emforcement agency will ever be perfect, but that won't stop people pushing their own political points and do a clinton like blood dance over this unfortunate situation.

Ah yes, an "unfortunate situation". ROFL - who's acting Clintonesque here? That sounds like something I'd hear out of the mouth of Paul Begala. You know very well the difference between condemning the actions of THESE agents and condemning the entire FBI. People here on FR are understandably disgusted with how THIS INCIDENT was handled, but that won't stop you from trying to spin it as unwarranted criticism of all cops.

52 posted on 03/05/2002 4:25:42 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Glad to hear you are so much smarter than this kid.
53 posted on 03/05/2002 4:27:01 AM PST by yarddog
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
if this kid had only said loudly, "I'm going to unbuckle my seat belt, officer!", he might have avoided a bullet

You're right! It's the unarmed kid's fault! The highly trained and armed law enforcement officier should walk! < /sarcasm >

54 posted on 03/05/2002 4:28:10 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Call it a young man's mistake, but if this kid had only said loudly, "I'm going to unbuckle my seat belt, officer!", he might have avoided a bullet.

I think I'd first call it an agent's mistake.

55 posted on 03/05/2002 4:28:36 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Texas_Longhorn
FBI uses Mini-14? Not aware of it.
56 posted on 03/05/2002 4:29:45 AM PST by donozark
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To: realpatriot71
I did not say that it was the kid's fault. The agent in question should be identified, charged and jailed.
I merely offered a hindsight observation that might have prevented a tragedy.
57 posted on 03/05/2002 4:30:01 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Donald Stone
Agents pulled Harkum from the car and threw her to the ground after the shooting, but she was not injured in the incident, Asensio said.

Is this SOP to confuse the teenage girl?

This article leaves out the part where Schultz was handcuffed and placed face down on the ground (after he was shot in the face) for about an hour, while the gestapo refused to call for emergency medical care which Schultz's girlfriend pleaded for.

58 posted on 03/05/2002 4:30:51 AM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: bvw
after the young man was shot in the face, he was handcuffed and laid face-down on the ground for about an hour - until the FBI found out that they had the wrong guy. Only then did they call for medical assistance.

I am so tired of these f--kers getting away with this sh!t! How much longer will the nation sit back and allow these guys to cover each other's a$$es. The guy that shot the individual needs to fired, period, and the commanding officer needs to go too. Who lets anyone bleed for an hour? I can't believe I'm hearing this - no I can - it's the FBI. I'm tired of the "big-wigs" getting away with whatever they want.

59 posted on 03/05/2002 4:33:00 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: yarddog
Lighten up dog. All I offered was an observation that might have avoided bloodshed.
I didn't say I was smarter than him, but I've never been shot. The kid's 20 years old. I wouldn't expect him to be all that cool headed with a weapon trained on him.
60 posted on 03/05/2002 4:33:41 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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