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The Paleolithic Diet and Its Modern Implications
Chet Day ^ | Unknown | An Interview with Loren Cordain

Posted on 03/07/2002 6:16:05 PM PST by Pharmboy

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To: Pharmboy
Thank you for supporting FR.
51 posted on 03/08/2002 6:10:50 AM PST by grammymoon
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To: Aurelius
The reason that humans gave up the care-free and easy life of the hunter-gather for the boredom and drudgery of agriculture is that they had discovered brewing and wanted a stesdy source of grains for making beer.

I first heard this explanation for the transition to farming when I was in college. It made a lot of sense to me then, and I have yet to see anything to make me change my mind. All the other explanations lack this simple appeal to observable human nature.

I never heard those Genesis verses cast in that light however. Interesting perspective.

52 posted on 03/08/2002 6:14:11 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: rightofrush
On your usage point: "breast" can mean either "the fore or ventral part of the body between the neck and the abdomen" (as you used it) or "either of the pair of mammary glands..." In a current dictionary (Webster's Collegiate, Tenth Edition -- a very good dic), the latter is preferred. Breast in the meaning of the chest is only a secondary usage now. To shed more light on this, I checked an unabridged Web from the 1930-1960 period. They give the "fore part" def as first, the mammary def as second. So, there has been a shift in usage over the past half century or so, away from the definition you prefer. But neither then nor now is there any basis for saying one is correct and the other is not.

Interestingly, "bosom" also both has singular and plural usage.

53 posted on 03/08/2002 6:32:40 AM PST by T'wit
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To: Snuffington; Pharmboy
I think the idea about brewing has been around for some time, Recently there was a report claiming some supporting evidence. Fossil evidence of early cultivated grains which seemed more suited to brewing than to making bread. I would think I would have saved that, I'll see if I can find it. The interpretation of the story in Genesis as an allegory for the transition is not new with me either, although I think it is less commonly found than the brewing hypothesis. Once one hears of that allegory, the verses cited lend themselves naturally to that interpretation. There is also Genesis 3:23,

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

I find these hypotheses amusing and posted more in a spitit of fun than anything else, so I hope you read my authoritative declaration that the explanation of the author of the posted article is wrong in that light.

54 posted on 03/08/2002 6:36:19 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: crevo_list
Human origins and development bump!
55 posted on 03/08/2002 6:38:25 AM PST by cracker
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To: mykdsmom
I wasn't able to lost weight on the Atkins diet but I did feel the best I've even felt in recent memory. I know that carbs are pure poison for my body but want the reward of weight loss that goes with the diet. That I could never achieve.

When I started my lo-carb diet, I lost 15 lbs in around 4 months. But then I slowly gained 10 lbs back. It's been 1 1/2 years now, & I still wouldn't go back to my hi carb past. I was getting constant heartburn before, and the Zantac commercials were calling me. A month into the diet I realized it had stopped. Just for that reason alone I'll never go back.

56 posted on 03/08/2002 4:42:21 PM PST by jennyp
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To: Snuffington; Pharmboy
Uncorking the past, "The Economist, Dec. 22, 2001

"In addition to being at the heart of Mesopotamian culture, beer may even have been the foundation for the whole of western civilization. In the 1950s Jonathan Sauer, an American botanist, suggested that the original motivation for domesticating cereal crops (and thus switching from a nomadic to a settled lifestyle) might have been to make beer, rather than bread. The question of whether beer or bread came first has been debated ever since."

"Supporters of Sauer's idea have pointed out that many of the first cereals to be farmed were unsuitable for baking without tiresome preparation, but were suitable for brewing. Beer, they suggest, may have emerged in an attempt to make wild barley edible by mixing it with water and fruit. The thick beer produced in this way would be just as nutritious as bread, in addition to being slightly alcoholic."

57 posted on 03/09/2002 6:28:22 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: Snuffington, Pharmboy
The link that I gave may not work; it works for me because I am registered at the site as a subscriber to the print edition, but some articles are restricted. What I provided is all that is relevent to this particular topic.
58 posted on 03/09/2002 6:33:35 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: jennyp
jennyp--just because of your evolutionary knowledge and sophistication--you shouldn't go back to carbs.
59 posted on 03/09/2002 6:34:50 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Aurelius
The link worked for me--and thanks. Great article.

Cheers!

60 posted on 03/09/2002 6:36:55 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: arielb
I agree with your way of thinking. The life expectancy of humans has increased enormously since switching to a carbohydrate-based diet. Granted, some of that increase can be attributed to better medical care and hygiene. But as you point out, the Asians, who eat mostly rice have very long lifespans. As do Italians who eat lots of breads, wines and pastas.

I like a good steak every now and then but I would rather have fish and rice, or a soup with lots of vegetables, rice or pasta thrown in. And of course, lots of carbohydrate-laden beer!

61 posted on 03/09/2002 6:45:47 PM PST by SamAdams76
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To: mykdsmom
Eat fruits and vegetables whenever you crave...stay away from anything processed and/or that contains sugar (except fruits)...drink a crapload of water...engage in hand-to-hand combat at least three times a day, preferably to first blood but to the death if necessary...eat meat a lot (fresher the better, preferably some you've killed yourself to insure quality)...and last but not least, two words: TANTRIC YOGA. Oh, yeah, and send me $49.95 for the advice.
62 posted on 03/09/2002 6:46:34 PM PST by Pistias
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To: SamAdams76
More than half of the deaths in the neolithic and paleolithic period were due to violence. That's why the AVERAGE life expectancy was bad. Carbohydrates in large proportions were an impossibility for non-agricultural man to concume: that's a fact not a supposition.

My compromise with my hunter-gatherer genes? (not that you asked, but here goes anyway)

No carbos during the week--including beer, pizza, bagels, pasta, potatoes, etc--but whatever I want on the weekends. It works. (I do have whiskey during the week, though).

Cheers,

63 posted on 03/09/2002 6:50:37 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
Let's add a kink to that grain development timeline: It's quite likely that grain was first cultivated for brewing beer, not baking bread. Finding evidence of humans growing grain does not guarantee that they were actually eating the grain!
64 posted on 03/09/2002 6:56:52 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: Redcloak
As has been pointed out on this thread, the grinding of grain for flour came after the domestication, so the evidence indeed points to fermented spirits. You're a man who will not take yes for an answer!!
65 posted on 03/09/2002 7:00:42 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
I have read this and it seems to fit. One other aspect, the bible, with its rules for living in close quarters with the other farmers and brewers seems to fit as well. While a tribe could move on, there was little reason for a set of rules involving coveting of one's neighbor's wife or servant, or still.

Of course to have a still and the grain to ferment meant living a life without much travel. My ancestors in the pacific northwest were reported to be the only tribe in the new world who were able to sustain life in a single area without periodic migrations. So they could have fermented grapes and berries. (I guess thats where I get an affection for the products of the grape and grain). But I'm always struggling with my body's desire to store food for the upcoming possible famine.

66 posted on 03/09/2002 7:11:17 PM PST by KC_for_Freedom
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To: KC_for_Freedom
But I'm always struggling with my body's desire to store food for the upcoming possible famine.

LOL!! Don't we all!!

67 posted on 03/09/2002 7:17:00 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
I'll drink to that.
68 posted on 03/09/2002 10:34:29 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: T'wit
Interestingly, "bosom" also both has singular and plural usage.

Euphemism usage is now an art form. Toilet has its origins as the term "toilette" as m'lady's little chore of making up her face.

69 posted on 03/09/2002 10:43:45 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: rightofrush
> Euphemism usage is now an art form.

True, true. I don't think there's anything recent about it -- look at the Victorians! They had euphemisms for every slightest indelicacy in life. Seems to me we were foolish to strip away those illusions. Better to keep our gaze high than to wallow in the mud.

70 posted on 03/10/2002 6:36:03 AM PST by T'wit
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To: T'wit
They had euphemisms for every slightest indelicacy in life.

It some Victorian lady that was embarrassed by by the different parts of fowl and started the use of "dark" and "light" meat to distinguish those parts.

BTW, plain speach has the gift of unambiguity.

71 posted on 03/10/2002 11:39:52 PM PST by rightofrush
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To: Snuffington

Paleolithic people did not all die before 30. The AVERAGE lifespan was about 30, but the main factor in bringing it down that low was high childhood mortality. Obviously there was no modern-day medical care in the Paleolithic, so a fairly high percentage of people didn't make it to adulthood due to injury or illness. If you survived the usual childhood mishaps and diseases, you had an excellent chance of living to a ripe old age, almost certainly in better health than many folks of comparable age today.
Honestly, this misconception about life expectancy is so widespread it is hard for me to believe so many people don't understand the mathematics of averages. An AVERAGE life span of 30 does not in any way indicate that 30 is the maximum age attainable, or that 30 is "old", or even that most people died at the age of 30. AVERAGES, people!!!!
Edit/Delete Message


72 posted on 05/31/2006 8:00:11 AM PDT by Toahine
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The Paleo Diet: Lose Weight and Get Healthy by Eating the Food You Were Designed to Eat The Evolution Diet: What and How We Were Designed to Eat Health Secrets of the Stone Age, Second Edition The Origin Diet: How Eating Like Our Stone Age Ancestors Will Maximize Your Health Metabolic Man: Ten Thousand Years from Eden (The Long Search for a Personal Nutrition From our Forest Origins to the Supermarkets of Today) Neanderthin: Eat Like a Caveman to Achieve a Lean, Strong, Healthy Body
The Paleo Diet:
Lose Weight and Get Healthy
by Eating the Food
You Were Designed to Eat

by Loren Cordain
The Evolution Diet:
What and How
We Were Designed to Eat

by Joseph Stephen Breese Morse
Health Secrets of the Stone Age,
Second Edition

by Philip J. Goscienski
The Origin Diet:
How Eating Like Our
Stone Age Ancestors
Will Maximize Your Health

by Elizabeth Somer
Metabolic Man:
Ten Thousand Years from Eden
(The Long Search for
a Personal Nutrition From
our Forest Origins to
the Supermarkets of Today)

by Charles Heizer Wharton
Neanderthin:
Eat Like a Caveman
to Achieve a Lean, Strong,
Healthy Body

by Ray Audette


73 posted on 10/07/2006 10:02:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: grey_whiskers

An old topic from Pharmboy which may be of interest.


74 posted on 10/07/2006 10:03:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
Thanks, it fits right in.

(Sigh.) No matter what I think of or write, some other Freeper has already beat me to it...

Cheers!

75 posted on 10/07/2006 4:54:19 PM PDT by grey_whiskers
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To: grey_whiskers

I found it by accident, or rather, due to Googling for something else... kinda like when I was a kid, looking up something in the encyclopedia, getting distracted by something else, then not being able to remember what I was looking up.


76 posted on 10/07/2006 5:39:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: T'wit
You'll do just anything to get a photo of breasts into Free Republic, won't you?

Well, I'm not complaining about it.

77 posted on 10/07/2006 5:50:17 PM PDT by Aarchaeus
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To: Aarchaeus

78 posted on 10/08/2006 3:04:50 AM PDT by T'wit (It is not possible to "go too far" criticizing liberals. No matter what you say, they're worse.)
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To: Pharmboy
My main problem with these arguments is that - just because we survived and were healthy under these conditions - it does not mean that it was "ideal".

For example, I raise ALOT of cacti. And, most come from deserts with minimal nutrients and h2o - this is their natural environment and they do well. However, given more nutrients and more h3o - they do even better (up to a point). The trouble with "more water and nutrients" is that, under those conditions, the cacti thrive - but other plants thrive even more, overtaking the cactus and dominating the biome

The logic of the article precludes interspecies competition".

NOW, I'm doing to eat my fruit loops!

79 posted on 10/08/2006 3:23:39 AM PDT by KeepUSfree (WOSD = fascism pure and simple.)
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To: KeepUSfree
Yes indeed...what exactly IS "ideal"? For a free-living population, in the Darwinian sense, ideal means supporting maximum reproduction: this does not necessarily mean extended life. So, we can alter environments to make individuals hardier (and your cacti are a good example), but will they live longer?

Certainly for hundreds of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers we ate SIGNIFICANTLY less carbs (both simple AND complex) than we do now, and it makes sense to get closer to the diet that our genes and proteins were set for. Our ancestors did not die of cardiovascular disease like we do. That is diet and lack of exercise.

And you certainly can eat your Froot Loops, just moderate.

80 posted on 10/08/2006 3:50:15 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: blam; PatrickHenry; aculeus; Coleus

A ping for your interest...old thread that just reappeared.


81 posted on 10/08/2006 3:51:33 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: arielb
"The Chinese and Japanese.."

They also have very low incidents of digestive system cancer. Obviously this could be due to other factors but I've always wondered if we were designed to eat meat why our intestines weren't designed like those of other meat eaters.

82 posted on 10/08/2006 3:57:44 AM PDT by Proud_texan (Thinking about all the componets of a situation requires thought.)
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To: Pharmboy

I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa.

83 posted on 10/08/2006 4:05:17 AM PDT by SC DOC
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To: SC DOC
LOL! It probably was the low carb mango salsa...
84 posted on 10/08/2006 4:12:18 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: Proud_texan

We are not pure carnivores (like cats), but rather omnivores (like bears, pigs, rats, dogs).


85 posted on 10/08/2006 4:15:01 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: Pharmboy
Very interesting article. Thanks for the post!

Carolyn

86 posted on 10/08/2006 4:16:11 AM PDT by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: Pharmboy
Eat like cave men and women.

As long as we get the same amount of exercise and fast for a few days every few weeks.
I do think the newest food pyramid is more PC than healthy. Sorry, fed - I would make a really lousy vegetarian.

87 posted on 10/08/2006 4:27:14 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: mykdsmom
I wasn't able to lost weight on the Atkins diet but I did feel the best I've even felt in recent memory. I know that carbs are pure poison for my body but want the reward of weight loss that goes with the diet. That I could never achieve.

You might want to visit Dr. Mercola's site and do a search on conjugated linoleic acid (CLA).

88 posted on 10/08/2006 5:27:28 AM PDT by Colorado Buckeye (It's the culture stupid!)
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To: Lil'freeper

Bump.


89 posted on 10/08/2006 5:30:14 AM PDT by Colorado Buckeye (It's the culture stupid!)
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To: dighton
Honey, even if I ate nothing but mastodon steaks, I ain't never going to look like that ;-)
90 posted on 10/08/2006 5:36:01 AM PDT by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: Pharmboy
Robert Crayhon, M.S. is a clinician, researcher and educator who was called "one of the top ten nutritionists in the country" by Self magazine (August 1993). An associate editor of Total Health magazine, he is the author of best-seller Robert Crayhon's Nutrition Made Simple and the just published The Carnitine Miracle (M. Evans and Company).

Researcher, ha ha ha. He has one listing in PubMed and that's for a comment on a paper in J Am Coll Nutr. 1998 Jun;17(3):207-15. And notice that that was in 1998.

Yeah, the paleolithic diet is fine if you want to live in a way that brings a life expectancy of about 25-30 years.
91 posted on 10/08/2006 5:37:53 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Pharmboy
The switch from hunter-gatherer to agriculture made much more possible than beer. It made government possible -- because farm communities, tied to the land, were easy targets for spoliation and slaves. (Hunter-gatherers have nothing worth stealing, so we never saw the state develop in their domain. See "The State" by Franz Oppenheimer, published in Germany c. 1912, as I recall.)

Government, in the fullness of time, inflicted swarms of liberals upon us, eating out our substance. If it weren't for Free Republic, we'd all be wearing chains and picking cotton. So send Jim some money -- y'hear?

92 posted on 10/08/2006 8:36:19 AM PDT by T'wit (It is not possible to "go too far" criticizing liberals. No matter what you say, they're worse.)
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To: Pharmboy
"A ping for your interest...old thread that just reappeared.

Thanks, I like it when that happens.

93 posted on 10/08/2006 10:33:39 AM PDT by blam
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To: Pharmboy

This is the ancient Munro diet. Eliminate carbs altogether. Bugs and berries okay.


94 posted on 10/08/2006 10:35:36 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: RightWhale

I don't know the Munro diet, but I do know a bit about this one. It is based on pretty extensive data regarding the diets of hunting-gathering persons from all over the world (these people's diets would be closest to that of our ancestral hunter-gatherers) so, it has that.


95 posted on 10/08/2006 3:53:35 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: Pharmboy

Munro or Monroe I read about maybe 35 years ago and the book was old then. Said we were carnivores, and furthermore used to live very long lives. When our ancestors began agriculture and eating wheat, etc, our lifetimes were reduced to what they are now. Kind of questionable, but Munro said eat all the meat, eggs you want, avoid everything with starch. Orange juice okay. I would not recommend this, just reporting.


96 posted on 10/08/2006 4:29:00 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: RightWhale

Mine sounds like an updating of Munro's point of view with more data to back it up. But Munro's basic point was, and remains, correct.


97 posted on 10/08/2006 5:18:28 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: 1234
Type O+ here as well. I spent years feeding an ear, nose and throat doctor to deal with sinus problems. After reading Eat Right for Your Type, I started eliminating stuff on the "bad list". It turned out that wheat was the primary source of the post nasal drip. A wheat free diet leaves my sinuses clear all the time...except when I catch a legitimate cold. Fresh milk was another item eliminated. The gasto-intestinal distress that was almost constant went away with elimination of fresh milk. Total elimination of dairy also fixes the swelling in my throat. It makes life challenging to keep all the bad stuff away.

When I eliminate the bad stuff from ER4YT and follow an Atkins low carb diet, I can lose weight and stay exceptionally healthy. A little regular exercise helps a bunch. Russian kettlebells are my exercise of choice.

98 posted on 10/08/2006 6:04:01 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Pharmboy; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
A Blast from the Past. Topic is from 2002.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

99 posted on 10/08/2006 8:14:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

btt


100 posted on 10/08/2006 8:21:44 PM PDT by Ciexyz (Satisfied owner of a 2007 Toyota Corolla.)
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