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The Scout, the suspect and the SWAT team Shooting:
Baltimore Sun ^ | 18 March 2002 | Gail Gibson, Michael James and Laura Barnhardt

Posted on 03/18/2002 3:06:32 AM PST by Lloyd227

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:07 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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Please people, help keep the pressure on this out of control government agency.
It's time for these people to remember what "Public Servant" means.
1 posted on 03/18/2002 3:06:32 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
police spotted Blottenberger in a Ford Escort at a Pasadena gas station. Police have said he abandoned the Escort and tried to run before he was captured

Why wasn't he shot running away? Oh, these were ill trained police officers who have more than questions to answer for an illegal shoot.

2 posted on 03/18/2002 3:24:48 AM PST by TAP ONLINE
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To: Lloyd227
"The suspect was not holding a weapon, although investigators said a loaded firearm was nearby. The shooting was ruled justified. "

This guy was involved in a killing of another unarmed suspect before this. A loaded firearm was "nearby." Can you say trigger happy cowboy? I knew you could.

3 posted on 03/18/2002 3:34:50 AM PST by Zorobabel
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To: Lloyd227
Geez Louise. Blottenberger, the air pistol bandit, hardly seems worthy of a FBI SWAT team. Notice also how the use of a snitch results in a bungled operation. Over the years, there have been quite a few stories of bungled raids, (i.e. wrong homes raided, innocent people terrorized), all on the word of an "informant".

The FBI SWAT team is an accident waiting to happen. Do they have a logo? A motto? Something with Skull and crossbones would be fitting. Perhaps a motto of "They're all "clean shoots" sooner or later."

4 posted on 03/18/2002 3:52:18 AM PST by csvset
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To: Zorobabel
Can you say trigger happy cowboy?

Trigger happy cowboy and a "drop" gun.

5 posted on 03/18/2002 3:54:34 AM PST by arthurus
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To: Lloyd227
A private detective working with Weiner and Weltchek said last week that two agents in the Baltimore office had told him privately that the incident would be considered justified and discouraged him from investigating further.

Of course it's a "clean shoot", the FiBbIe works for the government. Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.,ad nausium, they're all "clean shoots".

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '5-'66

6 posted on 03/18/2002 3:57:34 AM PST by Boonie Rat
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To: Lloyd227;Joe Montana;Fred Mertz;nunya bidness
BUMP !!!!!

Thanks for posting this.

7 posted on 03/18/2002 4:00:35 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: arthurus
"Trigger happy cowboy and a "drop" gun. "

You noticed that too huh?

8 posted on 03/18/2002 4:02:00 AM PST by Zorobabel
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To: csvset
This is a PR spin article, imho. What shows it is that gun detail in the article -- the author goes to great pains to associate it in the reader's mind with a "semi-automatic" handgun, describes the colors, yet never mentions that it is an air gun. At other places in the article there are other "convenient" or spin suggestions -- all to mitigate the FBI's actions.
9 posted on 03/18/2002 4:08:38 AM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
bttt
10 posted on 03/18/2002 4:33:03 AM PST by Zorobabel
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To: Lloyd227; Lurker; Noumenon; zog; sneakypete
Any sudden movement that could have been perceived as a threat could ean the shooting - even if there were mistakes - is justified.

Sneeze and you're Swiss cheese...according to this apologist article.

Bottomline, an unarmed man was shot in the face and nearly killed by a trigger-happy Gestapo agent. What's so difficult to understand about this?

11 posted on 03/18/2002 4:54:45 AM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Zorobabel
"This is a PR spin article, imho"

You're absolutely right. Worse yet, this is the only paper I can find that's giving this story ANY coverage at all.

Don't let the pressure on them ease up or this is sure to become a "clean shoot"

12 posted on 03/18/2002 5:06:50 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Zorobabel
Harkum and Schultz have said the agents ordered them to put their hands in the air and to get out of the car. But that point also is in dispute: Investigators say the agents firmly deny telling Schultz or Harkum to get out.

Gee, who to believe, an Eagle Scout or four FBI agents?

13 posted on 03/18/2002 5:08:15 AM PST by bvw
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To: Lloyd227
Soon after joining the team, Braga was involved with two other law enforcement officers in the fatal shooting of a murder suspect in Laurel, FBI officials have confirmed. The suspect was not holding a weapon, although investigators said a loaded firearm was nearby. The shooting was ruled justified.

Yeah. Of course. It seems that anything they do is "justified."

14 posted on 03/18/2002 5:19:43 AM PST by Demidog
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To: bvw
A few hours later, King and his girlfriend searched the basement of their Curtis Bay rowhouse and found two black-and-silver air pistols under a television cabinet.
15 posted on 03/18/2002 5:20:39 AM PST by drjimmy
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To: csvset
Something with Skull and crossbones would be fitting.

I'm thinking swastika.

16 posted on 03/18/2002 5:22:20 AM PST by Demidog
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To: drjimmy
That makes me think that perhaps King was involved in the robbery.....but that's just me...
17 posted on 03/18/2002 5:23:43 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
BTTT
18 posted on 03/18/2002 5:25:56 AM PST by Unicorn
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To: drjimmy
Yes, that is correct. I missed it. I was too quick on the trigger.

But I wasn't holding an assault rifle a few feet away from some honest citizen's head.

19 posted on 03/18/2002 5:31:01 AM PST by bvw
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To: Travis McGee; Jeff Head; harpseal
A remarkble series of mixups

Here's the Baltimore Sun's spin on the Joe Schultz shooting.

20 posted on 03/18/2002 5:39:36 AM PST by Dukie
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To: Lloyd227
Why do we have an unconstitutional national police force? Why aren't local cops making the arrests? Why are bank robberies Federal crimes, if they don't cross State borders?
21 posted on 03/18/2002 5:39:52 AM PST by Kermit
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To: Kermit
Why do we have an unconstitutional national police force? Why aren't local cops making the arrests? Why are bank robberies Federal crimes, if they don't cross State borders?

Good questions, every one.

22 posted on 03/18/2002 5:45:06 AM PST by MileHi
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To: Lloyd227
"Anyone who would question anything any law enforcement official does is a traitor." </FBI Press Release>
23 posted on 03/18/2002 6:25:15 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: Zorobabel,The Shrew,PatrioticAmerican,Myrddin,harpseal,Squantos,Jefferson Adams,Twodees,Abundy,ma
When the FBI is always right in every single shooting case, they are no more than a death squad with a license to kill.
24 posted on 03/18/2002 6:32:46 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: bvw,Fred Mertz
DON'T MOVE!

HANDS UP!

GET OUT NOW!

DON'T MOVE I SAID!

GET OUT! GET OUT! OUT!!

DON'T MOVE!!

GET OUT NOW!!

(Eagle Scout reaches for seat belt)

BANG!!

.

.

"Clearly a justified shooting. The four FBI SWAT team members with machine guns and bullet proof vests cannot take any chances. That seat belt could have been a hand grenade or .44 magnum. Better safe than sorry. Mistakes will be made."

25 posted on 03/18/2002 6:39:28 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"You are either with State Security, or you are with the peasants."

ES IST VERBOTEN, STAAT SEKURITAT ZU KRITISIERON!

26 posted on 03/18/2002 6:40:56 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: MileHi
A FedGov lawyer would tell you, with a straight face:

Because the money in the banks crosses borders.

Because the suspect might have recently crossed a border.

Because the jurisdiction here is well inside the lines by precedent (i.e. other outrages are even worse so leave us alone about this one).

27 posted on 03/18/2002 6:41:15 AM PST by eno_
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To: Travis McGee
This case cries out for criminal prosecution of the "agent" (still anonymous isn't he?) who assaulted the innocent victim. Yet, the agent will never be prosecuted for his crime. So what does this leave us with? A secret police who can do what they want without any consequences. There isn't any substantive difference now between places like the former USSR and the US as far as the accountability of the government for its actions.
28 posted on 03/18/2002 6:46:06 AM PST by from occupied ga
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To: Lloyd227
Braga, 35, is a former Marine captain who was a rifle platoon commander in the Persian Gulf war.

I wonder if anybody bothered to check to see if his paperwork was legimitate. I have a VERY hard time believing a trained Marine infantry officer could or would panic in a situation as lame as this,and end up damn near killing a innocent person. If he WAS a Marine,I'm betting he was a REMF.

Soon after joining the team, Braga was involved with two other law enforcement officers in the fatal shooting of a murder suspect in Laurel, FBI officials have confirmed. The suspect was not holding a weapon, although investigators said a loaded firearm was nearby. The shooting was ruled justified.

Of course it was ruled to be justfied. These are the King's men we are talking about here,and they have a perfect legal right to kill any of the commoners who cross them. After all,there was sure to be a gun somewhere within 10 miles or so. It's really not fair to expect those who sit at the right hand of royalty to take chances when dealing with common trash.

29 posted on 03/18/2002 6:50:38 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Zorobabel
Can you say trigger happy cowboy?

Can you say "proven coward unfit to possess either a gun OR a badge."?

30 posted on 03/18/2002 6:52:20 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: bvw
Gee, who to believe, an Eagle Scout or four FBI agents?

Gee,that's a tough one,but I'm forced to believe the Feebs have discovered some new method of subduing,searching,and handcuffing a suspect while he and she are still buckled into their safety belts inside their car. I am anxiously awaiting a videotape demonstration of that exercise. After all,the Feebs wouldn't lie to us,would they?

31 posted on 03/18/2002 6:56:45 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: from occupied ga
"This case cries out for criminal prosecution of the "agent" (still anonymous isn't he?)"

His name is Christopher Braga

Remember that name!

32 posted on 03/18/2002 6:58:29 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Kermit
Why are bank robberies Federal crimes, if they don't cross State borders?

The justification for this is because the feds insure all individual depositer losses up to 100 grand,so that makes stealing money from a bank a federal offense. The reason this happened was the depression and bank robbers caused people to lose faith in banks in the 30's.

33 posted on 03/18/2002 6:59:28 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Dukie; Travis McGee; Squantos; Jeff Head; Fred Mertz; Sneakypete; Abundy; one_particular_harbour...
Thanks for the heads up. We are treated to some more details in this article that are very damning to every FBI agent involved.

Minutes later, the informant arrived and was asked by an agent to identify the wounded man, whose face was so bloody his features were barely distinguishable. But the informant knew before he looked at the young man that he wasn't Blottenberger. He told agents, "It's not even the right car." Schultz, the informant said, was conscious and able to identify himself: "My wallet is in my back pocket."

One of the allegations made against the FBI agents is that they denied Mr. Schultz immediate medical attention from paramedics while he was lying on the ground in a pool of his own blood. By waiting for minutes after Mr. Schultz was shot for the informant to identify him we are treated to some coorboration of that story. Can anybody say conspiracy to deprive Mr. Schultz of his civil rights by denying him medical assistance? Every one of these agents should be charged with felonies and they should be defending themselves. There is at minimum probable cause that they committed several crimes and there is more than sufficient evidence from the FBI's own self serving account to start the prosecution of these agents. every additional second of delay damages the FBI and our nation more. Clearly Brosnan faces some of the responsibility for this crime. He made the initial call to go after this Trans-Am. Now we are talking five agents controling one wounded person and one sixteen year old girl and they waited more than seconds to call for paramedics. They waited for an id from the informant before they got out Mr. Schultz's id. They approached with M-4's to a car they had stopped not using standard felony stop procedure. Since they did not recover Mr. Schultz's liscense immediately and Mr. Scultz may be presumed to have been rather vocal about questioning why he was stopped we have a pattern of abuse that adds up to attempted murder. The team included Braga, Brad Sheaf, Don Kornek and Steve Stowe

More names to watch for and to check out. We know Braga killed one other person in a shooting incident. That according to this paper was ruled justified, even though the person shot was not holding a weapon at the time of the shooting. On another thread Freeper muawiyah mentioned at least another shooting involving Braga. Those prior incidents should have investigations re-opened.

In general it looks like the FBI which clearly has had enough time and ecidence to either proceed to charges or rule the shooting justified has done neither. What we have instead is reports of threats to a former FBI agent who was retained to investigate the incident. Now the FBI according to their report given an average speed of 30 mph is talking about 40 seconds before the young lady driving the Trans Am stopped. This is hardly time enough to determine that she was trying to elude them. If her speed was greater than 30 mph then the time decreases. Another damning detail from the agents.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

34 posted on 03/18/2002 7:02:12 AM PST by harpseal
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To: sneakypete
I wonder if anybody bothered to check to see if his paperwork was legimitate. I have a VERY hard time believing a trained Marine infantry officer could or would panic in a situation as lame as this,and end up damn near killing a innocent person. If he WAS a Marine,I'm betting he was a REMF.

Perhaps, but I've run across my share of dirtbag Marine officers - even in some ground combat units. Maybe this guy was drummed out after a brief time in the Corps.

Whatever he was, he has abandoned any pretext of being a Marine. If this were a Marine, first off, he wouldn't have put himself in a place where he would be shooting the wrong person, Secondly, he would have owned up to his mistake and resigned his position immediately, and face up to the music - whether it means life in jail, and whatever reparations to the family. This is not a Marine, because he has NO honor. This guy is hiding behind the FBI - if he had any honor and accountability at all, he would resign and get ready to be accountable for his actions.

35 posted on 03/18/2002 7:05:31 AM PST by fogarty
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To: donut watch, cap'n crunch, Jefferson Adams; squantos
See #34.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

36 posted on 03/18/2002 7:06:44 AM PST by harpseal
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To: Travis McGee
You forgot to add the 4 different screams of "Motherlover,or I'll blow your bleeping brains out!" Nobody in charge,and everybody with a gun and a set of lungs to scream conflicting orders and threats.Is it any wonder crap like this happens?
37 posted on 03/18/2002 7:08:16 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Lloyd227
and don't forget these names either as, until I hear otherwise, these men are considered accomplices:

"The team included Braga, Brad Sheaf, Don Kornek and Steve Stowe, according to an investigator's report"

38 posted on 03/18/2002 7:08:40 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: from occupied ga
There isn't any substantive difference now between places like the former USSR and the US as far as the accountability of the government for its actions.

Yup,and we can all thank Bubba bin Bombing for starting this trend,and Bubba Bush for making it official policy by not only ignoring it,but blocking investigations and charges against people who SHOULD have been charged and convicted.

39 posted on 03/18/2002 7:10:28 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Demidog
"That makes me think that perhaps King was involved in the robbery.....but that's just me..."

You win the prize on that one. If he was involved the FBI should never have cut a deal with him. They should have just busted them both and let them turn on one another. Imo King was most likely Blottenberger's dealer. Blottenberger was the addict. The crime the FBI was after was bank robbery, not drugs. So they turned the dealer to informant so they could bust his customer who was robbing banks. Drugs weren't the FBI's concern here. That's for the DEA.

40 posted on 03/18/2002 7:17:36 AM PST by Justa
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To: fogarty
. This is not a Marine, because he has NO honor. This guy is hiding behind the FBI - if he had any honor and accountability at all, he would resign and get ready to be accountable for his actions.

I can't argue with any of that. Apparently,there is no requirement in the FBI now for honor,pride,or self-respect.

41 posted on 03/18/2002 7:20:37 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Travis McGee
One thing which causes these kind of incidents to keep occurring is that the average person will not have it happen to them, although it was an "average person" who was involved this time.

Most people I know still think the police or FBI can do no wrong and must be defended at all costs.

The fact that this agent has apparently shot two unarmed people must make him a fugitive from the law of averages. Also a fugitive from the ranks of decency.

That FBI agents can kill someone because they make a sudden move is rediculous. Each case should stand on its own but that should never be enough by itself.

42 posted on 03/18/2002 7:21:46 AM PST by yarddog
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To: sneakypete
The justification for this is because the feds insure all individual depositer losses up to 100 grand,so that makes stealing money from a bank a federal offense.
Bingo! When you hear or see "FDIC" or "FSLIC" with a bank commercial, that means your deposits are insured by the federal government. And that means that the FBI investigates robberies from those banks (not all banks are federally insured).
43 posted on 03/18/2002 7:27:36 AM PST by drjimmy
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To: Donald Stone
The Harkums are quietly working with Peter G. Angelos' law firm in reviewing their legal options.

Angelos?!


44 posted on 03/18/2002 7:45:00 AM PST by nunya bidness
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To: sneakypete;Travis McGee;Noumenon
The Conversation after the Bang

hey Blottenberger, we Gotcha you little MotherF*5$#@er. we are the real bad a#*ed MotherF*^%$ers here. sceam in pain you a*$hole Blottenburger

Huh? I'm not Blottenberger my name is Schultz call me an ambulance.

Lie there and die Motherf*$#^er This is the FBI your dealing with.

Please my liscense is in my wallet...

It goes on. but why bother.

The consequences of this action will be very much unintended for all theose who are now making decisions about it.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

45 posted on 03/18/2002 7:54:03 AM PST by harpseal
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To: harpseal
I'm feeling a black rage, I'm glad you are able to outline the salient points so well for us.
46 posted on 03/18/2002 7:54:28 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: harpseal
Good summary. These names must not be lost or forgotten.
47 posted on 03/18/2002 7:59:15 AM PST by maica
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To: fogarty
Remember, Special Agent and FBI SWAT member Chris Braga LEFT the Marines to join the Ruby Ridge-Waco Gang.

Maybe he wasn't seeing enough "action" in the peacetime USMC, and wanted to join an outfit with looser "rules of engagement" and a better chance of shooting "perps". I was in Navy Special Warfare, and I am very familiar with the "pray for war" mentality.

If you haven't seen it yet, read this chapter excerpt from my novel in progress.

"The Raid: New Fiction from the War On Domestic Terrorism"

I see Braga as the epitome of BATF STU team leaders Hummel and Jaeger. These FBI HRT and SWAT and ATF SRT guys ALL come from a military specops background. They never put in any time in investigations, they go straight from the SEALs, Rangers, USMC etc to a federal "specops team", where they pick up the same kevlar armor and weapons they used in the military. They bring to "law enforcement" the wartime military "just get results, collateral damage is expected" mentality they had in their old outfits. It's no wonder these incidents occur.

Much worse is going to happen now that that post 9-11 they are on such a hair trigger.

48 posted on 03/18/2002 8:06:13 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
I'm feeling a black rage, I'm glad you are able to outline the salient points so well for us.

I feel that same rage and I share your opinions about the greminalpoliezie. Albeit my German is almost non existant. I am absolutely enraged about this incident and the total lack of an arrest of the culpable individuals. these agents are doing more harm to our national security than anyone except maybe the hijackers who flew the planes into the buildings on September 11, 2001. The FBI is supposed to be our lead domestic national security agency. The failure to prosecute these agents makes the entire FBI suspect and complicit in the attempted murder of an innocent person and that statement is based only upon what the FBI has allowed to be released. If there was anything in the 911 tape that was exculpatory it would be in the public domain already.

Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown

49 posted on 03/18/2002 8:09:59 AM PST by harpseal
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To: from occupied ga
Just keep this in mind mein Kamerad:

ES IST VERBOTEN, STAAT SEKURITAT ZU KRITISIERON!

There is a war on, and State Security must NOT be criticized or impeded in any way. If they are not permitted to keep their fingers on their hair triggers, they may not stop the next 9-11. What is a peasant or three shot in the face compared to that?

50 posted on 03/18/2002 8:10:10 AM PST by Travis McGee
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