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The Scout, the suspect and the SWAT team Shooting:
Baltimore Sun ^ | 18 March 2002 | Gail Gibson, Michael James and Laura Barnhardt

Posted on 03/18/2002 3:06:32 AM PST by Lloyd227

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:07 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Donald Stone
It remains to be seen if Midura and Hunt decide to continue the white wash then. They have a chance to do the right thing (any bets as to whether or not they do).
101 posted on 03/18/2002 11:18:07 AM PST by from occupied ga
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To: semaj
Yeah, bitterness noted and felt here too.
102 posted on 03/18/2002 11:23:22 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: from occupied ga
I've had personal dealings with the FBI in Maryland, in particular Dave Midura,SAC,FBI Field office,Annapolis, MD. and Lynne Hunt SAC Baltimore, Maryland.

Both of these individuals are as sleazy and corrupt as the day is long.

The U.S. Dept. of Justice back in mid 2001 was investigating the former U.S. Attorney for Maryland, Lynne Battaglia, her Chief of White Collar Crime,Dave Kelberman, and the head of the Maryland State Police, David B. Mitchell for alleged corruption. When the U.S. Attorney is corrupt so go the FBI, my guess is that Battaglia was instrumental in Lynne Hunt becoming head of the FBI.

Annapolis, MD. (Anne Arundel County) is the heart of Maryland politics, Annapolis is also a haven for organized crime, white collar criminals and corrupt politicians because all the local, state, & federal law enforcement agencies, like good little lap dogs can be made to "roll over" and "lay down".

If you want to read more about corruption in Maryland try

103 posted on 03/18/2002 11:39:17 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Donald Stone
Both of these individuals are as sleazy and corrupt as the day is long.

In other words, typical armed federal bureaucrats.

104 posted on 03/18/2002 11:43:32 AM PST by from occupied ga
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To: Travis McGee
Us old-timers with grown children could be pretty dangerous but more in the cunning than physical nature.

Actually I think I could still be pretty fierce for about 10 seconds, then I would be sucking wind.

My wife would be mad if she knew I said this, but although I am not as good as I once was, I am as good once as I ever was.

105 posted on 03/18/2002 11:44:51 AM PST by yarddog
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To: semaj
Although it technically doesn't have a bearing on the FBI agent's guilt, the fact that these kids seem to have been pretty decent kids is what really burns me.

I think this one is not going away although it might take a major news org to do a story for it to really take off.

106 posted on 03/18/2002 11:49:44 AM PST by yarddog
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To: nunya bidness
Peter G. Angelos

Angelos could probably broker a deal behind closed doors and help the FBI save face.

107 posted on 03/18/2002 11:51:22 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: bvw
The article certainly causes me to believe that the FIB's an unmitigated mess.
108 posted on 03/18/2002 11:58:38 AM PST by Spirited
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To: yarddog
The only salient question is how many times can an old timer pull a trigger in that ten seconds?

Any answer one or over passes the dangerousness test.

109 posted on 03/18/2002 12:00:22 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Donald Stone
Trust Fidel's bosom buddy Pete Angelos to sell us out.
110 posted on 03/18/2002 12:01:18 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Donald Stone
Everyone in Maryland knows who he is but for those who dont:


Peter G. Angelos (with Georgia K.)
March 5, 2001

Peter Angelos wanted to be a politician, but he didn't get very far. Though he was briefly elected to the Baltimore City Council, voters rejected his bids for Maryland's state senate in the 1950s and for mayor in the '60s. But Angelos remains a politician at heart. The former criminal defense attorney has been called the "most powerful private citizen in Maryland." And as his campaign contributions and court cases demonstrate, his reach extends far beyond his home state.

Angelos has refashioned himself as attorney to the little guy, representing consumers and workers in class-action suits against the likes of Philip Morris and Motorola. The turning point in his career came in the early 1980s, when labor leaders cajoled him into accepting a suit on behalf of asbestos workers. Within a decade, asbestos had made Angelos a very rich man. His firm has reportedly made more than $100 million on asbestos rulings alone, and still handles as many as 500 cases each year.

His profile as a class-action litigator, and his fees, have since skyrocketed. As Maryland's lead counsel against the tobacco industry, he signed on for a 25 percent fee -- which turned out to be nearly $1 billion. (The state has since held up payment, arguing that Angelos' take was simply too large.) Angelos has also sued manufacturers of lead paint and the diet drug fen-phen, and is currently representing a man who claims that using a cell phone gave him brain cancer. The suit, which seeks more than $800 million in damages, worries cell phone providers like Motorola and Verizon Wireless. Though similar suits have failed, RCR Wireless News notes that the industry "has never faced a lawyer with the expertise, financial resources, and political firepower of a Peter Angelos."

Angelos, who led a group of investors that purchased the Baltimore Orioles in 1993 for a then-record $173 million, wields considerable financial and political clout at home. When he wants something from state lawmakers, the measures he supports are referred to simply as "Angelos bills." The state assembly gave lawyers like Angelos more time to sue by extending the statute of limitations on asbestos cases; the measure was sponsored by state Senator Norman Stone Jr., who later accepted a position with Angelos' firm. The assembly also created more judgeships to speed asbestos cases along; the bill passed after Angelos brought Orioles' superstar Cal Ripken Jr. for a photo opp with state legislators. "The idea that one person could provide all this major legislation has been amazing," House Minority Leader Robert Flanagan (R) told the Baltimore City Paper.

Angelos has extended his reach to international issues. In 1999, he became the first professional baseball owner to orchestrate a game with Cuba, reportedly securing a State Department waiver for his team's trip to Havana following a White House meeting with then-National Security Advisor Sandy Berger. He also drew the ire of Republicans last May by refusing to sign Cuban defectors to his ball club. Senator Jesse Helms (R.-N.C.), not known for his opposition to discrimination, demanded a federal probe of the Orioles to safeguard the rights of "Cubans who manage to flee the repressive regime of Fidel Castro." Jim Nicholson, chairman of the Republican National Committee, also expressed outrage that Angelos would "turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed by Castro's totalitarian state."

Republicans have other reasons to dislike Angelos. The trial lawyer has denounced GOP efforts to limit jury awards against corporations that harm consumers or workers. "I am opposed to a party which indulges in lawyer-bashing irresponsibly in order to collect campaign contributions from corporations," he has said. During the last election cycle, Angelos and his wife, Georgia, gave all of their donations to Democrats, including like-minded congressional candidates such as Michael Ciresi, one of Minnesota's tobacco lawyers, and Edward O'Brien, a steelworkers union official from Pennsylvania.

Angelos makes no apologies for the controvery his influence generates. "Whenever you do something unconventional, there will be protests and honest disagreements," he told Business Week. "If you're convinced it's the right thing to do, move forward."

-- Pam Smith

111 posted on 03/18/2002 12:11:43 PM PST by nunya bidness
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To: Travis McGee
Not much left in the State of Maryland that hasn't been sold out by your elected and/or appointed officials and their cronies in the private sector.

I wonder why the people's hero, Maryland Attorney General, Joseph Curran Jr. hasn't weighed in on this shooting on behalf of the citizen's of the State of Maryland.

Maybe he is just keeping his mouth shut because the DOJ is crawling all over his buddies,Lynne Battaglia and David B. Mitchell.

112 posted on 03/18/2002 12:13:55 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: nunya bidness,Donald Stone,abundy,maica,freee-dame
I smell a big sellout deal with Angelos involved.

There will be a huge cash payout to Schultz, but no punishment for Braga.

This is how Angelos will get the FBI into his pocket where he keeps the Maryland legislature.

113 posted on 03/18/2002 12:17:21 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Donald Stone
This must be a tough one for Curran, since he viscerally hates all firearms and is on record as wanting to ban them all in time.

But I guess an assault rifle in FBI SWAT hands is okay with him, even if it blows an innocent kid's face off.

114 posted on 03/18/2002 12:19:41 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
Angelos is Harkum's lawyer not Schultz's.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

115 posted on 03/18/2002 12:23:15 PM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Travis McGee
#71-In Colorado we have term limits for all elected officials. It seems that the feds have some resistance from older cops. With term limits, younger, more brainwashed cops, are getting elected sheriff.
116 posted on 03/18/2002 12:24:26 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Travis McGee
Any chance of cleaning house at the FBI and The CIA? Don't hold your breath, I sure as h--- ain't holding mine.
117 posted on 03/18/2002 12:25:02 PM PST by Wagonmaster
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To: Donald Stone
Any skinny on just when the report on the shooting will be issued?

The 12th of Never?

118 posted on 03/18/2002 12:25:43 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: PatrioticAmerican
Without a critical event or series of events, our freedom will just wither away one generation at a time.

But history rarely sails along in straight lines; the unexpected crash-gybe is almost the norm.

119 posted on 03/18/2002 12:28:10 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
As long as you don't forget to duck the main sail!
120 posted on 03/18/2002 12:33:14 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Lloyd227

Now let me see, who should I believe, two kids enjoying a slurpee and not a care in the world, or, Federal Cowboys with hot trigger fingers trying desperately to save their butts?

For some reason I am inclined to believe the kids as they were never willing parties to this sad affair. Grown men, in a supposed professional job and they have to resort to lying to save their own skins.

There were no mistakes made, there was gross arrogance and disregard for human life. This man should be fired and brought up on manslaughter charges, by the state not the Federal government. It will never happen, the jerk will walk.

121 posted on 03/18/2002 12:38:32 PM PST by cynicom
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To: Lloyd227
FBIStapo bump.
122 posted on 03/18/2002 12:41:31 PM PST by SuperLuminal
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To: Kermit
You need to remember that the democraps line is federalize to professionalize. I tend to think it's federalize to U.N.isize. Bush needs to turn the heat up on these fast and loose bunch of cowboy wannabees and fire, no incarcerate them, if this is the best they can do for a a low level petty criminal solution. What a bunch of morons. Spin doctors can only spin, they can't hide the awful truth here.
123 posted on 03/18/2002 12:44:56 PM PST by Issaquahking
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To: Darth Sidious
"...he earned the rank of Star Scout."

Good catch, I wondered if anyone would comment on that. I just copy the news stories and cannot explain the differences in the details.

Very observant of you! Keep watch on all the details !


124 posted on 03/18/2002 12:53:48 PM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
This is our premier investigative agency and they can't do a thing without a snitch. The FBI's vaunted forensic capabilities are useful to them mainly in the manufacturing of evidence for use in their cases which are all made for them by snitches.

This agency needs to be dismantled and its agents barred from further federal employment.

125 posted on 03/18/2002 12:58:18 PM PST by Twodees
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To: cynicom
Agree completely with one exception...... ATTEMPTED manslaughter charges... Thank GOD the kid wasn't killed.

Not this time anyway

126 posted on 03/18/2002 12:58:30 PM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Travis McGee
Obviously the FBI considers itself to be so far above mere peasants that they can shoot them for making "sudden movements".

Or maybe they think it's spelled Pheasants. See movement, pull trigger, bag Pheasant.

127 posted on 03/18/2002 1:05:06 PM PST by Melinator
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To: Twodees
The fingerprint franchise, and related forensic franchises can be placed under the authority of intra-state clearinghouse. While having a number of regional or other basis bonded clearinghouses might seem to introduce overlap and communication ineffectiancies, or privacy issues, by beibg accountable to market forces -- a state or county opting out after a miscue -- their accountability would be higher. Such clearinghouses, coorperatives and intra-agency/state entities already exist for many different purposes from missing persons clearinghouses to buying coops.
128 posted on 03/18/2002 1:08:00 PM PST by bvw
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To: Lloyd227
Star is two levels below Eagle IIRC. After Star is Life Scout, then Eagle.
129 posted on 03/18/2002 1:11:19 PM PST by Twodees
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Comment #130 Removed by Moderator

To: Lloyd227;Travis McGee;nunya bidness
Volume: 1 Number: 294_law June 18, 2001

Report: Justice Department investigating former Maryland U.S. attorney

By The Associated Press

The U.S. Department of Justice is investigating whether federal prosecutors in Maryland destroyed evidence and leaked grand jury testimony to keep alive a misconduct probe against a state trooper, according to a report in Friday’s Washington Times.

The trooper’s brother, meanwhile, accused former Attorney General Janet Reno of delaying the probe to give Gov. Parris Glendening time to appoint former U.S. Attorney for Maryland Lynne A. Battaglia as a judge on the Court of Appeals.

John D. White said his brother, Michael R. White of Mechanicsville, was investigated by Battaglia’s office because he and another trooper pushed for the prosecution of domestic abuse charges against a high-ranking police official with ties to Battaglia.

A Justice Department attorney confirmed the probe in an April letter to Sen. Orrin G. Hatch, R-Utah, who had been chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee until recently. “I believe Reno took over nine months to even respond to my complaint ... to allow Governor Glendening to appoint Lynne Battaglia,” John White told The Washington Times.

The allegations follow an affidavit filed last summer by a federal agent accusing Battaglia of threatening to have him transferred for complying with a congressman’s request for data about her office’s prosecution record.

Battaglia said at the time that she called the agent — Larry Stewart, then the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms special agent in charge for Baltimore — to let him know she was “unhappy.”

A federal jury acquitted Michael White of mail fraud on Dec. 17, 1999, clearing him of charges that he had conducted secret inspections for a salvage operation accused of selling cars rebuilt with stolen parts. State police are still pursuing administrative charges against the trooper, who has been on emergency suspension from police duty since March 12, 1997.

A tape of an interview with Michael White that is now blank is a key part of the investigation.

The trooper claims the blank tape allowed Assistant U.S. Attorney Stuart A. Berman and state police investigator Lt. James Wright to “insert lies within the (report) necessary to support Wright’s perjury to the grand jury and the (trial) jury.”

An administrative hearing before a Maryland State Police panel is scheduled July 16 for Michael White.

Meanwhile, Charles County Circuit Court Judge Christopher C. Henderson ruled May 7 that Maryland State Police Superintendent Col. David Mitchell must show that he and the department didn’t Michael White’s rights by filing charges without probable cause and by not filing the charges through proper channels and on time.

A hearing on that issue is scheduled June 25 in Charles County Circuit Court. Home | Finance | Health Care | TechLink Off The Record | Real Estate | Law | Statewide Copyright © 2000 The Daily Record. All Rights Reserved.

131 posted on 03/18/2002 1:18:59 PM PST by Donald Stone
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Comment #132 Removed by Moderator

To: Lloyd227
In 1913 the Seventeenth Amendment established direct election of Senators by the people.

Since 1913 we have seen unchecked growth in central authority out of Washington, and the 17th admendment is one big feeder root of it. Is there a single senator any more who is responsible to the Constitution, who would hold any Federal agency responsible? Why should they? There is NOTHING in it for them to raise flack over a federal issue. If it is a established agency, it hardly gains them political headway to charge partisanly against that politically neutered bulwark, for no voter long beholds it for a party issue.

The States might check the Federal overgrowth, for the political sake of state politcians. But we no longer have even that check, and those who favored the 17th when ratified made their case that a state's legislative votes were more easily bought than the general electorate. The Oil Senators from oil states, the Coal Senators from Coal States, etc. At least they did represent their true state interests, and not just that of the beltway class.

The cancer-like over growth of Federal power has followed on that experiment -- it is a failed one, and needs repeal like was done with the 1919's sad 18th amendment, thankfully repealed in 1933's 21st amendment.

We think of FDR has the founder of the current federal socialism, that is not true -- the founding was in 1913 and therabout. FDR packed the Court, and finalized the socialist takeover, but it was the "progressive" tempers of the 1910s that set it all up.

133 posted on 03/18/2002 1:33:09 PM PST by bvw
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To: harpseal, Travis McGee
I was telling this story to a few people at the station. They all did the same thing, looked down, shook their heads and said "typical FBI." A couple said "well, look what they did at Ruby Ridge."

If I had done the same thing, I would imagine I would have already been indicted by the Grand Jury.

The good agents are the ones who will suffer on the LE side. Especially if there is no accountability. These things can't be covered up.

134 posted on 03/18/2002 1:36:43 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Travis McGee; sneakypete; Yarddog
I am familiar with the aluminum tubing concept of course I would never ever construct such a device as it might be considered an illegal sound suppressor. I have a bad back these days and my knees are shot buT I can still keep them in the 10 ring on a 50 foot NRA slow fire pistol target at 75 feet rapid fire. i know of at least one local FBI agent who is one of the local best who can not do as well and I know of a Secret Service agent who although pretty good drawing his 9mm and double tapping at 25 feet can not quite do at 25 feet what I can do at fifty.

Always remeber Old age and treachery is often a match for youth and energy.

Stay well - stay safe- stay armed - Yorktown

135 posted on 03/18/2002 1:41:16 PM PST by harpseal
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Comment #136 Removed by Moderator

To: harpseal
Oh, and speaking of not getting medical attention not soon enough, one of our guys got charged and went to trial for not decontaminating a guy he sprayed with pepper spray fast enough. He was found not guilty at the trial and got his job back.
137 posted on 03/18/2002 1:45:22 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I had overlooked him shooting through the car glass, thanks.
138 posted on 03/18/2002 1:54:35 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: Cap'n Crunch; Travis McGee
The good agents are the ones who will suffer on the LE side. Especially if there is no accountability. These things can't be covered up.

Sadly you are correct. The damage to the public confidence in the FBI caused by this is so great that I am not certain they can recover. The reality is all law enforcement must rely on public cooperation and there are two ways to get that cooperatiion intimidation or public respect. Shooting innocent kids does away the earned respect side of the coin so that leaves them intimidation.

On another thread an agent said to a former agent investigating "You are either with us or against us." Well that about sums it up. how is the typical state or local LEO going to react to a Febbie when they see one them walk on this one. They already have a rep as being arrogant sob's who try to grab the glory without doing the work. The perception of them being an arbitray secret police force that exists to wreck havoc on American citizens is already there. The perception that they may be dropping the ball on national security is already there. Hey somebody in a position to exercise authority ought to at least have the B*lls to say bad Fibbie no donut. Instead this will ikely be used to gain a political club over a large part of the agency by Angelos and we shall pay a subsequent price nationally.

On another thread you pointed out that even local LEO's are facing some major anti-gun pressures combined with unaccountable federal police this does not bode well for our Republic. I only hope Travis gets out his book before it is a historical novel.

Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

139 posted on 03/18/2002 2:03:50 PM PST by harpseal
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Regarding your guy who went to trial over not deconatamninating a pepper gas subject. If he had not gone to trial I will bet a hundred donuts that the Fibbies would have been all over your department like stink on sh*t.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

140 posted on 03/18/2002 2:12:31 PM PST by harpseal
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To: Melinator
"Pheasants" LOL! Sort of like trap and skeet: "PULL!"
141 posted on 03/18/2002 2:19:36 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: harpseal
I note that a significant part of my book involves fed up local LEOs doing an "after hours" op in POVs against the STU base.
142 posted on 03/18/2002 2:22:57 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: fogarty
It sounds to me that Christopher Barga was an Affirmative Action hire employed to fulfill The FBI's quota for Idiot-Americans!
143 posted on 03/18/2002 2:23:41 PM PST by albee
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To: Lloyd227
I hope the author isn't trying to downplay the fact that this young man has earned Eagle Scout: something that's very tough to earn. It's a TREMENDOUS investment of time and effort, and it's only gotten harder in recent years.

But, some boys keep at it. Worth noting: an entire patrol of my troop - seven boys total - recently earned their Eagle. That's 35% of the troop, where nationally it's maybe 2-5% of all Boy Scouts go on to earn Eagle.

I like to believe that that indicates something: the pendulum is swinging back. The dreks at the FBI - and their power-mad handlers - have nothing on the generation that will supplant them in the coming decades.

144 posted on 03/18/2002 2:28:43 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: harpseal
If I remember correctly they made a civil rights violation charge against him and the local FBI did come in for awhile but I can't recall what they did. This was back in 95 or 96 when I had an injury that took me off the road, so my focus was on re-hab.

This will probably sound tin foil hattish but I believe we will continue to lose our rights and slide to tyranny because of our moral decline. It's just hard to tell if we'll go out with a whimper or have another civil war.

I'm thinking war.

145 posted on 03/18/2002 2:40:18 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Travis McGee
I know quite a few that are fed up LOL.
146 posted on 03/18/2002 2:43:10 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I don't think the nation has been this dangerously split since 1860.
147 posted on 03/18/2002 4:18:52 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Darth Sidious
You are underestimating the potentcy of Federal bureaucracy, my boy. Go and check out the Norman Mineta thread -- the Feebs are growing mightly this year, and many a good scout will be lost to a culture of no account gold-brickers.
148 posted on 03/18/2002 4:23:07 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
Yep, I agree. The FBI has never really been about law enforcement. They are a domestic intelligence agency, which is the same thing that the Gestapo and the Tontons Macoutes were: secret police. A republic such as ours doesn't require such an agency and in fact is put in danger by its existence.
149 posted on 03/18/2002 4:50:56 PM PST by Twodees
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To: bvw
Such changes were always sold as necessities. I remember being taught in jr. high school that the Civil Service Act was passed to end the spoils system. That's an odd thing to call the flushing out of bureaucrats at the end of a presidential administration. Ending the spoils system benefitted the political class by establishing a permanent segment of that class in DC to insure continuity for the less assuredly permanent positions of career politicians holding elective office.

The Civil Service Act should be repealed along with the 14th through 17th amendments. Of course, IMO, the list of what is ripe for repeal would probably be nearly impossible for me to complete in the time left to me.

150 posted on 03/18/2002 5:03:41 PM PST by Twodees
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