Sing Sing guard gets year in jail for killing 5 kittens

News Radio 88 ^ | 3/22/02

[Nowhere Man]

Like it or not a car has more value than a kitten. You can walk down almost any street in summer and find someone giving away free kittens. Very rarely would you find someone giving away free cars.

Well, value depends on what an individual puts on things. Myself, my 9 cats are infinitely valuable, I'd do anything for them, they are family to me. True perhaps you cannot put in a monetary value on a kitten/cat/pet, but there is more to things than monetary value. Heck, my mother and I spent close to $1000 taking care of a kidney infection for a 14 year old Burmese cat. We had one opinion that she would die in a month or two. That was January 4th and Muffin is still running around and doing well.

[John O]

If you have to ask the question, you prove my point.

For clarification for those interested:
A kitten is a living, breathing, feeling, but spiritless, piece of property
A shovel is a non-living spiritless, piece of property

Now, since they are both property why should it matter how one disposes of them.

Try to not just condemn me for being 'unfeeling' or whatever. Explain to me why an excess kitten and an excess shovel need to be treated differently.

As has been stated before on this thread (by others), there is no biblical edict (other than to be good stewards and rules for sacrifice) regarding animals. Also there is nothing in the Constitution giving special protections to animals. There are special protections given to people in regards to their own property however.

GSA(P)

[John O]

Well, value depends on what an individual puts on things. Myself, my 9 cats are infinitely valuable, I'd do anything for them, they are family to me

This is true. Back when we had our cats (turns out that the baby is allergic so we had to find new homes for them all) we spent more on them than on ourselves.

The problem arises though that the fair market value of a cat isn't a whole lot (with rare exceptions).

GSA(P)

[mutchdutch]

"Most prison guards are a step above felons"

have you been to a prison? Have you interacted with prison employees? Most (not all) are decent individuals like you and me doing a job that has some shitty aspects to it at times.

MY POINT WAS THAT WE DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFO ABOUT THE PARTICULAR SITUATION

I am not in favor of killing kittens in a crusher either. It was common practice on the farm to put them in a gunny sack and throw them in the river (I never had to do this) Which is more humane, I don't know.

I want to know what was the guiding principle and situation was in that guards decision and trust that the judge gave local justice. Only Gods justice is perfect.

[stands2reason]

I expected that you were, actually. I'm not saying all Christians are cruel, just that those people who are and have no respect for God's creation tend to call themselves Christians.

[Williams]

Will the cats sue for reparations? I don't think anyone should mistreat animals, but sentencing someone to a year in jail over this is absurd and wrong. The worst case was when they charged a WWII veteran grandfather in NJ for killing a rat that was escaping from a rat trap. Cute cat picture.

[Williams]

Also, aren't a zillion kittens "put to sleep" every year if no one wants them after a few weeks? But this guy gets a year in jail and his life ruined. I think a fine, community service, reprimand on his record, would all be more appropriate.

[areafiftyone]

Will the cats sue for reparations?

YES THEY WILL - THEY WANT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MEOW MIX FOR YEARS OF SHOVING HALLUCINOGENIC KATNIP UP THEIR NOSES. We have been drugging these cats for decades!!! Okay maybe not - but how can a man just stand there while 5 kittens are being crushed to death? How cold can he be? Maybe I am just a sucker for a cute animal. Maybe a year is too much but he should spend at least a month and think about what he did.

[John O]

I expected that you were, actually. I'm not saying all Christians are cruel, just that those people who are and have no respect for God's creation tend to call themselves Christians.

Three points here. (1)Where did I say that I was cruel and (2)where did I say that I have no respect for God's creation? [(3) Why the slam on Christians? and what does that have to do with either excess kittens or personal property rights?]

The humane society puts down hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands?) of animals a year. They have a huge program encouraging the spaying and neutering of pets to prevent unwanted litters. Why? because these litters will have to be put down (by somebody eventually).

Here we have a case of a man putting down a litter of excess kittens (that he presumably owned). Death is death. There is no humane way to kill. Is it more cruel to kill and excess animal or to let that animal live a life a sickness and disease out on the streets. I think killing the excess kittens was the humane thing to do in this case.

The farms and livestock producers in this country kill hundreds of thousands of animals a year, some are shot, some are bled to death, some are decapitated. It's all the same, death is death. There is no humane way to kill.

I have the greatest respect for God's creations (because I respect God and His commands not because anything in creation is worthy of respect) That's why I try to be a good steward.

Is it better stewardship to eliminate th excess litter or let them grow and reproduce more litters that must be killed later? I think it's better to get it over with now in the quickest manner.

Animals are property. It is up to the owner to decide how to be the best steward of his property.

GSA(P)

[John O]

but how can a man just stand there while 5 kittens are being crushed to death? How cold can he be? Maybe I am just a sucker for a cute animal. Maybe a year is too much but he should spend at least a month and think about what he did.

Ever have to put an animal down? (I have) You do think about what you've down (or caused to happen). No way to avoid it. But you also have to do what's right regardless of how unpleasant it could be.

The 'warm and cuddly animals are always right' crowd paints this guy as a slavering ghoul laughing at the deaths of these little defenseless creatures. How do we know that he didn't see this as the only way (or most humane way) to get rid of the excess kittens and cried the whole time it was happening? I hated having to put our cats down (several over several years, FIP etc) but it was the best thing I could do for them.

GSA(P)

[areafiftyone]

Ever have to put an animal down?

I personally didn't have to do it. But I had to take my dog to the Vet to have it put to sleep. I still feel horrible about it and it was about 13 years ago. My best friend kept me occupied for the whole day so I wouldn't watch the clock. I am still sickened by that day. But I can be pathetic when it comes to animals. But thats just me.

[stands2reason]

Ye, there is a difference between, say, gassing kittens and crushing them to death. Which would you prefer, if you had the choice between the two ways to die? By your own words, it shouldn't matter, they are equally "humane."

[Nowhere Man]

The 'warm and cuddly animals are always right' crowd paints this guy as a slavering ghoul laughing at the deaths of these little defenseless creatures. How do we know that he didn't see this as the only way (or most humane way) to get rid of the excess kittens and cried the whole time it was happening? I hated having to put our cats down (several over several years, FIP etc) but it was the best thing I could do for them.

Well, he could have taken them to a shelter, preferrable a no kill one or ask around to see if anybody wanted the kittens. There are many ways to resolve this than having the poor little ones crushed. I know that life can be hard whether you are a person or an animal, but still that is no reason to kill in a cruel manner. I always remember that the Great Buddha said, "All life is suffering" but we learn from it. OK, maybe I'm close to a "1970's era New Ager" in my beliefs. B-)

This would have been one case where I wished the prisoner throttled the guard although myself, hopefully he will be somebody's "bunk love mate," knowhutimean? I think at some point, his karma will catch up to him.

Yes, I use animal products, but I think the animals that are used are put down as humanely as possible, I hope. I'm not an animal rights person, but more of an "Animal Welfare" person. I think the American Indians did have an interesting outlook on animals to where they would pray to the souls/spirits of the creatures they use and thank them.

We might be getting a little off topic, but I really do feel animals do have spirits and souls and we need to respect them and treat them as well as we can.

[John O]

We might be getting a little off topic, but I really do feel animals do have spirits and souls and we need to respect them and treat them as well as we can.

Animals do not have spirits. Once they are dead they are dead. There is no 'immortal' part to an animal. They do have souls (defined as mind will and emotions) but those souls cease to exist when they die. Man is the only earthly being with a spirit. All the rest is just property.

Even shelters kill animals. Lots and lots of them. He was just saving the shelter some money by disposing of his property himself.

GSA(P)

[Nowhere Man]

I don't know about that. I remember when one of my cats, Cricket passed away, I swear I did have a few encounters with her spirit. One time, I felt her on me while in bed and even petted her until she got up, ran under the bed and that was it. This was a few months after she passed away. I still miss her a lot, but it really put me at ease knowing that she can be nearby at times and perhaps one day I'll be with her. I really do believe they have souls/spirits and so forth.

When it comes to spirituality, I think there is a lot more to it than even the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Bagivad Gita, the teachings of Buddha, Confucious, various American Indian faiths, 1970's era New Age beliefs, "UFO religions," can explain. I just think if you take one or two, you still miss the whole picture. I see it as being all pieces of a different puzzle that makes up the power of the Cosmos we inhabit. Usually, I'm a conservative/libertarian guy militarily, pro-NRA, economically, and such, but being an observer of history I came to this conclusion when it comes to metaphysics. Yes, I'm a big Art Bell listener too. B-)

I just think there is one big huge puzzle that makes up a lot of this stuff and there are many on Earth who only see and believe a small fraction of what is out there. I don't know if we will ever understand or find the truth until we move from this plane to the next.

I sometimes do say I'm an agnostic, I have my material side too that needs to see, touch, feel, hear, and measure and size up before I take things verbatim, but I do realze that there is another world besides the material out there but I cannot quite put my grasp on it. I guess I have to say I'm a Deist, there is a Great Power in the Universe that created it but it is up to each of us to find our own way on our own terms as the case may be and it is up to us to succeed or fail in life and then when we pass away, our karma will determine what is next.

Getting back to creatures, yes, I still stand by the fact they have spirits or souls. A soul is "life energy," cannot be created or destroyed as many physicists will tell you. I seem to lean towards the belief that the soul/spirit is electromagentic energy, much like a radio signal, but a lot more since it is consciousness and memories as well.

So getting back to animals, I know Cricket and my other pets will be waiting for me at "The Rainbow Bridge" when it is my time to join them.

There is a website for it called rainbowsbridge.com/hello.htm