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Bill to require fetal pain notice defeated [abortion]
www.azcentral.com ^ | March 22, 2002 13:55:00 | Associated Press

Posted on 03/23/2002 9:02:56 AM PST by miltonim

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:20:51 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

A proposal to force doctors to tell women their fetuses may experience pain during an abortion was defeated by the House Retirement and Government Operations Committee.

The proposal was included in an amendment that replaced provisions of a bill (HB2225) making technical corrections to the state's retirement system. It failed on a 4-4 vote.


(Excerpt) Read more at azcentral.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: abortion; anesthesia; prolife
THESE LEGISLATORS ARE HEARTLESS. THESE PEOPLE WERE NOT PRESENT WHEN GOD WAS GIVING OUT HEARTS.
1 posted on 03/23/2002 9:02:57 AM PST by miltonim
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To: miltonim
They will have to answer one day for their crimes against humanity. The American Holocaust.
2 posted on 03/23/2002 9:09:00 AM PST by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
amen, there are militant radical barbarians among us. talk about moral decline, i wish every ill available upon these murderers. i suppose its not for me to judge, their day will come.
3 posted on 03/23/2002 9:12:49 AM PST by nocommies
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To: nocommies
who are the 4 in opposition? im sick of these things being determined quietly "IN COMMITTE." hell with committees, get the bastards, every one of them, to put their names on things like this. just like dashole in the senate keeping pickering, etc, from a vote.
4 posted on 03/23/2002 9:14:33 AM PST by nocommies
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To: nocommies
I would prefer their day come sooner rather than later but it's not my call.
5 posted on 03/23/2002 9:20:46 AM PST by wardaddy
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To: miltonim
If brain development is the issue, we have the go ahead to exterminate all of the democrats in the country, and most of the republicans is congress.
6 posted on 03/23/2002 9:27:08 AM PST by watchin
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To: wardaddy; nocommies
Information on fetal pain by Dr. and Mrs. J.C. Willke:
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp
7 posted on 03/23/2002 9:29:47 AM PST by miltonim
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To: miltonim
With all due respect to Dr. Fishburne, I've read studies that indicate the fetus is capable of feeling pain within the first few weeks after conception. My understanding is that cardiac and neuro development occur early and in tandem. We know absolutely in the second trimester that babies feel pain because they sometimes run away to the opposite end of the womb during ultrasound. They don't like the sound waves.

There was a time not too long ago that the medical community believed that newborns did not feel pain. Today we know how wrong that is.

8 posted on 03/23/2002 9:37:18 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: miltonim
was defeated by the House Retirement and Government Operations Committee.

WTF?!

FMCDH!

9 posted on 03/23/2002 9:38:40 AM PST by nothingnew
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To: miltonim;wardaddy;nocommies
Even more information on fetal mental development as related to pain and stimuli. This site is fairly extensive, covering a large range of fetal issues. 10 weeks seems to be the youngest theoretical age for pain reception and perception as stated by the site. This particular page deals mostly with that.

-The Hajman-
10 posted on 03/23/2002 9:40:08 AM PST by Hajman
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To: goldenstategirl
You might be interested in the site I gave in Post #10 above.

-The Hajman-
11 posted on 03/23/2002 9:41:48 AM PST by Hajman
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To: Hajman
Thanks. I'll check it out. The heavy duty academic books are packed away around here and not easily accessible.

One more thing I wanted to add. It seems that with medical research exposing more truths every day, like the connection with breast cancer and now that fetuses do feel pain, I think the pro-abortion movement and its financial beneficiaries are getting freaked out. The facts are becoming a significant threat to their profit and platform for power. If the truth gets out they lose big time.

12 posted on 03/23/2002 9:57:03 AM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: goldenstategirl
If the truth gets out they lose big time.

One thing I've learned about the Pro-Abortion movement and such. They've never let the truth stop them before..

-The Hajman-
13 posted on 03/23/2002 10:14:02 AM PST by Hajman
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To: Hajman
Whether these young lives feel pain or not is not relevant to me but it's a decent attempt to chip away at the baby killing industry. I mean...I regret the pain they feel even more but it really makes little difference philosphically. My stance is based on the killing of an innocent life period. Little lives in the womb we ought to be protecting.
14 posted on 03/23/2002 11:20:56 AM PST by wardaddy
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To: nothingnew
This bill was originally introduced in the Health committee but was "held" in committee. Then it was introduced as an amendment to a different bill in the House Retirement and Government Operations Committee.
The text of the bill is as follows:
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/legtext/45leg/2r/bills/hb2217p.htm

PLEASE NOTE: In most BUT NOT ALL instances, the page and line numbering of bills on this web site correspond to the page and line numbering of the official printed version of the bills.


 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ¦                                    REFERENCE TITLE: abortion; fetal pain; notification  ¦
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ¦                                                                                       ¦
 ¦                                                                                       ¦
 ¦                                                                                       ¦
 ¦                                                                                       ¦
 ¦ State of Arizona                                                                      ¦
 ¦ House of Representatives                                                              ¦
 ¦ Forty-fifth Legislature                                                               ¦
 ¦ Second Regular Session                                                                ¦
 ¦ 2002                                                                                  ¦
 ¦                                                                                       ¦
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ¦                                       HB 2217                                         ¦
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ¦                                    Introduced by                                      ¦
 ¦  Representatives Brimhall, Pearce, Johnson, Laughter, Pierce, Anderson: Carpenter,    ¦
 ¦             Cooley, Farnsworth, Foster, Graf, Gray, Hatch-Miller, Robson              ¦
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

AN ACT

AMENDING TITLE 36, CHAPTER 20, ARTICLE 1, ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES, BY ADDING SECTION 36-2153; RELATING TO ABORTION.

(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)

Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Title 36, chapter 20, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 36-2153, to read:

36-2153. Fetal pain; notification; unprofessional conduct; violation; classification; definition

A. BEFORE PERFORMING OR INDUCING AN ABORTION, THE PHYSICIAN WHO IS TO PERFORM THE ABORTION SHALL VERBALLY INFORM THE WOMAN THAT THE ABORTION WILL SUBJECT THE CHILD TO FETAL PAIN AND ASK THE WOMAN IF SHE WISHES THE PHYSICIAN TO ANESTHETIZE THE CHILD TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE.

B. BEFORE THE ABORTION, THE WOMAN MUST CERTIFY IN WRITING THAT THE PHYSICIAN PROVIDED THIS INFORMATION.

C. A PHYSICIAN WHO VIOLATES THIS SECTION COMMITS AN ACT OF UNPROFESSIONAL CONDUCT AND IS SUBJECT TO LICENSE SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION PURSUANT TO TITLE 32, CHAPTER 13 OR 17.

D. A PHYSICIAN WHO PERFORMS OR INDUCES AN ABORTION WITHOUT FIRST PROVIDING THE INFORMATION REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A CLASS 3 MISDEMEANOR.

E. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "ABORTION" MEANS THE USE OF ANY MEANS TO TERMINATE THE CLINICALLY DIAGNOSABLE PREGNANCY OF A WOMAN WITH KNOWLEDGE THAT THE TERMINATION BY THOSE MEANS WILL, WITH REASONABLE LIKELIHOOD, CAUSE THE DEATH OF THE UNBORN CHILD. ABORTION DOES NOT MEAN THE USE OF AN INTRAUTERINE DEVICE OR BIRTH CONTROL PILL TO INHIBIT OR PREVENT OVULATION, FERTILIZATION OR THE IMPLANTATION OF A FERTILIZED OVUM WITHIN THE UTERUS.

15 posted on 03/23/2002 11:36:41 AM PST by miltonim
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To: nocommies
All I know is that Republican State Representative Debra Brimhall was one of the sponsors of the fetal pain bill.
The members of the House Retirement and Government Operations Committee are here:
16 posted on 03/23/2002 12:04:03 PM PST by miltonim
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To: goldenstategirl
Babies trying to escape kind of gives it away, right? I knew that babies often tried to evade abortion instruments, but I didn't know that about ultrasound.
17 posted on 03/23/2002 12:20:35 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: goldenstategirl
Excerpts from : "http://www.birthpsychology.com/lifebefore/fetalsense.html" The Fetal Senses By David B. Chamberlain, Ph.D.

Touch, the first sense, is the cornerstone of human experience and communication, beginning in the womb (Montagu, 1978)......

Just before 8 weeks gestational age (g.a.), the first sensitivity to touch manifests in a set of protective movements to avoid a mere hair stroke on the cheek. From this early date, experiments with a hair stroke on various parts of the embryonic body show that skin sensitivity quickly extends to the genital area (10 weeks), palms (11 weeks), and soles (12 weeks). These areas of first sensitivity are the ones which will have the greatest number and variety of sensory receptors in adults. By 17 weeks, all parts of the abdomen and buttocks are sensitive. Skin is marvellously complex, containing a hundred varieties of cells which seem especially sensitive to heat, cold, pressure and pain. By 32 weeks, nearly every part of the body is sensitive to the same light stroke of a single hair......

When prenates experience pain, they do not have the air necessary to make sound, but they do respond with vigorous body and breathing movements as well as hormonal rushes. Within ten minutes of needling a fetus's intrahapatic vein for a transfusion, a fetus shows a 590% rise in beta endorphin and a 183% rise in cortosol--chemical evidence of pain (Giannakoulopoulos, 1994)..........

Babies have been known to react to the experience of amniocentesis (usually done around 16 weeks g.a.) by shrinking away from the needle, or, if a needle nicks them, they may turn and attack it. Mothers and doctors who have watched this under ultrasound have been unnerved. Following amniocentesis, heart rates gyrate. Some babies remain motionless, and their breathing motions may not return to normal for several days...

18 posted on 03/23/2002 12:52:19 PM PST by miltonim
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To: nickcarraway
Pretty sad isn't it? It paints an ugly picture.
19 posted on 03/23/2002 4:25:35 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: miltonim
Great link! How'd you find it? I was going to mention the field of prenatal psychology but your link says it even better.

One of the studies I read found babies at birth recognized music played to them in utero and maternal and paternal voices. It might be one of the studies cited in the link. I can't remember for sure where I read it. Interesting.

20 posted on 03/23/2002 4:33:03 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: miltonim
The brain in a fetus is not developed enough to feel pain until about 26 weeks of gestation, he wrote in a letter to the committee.

Dr Fishburn is a liar, an ideologue, a charlatan or some perverse combination of all three.

21 posted on 03/23/2002 4:42:20 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: miltonim
Fetal Pain, who, what and when
22 posted on 03/23/2002 4:45:07 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: goldenstategirl
I'm fascinated by how you said the baby will run to the other side of the womb. One doesn't even think of the womb being that big. It's so amazing the baby will react to something that is entering the womb. Especially since that's supposed to be the saftest place.
23 posted on 03/23/2002 8:43:37 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
Check out that link at the top of post #18. I was very impressed.
24 posted on 03/23/2002 9:12:03 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: goldenstategirl
That is so amazing. What do babies dream about?
25 posted on 03/23/2002 11:25:15 PM PST by nickcarraway
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