No Justice For Fathers: Where Every Day Is Mother's Day

The Courier Times ^ | April 7, 2002 | Anthony Mariani

[BigWaveBetty]

So if attornies here on FR see some of the complaints as whines, we're wrong? We are the ones most ideologically disposed to sympathize with those complaints and try to rectify issues - those of us who have been around a while have heard just about every story and have seen every bit of bad behavior, and do a pretty good job of sorting the BS from the whole mess. And this guy was whining.

Thank you OPH, I wish I had gone to law school just so I could articulate my thoughts into such succintint manner.

[BigWaveBetty]

You make my point for me. Nobody believes that a guy is current on his obligations if his wages get garnished. The law may enlighten a few in the accounting department of the employer. But the perception of "deadbeat" is conveyed to the others in the chain of command when the different style and size paycheck passes hands to the eventual recipient. BTW, I confined my remarks to a flawed system not a flawed gender. I suggest that you recognize this and refrain from trying to create a false impression.

Did you give that suggestion to others on this thread who used flawed gender as opposed to a flawed system? Didn't think so. Are you so jaded that you can't see this article about is greedy women with Family Court problems thrown in just to make it respectable?

I don't know how thing are run now, but men probably were perceived as deadbeats once they were turned over to Child Support Enforcement, since back then the State (I live in) didn't automatically garnish wages from the beginning of the divorce. The spouse entitled to the support had to report the non-paying spouse to the State, and I had to provide a financial statment.

I don't create false impressions sir, I just call them as I see them. I might suggest you refrain from trying to cram me into your little pigeon hole.

[RGSpincich]

I just call them as I see them.

A regular Howard Cosell, you are.

[Tickle Me Pank]

In Texas, the Family Code requires a payroll deduction from a child support payor's check, unless there is a compelling reason (e.g., self-employment) not to do so.

That's been the law of the land for some years now (~10-12??), so there's no real stigma attached to it.

RGSpincich:

Nobody believes that a guy is current on his obligations if his wages get garnished.

[RGSpincich]

I'm talking about the real live situation not something you percieve from your law office. When the different style check is delivered, and it usually is on a different timetable and not included with the other paychecks, the recipient is singled out and questioned by those not so knowledgable of the law. You may see it everyday but people out in the work force are not so familiar with wages being attached. The low level manager who just hands out checks and makes work schedules does not get exposed to this on a regular basis. There is a stigma attached at the sales floor (or work station ) level and you are just kidding yourself if you think differently.

[Tickle Me Pank]

What 'different style check'? The payroll department should mail (or electronically transmit) the amount withheld directly to the court.

I can't imagine why it would evr be seen 'on the floor' or 'in a cube'.

[RGSpincich]

Many companies issue a different style paycheck to the employee. It's usually a different color and size. The explanation is that a payroll company or department usually handles the ungarnished checks and the accounting department of the employeer must seperatly handle the garnished employee's situation. It many times is hand typed or written and not computer generated.

People's lives are an open book in a sales or cubicle setting. Or any other setting where somebody knows something about the other guy. There is no privacy.

[Tickle Me Pank]

If that's the case, your problem should be with a payroll department that does a lousy job of maintaining confidentiallity, not the concept of wage garnishment (in Texas, it's actually an FOC check, but it amounts to the same thing).

[Tickle Me Pank]

The accounting dept should be more aware of the confidential nature of things, as well.

[RGSpincich]

The check issuing is just one part of the problem. At the DA level there are many more snags. I've outlined some earlier but I have to get to the job now.

[Harrison Bergeron]

"So if attornies here on FR see some of the complaints as whines, we're wrong?"

It's been my anecdotal observation here on FR that attorneys tend to view any grievances aired by men in divorce and custody issues as "whiners," while dragging out the battered woman and "deadbeat dad" stereotypes to make their point. The funny thing is, the lawyers who do this the most tend to be the ones to proclaim loudest to defend their male divorce clients as vigorously as their female clients.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Find yourself a counselor. I came here to discuss government abuse, not your personal problems.

[RobRoy]

Evidently you have never been divorced with a custody issue, have you? The article is true in the whole nation, not just the author's location.

I can't speak for others, but from personal experience I can say this guy hit the nail squarely on the head.

[mom is sad again]

That is not so!!! I'm a non custodial mom who is in the shoes of this father. My ex has acted exacly of what your saying about custody moms. It's not just custodial mothers who act like this in court, it's also custodial fathers who act like a @&%*! with the non custodial mom.

[mom is sad again]

I'm so happy for you!!! I wish I can get custody of my son. But Az state won't interfere with Ca, law, so I'm confused about the system, even though the crime took place in Az, but it was file in Ca. Both states that I had ask for help had given me the run around that it's not there jurisdiction or They can't interfere. But I'm glad to know about you'r case.

[lilmamma18]

Hello, I am a mother of 3. One of my children has been in my home with my husband and myself for her whole life! My husband and his family ADORE her! They are all emotionally in pain because they do not have legal rights to her. My daughters father thinks the same way that you do. He thinks that even though his days are filled hanging out with his friends and coming and going at his own leisure, that because he pays child support, every visitation should be scheduled around his work schedule, or at his convenience, and thats when he decides to call or show up. He believes that $300 a month is way to much to pay to support a child, and he thinks that his only responsibility should be to pick her up for a few hours whenever he wants, and drop her back off. And as long as he pays his child support, he thinks that this is being an honorable father. I realize your situation is slightly different because you have a new family, but here is the "reality" of it all. I have 3 children, not 1! If I could get him to take his daughter to an activity, I would, and it would not be using him as a taxi, because that is his child!!! Do you consider it unfair that she has to take your child to doctor visits, or extra carricular activities, or even to drop off her book bag if she forgets it? Did you ever think about the fact that its your obligation as a father to interact with her life instead of just having "her and you" time? Mothers are on a constant "being involved" level of thier childs life, and it wouldnt hurt fathers to be the same way! And as far as the whole schedule conflict goes, I am dealing with that right now with my ex! He thinks that he shouldnt have to take my daughter on weekend days because he got a new job and neglected to tell them that Saturdays were his visitation days. Well, the father is in no way OBLIGATED to visit the child, so that all in itsself makes it difficult when he neglects to show up, and now that he wants his schedule changed, he expects me to rearrange all 3 of my childrens lives, not to mention mine and my husbands, just because he cant make her a priority for 1 day a week?!?!? C'mon now, I do this for 365 days a year, and he has the nerve to call me and tell me that even though he has no new family, just a new girlfriend, and he cancels most visitation days because he "doesnt have time" and he claims he is working too much, yet when we go to get reevaluated for child support, his taxes show that he only worked 16 hours a week last year, so his support gets lowered, and when and if he actually calls, he wants me to disrupt my whole housholds schedule, once again, because he refuses to put his visitation with her as a priority! You know us moms have enough to worry about trying to raise these children and make sure they get shots on time, and a bath every day, and fed every meal, and enough exercize, but not too much TV, and making it to drill team practice on time, and having conferences with teachers and trying to keep these fathers updated on thier childrens wellbeing because they just cant find the time in thier schedule to make it to the drill team compitetion or conference, or doctors appointments to find out for themselves. Should we really be responsible for your visitation schedule too? Is it really your opinion that a fathers only job is to visit once in a while and pay child support, because if you want to talk about one sided, how about the fact that since visitation is not "forced" on the fathers, the mother never knows when she can make plans, or plan family vacations, or getaways with her husband without the kids, and she is stuck explaining to her kids that pressing thier noses to the window isnt going to make thier daddy come any quicker, and that not all daddys have the time to spend with them like her step daddy does, even though he works a job 7 days a week and goes to collage by night. How about that for unfair. I take my kids to drill team, i talk to thier teachers at least weekly, I plan extravagant birthday parties, and go out of my way daily to make sure that they are healthy, happy, and they mind thier manners. I get sheer joy out of that all in itsself. These are my children, and my passion in life is for them. so really, how much does it hurt for you to be involved in thier extra carricular activities and to know how thier life is going, and to be able to participate in things with them. Isnt that really quality time? It is for me. It really disturbs me when I hear men whining about the few things that they have to do as a father when us single mother happily base our entire lives around our children without complaint. You should be helping out with rides, and before you accept a job, you should make it clear to you employer that you have a visitation schedule that you need to honor in order to maintain a relationship with your child (that is if it is important to you to maintain a relationship with your child) Jobs are used to working with people. Why is it so hard for you to be the one to compermise? Is it not enough that we raise your children while you go about your merry way, but now we have to make sure that we rearrange our entire family's life because you arent responsible enough to mention that you have a schedule with your child once in a while that you need to follow? You cant just jump in and expect people to say "sure, I will ruin our plans so that you can come on thursday instead". I am sorry, but you are wrong about this! Paying child support and visiting once in a while isnt all it takes to bring you out of the "deadbeat dad" catagory.

[dancusa]

A father is not allowed to claim his children on his income tax.

This is false, I alternate years with my ex.