No Justice For Fathers: Where Every Day Is Mother's Day

The Courier Times ^ | April 7, 2002 | Anthony Mariani

[Tickle Me Pank]

Have no plans to return to the bench, I did my stint and it's helped my practice immensly.

[The Giant Apricots]

"...how many women do you personally know that make more money than you?

None. And few other men. :0)

However, I have no problem with proportionality; for example: Jack and Jill divorce. Their incomes combined are $400,000. Jack makes $240,000, or 60%; Jill makes $160,000, or 40%. Thus, major expenses, such as medical, dental, and tuition are paid by each on a proportional basis, per percentages such as the above. So, given, as an example, a tuition bill at a nice private elementary school of $15,000 each for 3 kids, we have a bill of $45, 000. The division of liability would be $27,000 and $18,000 respectively. Now that's fair, rather than just saying that because the father makes more, he pays for the whole kit-n-kaboodle.

I agree splitting up the family does horrible harm to the kids, as my daughter knows well. You're idea of joint residential custody should be the norm, with parenting plans based upon how much time each parent actually has to spend, is a good idea, but how realistic is it? Children need stability, moving them every other week or month or day isn't so great either.

The question is, what is worse for the children: spending time in two homes, per maximum availability of each parent, or having less time to spend with each parent than they would have in such a joint-residential situation?

Men do hold the power, they can make the choice when they want to become parents, every time.

Most procreative relations are mutually consensual.

[The Giant Apricots]

Do you argue custody cases before former colleagues? Also, did you receive as a family court judge training specific to child custody and domestic violence respectively? If so, what was the nature and scope of that training? Are you a guy?

[Harrison Bergeron]

" <>i>So please gentlemen quit yer bitchin' and realize there are just as many women who are in the no justice boat."

"So, why the interest in shutting down the conversation?"

Wait until the divorce lawyers show up, especially the lady lawyers who bend over backwards, rhetorically speaking, to explain how they fight just as hard for their male clients as their female clients. They'll try to explain to you as rationally as possible that you're just trying to create a bogus victim class. And when that doesn't work, they'll accuse you of being a deadbeat dad or wife beater.

[Harrison Bergeron]

"Men who choose marriage should be prepared to take on quite a task, such as marriage is. "

Blanket statements blaming men for all marital woes and calamities is about what we expect when we try to air Family Court and Child Support issues in the open. We expect it just a bit less, however, in conservative forums where personal responsiblility is a cherished value and government interference in the family is considered the worst form of tyranny.

Thanks for your oh so enlightened input.

[buccaneer81]

Whoa, Valerie. This is the first post of yours I've disagreed with. There are reasons some men feel the way they do. Am I angry? You bet. In my case, my wife had an affair with a guy at work, decided she just wanted a new life, took my son, is shacked up with the BF and I'm paying her $950 a month. How's that for justice? I'm fighting for custody, but my experience so far is that the courts don't give a damn about the father's situation. I'm going to lose my house, my credit rating and half my salary to an immoral tramp who I thought I knew for twelve years. She and the BF can take my cash, take my son to Disney World for a week on my dime, and at the age of five, he doesn't understand why I can't afford to take him to King's Island for a day. Am I angry? Yup. Pass the cheese.

[ValerieUSA]

My experience is as a wife who stayed with a husband through a lengthy illness, taking care of our four kids and him, (and then the kids by myself after he died) doing the "obey" thing all the time even when he made decisions that I didn't agree with. I did exactly what the husbands expect of their wives, and got left with no insurance, no home, no help with the kids, and no support beyond Social Security survivors benefits (for which I am thankful).
I am now in the fifth year of being a widowed mom, and all this time I read about marriages breaking up, children being being used as weapons in divorce, courts not being fair to second families, cheating, drug abuse, financial ruin and I've run out of pity. We all have to live with our choice of mate and the vows we make - and the consequences if we don't choose well.
No one learns anything helpful from whining and blaming - especially the kids. There has to be a better way - a manly way - to have a positive influence in a bad situation.

[Tickle Me Pank]

1) - yes, it cannot always be avoided (nor need it be), but I rarely end up in court. Mediations, which are required under the TFC, usually take care of all but the largest property settlement cases. It's rare that we go to court with custody issues outstanding, except for perhaps the length of an agreement for the custodial parent to remain in the state.

2) & 3) - child custody, certainly, and some in domestic violence (although that's criminal, and not in the jurisdiction of the Family Courts). Training takes the form of week long seminars at the Advanced Family Law Conference each year, usually panels of attorneys / judges with significant expertise in the specific topic of that session.

4) - male.

[Tickle Me Pank]

RE: jailing parents delinquent in child support. The courst are typically loather to jail a parent for, as you say, it interferes with the parent's ability to make their payments. That's why it's generally reserved for total deadbeats who show no sign of making the payments (admittedly, a judgement call).

When incarceration became an option in Texas, it was stunning how much money deadbeats were able to come up with.

Consider the father that's been in the news for fathering 12 kids, and being some ~$40K in arrears in child support, blind, etc. Can anyone argue that jailing this guy would actually prevent payments?

[Tickle Me Pank]

'courts' & 'loathe', of course....

Can't type this AM :)

[Jim Noble]

>>In my experience, it's rare for males to petition for custody of their kids from the outset<<

Competent legal counsel will invariably say the following:

If you petition for custody of your children, you will lose.

After you lose, the "judge" (sic) will be angry with you.

As a result, you will either never see your children again, or, at most, once a week.

Therefore, do not under any circumstances ask for custody from the Family Court. Your only chance for a resonable relationship with your kids is to negotiate with your x2b outside of the system.

Needless to say, your "negotiation" will be facilitated by liberal application of the green enzyme.

[Wm Bach]

If a father remarries and has more children, and should need to get a part-time job to cover all of his expenses...

He deserves to suffer for committing gross serial stupidity.

[Tickle Me Pank]

>>If you petition for custody of your children, you will lose.

After you lose, the "judge" (sic) will be angry with you.<<

That's not been my experience. It's always best to resolve the custody issues in the mediation process. If the parties cannot resolve the custody issue that way, in Texas there will generally be a hearing to resolve it, then the parties go back to mediation to work out visitation.

[tiki]

So what made the difference in the cases where the father got custody.

In an ongoing case with someone I know the children live with their father, he takes them to their mother in the morning and she gets them ready for school and day care and he picks them up, they spend the nights and week-ends with him except some holidays. If they are sick and can't go to daycare or school he takes time off work or takes them to work with him. This is by choice of the mother. He pays the day care and all other expenses except clothes and gifts that the mother buys. Now the court wants to give her main custody, which she wants in writing but not in reality and pay child support.

Would it make a difference if he had a hand written letter from her telling him that she despised her daughter and wished she never had to see her again and that she had never been born and that he could take the daughter if he let her take the son? Should he bring it up or would that make him look bad even though the letter is genuine?

[SarahW]

Without commenting one way or the other on the overall fairness of family courts, I would like to point out that the writer of that letter is dumb as a rock.

He doesn't seem to realize that the specific terms of his divorce settlement govern most the judges rulings he is complaining about.

[Jim Noble]

>>Would it make a difference if he had a hand written letter from her telling him that she despised her daughter and wished she never had to see her again and that she had never been born<<

The only thing that makes a difference is if he pays, pays, pays.

No one cares-especially mothers-if the children live with their father.

As long as the father pays the mother as if they live with her.

[redhead]

serious bumpage here from the mom of a young dad who's been mauled by his bloodthirst ex and left for dead.

[redhead]

"In Contra Costa County, California, every new child support order is given to the DA for enforcement. The first thing that they do is attach wages and file judgments. This happens even if the father is current or ahead on his support payments. The judgments are reported by credit agencies and the "points" are affected when the credit is reviewed. Escrows are delayed and interest rates affected because of the errors made by DA personel when contacted by title companies concerning the judgments. The father's employeer is forced to maintain a seperate account for the payment of the child support. The notation is made in the father's personel file. His job advancement is impeded because of the perception of some who will believe that he must have tried to avoid supprting his children or they would not have garnished his wages. Employeers simply don't believe that the county would do that for no reason."

You have this exactly correct. My son lives in Corona CA, and his custody battle has been just as you described here. It is very frustrating not to be able to help him in any way. More money for him? Better job? That would only result in bigger child support payments. Care and feeding of his new family are secondary to satisfying the demands of the courts. He is trapped. He has shared (40/60) custody of the child, but is still being forced to pay child support, even though his ex makes more than ten times his income.

[redhead]

"Let me ask a question to all of you. If you were considering getting married and having a family - would you still in light of all this?"

Yes. There is a component to this dilemma that has not been mentioned, and that is the long courtship. I'm not saying that whirlwind courtships don't EVER work, because it's obvious that many do. But this legal climate should give couples much pause before they lock themselves into a contract that is bound to be broken (generally after the children have arrived, unfortunately). It should not be a matter of whether or not to marry, but one of whether or not to marry HASTILY.